Whats with all the junk?

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10-31-2011, 01:22 AM
Felren

Whats with all the junk?

Voidwatch, Walk of echoes, Campaign, Abyssea, ISNM and soon the daily reward system.

Junk Junk Junk Junk

Does anyone actually enjoy seeing most of their loot being inventory fillers, some that npc for next to nothing?

Some of these junk items weren't junk at all. Until they were dumped into adventurers' pockets in mass quantities when they used to take time and effort to obtain.

Remember when orichalcum ingots were amazing to get? When Damascence cloths weren't NPC'd, when damascus ingots meant something good in the end?

Whats the point of all this crap being showered upon us with these events? Most of these items weren't impossibly rare, and could actually be a profitable source of income.

The only thing I can think of it being is a general "shut up" tactic to give something always instead of nothing. By this I mean we have gear drops from voidwatch at below 3-5% drop rates with max spectral alignment. If people got nothing 90% of the time maybe they'd be a lot rebellious from filler content than getting piled on with something at the very least.

How are we supposed to take any of this content as serious well-thought-out content if it's so clear that its filler content. Why is it so clear? Look at the drops!! ITS FILLER

ISNM junk- I'd put BCNM in but seals aren't easy enough to get to be filler. Imperial standing however during the TP burn era was easy to obtain. In ISNM you saw a few craft items go from hundreds of thousands of gil to NPC price due to the spamming.

Campaign junk- Not such a big deal since it supplements exp you can solo for (meaningless with abyssea now, but in the past it was nice).

Abyssea junk- Not the worst place for junk to be either. The junk didn't replace actual drops you wanted other than for base feet pieces. This junk however drowned many markets out and fast as abyssea was and still is done a lot.

Walk of Echoes: The exp WoE gives is pretty crappy now adays, so I'm not taking that into consideration for why people come. People come for the coins,scrolls,items. However, this is a recent and huge example of filler content. So much crap is dropped that on my alt character I filled a bag of 80 slots before being 1/4 done with the coins I needed. Thatsa lota crap.

Voidwatch: We're no longer in the low man content folks. We're in the last stand for the 18 man alliance content. Perfect spectral alignment, yada yada yada, lots of crap drops. If this is supposed to be the new endgame, why are the drops treated the same as ISNM/campaign? What a joke.
10-31-2011, 01:58 AM
Soranika

I think it's SE's way of telling us to stop being lazy and pick up a craft if we haven't already.
10-31-2011, 02:23 AM
Leonlionheart

And crafting is more expensive and less useful than ever.
10-31-2011, 02:27 AM
Tamoa

While it's nice for crafters that the different materials are more easily available, it sort of defeats the purpose when the market is flooded with these items, leading to prices dropping well below what the items can be npc'ed for. After an evening of vwnm, my inventory, satchel and sack are all filled with random synth mats and unless there is a profit of more than a couple of hundred gil to be made by selling via the AH, I npc everything.
10-31-2011, 02:50 AM
Greatguardian

I'd wager that their intent was to combat the complete and utter lack of interest in gathering fields these days. Materials that are normally logged/harvested are now being pushed into the economy by doing things people like to do. Unfortunately, as Tamoa mentioned, most people just toss/NPC these things so it's been a mixed success.

Without the RMT to basically do all of our fishing and harvesting for us, they have to come up with something to keep materials around.
10-31-2011, 02:57 AM
Tamoa

You know what would be nice? If logs were stackable... So many of the "reward" items from vwnm don't stack, and it's killing my inventory, there's only 7 AH slots available, and sending all those unstackable items to a mule to sell them, is a pain in the butt too. So yeah, I npc 95% of the junk drops from vwnm, WoE etc.
10-31-2011, 03:49 AM
Hashmalum

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greatguardian

I'd wager that their intent was to combat the complete and utter lack of interest in gathering fields these days. Materials that are normally logged/harvested are now being pushed into the economy by doing things people like to do. Unfortunately, as Tamoa mentioned, most people just toss/NPC these things so it's been a mixed success.

Without the RMT to basically do all of our fishing and harvesting for us, they have to come up with something to keep materials around.

This. HELMing is simply fundamentally broken. Period. So the dev team has decided to bypass it completely. This approach won't work unless we get more AH slots and easier AH access though.
10-31-2011, 03:53 AM
Leonlionheart

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hashmalum

This. HELMing is simply fundamentally broken. Period. So the dev team has decided to bypass it completely. This approach won't work unless we get more AH slots and easier AH access though.

PS2 limitations
10-31-2011, 04:08 AM
svengalis

If they actually added good drops eventually those good drops would turn into junk to, just like the "junk" now which were once good drops at a time. I wish they would just give us real gil rewards.
10-31-2011, 04:11 AM
Leonlionheart

Make new crafting recipes with new rarer materials that only come from VW or WoE with results that are worth using

There you go I fixed it for you
10-31-2011, 04:15 AM
Catsby

Just make more high level recipes that result in items people would use.
10-31-2011, 04:49 AM
Greatguardian

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

Make new crafting recipes with new rarer materials that only come from VW or WoE with results that are worth using

There you go I fixed it for you

Nice to meet you, Oberon's Bullets. This was such an awesome idea the first time they did it.
10-31-2011, 05:00 AM
Malamasala

Meh. Just let people eat logs, ores, thread etc and make it give attack or MAB and everyone will be happy.
10-31-2011, 06:20 AM
Leonlionheart

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Nice to meet you, Oberon's Bullets. This was such an awesome idea the first time they did it.

Something you need an "infinite" amount of isn't really the same thing
10-31-2011, 06:30 AM
Tagrineth

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

PS2 limitations

Actually the AH stuff is a server limitation, or at least it was at one point. It's all server side anyway, no reason the PS2 would restrict it.
10-31-2011, 06:37 AM
Hashmalum

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tagrineth

Actually the AH stuff is a server limitation, or at least it was at one point. It's all server side anyway, no reason the PS2 would restrict it.

This is correct. At some early point in the game's history we had more AH slots (ten?) but it was cut down to the current seven to ease load on the AH servers.
10-31-2011, 07:02 AM
Camiie

I'm still a bit put off by the Shinryu run that produced only a lynx meat.... Yeah, I went to battle the evil other dimensional god dragon of doom so I could get a lynx meat. I'm totally going to WoE for logs and ores. Oh yeah. It gives me such a rush knowing that I am so well rewarded for having braved threats to life on Vana'diel, Abyssea, past, future, and beyond. Why I'm nearly overwhelmed with the generosity of the kind NPCs when they shower me with hundreds, sometimes ones of thousands, of gil for my hard fought spoils.
10-31-2011, 03:33 PM
Babekeke

The first time I saw a Star Saphire in a gold chest in bayssea.... before I saw the 'new' current price of them on AH ><
10-31-2011, 07:22 PM
Laraul

One man's trash is another's treasure...
11-01-2011, 01:27 AM
Myrrh

Remember kids, because I don't like that means it's junk. It doesn't matter if other people enjoy them. I hate them so they're junk. JUNK JUNK JUNK JUNK. Stupid things no one bothers to do anymore. Why can't SE add something useful?
11-01-2011, 01:38 AM
Camiie

He didn't say the events are junk. He said the rewards are junk, and for the most part he's right. I can understand getting vendor trash off of common mobs, but some of the items in event and NM loot pools are more like insults than rewards. If I want lynx meat I'll farm lynxes. That's not why I fight Shinryu. If I want logs and ores I'll log and mine. That's not why I go to WoE.

Am I supposed to feel good when I kill some uber NM and walk away with nothing but logs, ores, and meat that are already as common as dirt? It's not like I'm getting cashmere from Bahamut or Vrtra back when it was a valuable material. This is stuff so worthless it doesn't even cover food, ninja tool, or pet item costs in some cases.
11-01-2011, 01:45 AM
Greatguardian

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camiie

If I want logs and ores I'll log and mine.

Not if you're like 99.99% of the playerbase, you won't. Instead you'll (general case) just bitch, moan, and make topics on General Discussion about how ores and logs are never on the Auction House and SE needs to do something about revitalizing crafting.

Except that already happened, which probably has a little something to do with why we're seeing all this useless crap everywhere.

Honestly, throwing in crap mats is better than throwing in nothing. I'd be all for a drop rate increase for good items, but there's no reason to get rid of the consolation prizes. If it's not worth the inventory space, toss it.
11-01-2011, 03:03 AM
Ophannus

The intent of making all those junk once-good-items now cheap is to make good level 75 gear super accessible because 75 isn't the level cap anymore, so things like Noble Tunic/Barone Corazza/Dragon Harness and assorted cursed gear are now dirt cheap to synth.
11-01-2011, 11:13 AM
Camiie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Honestly, throwing in crap mats is better than throwing in nothing. I'd be all for a drop rate increase for good items, but there's no reason to get rid of the consolation prizes. If it's not worth the inventory space, toss it.

Yeah I'd be down with an increase for the good stuff. Then it might not feel like we're getting trash INSTEAD of the good drops.
11-01-2011, 12:17 PM
Nynja

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Not if you're like 99.99% of the playerbase, you won't. Instead you'll (general case) just bitch, moan, and make topics on General Discussion about how ores and logs are never on the Auction House and SE needs to do something about revitalizing crafting.

Except that already happened, which probably has a little something to do with why we're seeing all this useless crap everywhere.

Honestly, throwing in crap mats is better than throwing in nothing. I'd be all for a drop rate increase for good items, but there's no reason to get rid of the consolation prizes. If it's not worth the inventory space, toss it.

Except these crap mats arent put onto the AH to be used by the playerbase...they're NPC'd.
11-01-2011, 05:06 PM
Leonlionheart

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nynja

Except these crap mats arent put onto the AH to be used by the playerbase...they're NPC'd.

because the player base only knows how to undercut
11-01-2011, 05:24 PM
Ladycandygem

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

because the player base only knows how to undercut

It is basic economics. Price is determined by supply and demand. If supply outstrips demand by enough to push the price to near or below the NPC price there is no reason to put the item on the Auction House. Clearly not enough people want this junk or its price would be higher.

Add the fact that you can only place 7 items at a time on the AH and that things like logs and ores don't stack. This is why the junk is NPC'd.
11-02-2011, 12:22 AM
Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ladycandygem

Clearly not enough people want this junk or its price would be higher.

It's not just that few people want it, it's that few people actually have synthesis high enough to make use of it.

About the only people who can make use of these high-skill mats are players who skilled their synth back when it was profitable to do so and are basically grandfathered in at this point.

I would wager the percentage of players with a 100 synthesis skill has gone down through old players quitting more than it's gone up with new players improving their skills.
11-02-2011, 02:44 AM
Nynja

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

I would wager the percentage of players with a 100 synthesis skill has gone down through old players quitting more than it's gone up with new players improving their skills.

Thats cause its hardly useful at this point, nothing is synthed really.

And heres what you can make with petrified log:
* Ancient Lumber - Woodworking (72)
* Chocobo Carvings - Synergy 75
* Freshwater Aquarium - Woodworking (80) Alchemy (36)
* River Aquarium - Woodworking (79) Alchemy (?)
* Sanctified Lumber - Woodworking (73)

Bottom 4 are meh (Sanct lumber is for an enhancement shield)...Heres what you can make with ancient lumber:
a bunch of furninshings, cursed kabuto/kote/togi, a skillup item till wood98, and junk :)
11-02-2011, 03:16 AM
Felren

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

It's not just that few people want it, it's that few people actually have synthesis high enough to make use of it.

About the only people who can make use of these high-skill mats are players who skilled their synth back when it was profitable to do so and are basically grandfathered in at this point.

I would wager the percentage of players with a 100 synthesis skill has gone down through old players quitting more than it's gone up with new players improving their skills.

The junk mats are almost all for 75 gear that has been paved over by new pieces. Having more 100 crafters wouldn't help. There really is no incentive to level up an old craft at this point unless you want to either:
1. Level synergy too or
2. Stand by a cruicible while a synergist does the work
11-02-2011, 03:54 AM
Greatguardian

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nynja

Except these crap mats arent put onto the AH to be used by the playerbase...they're NPC'd.

You'd be surprised how many people actually AH that stuff. It's kinda ridiculous. You just don't really hear about it since it's more of a casual thing.
11-02-2011, 04:54 AM
Raksha

They need to add dragon meat to vw chests. That's one crafting mat I can actually use and it doesnt show up all that often in abyssea.
11-02-2011, 06:21 AM
Alhanelem

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

Make new crafting recipes with new rarer materials that only come from VW or WoE with results that are worth using

There you go I fixed it for you

I think SE beat you to it.
11-02-2011, 12:03 PM
Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

because the player base only knows how to undercut

When you only have 7 slots available in which to sell stuff, you want them to clear out as fast as possible.
11-02-2011, 03:44 PM
Atomic_Skull

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nynja

Thats cause its hardly useful at this point, nothing is synthed really.

And heres what you can make with petrified log:
* Ancient Lumber - Woodworking (72)
* Chocobo Carvings - Synergy 75
* Freshwater Aquarium - Woodworking (80) Alchemy (36)
* River Aquarium - Woodworking (79) Alchemy (?)
* Sanctified Lumber - Woodworking (73)

Bottom 4 are meh (Sanct lumber is for an enhancement shield)...Heres what you can make with ancient lumber:
a bunch of furninshings, cursed kabuto/kote/togi, a skillup item till wood98, and junk :)

It's also used to repair a broken Lu Shang's rod.
11-02-2011, 04:46 PM
Nynja

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull

It's also used to repair a broken Lu Shang's rod.

Lets be honest...someone fishing stuff that can break a lu shang either is a 80 WW or has access to an 80 WW, cuz theyre not going to rabao every time it breaks.
11-03-2011, 07:00 AM
Olor

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greatguardian

You'd be surprised how many people actually AH that stuff. It's kinda ridiculous. You just don't really hear about it since it's more of a casual thing.

I AH some of it, but only if I have the slots and if the profit over the NPC is at least 2K... gotta pay for my consumables