Raise the Minimum Requirement for entering Abyssea to Lv70 or 75

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Originally Posted by Akujima

Yes, I see the pattern. It's turning into what I expected: Leeches clinging on and sucking the life out of the thread.

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You still think this thread had life, or a chance. Until you realize that fallacy, you'll never improve as a person and just go through life thinking everyone that shuns your opinions has a character flaw. As far as sucking, I see a lot of it, but there's a certain irony when the leeches are required to say "Hey, you suck too much".

One thing you should know is I only have 2 jobs at 90 both 75 before abyssea with soloing my blu from 55 to 75. While I have leech my a couple of my more niche subs my main subes were 40+ before the first level increase. My drg was covered by my blu being 75 and my sam being 75. Took NIN to 46 long before it was anounced that we were getting 99 and my rdm was already 60. Main reason I don't have more is my drg was my first fav job and provided me with a fun solo job, and my current fav job blu is far more flexable and needed then anyother job I think I would enjoy at endgame.

Actually, to be fair Akujima, I gave every opportunity for life to be breathed back into this thread. All you had to do was respond to ANY of the numerous, valid and well substantiated points I made throughout. You ignored them all (even the non-troll ones), because they were contrary to what you believe.

A healthy discussion isn't a circlejerk where everyone hifives each other for everything they say. Those that ignore opposing views (or worse, those that somehow delude themselves into thinking they have beaten the opposition when that is CLEARLY not the case and make self proclamations of victory) aren't contributing at all, whether or not they started the topic.

While I was a bit rude with the google docs thing, and probably 3 dozen or more other comments, I genuinely think getting together with the (incredibly small) group of people who think like you might turn up some juicy topics for you to enjoy. You won't find that here because you represent a (ridiculously) small minority here.

And then after a fabulous get together with those like-minded individual resulting in a truly cathartic experience, you can all play "Let's count the rings on our straight-jackets" when the wards haul you off for happy med time. :)

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Originally Posted by Akujima

Yes, I see the pattern. It's turning into what I expected: Leeches clinging on and sucking the life out of the thread.

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Dude, where do you not get it that leeches aren't always bad.

Most people who leech and want to play a job (like myself, 30-90 WHM in a handful of hours) will read up on how to gear and play it efficiently. FFXIAH has forums where there are many people willing to tell you where you should go with your gear, and will give you help on macros. Macros can aslo be found on wikia or gamerscape. This group of people will leech a job and still play it better than tons of your 'legit' levelers. This is the majority of the people who truly enjoy the game.

The bad leeches will actually quit the game because they won't get enjoyment past getting all 90's since they don't know how to play; this is the minority.

Like I said before, no matter how much evidence you see you won't change your mind because you want to QQ just sooooooo badly.

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Originally Posted by Panthera

Depending on what you fight, you learn the fundamentals on experience points mobs. Even Imps teach that life-saving cures comes first, using negative status removal spells comes second, and buffing and debuffing after that. It teaches you to stay out of AOE if you're a mage, and other core concepts.

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Browsing quickly through the last pages of this thread, and I just have to comment on this.

Grinding exp in oldfashioned exp parties doesn't teach you the above. It's called common sense. If you know whichever mob you are fighting can use an AoE spell or move, you stay out of range when you're a mage. If you don't know - well you stay out of range anyway, just in case! And if you cast Blindna on the war when he's @ 25% hp instead of a cure, then you have no business being on whm or rdm. Funny thing is - I still see people do this today, people that I know have played whm or rdm since well before Abyssea. And coming across players on jobs that use some form of magic but don't carry something like echo drops, is almost a daily occurrence. Again, people that have been playing for a long time, maining something like pld (when that was still a relevant job).

Point is, grinding exp on pink birds and whatnot, doesn't teach you much if anything at all. Common sense and willingness to learn is what it's about.

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Originally Posted by Tamoa

Point is, grinding exp on pink birds and whatnot, doesn't teach you much if anything at all. Common sense and willingness to learn is what it's about.

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EXP is based on the idea of training and practice. The word "experience" by it's very definition cannot be argued.

People don't join the army with one physical and that's it. They're doing push-ups and ALOT more every single day in the army. It's called exercising your job. Most people don't pick up a guitar and play some Jimmy Hendrix flawlessly as their first song. People don't run marathons without a $#!% load of training beforehand. You may doubt these facts because this is a video game, but the same rule of thumb will still apply.

It's just self flattery to think that you're already a professional the minute you play a job at Max Lv for the first time.

I was a professional DD the minute I played it at max level because DDing isn't complicated.

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Originally Posted by Neisan_Quetz

I was a professional DD the minute I played it at max level because DDing isn't complicated.

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So then direct yourself over to rog's thread, about how FFXI is too easy.

Learning how to perform a role was never hard unless you were incompetent to begin with.

Being able to remove status ailments and keeping haste up, requires practice? Being able to sleep an add or 2, requires practice? Meleeing a mob, maybe turning if necessary, requires practice? Really? I'm sorry but I disagree, it only requires you to pay attention and use some of that common sense I mentioned before.

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Originally Posted by Tamoa

Being able to remove status ailments and keeping haste up, requires practice? Being able to sleep an add or 2, requires practice? Meleeing a mob, maybe turning if necessary, requires practice? Really? I'm sorry but I disagree, it only requires you to pay attention and use some of that common sense I mentioned before.

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You're claiming that your ability to perform these actions, has already reached its potential without any prior experience.

I think you can learn a certain amount from parties, I mean if you're nuking like hell, you're going to get hate so you'll learn to try and avoid hate even if it takes a few deaths to do so. But there's still plenty you can be ignorant towards, such as crowd control, when somebody in a party links the first thing I notice people try to do is leg it (and end up dying) or the party splits in two when there's at least one person in the party (usually me) who can sleep the mob. Even when I shout 'sleep', it doesn't necessarily sink in and they attack the mob. I'm the experimental type, so I take advantage of parties to experiment (without detriment to the party), but I realise not everybody is the experimental type. I find if I am experimental then at least I'm creating my own play style and people have no need to tell me how to play my job.

NMs can be good practice, I don't think levelling up the slow way will teach you the best way to help a party kill a NM, as a mage not only is it important that people stay alive and keep their health up but that status effects are removed and your MP is kept up and you've got to be tactical about everything. If you're just nuking or just healing in an exp party then you're not going to necessarily perform brilliantly well, which you can pretty much get away with in any exp party. I think with any job a person should practice with it and learn what they can do and how they can do it. I don't think whether it matters if you do an exp party and experiment that way or leech to 90 first and do it. Personally I found the former easier, but each to his own. I think both scenarios can create people who don't know how to play their job properly.

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Originally Posted by Akujima

You're claiming that your ability to perform these actions, has already reached its potential without any prior experience.

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Prior experience with what? The job? Or whatever it is that you're fighting?

You don't need experience in casting Paralyna if you are playing whm and you see "Monster starts casting Paralyga", or "Player is paralyzed". You don't need experience in casting CureV if the war's hp bar is @ 50%. You don't need experience in playing mnk or any other DD job to be able to turn if you see "The cockatrice readies Baleful Gaze". You don't need experience in playing blm to cast Stun if you see "Apademak starts casting Thunder V". You may need some experience in fighting the specific mobs/NMs, or read up/ask about them before the fight, but that's hardly the same thing.

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Originally Posted by Tamoa

Prior experience with what? The job? Or whatever it is that you're fighting?

You don't need experience in casting Paralyna if you are playing whm and you see "Monster starts casting Paralyga", or "Player is paralyzed". You don't need experience in casting CureV if the war's hp bar is @ 50%. You don't need experience in playing mnk or any other DD job to be able to turn if you see "The cockatrice readies Baleful Gaze". You don't need experience in playing blm to cast Stun if you see "Apademak starts casting Thunder V". You may need some experience in fighting the specific mobs/NMs, or read up/ask about them before the fight, but that's hardly the same thing.

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If you're fighting specific mobs/NMs there will always be a first time, so you will be inexperienced. So a level of what you'll be doing is without prior experience, and reading up on them is therefore necessary as you say. I do it before any NM, "Paralyga", "Doom", "Petrify", I can automatically know how important my -na spells will be having never done the fight.

Different people will have several levels of intelligence.
For a smart player, no, they are not going to learn anything about playing a job in a shitty exp party. They already know this information from playing their other jobs and reading etc.
For the mildly intelligent player, they probably won't learn much about playing a job in an exp party. They have experience from their other jobs etc.
For retarded players, they won't learn anything about playing a job in an exp party. They're too stupid to learn anything.

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Originally Posted by Khiinroye

Since you have said that these points have been addressed, I guess we can assume that you have no real response to them and have therefore conceded them.

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With all due respect, what's going to be ignored are your arguements if you start shouting.

Italics are great, bold if you must if you can use restraint. An exlamation mark is fine when it's called for, but as Roger Ebert said, the only time he's ever used three exlamation marks in his entire career are when he talked about Megatron in the original live action Transformers, because Megatron is just a three exlamation mark kinda guy. All joking aside, the use of caps is shouting, and bold caps far worse.

Further, not everything and everyone in the thread are worth replying to. Some are merely trolls. Some posts don't just have flawed logic, they have no logic at all; there's just nothing to reply to. Some, and by no means all, are so poorly written they aren't worth taking seriously, that putting effort into a reply when they didn't put any in in the first doesn't make much sense. Further, some are so abrasive and dismissive in tone that they're just trolling, trying to the same angry, shouting reaction from you that it's just best to put them on ignore list, and OP would do well to heed this. Some of your points are good and worth addressing, but I can do without the shouting.

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Originally Posted by Khiinroye

My definition of cheating in terms of leveling is using third party programs to do your levelling for you (people do use curebots, so this is actually there), or altering your character data to fix your level at whatever you want it to be. Buying accounts is cheating. Keying boxes does not meet this definition, therefore it is not cheating.

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I'm really glad you brought this up.

Your meaning of cheating ignores the meanings plural of the word cheating. You are absolutely correct that third party leveling programs are cheating, and I'm glad that you recognize that. Similarly, do-nothing leeching is cheating because the leveling doesn't represent the leech's own work. Is there really anyone who is actually in favor of that? But you were talking about keymasters, and I'll address that.

Low-level keymastering is cheating because you're not leveling up in a way specific to or supported by your job, as I've said, as well as other definitions as well, which I've also already explained. Again, just becuase you aren't cheating according to one meaning, doesn't mean you aren't cheating according to others.

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Originally Posted by Khiinroye

Using third party programs to choose what fish you hooked and instantly set its hp to 0 is cheating. Being able to see VNMs while they're still in their unaggrod state is cheating. RMT is cheating. See, I can define terms to my benefit, too, and mine is closer to SE's definition.

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You do have a reasonable, but not infallible, grasp on what cheating is conceptually. However, I never defined the term cheating. The meanings plural of the word cheating were around before I used them. According to a dictionary website:...

cheat   
[cheet] Show IPA
–verb (used with object)
1.to defraud; swindle: He cheated her out of her inheritance.
2.to deceive; influence by fraud: He cheated us into believing him a hero.
3.to elude; deprive of something expected: He cheated the law by suicide.

I merely applied the definitions and the concepts to explain why leeching is cheating, and they're a perfect fit, if I may say. The real problem is that SE's rules for what cheating is and is not don't address what cheating really is in this context. You want to be closer to what cheating actually means, not what SE thinks it is, as they may not necessarally be close. Again, if there were a body-building competition, and for whatever reason, the use of steroids were explicity allowed, that doesn't mean that those who take steroids aren't cheating, and that doesn't meant they aren't cheating
those that don't use them. This is a key point, because keymasters don't just cheat, they cheat me and those who level in real way. In this analogy, the rules just don't make sense, as they don't support what cheating is conceptually. Again, just because it isn't against the rules, doesn't mean it's not cheating.

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Originally Posted by Khiinroye

I leveled my rng from 20 to 56 via campaign ops and xp scrolls. Did I cheat by doing that? I sure didn't go out and get oldschool xp parties.

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You haven't completely made a connection between the two. I am not obligated to make your arguements for you. You tell me? How and why are doing those not cheating by definions (plural now!) and how does that make keymastering not cheating, and why? I'd like to know.

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Originally Posted by Khiinroye

As to the RPG element; Sure, xp is a key factor in all of them. But when you have one character that you want to use to do something different, do you take him through all the areas in the game that you've been through and catch him up like that? No, you slap him in the party with your top characters, go to the spot in the game where the monsters give a ton of xp, and use your strong characters to tear through them like paper and skyrocket your weak character's levels.

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Yes, this would level up the characters quickly. But in those games, the weaker characters aren't opening chests, and I'm pre-supposing they were participating in the battle by fighting monsters, or being fought by them. Again, chests don't try to kill you, that's part of why it's leeching and therefore cheating.

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Originally Posted by Khiinroye

Some RPGs even level your characters while they're out of party (e.g. Chrono Trigger).

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It is my assessment that yes, those characters were do-nothing leeches, that much should be obvious. The experienced gained by the lower level members did not reflect their own work at all. And I'm interested to know if you think do nothing leeches are OK, as you've only addressed keymasters specifically, but not do-nothing leeches. It would seem to be, but I'd like to hear that from you. You cannot say that they aren't leeching and therefore aren't cheating in the one and not the other.

That the game has it built-in doesn't mean it isn't cheating. Using a non RPG game analogy, there's Warp Whistles in Mario 3, the original Super Mario had warp pipes, etc. Activision's famous cheat codes, supported by the game by design, are still cheats! They don't pretend that they're not. They are short-cuts that completely evade, they are cheating. There's a funny bit about this on College Humor that explains it. http://www.collegehumor.com/video/61...-warp-whistles

It's not that you got to the final level of Mario(and notice how we're still talking about "levels"), it's how you got there. Suppose the game supported warping from the first level to the last. There's a difference between saying,"I saw the Super Mario Credits," which isn't really winning, and "I beat every single level of of Super Mario."

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Originally Posted by Khiinroye

Being able to use strong characters to level weak characters has always been a part of many games in the genre, even in SE games.

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That still doesn't mean that the near-convention isn't cheating. If most body building competition explicitly allowed steroids as a convention does't mean it's not cheating in each and every instance.

As I've said before, this game, Final Fantasy XI, actually makes it so that characters who are lower level than the highest party member are penalized in exp, and as far as monster exp goes, it's the same way in Abyssea as well, to the best of my knowledge. Given the penalty, I'd say SE actually discourages this in the context of FFXI exping. I'd like to hear from SE why level 30 characters, who's negligible contribution to a battle against a monster that's almost level 100 should be allowed to get 5000 experience points for a whopping 5 mobs. Why have an exp level difference penalty in some cases, but not others? It's inconsistent.

I really appreciate that you brought this up. You don't evade what RPGs are, you address it intelligently. I've enjoyed this exchange, Khiinroye. I eagerly await your rebuttal.

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Originally Posted by Tamoa

Browsing quickly through the last pages of this thread, and I just have to comment on this.

Grinding exp in oldfashioned exp parties doesn't teach you the above. It's called common sense.

If you know whichever mob you are fighting can use an AoE spell or move, you stay out of range when you're a mage. If you don't know - well you stay out of range anyway, just in case! And if you cast Blindna on the war when he's @ 25% hp instead of a cure, then you have no business being on whm or rdm.

Funny thing is - I still see people do this today, people that I know have played whm or rdm since well before Abyssea. And coming across players on jobs that use some form of magic but don't carry something like echo drops, is almost a daily occurrence.

Again, people that have been playing for a long time, maining something like pld (when that was still a relevant job).

Point is, grinding exp on pink birds and whatnot, doesn't teach you much if anything at all.

Common sense and willingness to learn is what it's about.

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(My bold)

Common sense really means one of two things: good judgement, or intuition. Someone standing in front of a door where people are trying to walk in and out of showing no "common sense," to mean that they are showing poor judgement.

In the sense that common sense is "intuition," I don't believe there's such a thing in this context. Man and many creatures are born as a Tabula Rasa, a blank slate, knowing absolutely nothing. A baby deer will walk right up to a predator, as its mother watches on in terror. The baby deer has no way of knowing that the predator is about to have an easy meal. The mother deer knows because she's seen it before. No one knows what AOE is until they've learned it either from reading about it, or from experience, no one "just knows to stay out of AOE because it's common sense."

Colibri do not teach you everything, but it's hyperbolic to suggest that's the only anyone has ever fought in their entire job leveling career. If they did, this is a case where the process has failed the player. If the player doesn't learn from opportunities, then the player has failed the process. The leveling path is still supposed to prepare players for end game by giving them the fundamentals. It is about good judgement and willingness to learn, and I would add, the ability to learn.

I appreciate your contribution nevertheless, Tamoa.

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Originally Posted by Akujima

You're claiming that your ability to perform these actions, has already reached its potential without any prior experience.

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Actually, Tamoa is claiming that it doesn't take that long to learn these basic actions at all.
And I agree with him.
It doesn't take that long to learn these basic actions, specially for a new player since all it needs a little explaining and being able to pay attention for the right times.

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Originally Posted by Panthera

(My bold).

You're contradicting yourself. Here's why.

To paraphrase, what you say're is that having a pre-ToAU was an accomplishment in an absolute sense. Post-ToAU, it was no longer an accomplishment in an absolute sense. Then you say that because of various factors, things that used to be accomplishments are less so now in a relative sense. You can't have it both ways. They have to be either accomplishments then but not now, or big accomplishments then and smaller accomplishments now, but not both. As an aside, saying "worth nothing" qualifies the accomplishment to be as as naught for it to have value, in an absolute vs. relative sense.

It was never my contention that getting to 90 didn't get easier over time; I understand that perfectly. clearly it did. Getting a 75 pre ToAU was a bigger accomplishment than post, but it was still an accomplishment. Getting to 90 by leveling ones job in a way specific to or supported by that job in Abyssea is less so, but still has some value. Standing around AFK is not an accomplishment at all, such that it takes away from the meaning of having a 90 from those who put forth effort.

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Please go back and read my argument again because you misread it. I never said having a max level character was worth nothing, I said it wasn't worth noting, I never made a statement in the absolute sense it was all relative. I never contradicted myself, your lack of reading comprehension created the perceived contradiction. I merely stated the reasons why what used to be an accomplishment will become much less of one with the natural progression of games of this nature.

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Originally Posted by Pharaun

Please go back and read my argument again because you misread it.

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Very well then.

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Originally Posted by Pharaun

As for Panthera and his assertion that hitting max level was an accomplishment, it hasn't been an accomplishment to have a max level character since ToAU at the latest if not earlier.

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Now, here, what you're saying is that it's not an accomplishment, period. You didn't say less of one, more of one, or just as much of one. You said not an accomplishment, full stop. You don't seem to know what "not an" means. Had your sentence said,"As for Panthera and his assertion that hitting max level was an accomplishment, it hasn't been as much of an accomplishment to have a max level character pre-ToAU than post TaOU at the latest if not earlier," then that would mean that it was relatively less of an accomplishment, and a contradiction would not have existed, because even without the bit about "worth noting," it was clear that you meant that in a relative sense. One was absolute, the other was relative, you contradicted yourself.

It's not up to me to go back from the second paragraph to figure out what you meant by the first, but your responsiblity to make yourself clear from the get-go. I understood what you actually said clearly. What I did not understand was what you meant. Any misunderstanding on my end has nothing to do with a presumed lack of reading comprehension on my end. It's because of an inability to say what you mean accurately and clearly on your end. And when I did say you were contradicting yourself the first time, I managed to do so without sounding rude. I was courteous the first time, I don't owe you that now, and I can no longer be bothered with you.

@panthera
You are using the 'accomplish' of leveling as a way to assign value to the end result, a functional level 90 character with respectably leveled skills and knowledge of how the job they leveled works by way of the leveling process. You consider a bad level 90 character who has leveled by traditional means more of an accomplishment than a good level 90 character that was leveled by some other way.

The end result either has value or does not regardless of the means of leveling. What is your answer to players who are better at their jobs than others, and reach level cap faster even using more traditional means? Players who don't have capped skills despite being active in a party? On one hand you try to place importance on learning a job, but leveling faster gives you less time to do that. Learning any job in this game is easily offset by doing outside research, and I argue that outside research is in fact a much better learning tool than leveling by traditional means. By researching a job or game mechanics we achieve the same 'accomplishment' as leveling, and more so, in a shorter time frame. We learn more valuable skills than grinding out experience points can ever teach us.

The PLD story I spoke of earlier is not made up. I brought it up because it proves a point. Your definition of cheating can be applied to every single person who plays this game, even you. It is a loose employment of the term that is subject to assessment by the governing body of this game. SE holds all rights over the game environment, and as such what they deem allowable is in effect 'not cheating' in their game. That they have not outright condoned it doesn't matter. They continue to alter other aspects of the game to allow even more methods of fast leveling, even below level 30. These methods also allow for characters to 'leech'. If you truly believe that SE didn't intend for people to 'leech' in Abyssea, that it was an oversight on their part, what is your answer to recently released content? Community reps have responded in several of these topics, it's safe to assume that they are aware of our actions in game.

I'd also like you to answer me one more question. You claim to not allow people below a certain level in your parties. Who opens chests? Do you have a level 90 character with capped merits on all his jobs just for that? Or do you let people temporarily cheat so that you can get chests? After all, opening chests is 'leeching', 'leeching' is cheating. People will miss out on the accomplishment of learning new skills above 75, or whichever level you arbitrarily decided wasn't cheating anymore.

And by the way, I own all three of my accounts. I started the first one in December of 2003. I started the second with an Ultimate Edition game key from Steam when Abyssea came out, and I started the third this month from an UE - Abyssea copy. I started the second because I purchased a second laptop, I started the third because I built a new desktop. I'm running my three accounts on three different machines. You mention that I made my arguments without resorting to name calling, yet you use petty offhanded remarks in an attempt to discredit me? Nice try. That's your moral outrage showing.

You guys don't realize why you are upset. Ask yourself this; Is there any reason to be any level besides 90?

If there was meaningful content to explore at lower levels or tangible rewards for getting to 90 on multiple jobs then yes there would be a valid excuse for raising the required level for entrance. Until then quit pissing and moaning about how you spent a year leveling THF to 75 so everyone else should too.

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I mean if you're nuking like hell, you're going to get hate so you'll learn to try and avoid hate even if it takes a few deaths to do so.

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Perfect example of how exp parties actually do more harm than good. Over nuking in exp is not a good idea. At 90 however, you simply hit manawall and keep nuking. What works in exp does NOT necessarily apply at 90.

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Originally Posted by rog

Perfect example of how exp parties actually do more harm than good. Over nuking in exp is not a good idea. At 90 however, you simply hit manawall and keep nuking. What works in exp does NOT necessarily apply at 90.

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This is pretty much always the case. EXP'ing teaches you how to EXP, not how to play FFXI.

Maat's Cap players pre-SMN burn were notorious for being some of the absolute worst players in the entire game because they tried to apply their EXP playstyle to Endgame and refused to listen to anyone else.

Don't you know? Maat's Cap means you won the game and clearly you cannot be wrong. Geez, GG, I thought you were the smart one.

That aside, I'm in general agreement with the crowd that's against raising the level minimum for Abyssea. Sure, you don't get the "traditional" way of learning your job, but that hasn't slowed me down once. Even back then, I didn't learn the job by mindlessly grinding and repeating the same actions over and over and over; I asked my linkshell for advice, or other party members if they've played the job. In fact, the only good thing old-school parties did for me was hook me up with five other characters who might have leveled my job and might have some modicum of skill in it, so that I could talk to them and learn how to do better, or give advice myself.

My point is, we can learn from grinding, yes, but it's a slow, experimental process that's more likely to get you killed than not. On the other hand, learning from other players, asking advice, etc is the fastest and quickest way to learn a job, as well as buffering that with research so you don't get things like Naturebeckles's take on Haste that we've seen on this forum. I remember that I thought TA only worked on party members for a while, not the whole ally, because I was told that. ;(

So yeah. Raise the minimum? Two thumbs down, down, down.

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Originally Posted by Kensagaku

Don't you know? Maat's Cap means you won the game and clearly you cannot be wrong.

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This is the only thing that matters, amirite?

Whether xp is an "accomplishment" is irrelevant, fyi @ aki and panthera and anyone else who wants to keep yapping about it.

Even if xp was still the hardest grind ever, that doesn't automatically mean everyone has to take part in it just because you get the enjoyment out of the accomplishment as well. As I stated before, people care more about gear, crafting, lolchocoracing, even ballista for some.

No one here is going to call you a cheater and a n00b just because you don't participate in pankration. But some take great pride in their little mob.

Oh and yes because of that one arena being broken, you could "leech" your pet to cap level. More power to them I say.

Again it's about the choice. You want to take pride in your xp and jobs? Go for it. Do not then insist everyone has to partake in what many consider a headache.


More to the point, care about your accomplishments because you care about them, not for personal glory in making sure as many people know about it as possible. You know you did it, that should be enough.

Ultimately no MMO is really complicated. It's not how you maintain a player base. Really, anyone who is telling themselves they're pro at a MMORPG is just grasping for something to be proud of. Sitting at your computer desk or on your couch for long hours, mashing keys and controller buttons is not what I call impressive, boys and girls. We like to play pretend and all that crap, but let's step out of character for a moment and be realistic here. No one outside of this game cares about you or what you're doing in FFXI. It is more or less 7 billion people minus 3-500,000 FFXI players that couldn't care less how fast you mash keys during a Byakko solo. You're not really pro. You're not impressive except to those who never learned how to use a keyboard. You're just a normal Joe or Jane Doe in this world in this vast universe of worlds that exist.

So, are we done here? Can we move on already? Is this thing on? They are NEVER going to raise the entry level to Abyssea. It is tied to add on sales. NEVER. End of story.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

I'm curious.

How good are you at FFXI? How well do you know the game, and fundamental mechanics?

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He can't be that great. With all his talk about lvling jobs, being honest, expecting when you invite people to have basic things like skill he never even finished most of his merits...

http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Unicorn/Panthera#merits

I don't understand why people believe that exping is the most important part of the game. Personally, I try to avoid exping as much as possible, even the current Abyssea leeching trend. I'd rather be doing other things.

Why am I not surprised to see a Maat's Cap and all jobs levelled? They are not skill-based achievements, just time based...

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Originally Posted by RaenRyong

Why am I not surprised to see a Maat's Cap and all jobs levelled? They are not skill-based achievements, just time based...

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also a manthra. And he talks of others being dishonest.

So, even though I know how to play WHM on my Main, if I bring my burned alt's WHM to events, I'm suddenly unable to play WHM on it just because he was burned to 90? Hell, he has better WHM gear than my main.

The thing that I find most amusing is that according to his AH profile he doesn't have a single piece of AF3 at all, not NQ, not +1, and not +2.

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Originally Posted by Sayelle

The thing that I find most amusing is that according to his AH profile he doesn't have a single piece of AF3 at all, not NQ, not +1, and not +2.

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That does not really mean anything.

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Originally Posted by rog

That does not really mean anything.

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because it doesn't take xp to get!


it all makes sense now.

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Originally Posted by Catsby

You guys don't realize why you are upset. Ask yourself this; Is there any reason to be any level besides 90?

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One of the two main reasons this game is dying, and is only kept going on life-support because XIV is a functional zero.

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Originally Posted by Catsby

If there was meaningful content to explore at lower levels or tangible rewards for getting to 90 on multiple jobs then yes there would be a valid excuse for raising the required level for entrance. Until then quit pissing and moaning about how you spent a year leveling THF to 75 so everyone else should too.

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The problem is, then: Why even have any other content? Why even have levels 1 to the level cap minus one?

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Originally Posted by Starcade

One of the two main reasons this game is dying, and is only kept going on life-support because XIV is a functional zero.



The problem is, then: Why even have any other content? Why even have levels 1 to the level cap minus one?

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That level up animation is what keeps me paying my 13 bucks a month. It starts of kind of soft and then gets dramatic like
do-do-do-do DO DO do-do-do!

Ohwait, I'm not Akujanthera. I never really liked that animation and realize the lack in value leveling up holds for me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Starcade

One of the two main reasons this game is dying, and is only kept going on life-support because XIV is a functional zero.



The problem is, then: Why even have any other content? Why even have levels 1 to the level cap minus one?

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Even at 75 cap most content was geared toward level 75... the only low level content I can think of was Eco-warrior, Garrison, and BCNMS. Campaign wasn't introduced until WotG and you still weren't useful in it on most jobs until at least 60ish.

Does anyone remember this thread?

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...-to-Lv70-or-75

I still think it's hypocritical to demand that players grind their exp when you allow pets to just enter and leech.

Akujima: "Dude Panthera I'm so glad you got your Ph.D. so we can pwn these guyz in the thread."

Panthera: "Dammit Jim, I'm not a doctor!"

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Originally Posted by Romanova

He can't be that great. With all his talk about lvling jobs, being honest, expecting when you invite people to have basic things like skill he never even finished most of his merits...

http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Unicorn/Panthera#merits

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(Disclaimer: Don't agree with Panthera) However: Thanks for the idiotic post. He doesn't have max merits because he hasn't necessarily bothered to update his ffxiah.com profile, amirite? Do I get a cookie for basing my post on something potentially untrue by passing it off as hard fact? (In case you didn't get the memo, you have to manually edit your merits on ffxiah.com, thanks for the most pointless post in a pointless thread full of pointless words).

I'm going back over there to go back to sleep.