spharai vs verethgna..

I am a Monk main and for the past few month i have been wanting both of these weapons. both are obtainable with large amounts of time and money. But i just wanted to have a thread to talk about which is better dmg wise.

Verethragna.

In abyssea
Vereth >>>>Rev Fists+2 >> Spharai

Outside

Vereth >> Spharai >> Rev+2

Verethragna kicks the crap out of Spharai.

Victory Smite is a crazy, high damage weaponskill. After your first Smite, you get the same double damage on normal hits that Spharai get.
Bonus! Verethragna is faster to get *IF* you have a small group of people willing to help you.

With the upcoming changes to dynamis it might be easier to get Spharai (it all depends on the drop rate tweaks ect.), but Verethragna would still beat them down.

from a dmg aspect Verethanga

Now if you asked me which i would take i would rather have Relic for my monk. Go watch a mnk with Relics tank stuff vs a mnk with Verethanga you'll see what i'm talking about. All in all if i could only have one it would be relics for sure. If you want VS i'd suggest maybe the WoE version if you just want VS for the times you want to bring the noise, but if you notice with mnk you are tanking alot of the time whether you want to be or not, so relics are better imo for a mnk. Verethanga are for the epeen people who want to go "OH MAN you see how much dmg that victory smite did" but remember this, VS is a crit hit WS and really gains its benefits inside abyssea from the use of GH, RR atma use. Outside abyssea good luck with getting consistant big numbers due to the lower chance of criting on your WS, and if SE's next plans for endgame action strays from abyssea gonna see alot of =( from people who's empyrean WS's rely on critical hit help from abyssea atma.

It's like masamune's suffering now is the complete opposite. Its one of the weaker empyrean ws in abyssea because it is not a crit hit ws like VS, JR, Hi, etc, but take that masamune outside abyssea and put it up against those crit hit ws's and at 100% tp watch masamune prevail over the verethanga's, the almace's, etc.

Dont forget that for empyreans the occassional deals double dmg is only during aftermath when relics have hidden effects of 2-3 times dmg always active.

So basically if you want a weapon for high powered WS's in abyssea so you can emo to your friends about your big number VS dmg then verethanga, but if you want truly the best weapon for a mnk its Relic hands down

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Originally Posted by Cream_Soda

In abyssea
Vereth >>>>Rev Fists+2 >> Spharai

Outside

Vereth >> Spharai >> Rev+2

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^ This from a damage perspective. VereMNK is just ridic with the damage. Relic adds a ton of Utility though, esp when you take away Atma. Spharai is one of the few Relics that still brings a lot to the table.

lvl 90 relic will be best, but its insane to think you will get it any time soon, so for now settle for the Emp Vereth.

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Go watch a mnk with Relics tank stuff vs a mnk with Verethanga you'll see what i'm talking about.

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You mean where they are both reaching the counter hard cap but Sphrai don't need gnarled horn for it, so they get to use VV and still get crushed in damage and have the same counter rate?

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VS is a crit hit WS and really gains its benefits inside abyssea from the use of GH, RR atma use.

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You won't get abyssea numbers, but you'll still stomp Spharai. Especially since impetus is critical hit rate and critical hit dmg w/ af3+2 body.

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Dont forget that for empyreans the occassional deals double dmg is only during aftermath when relics have hidden effects of 2-3 times dmg always active.

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yea because 5% chance all the time is better than 30-50% depending on aftermath level, lol. Aftermath isn't hard to keep up, either.

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but if you want truly the best weapon for a mnk its Relic hands down

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Except for the fact that even outside of abyssea, you can get within 10% of the counter rate hard cap and that Vereth still outdamage spharai outside of abyssea as well, just not by the landslide you get in abyssea.



If you have both, there are situations where you'd want to use one over the other and vice versa, but if you could only have one of the two, I'd go w/ Vereth hands down.

you think abyssea is the last addition to this game? 90-99 i'm assuming there gonna take the content outside of abyssea hopefully and if they did i'd take Relic over Emp any day. Like i said, if you want to pour out the dmg then yes Emp go go, if you want to increase you survival and help your mnk tanking Relic. Abyssea puts everyone into a dream world, take the game outside of abysssea where you aren't getting your atmas.

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Originally Posted by Superchicken

you think abyssea is the last addition to this game? 90-99 i'm assuming there gonna take the content outside of abyssea hopefully and if they did i'd take Relic over Emp any day. Like i said, if you want to pour out the dmg then yes Emp go go, if you want to increase you survival and help your mnk tanking Relic. Abyssea puts everyone into a dream world, take the game outside of abysssea where you aren't getting your atmas.

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So what do you lose w/ the atmas gone?

10% counter rate as far as defense goes and a lot of damage (but both weapons lose a lot of damage).

Again, you're still going to be able to get within 10% of the counter hard cap w/ both weapons.


Monsters outside of abyssea? Slow II and Elegy are going to be wanted again, which brings brd and rdm back into the picture.

Whm can get 5/tic base and 20/tic in atma. 25/tic.

Now we have no atma, but a brd and a rdm.

Refresh II 7/tic (w/ enhances refresh gear)

Ballad III + Ballad II (w/ enhance ballad gear that's not ghorn) 9/tic

5 + 9 + 7 = 21/tic.

Whms are still going to be bottomless pits of MP, even outside of abyssea.


While up to 10% counter is nice, for sure, it's not in any way shape or form going to be gamebreaking in favor of Spharai.

Let me put it this way.

Why do we have DD tanks in the first place? To deal damage while tanking. If we wanted 100% most survivability, there wouldn't be any tanks but PLD or fully eva geared evasion jobs that output little to no damage at all.

DDs are put on there because even though they're less survivable, you can still keep them alive.


If you find a mob where the 10% counter is going to be the diff between consistently winning a fight and consistently losing a fight, then you'll have a point on Spharai, but until then it's just what PLD tanks were. A saftey net. It has better survivability, but if you can survive with both, why not use the one that does more damage?

i prefer to do things with the least amount of people possible which means not always having those ideal support jobs in your party. Now, i've personnally played with both verethanga mnks and relic mnks in low man events and i personally like relic over verethanga. Good thing about freedom is we are all entitled to our opinions! I hear what you are saying and see your justification but again personally if someone said hey we'll give you a relic or empyrean h2h what do you want, i'd take relic cause you never know whats gonna get revamped with relics. But really i think it boils down to how you play monk and what kind of events you use it for.

The counter rate with relic over verethanga for low man / soloing / dual boxing a healer with you is more appealing to me.

Again to each his own and good luck on your adventures in acquiring whatever you choose

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The counter rate with relic over verethanga for low man / soloing / dual boxing a healer with you is more appealing to me.

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Well, if you're talking outside of abyssea, post lv 90, I hope they new content is going to be more challenging and require more than dual boxing to do. (which is where the support jobs I mentioned earlier come in)

If you're referring to inside abyssea, you can cap counter rate w/ vereth, so Spharai adds no extra utility there since you'll counter the exact same percentage with both weapons.

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Originally Posted by Cream_Soda

Whm can get 5/tic base and 20/tic in atma. 25/tic.

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Close. Whm can get 7/tic base.

owleyes 1
hairpin 1
WoTG earring 1
AF3+2 body 2
Brygid subligar 1
Serpentes set 1

not going to count refresh from subjob, or gear that requires you to be asleep/poisoned.

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Originally Posted by Protey

Close. Whm can get 7/tic base.

owleyes 1
hairpin 1
WoTG earring 1
AF3+2 body 2
Brygid subligar 1
Serpentes set 1

not going to count refresh from subjob, or gear that requires you to be asleep/poisoned.

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lol that only furthers my point. Thanks.

With the way the game currently is, Verethragna is the way to go. It currently out does Spharai in almost everything. The amount of work needed to get it isn't as bad as Spharai either. That's not to say Spharai is useless (I currently have a lvl 85 Spharai), but overall Verethragna is better.

looks like a tough call. but i see that spharai may be done as far as upgrades go. Looks like verethragna still has some potential left on upgrades. Even if its a crit hit ws i think even outside abbysea it should still do some sick dmg. With the new dynamis stuff coming out i think it will be alot easier to get currencies and what have you. So eventually getting both weapons is in my plans. p.s. Galka MNK FTW :P

Just curious what makes you think relic weapons are done with upgrades? SE has published statements saying that they plan to revamp both relics and mythics so that they can be more on par with empys. As for OP's question, spharai is better for defensive purposes and vere is better for offensive purposes, as of right now vere is easier to get and would compliment you better seeing as how well atmas make you a strong tank in abyssea, but if your concerned about next update then why not work on both? It's what I'm doing, I got Amanomurakumo in the works and both Caladbolg and Masamune goin atm, and I wont to add Ragnorok to that list but I can wait til after Amanomurakumo cuz relics at this point take awhile to build. So what it all boils down to is you can't predict the future but SE has plans to buff up our relics and mythics so keep that in mind on your decisions, and GL.

GLANZFAUST, i wish more monks had them

definetly aren't the best but they loooook soooooo badass :3

I wonder what the lvl 90 versions focus/dodge augments are.
Focus Iv: 10% atk/crit
dodge iv: 10% counter rate

Id definitly use it if I had it (won it in mog bonanza), although I would probably take the pup one over this one.

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Originally Posted by Cream_Soda

lol that only furthers my point. Thanks.

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To further it more, I think BRD can give 3 Ballad songs using Mythic Harp.