Current Empy 95 Price

Trying to get a running total of what heavy iron plates are going for on all severs in hope that SE will see how ridiculous it is.

Ive seen 3 Bazaars on carbuncle with them 5 mil , 5mil , 2mil

Carbuncle Total : 7,500,000,000gil - 3,000,000,000 gil

100k a plate = 150 mil for a 95 *still a little over the top but mythic says hi*
50k = 75 mil * about the price of a relic atm so not to bad would make it rare enough*
20k = 30 mil * serious investment not to insane for even an casual player to get*
10k or lower * 95's..... 95's everywhere would be a dream but never going to happen*

Requires between 4-8 accounts with MAX gil. Estimated RL value of at least $56,583 USD , to $141,457.5 USD.

Unless Plates Drop from all content *ala kindred crests style* to the point were plates are costing 100k max to about 50k decent , and a low of 10-20k each. it is completely unreasonable to expect and player to ever complete a level 95 Empy's weapon.

2nd comparison, Lets say you have a Linkshell who does 3 T3 VW EVERY day with 18 people never lose a kill and get a 50% drop rate on plates. 165 kills of T3 Void watch lets avg 30 mins a kill since t3 can be nasty 82.5 HOURS of voidwatch to complete.

If you spot any in your servers bazaars please list the price and what server.
i think i mathed this right... i prob didnt.

And people complained about mythics.

Good news, 90 Emps will probably always be better than the other options for most jobs, excluding maybe drk(reilc), sam(relic), and drg(mythic, and probably relic too since rhongo sucks major c**k).

[ If people Actually post i will use this space to keep a running High / low / Avg log of the price]
*names Removed for privacy*
Ragnarok.[Source: Guildwork Client] PM 100,000
Fenrir.[Source: Guildwork Client] PM 300,000
Cerberus.[Source: Guildwork Client] PM 500,000
Shiva.[Source: Guildwork Client] PM 199,000
Ragnarok.[Source: Guildwork Client] PM 1,500,000
Ragnarok.[Source: Guildwork Client] PM 950,000
Ragnarok.[Source: Guildwork Client] PM 1,000,000
Shiva.[Source: Guildwork Client] PM 200,000
Asura.[Source: Guildwork Client] PM 200,000
Valefor.[Source: Guildwork Client] PM 1,000,000
Asura.[Source: Guildwork Client] PM 399,999
Ragnarok.[Source: Guildwork Client] PM 500,000

Current GW listing as of 11:12 10/1/2011
Avg Price across all listed servers: 737416 gil *per plate*
Avg Price to complete based on all servers: 1,106,124,000 *1.1 Billion Gil*

Avg Per Sever : * from AH , and FF info bazaar listings per sever* if someone can tell me what the kanji is for metal plates i can check the Japanese side of Bazzar's


Bahamut * no Listings*
Min:
Avg:
Max:

Shiva *2 listings*
Min: 199,000
Avg:199,500
Max:200,000

Phoenix
Min:
Avg:
Max:

Carbuncle * 1 listing found*
Min: 500,000
Avg:500,000
Max:500,000

Fenrir * 1 listing*
Min: 300,000
Avg:300,000
Max:300,000

Sylph
Min:
Avg:
Max:

Valefor
Min: 1,000,000
Avg:1,000,000
Max:1,000,000

Leviathan
Min:
Avg:
Max:

Odin
Min:
Avg:
Max:

Quetzalcoatl
Min:
Avg:
Max:

Siren
Min:
Avg:
Max:

Ragnarok * listings 5 atm*
Min: 100,000
Avg: 810,000
Max:1,500,000

Cerberus * 1 listing*
Min: 500,000
Avg:500,000
Max:500,000

Bismarck
Min:
Avg:
Max:

Lakshmi
Min:
Avg:
Max:

Asura * 2 listings*
Min: 200,000
Avg:299,999
Max:399,999


Current Cheapest Server : Shiva
Current Price to Complete on Shiva : 299,250,000

500k each (4x).

I've seen a few for 100k, 200k, and a lot for 500k. I'm going to start buying at 100k, because I don't think the price will ever drop below that.

The only thing I can think of is that the next update will include more sources (additional WoE chambers, more voidwatch NMs, etc.) but as it stands this quest is almost as daunting as Alexandrite was when mythics were released.

I'd buy anything below 200k myself. You say in the Op that 75 M is the price of relics? it requires about 175, 100coins which is pretty much 175M. Farming your own plates is not practical, because voidwatch sucks, the drop rate (50%?) sucks, and you are limited with voidstones.

Honestly I don't find this the least bit unexpected considering the vast majority of the feedback on these forums has been either Relic holders complaining about how easy Empyreans are or non-Relic holders complaining about how easy Empyreans are.

That said, 165 fights isn't as terrible as it sounds if we're talking an old-school Relic/Mythic class weapon, and you can always supplement this with bought plates (I'd never buy over 200k personally =/ I'd optimistically hope for the market to stabilize at 100). It definitely removed the casual player from the equation though, holy crap. Hopefully there's an ODD rate increase on these 95s, and there's something new in store for 99 versions. OTD would be pretty boss.

Edit: You're not really limited with voidstones. You can always buy Voiddust with cruor/ISP/CP, and you can even trade voiddust so you could buy voidstones from other people if you really wanted to.

This probably has to wait since it's new everyone will price them as high as they possibly can, seen people bazzar them for 1 mil EACH on cerb (this person is obviously retarded), this massive greed dies down in time after new content is released, but yea, need other ways of obtaining these or a 95 empy won't ever see the light of day.

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Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

And people complained about mythics.

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Mythic weapons is a whole different annoying beast. Guess Emps had to cost something other than time eventually.

You know, when SE said that they would be balancing the Mythic and Relic completion rate to the Empyrean, I thought that they would adjust the drop rate of currencies and Alexandrites, and I had a feeling that I Would be wrong, and I was really, REALLY hoping that I was right.

IF this is SE's answer to "balance it out" it's a wrong answer. The drop rate of heavy plates are horrendous, The rate of getting ONE STAGE done is almost entirely the same rate as getting a whole friggin weapon empyrean and mythic stage done. It's ridiculous and completely unreasonable.

Also, there hasn't even been a record of someone selling Heavy Plates in Phoenix as of yet. That's pretty damn bad.

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And people complained about mythics.

Good news, 90 Emps will probably always be better than the other options for most jobs, excluding maybe drk(reilc), sam(relic), and drg(mythic, and probably relic too since rhongo sucks major c**k).

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And that is why that this is not an answer to "Balance things out" period. It makes no sense to make an (and very much slight) upgrade stage to be incredibly daunting just to 'balance out' with the mythic. It's ridiculous.

I WAS REALLY hoping that the Heavy Metal would be like Kindred Crests/Seals drop rate, but only in abyssea, given the number of how many machina mobs (Especially in Scars) are around. But this is completely unreasonable.

Just a thought here. We've seen Silver Mirrors dropping from older VWs (city paths) and early Jeuno tiers. Who is to say that the heavy plates won't be just that if VW continues into the 96-99 range for CoP, ToAU areas?

I may be wrong, but it is food for thought. If I am right, I expect a huge black and white cookie over-nighted to my house.

I dont see why people think this is fine. Comparing prices with coins is a bit silly considering currently you can make away with a good portion of coins each day form dynamis with 2-3 ppl, woidwatch on the other hand you are looking at large scale event (need as many as possible for staggers) with the hopes of maybe 1 plate. It doesnt help that voidwatch as a whole has poor lotting system as a whole. 6 rare/ex drop to mule vs 0 for the actual player. The real kicker is that with the 25% ws boost and the recent 20% hidden 2.5-3 dmg on the last trial, you are looking at a mythic level trial for a lesser weapon in the near future. I am all for balance among these weapons, however the task of alexanderites and now plates, they have really turned it back to the 1year per relic age, and that is depressing as hell. Not to mention With VW and WoE drop rates they are going back to the 1 drop a week style development.

Either case i have yet to see a plate drop or find one in a bazaar, closes iv seen are die for the lesser empy which thsoe themselves were set at around 200-500k lol

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Honestly I don't find this the least bit unexpected considering the vast majority of the feedback on these forums has been either Relic holders complaining about how easy Empyreans are or non-Relic holders complaining about how easy Empyreans are.

That said, 165 fights isn't as terrible as it sounds if we're talking an old-school Relic/Mythic class weapon, and you can always supplement this with bought plates (I'd never buy over 200k personally =/ I'd optimistically hope for the market to stabilize at 100). It definitely removed the casual player from the equation though, holy crap. Hopefully there's an ODD rate increase on these 95s, and there's something new in store for 99 versions. OTD would be pretty boss.

Edit: You're not really limited with voidstones. You can always buy Voiddust with cruor/ISP/CP, and you can even trade voiddust so you could buy voidstones from other people if you really wanted to.

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Just a little something you forgot is that the 18 members of your ally want a plate because they either want it for clink-clink or for their one empy. In other words you are not looking at 165 fights but 165*18=nearly 3000 fights if you dont buy anything. This Is why the only way to get a level 95 weapon is to buy most of it. This why voidwatch is a triple fail event. The gear sucks. The fights have artificial difficulty or drop condition difficulty essentially based on the number of people. And beeing dedicated into voidwatch doesnt give you more chance at the level 95 empy. I mean someone that can play decently can definitely build more than 100k in 30 minutes, nevermind the fact that averaging 30 minutes per fight in unrealistic due to people failing at being ponctual or ready all at once for instance.

Square already knew how stupid this would be when they added it, they have staff that check out all this stuff and they picked that sadistic number on purpose. They either like the high number or they plan to lower it in the next update so everyone gushes over them with joy (wow Square your so awesome, you listen to us! :DD).

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Honestly I don't find this the least bit unexpected considering the vast majority of the feedback on these forums has been either Relic holders complaining about how easy Empyreans are or non-Relic holders complaining about how easy Empyreans are.

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This was done becaase they are are being sadistic and lazy again, not to appease relic owners. An 85 Emp blows a 95 relic out of the water, this does nothing to adress the balance between the weapons.

The biggest issue I personally see is time spent in farming these - not to mention the restriction that comes with voidstones.

Not sure the exact figure but people say it sits around a 20% drop rate - with capped alignment & TH.

Lets do the maths here - If you were to get a pouch running by these figures you are talking about 625 voidstones used per upgrade - that is assuming you get a pouch 20% of the time.

At this rate it will take approximately 1-2 years to farm enough plates required to do this solo.. (if my maths are correct.. it's getting late). This is also assuming you get capped alignment every kill - which happens most of the time but not *all* the time.

A little bit over the top? I believe so. Make pouches 100% drop with capped alignment and we will be happy.

The time spent does not equal reward in my opinion. For a few base DMG+, 3 atrribute+, and same delay - this hardly seems worth doing.

Complaining about people asking 5 mil for a plate is a bit bizar, considering it's a player's choice to put them up for that amount and it's a new item subject to the overpricing rage that happens every update.

As for the heavy metal plates, 1500 is a lot but keep in mind they can drop to everyone in the alliance (each has their own chest), you can also get a POUCH of heavy metal and they are tradable.

They will be in heavy demand for a while, so you might as well make a profit out of it now, then buy 10x as much back later.

Voidwatch is the new endgame, with parts III and IV still to come, which possible give even more chances for heavy metal to drop.

Incidently, does anyone know how the heavy metal plate is listed in inventory? I think it's "Heavy Metal", but I haven't seen a screenshot of it in inventory yet.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

This why voidwatch is a triple fail event. The gear sucks.

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Yeah, a 15% Cure potency, 15% cure cast time body that rdm and sch can equip sucks. So does an Adaman Hauberk-1 with extra DA that mnk/thf/nin/etc can equip. And don't get me started on a damage taken-8% body piece that also converts 1.4% of damage taken to TP, that one is terrible.

My gripe with Voidwatch is less that the gear sucks and more that it's almost impossible to "target" a piece. For instance, I would give up every R/Ex drop in Voidwatch for Toci's Harness. With an LS and any other kind of loot system, that would be possible. The way it's set up, it isn't. On average, I'd have to do something like 35~70 Pil fights for a 50% chance of getting the body, and 0/100 is still entirely within the realm of possibility.

Is that going to drive the Heavy Metal market? Honestly probably not. The biggest problem with the Heavy Metal market is that you have to be in an alliance to do farm it, and putting together an alliance to pull in a few plates is a big PITA.

500k on Valefor though im pretty sure in a few weeks this price will drop down :D. Se will more than likely add new ways to get them aswell, as for the guy who said it costs 75 mil for a relic lol double that.

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Originally Posted by noodles355

Yeah, a 15% Cure potency, 15% cure cast time body that rdm and sch can equip sucks. So does an Adaman Hauberk-1 with extra DA that mnk/thf/nin/etc can equip. And don't get me started on a damage taken-8% body piece that also converts 1.4% of damage taken to TP, that one is terrible.

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Of course, if pchan dosn't want/need it, it sucks, where have you been?

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Complaining about people asking 5 mil for a plate is a bit bizar, considering it's a player's choice to put them up for that amount and it's a new item subject to the overpricing rage that happens every update.

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Most people are aware over pricing is a very common thing every update, but 5 mil a plate? even gill buyers aren't that retarded and they usually have no sense of value to what things cost. and anyone idiot who puts it up for that much deservers to die in a damn fire, if there is a word for beyond taking advantage.

You know what I see here with this 1500 metal plate trial? I see SE throwing their arms up in defeat with relics/mythics because they don't want to rewrite their coding or whatever the hell is so hard and difficult about changing stats on 8/9/whatever year old items, and are just going with Empyreans being the new hardcore ultimate weapon. That's what I see when they want you to hunt down 1500 drops that are a super pain in the ass for drop rate. Good luck with just 500 people owning a lv95 in the next 5+ years.

Not that not owning a 95 and eventually a 99 will be the end of the world. But still. Even with a "high" drop rate it's going to take awhile to complete this trial. Most people I've seen to comment on the whole empyrean vs relic issue seem like they would be okay with empyrean weapons being better than relics if they were harder to obtain. They didn't seem to have any problems until they learned they can just team up with an alliance and speed through them. Well, now they are harder. Much harder. It might not be the base quest, but it still counts on the way to the 99 march. 90 alone is already a pretty big road block for most people. We saw the considerable difference in the census. Empyreans are getting harder with the 85 looking to be the casual version. Empyreans being the new hardcore weap of the bunch is sounding about right to me.

Also I guess it could come back to the whole idea that they are time sinking us to death on voidwatch because there is jack crap lined up for content anytime soon. Who knows. But I know not a damn soul is paying 5 mil for a plate. I haven't even seen one in a bazaar yet.

Didn't relics get a major boost from 90 to 95 as well? I heard the 2-3x dmg proc rate was increased from about 8% to 20%. I am not sure, I am just going by what other relic owners told me. If that's the case, as easy as their trial was, our empy's aftermath better have an increased proc rate. 1,500 items, in my opinion, gives us a reason to say "Empys are just as hard as relics now." We deserve a hidden effect, additional effect, etc. That's just how I feel but oh well. :\ I am close to my 90 empyrean and started doing VW with my LS. Since then, I have yet to see a heavy metal plate be received by anyone in my LS....

Empyreans were incredibly overpowered at 85 and 90 of course they arn't going to get any more hidden boosts, that been said im sure this 1500 will get lowered or more places were the plates drop added in either a mini update or the next major one.

Incredibly overpowered for... roughly ~5 jobs, in 3 add-ons? Aside from most of the weaponskills have horrid mods relic/mythic got a nice increase at 95, it isn't like at 75 were normal weapons were only slightly below them, short of having relic/mythic/emp I don't think any other weapon without a unique added effect comes close to them now (unless in mythic's case, you can't keep aftermath up or as mentioned above, the weaponskill is completely useless).

I'm just going to throw out that with COP Dyna release, farming an Empyrean in a Duo/Trio is now more time consuming and than farming a Relic to loan stage.

Relic takes more days, but not more effort.

Time required to farm:
Relic: At 100 currency per hour with some added time for attestation/fragment, Relics take about a week of playtime to complete. This is mostly done duo, so it's about 2 weeks playtime (~340 mahours unless you dualbox).

Empyrean: I've heard estimates as low as 3 Heavy Metal plates average per Tier 3/4 Jeuno path NM with capped lights and a full alliance. Assuming each fight takes 30 minutes (including gather time/etc), you're looking at 4,500 manhours (27 weeks playtime) to complete one Empyrean from 90 to 95. Even if you average 5 per Voidwatch NM, you're looking at 2,700 manhours (16 weeks playtime).

Mythic: If you average 70 Alexandrite per 90-minute run (which is high on the Alex and low on the time) with three people, you'd expect the Alexandrite stage of a Mythic to take about 2,000 manhours (11.5 weeks playtime).

Demand for the level 95 version:
Relic: They're still nice for some jobs, and a lot of people have "owning a relic" as one of their long-term goals.

Empyrean: Many people have level 85 versions. Fewer people have level 90 versions. There are still more level 90 Empyreans than relics and mythics combined. The demand is high even if people don't value the extra stats on the 95 Empyrean version purely because of how many Empyreans there are in circulation.

Mythic: DD-Mythic have long been seen as jokes. This perception really should have changed in the last few patches, and realistically now mythics are the best DD weapons for many jobs, but the demand is still relatively low due to the formidable requirements for the 75 version.

So yeah, the easiest level 95 "special" weapon to get by far is a relic. Empyreans take many more man hours to complete to 95 than Mythics, but Voidwatch is current endgame and Salvage is not. People would do Voidwatch even if Heavy Metal Plates don't drop there. People mostly farm Salvage for Alexandrite. The problem is actually going to be when Voidwatch is no longer endgame, because there's no way to lowman farm Heavy Metal Plates.

If I farm bastok I do 275 coins a run with 2+ mules. You should get more with cop since its possible to target JA only mobs and switch camps every 20 minutes. I tried buburimu and got ~70 during a 20min window of JA procs. So if everything is perfectly runing, say it takes total of 20 minutes to farm TEs+ total time to move to the next camps, you're looking at maybe 5x70=350 coins, but with 3 different types. In the end you'll have to sell some so idk if it is really "much" faster. Good if you need all three types really.

With that voidwatch crap I concluded that SE will just never succeed at balancing the game back.

Their solution to job balance is: come up with an event where you need the most variety of jobs to succeed ( VW's fail proc system). Right people will not complain that their josb sucks, because its needed to proc in VW... oh wait, it still sucks.

Their balance to relic vs mythic vs empyream: people expect them to lower mythic requirements, and boost relic's powers to empy's power. SE solution: make relic still suck, make mythic less suck, [ both beeing inferior to lv 85 empys in many cases...], make empy still #1 but give them a requirement 3x harder than mythic. lol.

With all this said.. I really want empyreans to get a nice boost then ... As was mentioned, Empyrean Weapons were only overpowered in abyssea.. Go outside, They are no longer "the girl next door," in a bunny outfit.

I think your kidding youself if you think they are going to get a boost the odd on them is from 30% to 50% depending on tp what do you want it to be 75-100 % lol.

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Originally Posted by Byrth

The problem is actually going to be when Voidwatch is no longer endgame, because there's no way to lowman farm Heavy Metal Plates.

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I think thats the problem. I honestly dont think people will spend more than a few months farming VW because of how terrible an event it is: first an event requiring 18 to succeed, not because the mobs are hard, but because they have instant death TP move ( thuse needing more than just one tank+ healer + few dds) and due to the bad proc system, and because the thing you are after will never drop with capped lights... Second the gear are sidegrades at best , in most case situational and totally not worth the effort, efect a few exceptions. For those reason people will switch focus soon and HMP will become rare. Just my opinion but I don't think people will do VW after the dynamis+2 armors are introduced [ here I'm optimistic and expect +2 to be good lol..].

No VW is not an elite event. No VW is not hard. The only difficulty in vw is gather 18 people with a half brain functionning. Throwing people and a mob was never anything hard. Players require "hard" content and SE came up with 18 man content, giving it parameters ( proc system) that nake low manning useless. They think hard= need more people. They could use their imagination and make hard- yet 6 manable- content, but they chose the easy way. I personally refuse to do anything with more than 6 people. The days of old dynamis LSes are over and they sucked. I don't want that back.

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Originally Posted by uptempo

I think your kidding youself if you think they are going to get a boost the odd on them is from 30% to 50% depending on tp what do you want it to be 75-100 % lol.

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You need to read what I typed. I said "I want" I am not saying "they are."

EDIT: And isn't the odd a constant 30% TP just depends on how long it last?... I want proof before you start shouting "fake facts."

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Originally Posted by Erics

You need to read what I typed. I said "I want" I am not saying "they are."

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Point still stands! What more do you want on them.

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Originally Posted by Erics

With all this said.. I really want empyreans to get a nice boost then ... As was mentioned, Empyrean Weapons were only overpowered in abyssea.. Go outside, They are no longer "the girl next door," in a bunny outfit.

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Idk, Blade:hi, Victory smite and Ukon's fury are pure ownage even outside, and probably other. I do 2k+ victory smites when the next good WS, asuran fists, does 1~1.5k tops. that s +33% damg minimum. Not to mention the god mode aftermath.

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Originally Posted by Monchat

I think thats the problem. I honestly dont think people will spend more than a few months farming VW because of how terrible an event it is: first an event requiring 18 to succeed, not because the mobs are hard, but because they have instant death TP move ( thuse needing more than just one tank+ healer + few dds) and due to the bad proc system, and because the thing you are after will never drop with capped lights... Second the gear are sidegrades at best , in most case situational and totally not worth the effort, efect a few exceptions. For those reason people will switch focus soon and HMP will become rare. Just my opinion but I don't think people will do VW after the dynamis+2 armors are introduced [ here I'm optimistic and expect +2 to be good lol..].

No VW is not an elite event. No VW is not hard. The only difficulty in vw is gather 18 people with a half brain functionning. Throwing people and a mob was never anything hard. Players require "hard" content and SE came up with 18 man content, giving it parameters ( proc system) that nake low manning useless. They think hard= need more people. They could use their imagination and make hard- yet 6 manable- content, but they chose the easy way. I personally refuse to do anything with more than 6 people. The days of old dynamis LSes are over and they sucked. I don't want that back.

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This is pretty much entirely how I see it. In a year, the requirement would be impossible even if they lowered it to 150 Heavy Metal Plates. The only way that they're going to keep the supply up is adding other suppliers.

Also, it's not just that Voidwatch is difficult to lowman and get drops. It's that you need 18 people to get the maximum possible number of drops. If you cap lights with 8 people, you still only get ~50 items. If you cap lights with 18 people, you get ~110 items. If there's approximately a 5~10% chance of a pouch/single, Empyrean owners should want all the people opening chests that they can get even if they're just afking for the fight.

Edit: One more thing. If anything, we're incredibly lucky that Empyreans receive such a superficial upgrade going from 90 to 95. It means the competition for the Heavy Metal plates will be lower than it would be otherwise.

I gained a little faith when Asapanda (LSmate) got 12 Metal Plates yesterday while getting the clears for Zilart VW. While 1500 is a lot, its only a matter of time until you start seeing 95 emps. The JP community on Cerb does a very good job with VW, I'm sure we'll see some soon. Once the first couple 95s get done people will be more motivated.

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Originally Posted by Erics

You need to read what I typed. I said "I want" I am not saying "they are."

EDIT: And isn't the odd a constant 30% TP just depends on how long it last?... I want proof before you start shouting "fake facts."

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You have a almace go test the damn thing you will see yourself nothing fake in what i stated.

Also i said it depends on tp in the first post the only ones with constant odd are relics not that its hard to keep your aftermath up.

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Originally Posted by noodles355

Yeah, a 15% Cure potency, 15% cure cast time body that rdm and sch can equip sucks.

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White mage, what is it ? It's faster to "get" and better with better gear potency /speed, and better spells. Enjoy your cure 4s.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

White mage, what is it ? It's faster to "get" and better with better gear potency /speed, and better spells. Enjoy your cure 4s.

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Interesting. Your answer to "I want X gear" is "Get someone on Y job in your party." By that logic, nobody should be interested in ANY gear that gives less of a benefit than a COR, BRD, WHM, etc. in their party can give.

Your logic is not of this Earth.

Byrth, I would put the actual numbers closer to:

Relic: 145h farming to get to loan stage @100c/h (2-3box)

Emp: 168h to get to 90 stage on anything outside of LaTheine (For example, Ukonvasara)

Even if you pull it back to 85 stage where the weapons become useful, you're still looking at near equal time requirements.

The relic is going to take many weeks longer to complete than the Empyrean weapon, but in terms of total effort not so much.

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Originally Posted by Mahoro

Interesting. Your answer to "I want X gear" is "Get someone on Y job in your party." By that logic, nobody should be interested in ANY gear that gives less of a benefit than a COR, BRD, WHM, etc. in their party can give.

Your logic is not of this Earth.

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And your philosophy is to use the the current jobs that don't suck (WHM) to farm gears to those that suck (SCH,RDM). In the end of the day, with better gear, sch is vastly inferior to WHM, period.