PUP/Automaton combo Weaponskill

Wouldn't it be cool, if PUP's had access to a "special" weaponskill that combined the TP of both player and automaton into a single crushing combo animation. Think Scott Pilgrim and that Chinese girl in "Scott Pilgrim vs. the World" movie.
This combo would be a 5 hit multi-strike, combining the accuracy of both.

As far as animation...hmm maybe a "whirling" move? Or "Fist of the Northstar" hundred fist? Or a "wolverine/colossus cannonball" move?

PUPs can already do very impressive solo skillchains with their pet. Victory Smite > Armor Shatterer for an 8-hit light skillchain for instance.

Your 'combo' would be weak compared to that.

Sorry my pup still low level.

even low level PUPs have access to skillchains. Slapstick > Combo is the first one available to you, creating impaction. I recommend you check out the list of PUP Solo Skillchains on the ffxiclopedia.org

I'm not talking solo skill chains. I just talking about a 6 hit animation that has BOTH pup and automatons doing something like a synchronized combo.

Think of it like this:

Activate JA: "Joint Operations"
You gain access to a new set of WS that requires 100+ tp on master and pet to use.

as cool as that sounds, i'm sure it would be very difficult to implement and and tough to balance out with standard weaponskill and skillchain combos currently set in to place. Also, there's not exactly a thorough way to keep your puppet above 100% without the Inhibitor, and if you're using the Inhibitor then you're already creating impressive skillchains with impressive damage.

Anything like what you're suggesting would need to deal higher damage in order to be worth using. Again, difficult to balance. Sure, it sounds cool and would probably look really flashy, but PUP has some other important balance issues to work out.

I will agree on the 'difficult to implement thing. It seems like anything that requires any form of new code is deemed as 'too hard'.

As far as 'balance'....what game do you play, because in the FFxi i play there is no class balance, you have 5 god classes and 15 others QQing that their class isnt one of the 5.

While not crazy about the idea, a way to implement it would be to take the drg/wyvern approach; where after the dragoon uses a ws the wyvern would use a breath consuming whatever tp it has.

So when the master uses <insert thematically appropriate ws name> the auto would use what tp it has to boost the damage without needing to also be at 100 tp. It could be a fun way to avoid magic mortar spam when tactical switch is down.

But I am expecting a new weaponskill for the stormwaker frame next update when it will reach 324 melee natively.

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Originally Posted by Dfoley

I will agree on the 'difficult to implement thing. It seems like anything that requires any form of new code is deemed as 'too hard'.

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It's 10 year old code that has been expanded and mutated over and over. Fix a bug, and something else falls over.
So yeah, any changes will have to be well-thought and thoroughly tested, and even then it's impossible to cover ALL of the game.

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As far as 'balance'....what game do you play, because in the FFxi i play there is no class balance, you have 5 god classes and 15 others QQing that their class isnt one of the 5.

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That must be an alternate dimension version of FFXI, because OUR FFXI has jobs, not classes.

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Originally Posted by Telford

While not crazy about the idea, a way to implement it would be to take the drg/wyvern approach; where after the dragoon uses a ws the wyvern would use a breath consuming whatever tp it has.

So when the master uses <insert thematically appropriate ws name> the auto would use its tp has to boost the damage without needing to be at 100 tp also. It could be a fun way to avoid magic mortar spam when tactical switch is down.

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The Cirque +2 set has Set: Attack occ. varies with automaton's HP. Perhaps something like that could be done with TP as well (but without consuming it.) Tactical Switch already allows us to use the automaton TP.

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But I am expecting a new weaponskill for the stormwaker frame next update when it will reach 324 melee natively.

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And yeah, I'm also looking forward to a new WS to replace Magic Mortar. 0 dmg weaponskills followed by a 0 dmg skillchain and SE doesn't even consider it a bug... hopefully the next WS isn't as gimmicky...

Harlequin has 325 skill natively at 90, and Stormwaker can get it easily with merits and gear. So I doubt 324 skill is the reason there's no new WS for those frames.

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Originally Posted by Kristal

It's 10 year old code that has been expanded and mutated over and over. Fix a bug, and something else falls over.
So yeah, any changes will have to be well-thought and thoroughly tested, and even then it's impossible to cover ALL of the game.

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Do you have anythng worth while to post? Cause posting common knowledge as a form of a reply would be the same as me replying with the name of my automaton is Mashera. While true, it is completely irrelevant

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Originally Posted by Kristal

That must be an alternate dimension version of FFXI, because OUR FFXI has jobs, not classes.

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Same with this, irrelevant correction is irrelevant, job or class, whatever you call it doesn't change the fact there is no such thing as balance and currently there are 5 jobs that are considerably better and more useful then the others.

The lack of balance doesn't justify creating more imbalance. Why try to douse a fire with more fire?
I'm just saying, SE doesn't need to create more things that will make people rage and be upset over. If it's not one thing to complain about, it's something else.

The point I was trying to make earlier is that current automaton/master combos already do immense damage, the only way to justify such an ability would be to create something stronger than the existing skillchain (or else the ability would be useless) and that would be a little broken in my opinion.

The suggestion about using TP under 100% to augment damage/effects is actually an interesting concept I like that.

Now that I think about it, I just realized something. Maybe the fusion weaponskill could be something usable only under the effects of Overdrive, hm? Not too hard balancing that (since it's a 2 hour effect) and the hardest part would be the immense coding and effort to put into it.

I just fail to see how it would be hard to balance...

Have you seen what sam and blu can do with the last 'little' job update they recieved?

Dont say something like this would be hard to balance, when obviouslly other jobs are getting rediculously over powered and broken abilities with no down sides.

An ability that prevents your pet from wsing at all wouild require almost no coding, and then just adding new WS to the master that only work when that JA is active also would require very little coding. The only tricky part would be in the wsc calculation, it would have to consider both master and pet TP...which i would be fine if acc was dependant on pet TP and dmg was dependent on master tp.

There is already code for dmg based on pets hpp, and we have pettpp, so its not like its 'huge ammounts' of code.

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Originally Posted by Dfoley

I just fail to see how it would be hard to balance...

Have you seen what sam and blu can do with the last 'little' job update they recieved?

Dont say something like this would be hard to balance, when obviouslly other jobs are getting rediculously over powered and broken abilities with no down sides.

An ability that prevents your pet from wsing at all wouild require almost no coding, and then just adding new WS to the master that only work when that JA is active also would require very little coding. The only tricky part would be in the wsc calculation, it would have to consider both master and pet TP...which i would be fine if acc was dependant on pet TP and dmg was dependent on master tp.

There is already code for dmg based on pets hpp, and we have pettpp, so its not like its 'huge ammounts' of code.

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The amount of ignorance on your part is staggering... do you know how hard it is to bugfix 10 year old code, let alone add new functionality to it? On top of that, balance those changes against other aspects of the game? AND deal with platform limitations?

Sigh you aren't only clueless but rude as well? What a shame.

9 year old code (released in may 2002) isnt any different then 2 day old code. As long as someone understands it... The only issue with FFXi is the self imposed limitations of what they can still add while supporting the ps2. Its not how hard it would be to code, but if its even possible without droping support for a giant chunk of the player base.

Other games (everquest 1...12 years old, march 1999) still release expansions with /gasp new zones, new ui's etc.

I'm actually working into the software industry and work with big projects. So I'd like to think I have more of an insight into these things then some googleknight.

Code doesn't mysteriously appear on the day of the release, so it's probably closer to 11 or 12 years. And even if the code is well documented and all changes properly managed, many of the original devs have been moved to other projects (like FFXIV.)

And yes, PS2 limitations cripple future additions, but that still doesn't make even the smallest change 'easy'. You fail to see how hard balancing is because you fail to 'see' at all.

But this discussion has gone on long enough, and has nothing to do with the OP's topic. /thread