Another 2 Hour Suggestion.

A lot of talk about two hours, I thought I'd throw in my two cents on what's going down.

It would make sense if Overdrive wiped the overload effect if it's up, that way it could garner some extra usefulness as a bit of a saving technique, while being consistent with its name: Overdrive - Pushing the puppet and master beyond their limits (burden, overload, etc) and into full throttle, if only for a short burst of time.


Also, Overdrive only lasts a minute, a solid 30 to 60 seconds extra would be a great hand.

I've said it before, and will say it again: Make each maneuver count as 3 (not being able to go beyond that, so no point in having more than 2 of each), and extend the duration to 3 mins, and it becomes a very solid, and still not overpowered 2H ability.

Every time someone asked me "what's PUP's 2hr do?" I would respond "Cool shinny animation pretty much" and is not far from the truth really. Hell even extending the 2hr duration to 3 mins is not enough, look at BST's 2hr, it lasts till the charmed mob wakes up from charm.

I can't call Overdrive a 2hr it's more like an ability with a long arse timer. SE did it before with DRG, they fixed their 2hr and PUP suffered the same fame as DRG did back in the days it wouldn't go higher than a lolPUP mockery.

This should be a 15 to 20 min recast timer at least. If Overdrive would make the puppet actually be stronger it should give the puppet an insane amount of damage resistance similar to Alex's Perfect Defense while keeping the Overdrive's speed and power. And for God's sake let it last longer than 1 min come on....we can't do squash with 1 min.

With that being said they either FIX the 2hr or make it a JA and add a brand new 2hr because this is just ridiculous, I don't ever use it and I'm being serious I don't ever use Overdrive because it really has no use. BTW I know that BLUs also suffer from crappy-2hr-syndrome and even though I don't play BLU at all I know they got shafted just as bad.

Back to PUP, so you want a suggestion? Give each automaton body frame a specific trait/WS/Buff/whatever when 2hr is active...just throwing the "well Overdrive works for all puppets so whatever....too much work to do it so let's just do the 1-works-for-all method" is not gonna work, look at SMN they get Astral Flow but do avatars do the same when 2hr? No they each get a special BP that does something different. Why not do the same with each body frame?

Hell you don't even gotta do anything just give automatons 2hrs that already exist for example

Sharpshot frame - Eagle Eye Shot+Perfect Dodge
Valoredge frame - Mighty Strikes+Hundred Fist or Invincible
Stormwaker frame - Mana Font+Benediction or Chainspell

(lol OK I admit 2 in 1 is a bit too much but then again at least give them 1 don't you think?)

That's my little drop of water in the ocean right there.

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Originally Posted by Vangoh

Sharpshot frame - Eagle Eye Shot+Perfect Dodge
Valoredge frame - Mighty Strikes+Hundred Fist or Invincible
Stormwaker frame - Mana Font+Benediction or Chainspell

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lol I had that same exact idea last night, then I check the pup forums today and see this, except mine had different 2hrs for the spiritreaver/soulsoother heads, like soulsoother would have benediction and spiritreaver/manafont and instead of PD for sharpshot, my idea made it a bit too overpowered with EES+Meikyo Shisui

I've always thought Overdrive should lower maneuver recast by half or remove it completely. Overdrive already adds a little bit of haste to a puppet, and if you get 3 wind up with the Turbo Charger he swings pretty good. But you use half the Overdrive timer getting three wind up unless you planned it.

^ right, I think the main issue with overdrive is that it only lasts a minute, so by the time you triple up on a maneuver you're already halfway done with the two hour + your maneuvers are gone in the next minute.

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Originally Posted by TimeMage

I've said it before, and will say it again: Make each maneuver count as 3 (not being able to go beyond that, so no point in having more than 2 of each), and extend the duration to 3 mins, and it becomes a very solid, and still not overpowered 2H ability.

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Seconded.
Surprised you didn't get any like at all :(

What about an Omni Maneuver? Only usable during Overdrive, it counts as a maneuver of every element, but will not be consumed by attachments. Using Overdrive will charge the maneuver, and you get 1 charge at lvl 33, 2 at lvl 66 and 3 and lvl 99, charges expire when used or Overdrive expires.

Regular maneuvers can still be used to trigger specific effects such as weaponskills, spells and attachments (like Eraser).

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Originally Posted by Kristal

What about an Omni Maneuver?

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Sounds cool in theory, but in reality with the way Automatons work it would more likely create issues. Think about WS priorities, spell casting priorities (with certain maneuvers it prioritizes debuffs etc).
I'd rather have a powerup for the maneuvers that YOU select, personally.

(and also, would save me from the headache of finding yet another free space in my macrosets to create an Omnimaneuver macro :P)

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Originally Posted by Zhronne

Sounds cool in theory, but in reality with the way Automatons work it would more likely create issues. Think about WS priorities, spell casting priorities (with certain maneuvers it prioritizes debuffs etc).
I'd rather have a powerup for the maneuvers that YOU select, personally.

(and also, would save me from the headache of finding yet another free space in my macrosets to create an Omnimaneuver macro :P)

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Omni Maneuvers would not give priority to anything, you'd still need normal maneuvers for that.
It would however effect all the passive attachments, such as Regen, Attack, Defense, etc.

Lack of macro space is a bane to all pups, but you could always switch to a 2hr macro set :D

I love this idea!!!!! :)

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Originally Posted by Kagato

Puppetmaster - Overdrive - Augments the fighting ability of your automaton to its maximum level. Allows puppet to perform a 2hr based on his build (Invincible from a tank type, Manafont or Chainspell from a Mage type, Benediction from a Healing type, Eagle Eye shot from a ranger type, ect. Effect won't be as potent or last as long, however).

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Saw this in another thread and thought it might be worth mentioning:

Perhaps the above idea modified by adding the following:

(1) Percentage chance of automaton executing a respective 2hr depending on the type it is would increase over the course of the duration of Overdrive depending on it's remaining hit-points or a combination of the hit-points of the master and the puppet calculated and averaged to determine the percentage.

Overdrive itself would remain unchanged as far how it currently performs; it would still augment the abilities of the automaton, however the above modification would definitely make it a worthy 2hr.

Considering the above 2hrs are already in the game; it doesn't seem like it would require such a significant time sink to implement.

mmmm, thinking about it a bit, I decided to look at the other pet jobs' 2hours.

Beastmaster:
Familiar:
Duration: 30:00
- Cannot Extend duration of Call Beast familiars beyond their base duration
- Effect only active for one pet. When that pet dies/despawns, the effect ends, regardless of how much longer the duration has
Effects:
- Prevents a charmed pet from becoming uncharmed for the duration
- Increases pet HP by 10%; applies to both charmed pets and call beast
- Increases pet attack speed by ~25%
- Increases pet attack, defense, accuracy, and evasion by a "moderate" amount (quoted from wiki; moderate here is enough to be noticeable, given that anyone who does anything with bsts has seen the difference between the strength of a regular pet and a 2houred pet)

Summoner:
Astral Flow:
Duration: 3:00
Effects:
- All: Perpetuation cost reduced to 0
- Elemental Avatars, Carbuncle, Fenrir: moderate~large amount of AoE damage of the avatar's element, once every 45~60 seconds over the course of astral flow's duration, provided sufficient MP.
- Diabolos: Deals damage equal to a random % of the affected targets' HP, but is otherwise the same as the elemental avatars'
- Odin: AoE death. vs NMs, effect is changed to Damage based on smn's MP, either 10~20% of the target's HP, or 9999, whichever is lower, but this is applied before damage mods, so it can exceed 9999 damage. Astral Flow ends after its use, regardless of remaining duration.
- Alexander: AoE buff: Reduces damage taken and significantly reduces resistance to most status effects for 30~90 seconds depending on MP at time of cast; cannot be dispelled. Astral Flow ends after its use, regardless of remaining duration.

Dragoon:
Spirit Surge:
Duration: 1:00
- Dismisses Wyvern and prevents the wyvern from being resummoned until the effect wears off
Effects:
- Resets all jump recasts
- adds additional effects to Jump, High Jump, and Super Jump
- Increases drg's HP by ~15%, and heals the drg by an amount equivalent to the wyvern's HP at the time of usage
- Increases the drg's TP by the wyvern's TP at the time of usage
- Increases the drg's str by an amount based on their level (+19 at 90)
- Increases the drg's acc by a large amount
- gives the drg ~25% magic haste


Now, let's look at overdrive...

Overdrive:
Duration: 1:00
Effects:
- Grants immunity to overload, but does not remove overload if it's currently in effect
- give the automaton ~25% haste
- gives the automaton a small boost to attack, accuracy, evasion, and defense (not nearly as significant as familiar's boost. It's really hard to see the difference with/without 2hour on a puppet)
- gives the automaton a large resistance to most status effects



Ok, I'm not knocking bst/smn/drg's 2hours. They're all pretty awesome, really, and do shit you'd expect from a 2 hour recast "ohshit" button ability. That said, it's pretty obvious that ours doesn't... Overdrive is really just a watered down version of familiar. If pup played anything at all like bst does, I could understand that. The problem is that we don't. However, it is possible for them to modify the effects of a failure of a 2hour and give us a real 2hour. We know it is, they did it for drg. So, based off of that, pup's excessive stress on adaptability and versatility, and some ideas posted so far, here's what I've come up with for a real 2hour.

First:
Change overdrive to a 20 minute recast, and reduce the potency of it a bit (not much, it's hardly good enough to warrant more than a 20 minute recast as it stands).

New 2hour: a combination of things from familiar, astral flow, and spirit surge, but not an obvious copy of any one.
Name: I came up with a couple just for giggles; Climax, Show Stopper, Turning Point, Encore, Moment of Grandeur, Final Number, Grande Finale
Duration: 2:00
Effect: Augments Maneuvers
- while active, the potency of maneuvers relative to attachments is doubled (2 normal = 1 with 2hour up), the number of active maneuvers is reduced to a maximum of 2, and reduces the maximum number of identical maneuvers to 1 (if three maneuvers are active when used, the two with the longest duration will stay up, unless they are the same maneuver), and the recast of maneuvers is increased to 1:00. Additionally, attachments that consume maneuvers will still take effect as normal, but maneuvers will not be consumed.

- Augmented Fire Maneuver: Str increase tripled, gives the automaton a "regain" aura
- +3~5tp/tick regain to any party members within ~10 yalms

- Augmented Thunder Maneuver: Dex increase doubled, increases critical hit damage. gives a "potency" aura.
- 25% crit damage increase, +15~20% crit rate for party members within ~10 yalms.

- Augmented Earth Maneuver: Vit increase doubled, reduces damage taken; effect diminishes over time. Aura provides a lessened effect.
- think sentinel's damage redux, 90~100% reduction initially, but decays to no reduction over 60 seconds. Aura is 50% reduction in effect (45~50% start decaying over 60 seconds)

- Augmented Wind Maneuver: Agi increase doubled, increases attack speed, gives a "haste" aura
- straight up 25% haste. 10% JA haste aura for party members within ~10 yalms.

- Augmented Ice Maneuver: Int increase doubled, reduces spellcasting delay, gives a "fast cast" aura
- Reduces Global Recast to 5 seconds, grants the puppet 50% fast cast, 50%. Aura is 10% fast cast for party members within ~10 yalms. (note: it would also either have to halve the effectiveness of the manabooster attachment, or negate it outright, otherwise it would have to be more than 5 seconds, which really kills the effectiveness)

- Augmented Water Maneuver: Mnd increase doubled, negates mp cost, gives the automaton a "conserve MP" aura
- exactly what it says on the tin, plus negating the casting of aspir/aspir II while active; essentially telling the puppet to ignore its own MP all together. Aura isn't actually "conserve MP" but rather a static -5~10% mp cost for party members within ~10 yalms (dunno whether 5% would be to weak, or 10% would be to much)

- Augmented Light Maneuver: Chr increase doubled, gives the automaton a "regen" aura
- +4%hp/tick regen for any party members within ~10 yalms

- Augmented Dark Maneuver: attacks will recover HP based on the damage dealt, and gives the automaton a "refresh" aura
- applies to both melee and ranged attacks, but not WS. Refresh aura is +4%mp/tick for party members within ~10 yalms

Alternatively, allow only 1 maneuver and give the maneuvers triple potency instead of double. Obviously, the % bonuses are probably a bit excessive here, and could be toned down some, and not all of the Aura effects are really necessary (originally it was only regain, regen, and refresh, but I decided to add the others on a whim. It's not like SE's actually gonna read this and implement anything like it anyway.) I'd explain my thoughts behind what does what, but really, beyond "micro-2hours with reduced potency" I didn't really put a lot of thought into them, lol.

Like: A dampened form of Overdrive once every 10ish minutes. It would be much better than Cooldown at any rate.
Dislike: Some of the suggestions for two hours are a little too ridiculous. Keep in mind that some 2hr's in this game are still pretty timid (Blood Weapon, Eagle Eye Shot, Azure Lore.... Blood Weapon.) There were some really good concepts thrown in and around but most likely would only get in implemented in parts rather than as a whole.

Keep the ideas comin (I still say extend the duration at the very least)

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Originally Posted by Tetsujin

Like: A dampened form of Overdrive once every 10ish minutes. It would be much better than Cooldown at any rate.
Dislike: Some of the suggestions for two hours are a little too ridiculous. Keep in mind that some 2hr's in this game are still pretty timid (Blood Weapon, Eagle Eye Shot, Azure Lore.... Blood Weapon.) There were some really good concepts thrown in and around but most likely would only get in implemented in parts rather than as a whole.

Keep the ideas comin (I still say extend the duration at the very least)

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Start with the outrageous to rule it out, take what people like from the overpowered ideas, then tone those bits down to be more inline with other 2hours (ALL other 2hours, not the weakest 2hours like Overdrive is currently)

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Originally Posted by Theytak

Start with the outrageous to rule it out, take what people like from the overpowered ideas, then tone those bits down to be more inline with other 2hours (ALL other 2hours, not the weakest 2hours like Overdrive is currently)

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I like the way you think.