[dev1020] WoE (and Voidwatch drops). can we pool them?

this has been brought up by people before for voidwatch. can we have the option to put our personal "loot" into a pool for others participating to lot them? this was done in abyssea, and campaign has a loot system that would allow for everyone there to lot (needed for new WoE).

personally i love the idea based on everyone getting their own items from kills. but there are many many times you will be grouping with others that you know REALLY want an item, they always get none and you always get one or a bunch (coins being multiples).

i do a WoE now, i only need glory coins. i have gotten one so far and have gotten 7 ruin coins, and know many people on those runs that need them and are getting glory coins they are tossing. so we could just toss them into a pool, and keep what we want or need. the system still wont be perfect cause people will see items in the pool and lot for no reason, BUT its better than nothing and has no other real downsides.

obviously from a dev point of view on a fairly limiting game (coding wise) idk if there would be issues not allowing this. but i ask that SE please look into this and try to find a solution like what i said. this has been a problem since voidwatch came out, and even more so now that WoE is similar. though i also want to say thank you for a system like that, its a great concept that i really enjoy. just... let us share with others please XD

Good idea.

I can see the desire to want to give things you don't want or need to those that do. However, I am also a big fan of the personal reward all for yourself deal as well.

Personally, I'd rather have the system give rewards similar to the bonanza vouchers, in which you can trade it for one item from a list of items so when you do win, you can at least pick something you want. Maybe gil or exp scroll for it if there's absolutely nothing else you could possibly want to trade the voucher for.

What would be best, I think, is the ability to add items to the pool after picking out the ones you want for yourself, and make it so that no one else is informed of what was in your box, except the items you added to the pool :p.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

What would be best, I think, is the ability to add items to the pool after picking out the ones you want for yourself, and make it so that no one else is informed of what was in your box, except the items you added to the pool :p.

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pretty much my thoughts. others don't need to know what you get, just toss them what you don't want so it doesn't go to waste.

voucher system also sounds like a great idea. i just don't know if it would be too much in SEs eyes to put in. but any method of helping people get what they want and avoid what they really don't need would be a great addition really

SE had some responce along the lines of "this is not abyssea and is working the way we want it to," in some other thread.

At the very least make it so you can trade the coins.

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Originally Posted by Arcas

At the very least make it so you can trade the coins.

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Agreed.

Superfluous text.

Not a bad idea, and workable in Voidwatch where you likely have a relationship with most of the group, but giving people the option to roll on your loot in relatively anonymous WoE runs would seriously run afoul of the Prisoner's Dilemma.

Not saying it's bad per se, but you'd have to include some sort of mechanism where somebody could only get access to the pool by ponying up his own drops, and even then you'd have to put something in to keep the pool from just being 30 silver ores. It'd be much easier to just make coins bazaarable.

Agree with the OP.

WoE and Voidwatch loot distribution needs re-vamping, and the sooner the better. The concept of individual loot for all participants is good. However, we need to be able to do one of the following to really make this a succeed:

1. Move loot to the general Treasure Pool, when desired by the individual,
2. Trade/bazaar loot (remove the "Ex" tag), or
3. Trade Rare/Ex loot to an NPC for "credits", which in turn can be used to purchase/acquire a different Rare/Ex loot item.

Any of these methods would be fine. Just please don't leave the system as it is right now. It's good, but still flawed, and needs improvement.

The ability to send items to general treasure pool is a disaster scenario. People would be unable to loot their own items due to the overflow of others capping out their inventory as fast as they can clear it.

Adding a general treasure pool in addition to private treasure pools might be a better solution. Just like they did pre-WoE fix...

Dear SE...since everyone has their own individual loot pool, no one can target coins, and are basically getting whatever gets thrown their way. I'm trying to upgrade a Maschu +2 on my alt, which requires Coins of Glory. Here are my coin counts:

Advancement (h2h axe polearm): 29
Birth (dagger scythe gun):21
Decay (GKT Club Bow): 30
Ruin (lolstaff): 27

and finally
Glory (gax sword katana): 13

This character has the following jobs:
WAR MNK(Vere upgraded) RDM BLM WHM.

With those Advancement coins, I could upgrade to a fake Axe, but theres not much use in it since the WS is kinda mediocre (while it has brewing practicality...too bad certain mobs you WOULD brew happen to be put into rage mode after taking lightning damage). Theres no point upgrading h2h cause she has it, and she does not have drg lvled, nor unlocked even.

With those Birth coins, I could potentially upgrade a dagger, as I may want to level her thief for future use. Gun and Scythe are useless as she does not have applicable jobs leveled, nor do I intend to level them.

With those Decay coins, I could potentially upgrade the club, for fun. But, I rarely use her whm, she has better options for a melee mage, on top of the fact I allready have a Canne du Combat+2 at my disposal. GKT and Bow are a non-factor as, once again, the jobs arent leveled.

I'll probably make a lolstaff with the coins of ruin...maybe. But once again, its just a toy.

And, the coins I DO want, just happen to be the ones I have received the least of. What a coincidence...the game drops what you DONT want. Its like it knows. Is there any reason why you guys cant/will not add in a coin swapper like you did for seals/crests? Fear of rendering competion of the event is a pretty lame excuse considering that there are still the new scrolls to hunt for, as well as dice.

*EDIT*
aaaaaand just like that, POW pouch of decay.

I'm not saying loot should be poolable, I'm ok with WoE loot being personal...but if you're going to force coins on people, atleast allow people to exchange coins they dont want for what they do. Imagine the shitstorm that would ensue if someone popped glavoid, but only got kukulcan fangs. Thats basically whats happening here.

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Originally Posted by Nynja

Imagine the shitstorm that would ensue if someone popped glavoid, but only got kukulcan fangs. Thats basically whats happening here.

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why did you have to say that? now its gonna happen.

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Originally Posted by Nynja

if someone popped glavoid, but only got kukulcan fangs. Thats basically whats happening here.

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Lol.. not even in the slightest.. it just means you went to the wrong zone and popped the wrong mob...

Random drops are random. Once you get the coins you want, you'll likely never go back there to help others. So the system has been designed to keep you inside for as long as possible. This is why the junk staff gets it's own special coin, while several of the popular weapons are bunched together on the same coin. If the 5 most popular weapons each had their own coin, WoE would be pretty much dead within a week, except maybe for AH farmers looking for RDM melee spells to sell for 3M gil. Converting coins would speed up that outcome.

Sure, people arent doing it for the dice to upgrade their woe weapons, or for the new scrolls that are still anywhere between 500k to 3 million gil.

Do you want to know why WoE was dead untill they changed it? Because personal chests got rid of leeches. Some scrub enters the zone, does nothing but hinders the group who knows what theyre doing, and then "hey I gona lot alllll dem pouches"...Mr DNC COR DRG would go and lot advancement/glory/decay coins just because its loot and "I WANT IT I KAN LOT" even though they had NO use for it.

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Originally Posted by Kristal

If the 5 most popular weapons each had their own coin, WoE would be pretty much dead within a week, except maybe for AH farmers looking for RDM melee spells to sell for 3M gil. Converting coins would speed up that outcome.

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Temper sells for 3 mil? Yeah didnt think so...highest price on any given server is about 600k. Who said anything about "every weapon having their own coin"? I didnt. And my analogy about Glavoid dropping Kuku fangs is valid, because if you want to upgrade dagger/GAX, you farm and kill glavoid. If you want to upgrade fake Sword/GA/Katana, you cant target any specific conflux to get the drops you want.

I really don't see why this can't be like gold chests in abyssea, where you can take stuff, or add it to the pool. If they made it like that, so that you could share your loot, but other people couldn't pop your chest, people would be encouraged to team up.

Let me ask you a question Krystal...very simple question, and luck factors of getting 5 glory pouches in 1-3 runs doesnt count.

Does it make sense that it takes MORE time to get an inferior weapon? That gameday cooldown factors into farming time (ie just because you rape 07 in 5 minutes, doesnt mean you're spending 30 minutes doing WoE 6 times, thats 6 hours of "farming time"), and I've done 76 WoE runs post patch (not all were 07, I have no actual way to check quickly, and I'm now up to 27 Glory coins since my last tally (I got lucky and hit a 10 coin pouch, woo woo woo you know it). That's 76 hours of potential glavoid/tunga farming, which any competant player could easily upgrade an ukon to 85 in 76 hours.

So I ask again, does it make sense that it takes MORE time to get an inferior weapon? No...it doesnt.

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Originally Posted by Nynja

Let me ask you a question Krystal...very simple question, and luck factors of getting 5 glory pouches in 1-3 runs doesnt count.

Does it make sense that it takes MORE time to get an inferior weapon? That gameday cooldown factors into farming time (ie just because you rape 07 in 5 minutes, doesnt mean you're spending 30 minutes doing WoE 6 times, thats 6 hours of "farming time"), and I've done 76 WoE runs post patch (not all were 07, I have no actual way to check quickly, and I'm now up to 27 Glory coins since my last tally (I got lucky and hit a 10 coin pouch, woo woo woo you know it). That's 76 hours of potential glavoid/tunga farming, which any competant player could easily upgrade an ukon to 85 in 76 hours.

So I ask again, does it make sense that it takes MORE time to get an inferior weapon? No...it doesnt.

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But think of all the other items that you don't want from WoE that you now have :P

I got 30 of each coin last week sometime. My totals stand currently at:

Glory 35
Birth 53
Advance 40
Decay 30
Ruin 30

About 35 dice which I've sold, and about 11 mil total from $$$ drops/dice.

When the update 1st came out I was in favor of a 1:3 ratio trade at npc. Now I think I am leaning more towards the system being good as is. Spam 7 if you want coins/dice. Spam 9+ if you want scrolls.

Somewhere in the future ... next update maybe when the event starts to slow down (which it already has noticeably on Bahamut at certain hours) then institute a 1:3 npc. That will allow people who are still missing 30 of one type to get what they need. It also will make small groups doing the older fluxes more appealing.

Voidwatch on the other hand is in dire need of being able to drop unwanted or already owned items into a pool from the chest. I am a really big fan of the new WoE, and also Voidwatch. I really enjoy both events. They are fun, and engaging. I am very pleased that the game Has moved back out into the "real world" and away from the blatant easymode.

However, nothing is more upsetting than completing an exciting VW battle then popping a chest full of garbage drops while another LS member gets a sexy rare/ex piece of gear for the 2nd or 3rd time. While you, and others have yet to receive it.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

But think of all the other items that you don't want from WoE that you now have :P

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Makes sense to upgrade a fake Bow for someone without rng lvled...

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Originally Posted by Zaknafein

I got 30 of each coin last week sometime. My totals stand currently at:

Glory 35
Birth 53
Advance 40
Decay 30
Ruin 30

About 35 dice which I've sold, and about 11 mil total from $$$ drops/dice.

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You got those drops in how many runs, in which conflux?

And I'm a little skeptical about "I made 11 mil in a week", that would mean you got an above average drop rate on scrolls. Its possible you sold scrolls on mules, but I cant find any record of you selling Comet, Thunder V, Holy II, Blizzaja...sadly the records only go as far back as 4 days ago, so you could be telling the truth, who knows.


heres the loot I got doing 07 exclusively in the past 5 days, anywhere from 3-6 runs per day:
Adv: 12
Birth: 15
Decay: 17
Glory: 11
Ruin: 9
Pouches: 8 (A2, B3, D2, G1, R0 yay)
Dice: 2

Scrolls / Items unique to 07
Lacono necklace
Scroll of Aero V
Scroll of Enlight
Medb's gauntlets
Dragon talon
Scroll of Aero V
Lacono necklace

theres more stuff that I just didnt keep cause its not worth it (mythril ores etc)


Just did an 07, didnt even get a coin...yup, wonderful.

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Originally Posted by Zaknafein

I got 30 of each coin last week sometime. My totals stand currently at:

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I didn't say I got all that in a week. I'm saying I arrived at a minimum of 30 of each type last week sometime. Aka it took me from the update till early last week to have enough coins to do a weapon of each coin type, and 11 mil in profits. Which seems like an acceptable span of time for 5 separate weapons, and a nice chunk of $$$.

Presuming you did an average of 5 WoE runs since patch, which was 24 days ago...puts you at approx 120 runs, 120 hours of farming for 1 (inferior) weapon that you were targeting and 4 (inferior) weapons that you dont want / cant use. Theres the key words...dont want / cant use. Which means "loltoobadsosad"

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Originally Posted by Nynja

Presuming you did an average of 5 WoE runs since patch, which was 24 days ago...puts you at approx 120 runs, 120 hours of farming for 1 (inferior) weapon that you were targeting and 4 (inferior) weapons that you dont want / cant use. Theres the key words...dont want / cant use. Which means "loltoobadsosad"

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On the contrary I am making one of the weapons from each coin path to compliment the empy I already have, and the Ukon I am in the process of finishing. These woe version's are fine for my less frequently used jobs, and didn't come with the added stipulation that I have to help on 2-3 other peoples weapons which is the norm for an empy static.

For players who do not dual box, or have no desire to join an empy static for w/e reason, or like people in my case who already have one or two empy's Woe serves it's purpose. 24 days of work for multiple WoE options, and a nice chunk of gil combined with the added bonus of doing it completely to suit your own schedule, and being beholden to no one is a decent trade off. Effort vs. Reward ratio seems balanced imo.

Additionally I didn't run out to abyssea when the update was released to level all 20 of my jobs to 95 like a noob. I went to WoE. So on the runs where I might not have received an OMGWTFBBQ loot pool it didn't break my heart because I was getting the xp I needed to get my jobs 90-95. It worked out well for me tyvm.

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Originally Posted by Zaknafein

These woe version's are fine for my less frequently used jobs, and didn't come with the added stipulation that I have to help on 2-3 other peoples weapons which is the norm for an empy static.

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yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ooooooooooooookayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

tell the nin/dnc that solo'd their kannagi they need a "2-3 other people"

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Originally Posted by Nynja

yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ooooooooooooookayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

tell the nin/dnc that solo'd their kannagi they need a "2-3 other people"

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So you're saying because ninja can solo Kannagi (to 85) every other Empy works the same way. That makes all sorts of logical sense. Jeez I was terribly confused. Ty so much for showing me the light.

Any empy can be duoed to 85 in a relatively short time frame with no risk, your average joe can easily abyssea xp a whm to 95 within 2 weeks and have their own pocket whm and 2box their own empy in a relatively short time frame. The only pressing matter is if they're too cheap to spend the 15$ a month.

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Originally Posted by Nynja

Any empy can be duoed to 85 in a relatively short time frame with no risk, your average joe can easily abyssea xp a whm to 95 within 2 weeks and have their own pocket whm and 2box their own empy in a relatively short time frame. The only pressing matter is if they're too cheap to spend the 15$ a month.

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OK since you have that all figured out why don't you, and your whm mule go duo some Empies. That way you won't need to cry about how unjust WoE is.

Now take yourself out of the equation, and let's look at the rest of the ffxi population. Not everyone out there wants to dual box. Not everyone out there wishes to commit to a static. Some people have already built an empy, or two, or more, and are sick to death of abyssea.

Those are the ones who this system appeals to. Worst case scenario the only thing the event needs (imo not till the next update) is a npc who converts coins at a ratio of 3 to 1.

Well you've got things figured out...you can say "anyone can upgrade 5 weapons at once in a short time", duh.

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Originally Posted by Nynja

Well you've got things figured out...you can say "anyone can upgrade 5 weapons at once in a short time", duh.

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If by that you mean can people spam flux 7 several times a day for a 3-4 week period, and have pretty good odds of collecting 30 of each coin... then yes.

Like you so eloquently broke down for me earlier I did about 120 runs in 24 days which netted me to date:

Birth 53
Advance 41
Glory 35
Decay 32
Ruin 31
and 35 dice which translated into a little over 11 mil total from $$$drops/dice

That wasn't even doing all my runs in 7 either. Did a fair amount in #9, the turtle one (#10 i think), 10 or so in #11, and 10 or so in #5. If all you're after is coins you can do 7 exclusively. Once an hour for a total of about 20 mins from entry, the walk up, and the kill. Leaving you the remainder of the game day to do laundry, wash the dishes, do homework.. w/e you wish b4 you pop in, and make your next 20 minute commitment.

so what you're saying is do more work for an inferior weapon, gotcha. high five. thanks troll :)


07: Chestnut log, Onyx, Mythril Ingot, Durium Ore, Light Opal

07 IS GREAT FOR COINS BRAH (thats me being fn frustrated over this stupid system...29/30, 7 runs later, still 29/30 cause theres no way to get the last coin other than hoping for the random number generator to be nice)