It's the Little Things

I can't speak for all summoners but I'd be ecstatic if SE would just:

A) Let me Rest with Avatar out
B) Increase AoE Range of Avatars Favor and/or add secondary effects (like after a certain amount of time Titans DEF aura also mitigates physical dmg, Or Slows the Enemy)
C) Allow My Summons to SC again
D) Make Astral Flow Cost Less MP and Not Wear off As Soon as I use Odin/Alex
E) Not make me sub whm to use !!proc ws.

I get sad every time i see se make a big announcement for smn.. then they addd something thats supposed to bee awesome for smn... then it end up being gross/rarely useful. Also if they really expect me to do 8 elemental trials thats a shame... takes forever just to do 1

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zemarin

I can't speak for all summoners but I'd be ecstatic if SE would just:

A) Let me Rest with Avatar out
B) Increase AoE Range of Avatars Favor and/or add secondary effects (like after a certain amount of time Titans DEF aura also mitigates physical dmg, Or Slows the Enemy)
C) Allow My Summons to SC again
D) Make Astral Flow Cost Less MP and Not Wear off As Soon as I use Odin/Alex
E) Not make me sub whm to use !!proc ws.

I get sad every time i see se make a big announcement for smn.. then they addd something thats supposed to bee awesome for smn... then it end up being gross/rarely useful. Also if they really expect me to do 8 elemental trials thats a shame... takes forever just to do 1

---

Honestly above any of these things, I'd prefer a fix to BP delay system, an increase in ward potency to make them more relevant, and an adjustment to Avatar melee strikes(so they can do more than tickle anything above an EM between Blood Pacts), in that order. Although I do like D), none of this stuff would be game changing, or overly useful for Summoner at this stage.

Don't get me wrong I'm not against these changes, if we got any of them down the line I'd be happy enough, but the job needs some big fixes before we can start worrying about the little stuff.

The staves are a pain but are worth trudging through the paths to get.

Everything the both of you suggest would be loved, even if it aren't of them. Only thing I don't to much particularly agree with is lowering MP cost for astral flow. We do have various means of mp gain, but allowing us to keep our astral flow enabled after using Odin and Alexander would be nice. I hate to compare to two new 2hr abilities SCH have but... talk about increasing longevity of Embrava alone warrants a double take at astral flow only avatars.

Eh Idc if I can Regain MP after Astral Flow... what is the point of Astral Flow being a 2hr then if after it its going to leave you 100% defenseless. Convert and Slow Elemental Siphon is not enough... The only really potentially 2hr worth Avatar is Alexander

All Other Avatars do is BLM ja dmg every min while Astral Flow is up; that is not a Gift from the heavens.

They could remove the mp cost, remove bloodpact Timers during 2hr, or Allow me to use Odin/Alex more then once.

Idc how they do it or which they choose, Astral Flow as a 2hr is plain whack. When Odin Misses and steals my 3k~ mp that's a waste of my time. That Actually puts summoner under Cosair's 2hr cause Smn 2hr has the potential to do ABSOLUTLELY NOTHING for 3k~ mp, Astral Flow Makes OverDrive look good.

You should never find yourself in a situation where you should encounter any danger or aggro and not have any method to restore MP immediately after using an astral flow ability or summon.

Only real justifiable adjustment needed astral flow blood pacts is the damage calculations. Odin needs an accuracy adjustment, though there's no real situation to use him in that you just can't use Diabolos' astral flow blood pact for, like behemoth mobs.

And... I don't really agree with using Odin or Alexander more than once in the 3 minutes of the same astral flow. In most cases, trying to summon something like Alexander haphazardly in a middle of a brawl when he's actually needed (AV or PW for example) you find yourself screwed when Alexander gets interrupted and desummon without using perfect Defense cause of getting hit with an AoE. Not to mention you only need 900mp to be effective on perfect defense to be effective. Currently only 190 MP minimum to use any astral flow blood pact, as amount of MP used doesn't actually affect damage.

It goes without saying though, most jobs right now have little to no use of their two hours. Considering how pointless Astral Flow is currently, until there is some adjustments to the abilities themselves, there's no point to do anything to it and just save Astral Flow for Alexander when needed..

I alll honesty I much just rather Astral Flow Not cost me any mp... it's pretty fine the way it is cept for that one aspect.

Alot Of Jobs have useful 2hrs. BLM SCH PLD THF SAM BLU have very epiclly good 2hrs WHM RDM DNC Tho very situational can actually Save lives, BRD 2hr lasting 3 mins + songs lasting long amount of tide turning.

You can disagree all you want but the facts are SMN's 2hr blows, that's not to say others don't but this minor Adjustment to Astral Flow could keep me from Second Guessing whether or not to use it, Odin is only good as an alpha strike, Alex is the only useful one out of the bunch and even still the fact you need almost 90% of ur mp to waste on him and he only lasts 90s don't make him all that he could be. All he really does is allow melee to like dd without fear for a whole 45~s, yes its good it gets it credit but its to be expected seeing how he turns you useless after using it.

The Potentially doing nothing Line doesn't only Refer to ODIN either. 3 Resisted Diamond Dusts is potentially N0 dmg , a missed Zantestuken or resisted one is low dmg for high mp, Alex only somewhat useful when NMs at critical HP unless u do nothing or are in Abyssea u will not have the full mp for full duration on top of that have to hope u dont get decapitated before getting it off.

I swear I think Alex is the only thing smn has to bring to the table... wel that and shock squall

You're basically saying things a lot of us already know. I beg the differ on other two hours as generally they're ALL situational unless inside abyssea where you happen to be spamming Mighty Strikes on full cleaving, SCH in exp parties or whatever for their new two hour magic Embrava.

No one else is using their 2hrs so casually, if even at all at all and saving them for specific bosses that can't beat without them otherwise. SMN included. A lot of those jobs you mention aren't touching their 2hr job abilities at all lately and more than likely be ridiculed for it. Maybe I'm speaking out of bias of personal experience, but MP is can be replenished. There's no reason to use Astral Flow inside abyssea where you'd have this 3k. Outside when there's a realistically 1.7k - 2k MP pool for SMN, there is to many ways to refresh that "wasted" MP. My tool is the underrated Hvergelmir if I'm able to gain TP before it's needed (and generally am outside of doing BCNMs).

we need our 2hr fixed cause on summoner i have about 1500 mp yet when i use astral flow all the mp is gone for only 2k dmg on a enemy with over 15-20k hp wow what's the deal with that cause when your losing all your MP for weak or a BP that might get resisted or flat out MISS ( happened to me with Dia.s 2hr BP Resisted for only 2 dmg) it should be changed to HALF your MP and not EVERYTHING >.< the effects of astral flow is to Allows avatars to use their full strength and how is that possible when the BP get resisted so your losing all your MP for a BP that might get resisted and then like someone said up above your left defenceless cause when a summoner is left with 0 MP how can they survive when their only Pet is killed and once when astral flow wears your MP is gone faster then "Candy set in front of a kid"

Quote:

---

No one else is using their 2hrs so casually

---

What relevance does this have to do with a 2hr ability? How can you claim no one use their 2hr abilities as if you know everyone? I use my 2hr as i see fit, may that be once every 4hrs, once a day, or once every 2hrs.

Quote:

---

. I beg the differ on other two hours as generally they're ALL situational

---

Technically everything in the game is situational. Cause I mean benediction is kinda useless to use on whm with full hp and mp on a pt with full hp. Also Invincible not to useful on casting mobs, and Perfect Dodge useless without any sort of hate. Just like provoke is usless to a Squishy job like rng or blm, and surely no drg will make much use of soul eater. JA's are situational regarless of their recast same as spells, and many other things in the game.

Quote:

---

saving them for specific bosses that can't beat without them otherwise. SMN included

---

Nothing in abyssea needs smn 2hr and im pretty sure most things outside of it dont need it either, the whole point iof a 2hr is to generally save you from a bad situation so how would one do this when A) You BP can miss or be resisted and B) You lose 2-3kmp?

Your Resolve:

Quote:

---

My tool is the underrated Hvergelmir

---

Ok cause you have the emp staff magically all smns *supposedly* have it just to make their 2hr not ridiculously stupid? How about Se just fixes the mp cost and not give us a single, yet asinine, reason to make that staff?

I'm appauld I'm even having this discussion. Your argument against it isn't even valid, I'm not outright desiring for Astral Flow to be a superior 2hr. It should not be a determent to the smn, No other 2hr cost the job anything EXCEPT ranger in which it costs the price of one arrow/bullet/bolt... WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. 2hrs are good at helping take on hard things yes summoners 2hr's mp drain doesn't help much at all if even, unless initially all the ppl fighting along the smn sucks. Then your point becomes valid

Lastly;
Who has the precognition to know exactly when it would be good to use alex, and have a 90%~ish full mp bar at that point unless they do nothing before hand?
Smn's 2hr is not good enough to be costing them a crap load of mp, that is all imma say.. I'm done with it. If you think it is awesome, thats fine, but I'm pretty sure most summoners will agree that it isn't.

Christ... this will be my third time typing this cause Chrome wants to be stupid. x_x Here goes one last time.

Quote:

---

What relevance does this have to do with a 2hr ability?

---

Did you bother to read the last statement of first paragraph before you hand picked that quote?

Quote:

---

Technically everything in the game is situational.

---

Pardon my French but... no shit.

Quote:

---

Nothing in abyssea needs smn 2hr and im pretty sure most things outside of it dont need it either, the whole point iof a 2hr is to generally save you from a bad situation so how would one do this when A) You BP can miss or be resisted and B) You lose 2-3kmp?

---

Is there an echo in here?
Side note, not all 2hr abilities are meant to "save you" from a bad situation, but to give you an upper hand. Astral Flow is NOT an ability you'd use to save yourself if you some how attract to much aggro from normal mobs or from NMs that may spawn in the area. If you happen to find yourself that unlucky, you're pretty much screwed to begin with. But if that's your choice, sure. There are revitalizers that you can utilize in abyssea or besieged if it's going on.

Quote:

---

Your Resolve:

---

Before moving on, this got a giggle out of me. If MP management is such a concern here, it's a logical choice to go for hvergelmir. My sole purpose for having one IS for MP management when I'm subbing WHM. I have it, I find use for it, especially in the emp weapon or gfto mentality of people lately. Though I understand not every SMN have time or think they can justify getting one, which is okay. SMN have many ways to get moderate amounts of MP back. Elemental Siphon natively. Refresh, aspir, and convert if subbing /rdm. Sublimination if subbing /sch. Even Spirit Taker if they're feeling froggy and have the TP. Or... just use hi-elixirs and ethers.

Still it comes down to a single issue. If you're worried about MP management where it's actually dictating your next move as a smn, then you're clearly doing something wrong and need to go the right equipment because there's no reason for any smn to have to worry about it anymore. Especially if you're making it your main job.

let's continue

Quote:

---

Ok cause you have the emp staff magically all smns *supposedly* have it just to make their 2hr not ridiculously stupid? How about Se just fixes the mp cost and not give us a single, yet asinine, reason to make that staff?

---

No, but what I, as well as others, been advocating and suggesting is a general damage adjustment to all blood pacts, astral flow included; in favor of what you suggest. Is that so much horrible? What good would come out of just reducing the mp cost of using astral flow blood pacts if they still suck?

Quote:

---

I'm appauld I'm even having this discussion. Your argument against it isn't even valid, I'm not outright desiring for Astral Flow to be a superior 2hr.

---

How exactly is it invalid. I'm a smn. I use my astral flow abilities when needed. I know from experience that it's easy to recover from the MP lost with more than enough time to pop off another one on regular avatars or have mp back just as soon as using Alexander or Odin so I can send in another avatar with enough MP for Blood Pacts that matter, without the use of Myrkr. (Generally have natural refresh with all avatars now due to equipment, "eliminating" perpetuation cost.)

Quote:

---

It should not be a determent to the smn

---

And yet it's not if you're properly geared and know what you're doing, as is with pretty much EVERY job when it comes to performing your task.

Quote:

---

2hrs are good at helping take on hard things yes summoners 2hr's mp drain doesn't help much at all if even, unless initially all the ppl fighting along the smn sucks. Then your point becomes valid

---

No, it doesn't. You shouldn't be playing with people who suck. I don't.

Quote:

---

Lastly;
Who has the precognition to know exactly when it would be good to use alex, and have a 90%~ish full mp bar at that point unless they do nothing before hand?

---

Wiki, BG, forums, FFXIAH, generally the community at large that's actually informed and any SMN who knows their role... Any one who actually takes the time to looks for advice on taking on specific NMs can set up a zerg strategy based on Alexander. It isn't hard and it doesn't take a genius or a psychic. You generally KNOW that you're going to use Alexander and should have 900mp ready for preemptive buffs before engaging the target.

Quote:

---

If you think it is awesome, thats fine, but I'm pretty sure most summoners will agree that it isn't.

---

And there you have it, we don't all think alike. Don't be surprised that I don't agree with your suggestion, being main smn for several years now.

Quote:

---

And there you have it, we don't all think alike. Don't be surprised that I don't agree with your suggestion, being main smn for several years now.

---

See Comments like this Assume That I never played smn for years.
Hunny Sumoner was my 3rd job to 75 back in 2004, yes before blood pact ward and rage were split, before avatars favor, yes before level synch, and yes before abbyssea. I been thru it all and I very well much do not condone losing 2k MP on a Job ability.

If "properly geared" means i have to store TP and use a EMP weapon only WS to make my 2hr the slightest bit feasible that's utterly retarded, not just the concept, but the comment itself. I wonder if your position would change if they never added (easy mode) equipment. Congrats you wasted time making it, just to make ur 2hr not hinder you but for the rest of us smns who don't regain 60% their mp back from a WS let me tell you, Losing 2k MP hurts.

Quote:

---

Wiki, BG, forums, FFXIAH, generally the community at large that's actually informed and any SMN who knows their role

---

What you did here is called misunderstood what I said. Then you took your own IDEA of what I said, and applied it to the single situation where it would plausibly work.
I don't live in the shadows of other's peoples glory btw, I didn't have to learn how to play my job from other summoners, I know how to use it just fine and I know that you can't predict many of the situations where Alex may have been useful or needed (as such to prevent a wipe)l. Also just to correct you its not, 900MP it's 1050 mp for full duration on alex.. and you can find that out on WIKI. Before you give advice you should take ur own advice seriously.

Now back to what I was saying, In situations where Alex would be excellent many of the time unless you have done little or nothing to support the pt ur not going to have 1050 MP to have a full perfect defense, and then on top of it getting that 1050mp back is a pain unless its 100% planned~ that's assuming you don't have temporary items and a emp staff along with it... derp?

Quote:

---

(Generally have natural refresh with all avatars now due to equipment, "eliminating" perpetuation cost.)

---

Ok so refreshing 2~8mp/3sec really makes up for losing 2000 MP.... Ok

Anywhos enough about restoring mp, because that wasn't really my concern to begin with its the simple fact that I'm either spending 2k mp on low AoE dmg, an insta kill that only works on xp mobs, or alex. If I got to spend 2k mp on something that was actually useful then you may have a point but for the most part that mp is being wasted on nothingness except some moot situations. Which drives me back to my point of view.

Why should summoner lose 2k MP for a 2hr that is half-assed?
Soras answer:
Cause I have Emp staff

Now for reals im done with you, go learn how to play smn on ffxiah plz your info is not current. Your reply wasn't even relevant it, just seems you replied just to annoy me and to argue as to why you don't want the lame mp consumption removed which is to make your relatively useless staff seem omg useful (once every 2hrs/1hrs with wings off AH, or are u subbing sam to make it useful once every 6mins choose ur poison). Point of the matter is no avatar does anything worth spending 2k for Alex is the one and only avatar that actually seems like a 2hr ability and the only one that makes your argument, as half-assed as it is, moot.

I'm sorry but I find your ignorance towards me owning a Hvergelmir staggering and using that as a main point of your argument. I do not use a Hvergelmir exclusively for MP recovery after Astral Flow and you clearly don't know how useful it is in other situations. You're being no different from Dallas thinking it's nothing more than a tool for melee summoner.

Because of that and the fact that you seem to extremely hate the fact that I don't agree with just ONE issue you presented, I will not waste time counter arguing any more points with you. You're making a huge issue out of something that is within our power to manage.

I don't find you disagreeing with me as a problem...

I simply put i hate how it cost 2k mp for a 2hr.. and you said no its okay cause you can get mp back.
Then you give me piss poor examples of very narrow scenarios were wasting 2k mp is justified, if you have X gear, X JA up, X this and that then using astral flow becomes feasible and not a waste. What about the other 90% of the time?

If u simply disagreed and left the mumbo jumbo about how regaining mp is sooooooo easy I'd not care. None of ur arguments justify why smn should waste 2k mp for a piss poor 2hr tho. Case in point I hate the fact you choose to purposely be an annoying person, not justcuz you just disagree. I also hate the fact that you comment on crap without reading then try to advise me on doing something that you simply don't do. Or try to teach me about something you don't even understand yourself. I'm not making a huge issue about much, just don't comment on something if your not going to get the gist of what the person is saying.

The other person that commented got the idea yet you still tooting about the ease of mp return when the effect is not even worth it.

To simply put you turned me saying "that the 2hr is not worth 2k mp" into "i cant get 2k mp back at all". While it is annoying to do that, the problem lies within a buff that last 3 mins yet eats all ur mp each time, for a lackluster in and of itself. I hope at this point you can comprehend what i said and been saying. Maybe then you would be a lil less obsessed with you mp return.

Piss poor examples? These?

Quote:

---

Though I understand not every SMN have time or think they can justify getting one[Insert: Hvergelmir], which is okay. SMN have many ways to get moderate amounts of MP back. Elemental Siphon natively. Refresh, aspir, and convert if subbing /rdm. Sublimination if subbing /sch. Even Spirit Taker if they're feeling froggy and have the TP. Or... just use hi-elixirs and ethers.

---

It's a song and dance of SMN we've been doing for years since CoP. Yagado Drinks and ethers, GO!

And what is with the hate towards getting equipment to cover these job weaknesses that we intentionally have? The whole game is ABOUT getting better equipment to perform better. But how about this, at what point will reducing the cost of astral flow blood pacts and summons actually going to make them worth wild from their current forum? The damage of the normal avatars we have are out done by a single blood pact past level 70.

Does it not make sense to actually adjust the astral flow abilities to work as they are suggested by dealing out massive damage to justify that full MP cost rather than just reducing it so you can use them back to back like normal blood pacts just cause they're AoE? It's not productive at all because while you're still using these abilities with a reduce MP cost, you're STILL doing things to recover this lost MP to begin with.

Yes, MP is not hard to recover. Yes, it DOES make up expending your MP pool on an astral flow if you can justify it's use. We have the tools to deal with it. It's never been that huge of an issue and it's IS one of the reasons why I disagree with you. I'm not simply disagreeing just to do it.

Quote:

---

And what is with the hate towards getting equipment to cover these job weaknesses that we intentionally have?

---

Maybe the hate comes from none of the 19 other jobs having any weaknesses to cover. (Unless you want to claim BST, NIN and COR has gil weaknesses to cover)

The Little Things that truely need fixing, if not mentioned already...

For the love of all that is sane, please let me use Assault, Retreat, Release, Blood Pacts without the loss of Sneak, Invisible, or even a Quickening status.

Thumbs up if you agree! ^^y