Whats your favorite subjob for RDM? What is your least favorite?

Don't include any subjobs that you don't actually play in your least favorite. That is cheating.


My favorite is /DRK. I get TP for nuking and actual WSs to use it with. Stun and Absorb-TP are nice against harder Mobs. Last Resort and Other Absorbs are also fun. I can land Dark Magic on most mobs. I can proc all dark yellows that aren't BLU or BRD, I can proc 5 Red procs.


My least favorite is /WHM. You get 1 job trait and 1 job ability. Auto REGEN and Divine seal every 10 minutes. There are 2 more job abilities at level 40, but WHM doesn't like to share. So besides curing status affects, which i'm more than happy to /WHM for if I know about it ahead of time, I don't get what the big deal is.

Easier would just be to list pros of each sub.

• Warrior
  Provoke, Berserk, Defender, Warcry, Aggressor, Defense Bonus, Double Attack (10%), Attack Bonus, Fencer. Additional access to Sword and Club weapon skills.
• White Mage
  Divine Seal, Auto-Regen, complete access to -na spells, Reraise, Barspellras, Teleports, Banishga, Flash, and eventually Repose. Increased access to Club weapon skills.
• Monk
  Boost, Dodge, Focus, Chakra, Chi Blast, Martial Arts IV, Subtle Blow II, Counter, Max HP Boost II. Guard skill.
• Black Mage
  Elemental Seal. Drain, Aspir, Warp, Warp II, Stun, Escape, Tractor, Sleepga, Elemental Debuffs, low level AOE nukes.
• Thief
  Steal, Sneak Attack, Flee, Trick Attack, Mug, Hide, Gilfinder, Evasion Bonus II, Treasure Hunter II.
• Red Mage
  ~ Um... Yeah.
• Paladin
  Holy Circle, Shield Bash, Sentinel, Cover, Undead Killer, Shield Mastery, Defense Bonus II, Auto Refresh. Flash. Increased access to Sword and Club weapon skills.
• Dark Knight
  Arcane Circle, Last Resort, Weapon Bash, Souleater, Arcana Killer, Attack Bonus II, Occult Acumen, Stalwart Soul, Drain, Aspir, Absorb-Spells, Absorb-TP, Stun, Tractor. Increased access to Sword and Club weapon skills.
• Beastmaster
  Charm, Gauge, Reward, Tame, Vermin Killer, Bird Killer, Amorph Killer, Lizard Killer, Wide Scan III. Pet Commands: Fight, Heel, Stay, Sic, Leave.
• Bard
  Songs, notably Threnodies, Carols, Lullabies, Magic Finally, Mages Ballad, Advancing March, and Battlefield Elegy.
• Ranger
  Sharpshot, Scavenge, Camouflage, Barrage, Shadowbind, Alertness, Rapid Shot, Accuracy Bonus II, Wide Scan IV. Access to Archery and Marksmenship weapon skills.
• Samurai
  Warding Circle, Third Eye, Hasso, Meditate, Seigan, Sekkanoki, Zanshin, Store TP II, Demon Killer. Increased access to Club weapon skills.
• Ninja
  Stealth, Dual Wield III, Subtle Blow III. Tonko, Monomi, Dokumori: Ichi, Jubaku: Ichi, Kurayami: Ni, Hojo: Ichi (and soon Hojo: Ni), Ninja Wheel, Utsusemi.
• Dragoon
  Ancient Circle, Jump, High Jump, Attack Bonus, Dragon Killer, Accuracy Bonus. Wyvern Targe/Earring latent effects.
• Summoner
  Auto Refresh, Max MP Boost II. Summons. Blood Pacts including Sleepga, Nightmare, and soon, Hastega and Noctoshield.
• Blue Mage
  Burst Affinity, Chain Affinity. Blue Magic such as Metallic Body, Cocoon, Foot Kick, Smite of Rage, Blank Gaze, and many others and soon Jettatura. Increased access to Sword and Club weapon skills.
• Corsair
  Phantom Roll (one roll, half potency), Double-Up, Quick Draw, Rapid Shot. Phantom Rolls, such as Evoker's Role. Access to Marksmanship weapon skills.
• Puppetmaster
  Activate, Repair, Martial Arts, Evasion Bonus II. Puppet. Guard Skill. Pet Commands: Deploy, Deactivate, Retrieve, Maneuvers.
• Dancer
  Accuracy Bonus, Dual Wield II, Evasion Bonus II, Subtle Blow II, Skillchain Bonus, Aspir Samba, Drain Samba II, Haste Samba, Divine Waltz, Healing Waltz, Curing Waltz I, II, III, Spectral Jig, Quickstep, Box Step, Stutter Step, Animated Flourish, Desperate Flourish, Violent Flourish, Reverse Flourish.
• Scholar
  Light Arts, Dark Arts, Sublimation, Max MP Boost. Stratagems: Penury, Addendum: White, Celerity, Accession, Parsimony, Alacrity, Addendum: Black, Manifestation. Drain, Aspir, Reraise, most -na spells (but not Stona), Sandstorm, Rainstorm, Windstorm, Klimaform, Firestorm and soon, Hailstorm. Light/Dark Arts increase skills, most notably Dark Magic and Elemental Magic.

Every one of these are useful for Red Mage, considering how adaptable the job is, although some have much harder times finding a useful situation. Dark Knight, Paladin, White Mage, Black Mage, Scholar, Ninja, Dancer, and Blue Mage are probably the most useful (no particular order), with many other jobs having strong niches too. If I had to rate one as the least useful for Red Mage, I'd probably have to go with Dragoon, but I'm sure someone could prove me wrong on that somehow.

I only point out that you can't use any Marksmanship Weapon skills because RDMs don't have access to any Marksmanship Weapons. This in turn stops you from being able to Quick Draw your own Enfeebles, IE Slow/Para/Blind 3 and Dia/Bio 4 with /COR. I would RDM/COR if they offered this.

My fav for frontline roles is /nin and /dnc /nin when solo or shadows are required and /dnc for when I'm filling support role.

my fav for backline roles would be /sch... but I still need to level it ._.;;

my least fav is /whm cause lolpinkmage and it dosent offer much that sch dosent. but until i get off my rear and level sch its all i have.

I also like /rng just for fun as well as /blu.

Favorite is /NIN for overall use, /DNC for situational support use.

Then /DRK for when Stun is needed, I can use absorb spells along with LR/SE for the final zerg push on the NM.

Then either /SCH for full on support, or /BLM for full on support with stun.

/WAR used to be great but currently DW crush's S+Shield and /DRK provides much of /WAR with added bonus's of dark magic.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ManaKing

I only point out that you can't use any Marksmanship Weapon skills because RDMs don't have access to any Marksmanship Weapons.

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Sorry about the mistake, I was making a fairly long list and Corsair was near the end... well that and it is one of the less common ones, probably for the reasons you mentioned. Not having access to Marksmenship kinda sucks... maybe we'll see an event all jobs Gun/Bullet combo for an event if SE is feeling generous - can anyone think of one of the seasonal events where hunting would be encouraged? Maybe we can petition SE for this.

Ill put my hat in for /drk and /nin as favorite subs, prolly drk a bit more till we get some native ws access. As for least favorite, it shouldnt be considered a sub because i cant think of real reasons to use it but /pup, i have gotten light use out of it for healing support but its such a generally unhelpful sub to me that i cant find any regular use for it.

Least favorite is no contest, White Mage. Of all the things you can end up doing on Red Mage my least favorite is baby-sitting status effects. I tend to miss some even with my chat filters set up properly, especially when they come from TP moves and don't show up in the log. It's a very unrewarding task and being asked to come /WHM inevitably means that's what I'll be spending a lot of my time doing.

Favorite subjob is a little trickier to pick. I love Black Mage for its access to Stun, but I think I'd have to pick Scholar. It's my go-to sub for anything that doesn't require more stuns. A lot of the time I'll have to bounce between a few different roles over the course of a night and it isn't really feasible to run back to the mog house every time that happens. For switching roles on the fly Scholar is pretty decent. It's a solid boost to our offensive game but it doesn't cut us off from -na spells should we suddenly need them(barring Stona of course). Really though, it's all about Sandstorm + Desert Boots since I lack access to Go Faster Pants.

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Originally Posted by Crimson_Slasher

Ill put my hat in for /drk and /nin as favorite subs, prolly drk a bit more till we get some native ws access. As for least favorite, it shouldnt be considered a sub because i cant think of real reasons to use it but /pup, i have gotten light use out of it for healing support but its such a generally unhelpful sub to me that i cant find any regular use for it.

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Yeah /NIN takes a nosedive without Almace. Death Blossum was ~ok~ at 75, not since then the game has moved on and DB just doesn't scale well. Definitely must use Evisceration but dagger's are limited, you basically have Twilight and the DMG42 "Resist" dagger.

Favorite back at 75 was either War (campaign only) or Sch/Drk depending on what I was doing. I like doing Stun and if I could get in range, weapon bash for hilarity's sake.

At 95 I would say favorite is either Sch or Nin (if meleeing).

My least favorite is Whm, since bar Stona it feels pretty redundant now.

Personally, I'd really like to see some RDM/MNK running around taking advantage of that awesome Martial Arts IV trait and Guard Skill. With any luck, they might actually be able to hit EPs with their D:crap weapons. Seriously, was this a for cereals mention here? Rdm/MNK?

It's all fine and good to talk about the theoretical advantages of some of those subs, but the vast majority would never work in practice.

RDM/BRD would be fundamentally incapable of landing any of those debuffs, and would only be able to use one gimped song at a time. Advancing March with 133~ish Singing skill and no instrument is not even 5% Haste, and that's literally all you would get from your subjob.

RDM/PUP, again you bring up guard skill and Martial Arts traits like they matter at all. Rdm has no native H2H skill, and thus no attack, no accuracy, and no base weapon damage for H2H weapons. Melee'ing with h2h as a 95RDM/47PUP is the equivalent of throwing a lv47 PUP at your target without the level correction penalties. Any pets you summon will be woefully outmatched, and essentially useless aside from Activate > Heal > Deactivate spamming, and only then if you're lucky enough for them not to take any AoE damage during their active time which would reset their Activate timer.

RDM/COR with one basic roll at half potency. I'm not even sure what this is supposed to accomplish. Evoker's would probably be the only thing worth using at half potency, and even then without the party bonus you're unlikely to ever get more than 1 MP/tic back from it. Is giving up your subjob for +5-10 accuracy from Hunter's Roll, or +3-8% attack from Chaos roll a good deal? As mentioned earlier, quick draw is out and there are no low level Marksmanship WS worth using at all anyways.

The vast majority of the subs you mention completely ignore the very real effect of combat skill gimping. Yeah, I could go sub MNK on my White Mage, but that wouldn't make it a martial artist capable of attacking with its bare fists. Yeah, even if RDM could equip a Crossbow, having access to low-tier Marksmanship WS doesn't do anything because they will never actually land (or land for more than 0 damage).

Heck, with even Ninja sub, you only really needed to mention DW3 and Utsusemi. Ninjutsu's level 47 cap is nowhere near sufficient to land enfeebles on anything you'd be fighting at level 95, and even then Red Mage natively gets those same enfeebles anyways.

This game has been out for over 8 years. I thought people got over the fact that you can't just sub any job on any main and actually garner a tangible benefit from it ages ago.

I almost exclusively use RDM/SCH. RDM/NIN if I feel like I need it, though I only do this while solo.

RDM/NIN is definitely more then DWIII and Utsusemi. The NI line of spells are -30 magic resistance and have the same resist rate as Dia. That has proven to be extremely helpful in landing full potency paralyze / slows.

That's about equal to a HQ staff. Who knows what Klima is though.

rdm/mnk does have some select uses, not for hand to hand or guard (though raging fists on rdm on waaaaay too weak mobs is fun) Ive personally made use of counterstance, chakra, focus, and dodge a bit in abyssea on rdm, just tooling around, and the hp isnt too bad, either i might add! But id still not use it unless i had some theory to test.

I'm sorry I was just listing a vanilla post about all the possibilities rather then what they mean, but I wasn't trying to say how everything was useful. I'm not about to get into a pointless arguement about which is the most useful sub, but to point out some things you missed on two of the jobs - I'm sure I could (but I won't) point out stuff on the other jobs that was missed - if it actually mattered.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Personally, I'd really like to see some RDM/MNK running around taking advantage of that awesome Martial Arts IV trait and Guard Skill. With any luck, they might actually be able to hit EPs with their D:crap weapons. Seriously, was this a for cereals mention here? Rdm/MNK?

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Counter and Abyssea. Maybe there are more viable solo choices, but this is a working combo.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Heck, with even Ninja sub, you only really needed to mention DW3 and Utsusemi. Ninjutsu's level 47 cap is nowhere near sufficient to land enfeebles on anything you'd be fighting at level 95, and even then Red Mage natively gets those same enfeebles anyways.

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Ninjutsu enfeebles are amazingly useful. The resist from low skill only affects damage but even that is mitigated by magic accuracy and magic attack bonus gear.

Not every sub is going to be useful, but considering how many are, it shows how rounded out Red Mage can be.

Ninjutsu enfeebles with floored accuracy are more useful than full Red Mage potency enfeebles?

Magic Accuracy affects the potency of RDM debuffs on anything that isn't immune to enfeebles?

Kay.

Rdm/Mnk is a decent enough tooling around sub, same as Whm/Mnk. I'm just baffled by the fact that you would list Martial Arts and Guard in there as if they mean anything at all. That list was woefully misleading. Just because a Rdm/Smn can call Garuda doesn't mean it can actually DD with it, etc.

Lol I thought I was the only RDM/DRK anymore. LR is such a nice buff, if you remember to keep it up. Doesn't make up for DW, but nothing does, so w/e.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

That list was woefully misleading.

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I'm not sorry that listing everything subs do could somehow be in some deceptive way be twisted to be remotely in the smallest tiniest most absurd way to be misleading. The only thing "wrong" about the list is Corsair Marksmenship bit - which I admitted was something I overlooked.

On mentioning Ninjustsu enfeebles, I meant the debuff aspect of the Ninja wheel. Technically my statement was still correct, which is the best kind of correct. :p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Ninjutsu enfeebles with floored accuracy are more useful than full Red Mage potency enfeebles?

Magic Accuracy affects the potency of RDM debuffs on anything that isn't immune to enfeebles?

Kay.

Rdm/Mnk is a decent enough tooling around sub, same as Whm/Mnk. I'm just baffled by the fact that you would list Martial Arts and Guard in there as if they mean anything at all. That list was woefully misleading. Just because a Rdm/Smn can call Garuda doesn't mean it can actually DD with it, etc.

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Enfeebles suck period.

Magic Accuracy effects the potency of your C- nukes, especially as RDM/NIN isn't going to be using HQ staves.
Ex.

Suiton: Ni
QM JA
Thunder IV
Thunder IV

Quote:

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Originally Posted by saevel

Enfeebles suck period.

Magic Accuracy effects the potency of your C- nukes, especially as RDM/NIN isn't going to be using HQ staves.
Ex.

Suiton: Ni
QM JA
Thunder IV
Thunder IV

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Nah. They'll be using Magian staves if they're worth half a crap.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Nah. They'll be using Magian staves if they're worth half a crap.

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They wouldn't be /nin if they used Staves...

Shouldn't be meleeing mobs where macc matters imo.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Daniel_Hatcher

They wouldn't be /nin if they used Staves...

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You keep telling yourself that.

You demons with you staves. Can't a guy enjoy his swords in peace? JK play however makes you feel happy. RDM isnt being taken seriously yet anyways.

I disagree. Seriously.

I melee many monster where M.acc matters, although that tends to be on nukes rather then enfeebles.

Contrary to popular belief, monsters do not level up, gain +100 TP, or rage whenever a RDM pulls their weapons out.

Nor is your sword suddenly relevant.

Swords on rdm are like opinions, most people dont like to hear people have them. But even if you ignore it, its still gonna be there. So why not have people with good ones. A good sword is more liked, and so is a good opinion, be constructive.

Swords are like opinions.

Great fun to toy around with by yourself or with a close friend or two.

Horribly inappropriate to whip out in a room full of people, no matter how "good" it is.

Really is there no sanctuary on the RDM forums, this conversation is so tired and boring.

Oh yeah! No this will never get old. No one seems to realize the obvious.

Some people play RDM with swords. Some people play RDM with Staves. Saying which way you prefer it isn't going to change the fact that they other group exists and since SE has no actual intention of quelling either party with fire and brimstone, it will always be that way.

Magian Staffs: Check
Magian Swords: Check

Effectiveness of a RDM pretending they are a BLM/WHM: Inferior
Effectiveness of a RDM pretending they are a DD: Inferior

Fun factor on playing with a Staff or a Sword: Completely Based on Opinion

So if you don't realize there is another way to play your job out there and that other people like it, then you just don't notice the obvious.

It's a discussion on subjobs, some are mage orientated some are melee orientated. Can't have this discussion without the melee side being represented. And seeing as SE has not only said no, but "HELL NO" to the pink magers, you won't see RDM go back to "staff onry" ever again.

And just for sh!ts and giggles.

http://i537.photobucket.com/albums/f...debrannCDC.png

Its' not being a "DD", if I was only going to melee then I'd come on my WAR, BLU, SAM or DRK. It's a combination of supporting, enfeebling and doing damage when applicable. That and your incredibly difficult to kill. I do in equal measures

Dia III
Refresh II (on healers)
Cure IV (lots of Cure IV)
Various enfeebles, Slow II / Para II / Addle / Poison II.
Smacking Monster with sword
Spamming CDC
Checking Procs (depending on event and as directed).

I find myself incredibly busy, and it's an insanely fun play-style.

lol, RDM/NIN is a melee-oriented subjob.

Kay.

Nice max damage full temp item screenshots, though. They're totally relevant. Here, I can post one too:

http://images.bluegartr.com/bucket/g...59426e9204.jpg

I average about 8.2-9.1k on NMs, but I only WS them when I have all temp items and buffs up (tm)

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post218815

(letters)

Plenty of people can justify Staff only, because that is how they want to play. I personally don't touch the things and I never really have. I'd rather build a Macc Dark Sword or keep working on my Murgleis. There is some validity to the potency of staffs for those that want to increase their nuking damage, but it will completely nullify your ability to WS or melee at all.

SE didn't say people couldn't be Pink Mages, they just said that a WHM will blatantly outclass them, because that is their job and they are well equipped to do so. The bigger issue is that RDMs don't have a well defined role because SE made Enfeebling a joke.

My honest opinion on the matter is that any RDM, regardless of play style, should be up in arms about the current state of enfeebling and they should be up in arms together. It doesn't matter what your play style for RDM is currently, you should have figured out by now that you can't make a RDM good anymore because they broke our most important function: Enfeebling.

I don't care if you use a sword or a staff, you aren't as good as any other job in the game because neither of those are going to make up for the fact that we aren't better nukers, healers, or melee'ers than any job that actually specializes in those things. If you hadn't noticed, you can only do 1 think at a time. So after you are done checking how immune the mob is to your enfeebles, you can attempt to validify your existence in a serious party by half ass-ing any one of those 3 things. Since you don't have the job abilities, job traits, equipment, or spell library to compete with other jobs, you are going to come up short.

Stop fighting about your differences and start getting offended that your common ground is barren. There is no actual reason that RDM should be in the state that it is in. It's still a good job and a fun job, but it's not a particularly well equipped to be taken seriously in the current game. Who cares how hard you Nuke or WS? That is secondary stuff. Crippling your adversaries and defending your allies should be your first concern. How you achieve that is up to you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ManaKing

If you hadn't noticed, you can only do 1 think at a time.

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http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_NQ6dP9_4MM...ut-verbose.jpg

1 Thing at a time?

nonono, Good people can multi-task.

Greatguardian...did you just show a post of a mob in abyssea and compared it to a voidwatch mob? Really? You tried to disprove him and went into the sandbox zone to do it? Im sorry but to me that just lost you all credability and exposed your "I GET THE LAST WORD AND WANT TO MAKE YOU LOOK BAD SO I CAN WIN" attitude.

Not to mention thats 3 different ws and even if with max buff/temps is still a nice output.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Crimson_Slasher

Greatguardian...did you just show a post of a mob in abyssea and compared it to a voidwatch mob? Really? You tried to disprove him and went into the sandbox zone to do it? Im sorry but to me that just lost you all credability and exposed your "I GET THE LAST WORD AND WANT TO MAKE YOU LOOK BAD SO I CAN WIN" attitude.

Not to mention thats 3 different ws and even if with max buff/temps is still a nice output.

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You missed my post about why his screenshot was meaningless.

No i didnt Neisan, im just more appauled great guardian would use that kinda comparison. It holds no water in my book.