FINAL FANTASY XI Job Adjustmentｓ Manifesto [Blue Mage]

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Originally Posted by Atoreis

Thunderbolt is new Charged :)

Damage is a little lower but stun that comes with it let you cast it w/o recasting and debuffs/buffs after dream flower and just finish with whirl of rage. It's just faster. Can also just do thunderbolt > charged ^^

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Or you could save yourself even the first Dream FLower and one shot the pull with Charged Whisker. Thunderbolt replaces nothing.

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Originally Posted by Prothscar

Or you could save yourself even the first Dream FLower and one shot the pull with Charged Whisker. Thunderbolt replaces nothing.

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Indeed, I've only just started building a CW set, and already I'm doing 4000+ DMG, and I've seen people do upto 7000 DMG.

Absolute Terror - hope it has a quick cast time and long duration or else it won't be used.

Gates of Hades - I really want this to be our next CW as well or use it for its nice burn effect.

Pyric Bulwark - This is the spell I have my highest hopes for. I would like to see something with a long cast time, long duration (5 min?), and have it prevent a certain number of hits per skill. Course, that's just me dreaming... How about a new stoneskin for just physical dmg that can be combined with Magic Barrier if you wanted. Hmm, but this might just be another useless UL spell we'll learn. I can't wait to hear about more possible blu spells. Keep them coming, Camate!

-edit: Also, wouldn't mind a strong 5 min phalanx

I think we can just call it now and say that all three new spells are going to be underwhelming if the last update was any indication.

They won't or can't give us anything nearly as good as the HNM moves, so I'm expecting:

Gates of Hades: low-damage fire AOE and 10/tic Burn effect.

Absolute Terror: very low mag-acc Terror with long cast time and a duration of 2 secs on some trash mobs and less on all others.

Pyric Bulwark: Stoneskin that is a little worse than RDM Stoneskin.

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Originally Posted by Demonofhunger

I think we can just call it now and say that all three new spells are going to be underwhelming if the last update was any indication.

They won't or can't give us anything nearly as good as the HNM moves, so I'm expecting:

Gates of Hades: low-damage fire AOE and 10/tic Burn effect.

Absolute Terror: very low mag-acc Terror with long cast time and a duration of 2 secs on some trash mobs and less on all others.

Pyric Bulwark: Stoneskin that is a little worse than RDM Stoneskin.

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This is better than what DRK gets, we don't even have a move with Terror in the name.

I don't mean to sound ungrateful, but you guys can keep absolute terror. We already have an underpowered terror spell we never use that dose not share the unbridled learning slot with other effective spells. I would rather see the dev team spend their valuable time making old spells more useful than adding replacements that are also never used. Furthermore Player character terror is little more than a variant stun, which needs to be quickly accessible to be useful, yet wont be with a job ability standing between the urgency of it's use and when you are actually able to cast it -stuns have to be fast.
As far as other spells from wyrms go, I think it will be a let down for a lot of people if it is anything except the mighty and dreaded spike flail we get at 99. People have been dreaming of and joking about that one since 75.
I am also curious: what will make pyric bulwark distinct with harden shell already available and not make one of those two redundant?

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Originally Posted by Tennotsukai

Absolute Terror - hope it has a quick cast time and long duration or else it won't be used.

Gates of Hades - I really want this to be our next CW as well or use it for its nice burn effect.

Pyric Bulwark - This is the spell I have my highest hopes for. I would like to see something with a long cast time, long duration (5 min?), and have it prevent a certain number of hits per skill. Course, that's just me dreaming... How about a new stoneskin for just physical dmg that can be combined with Magic Barrier if you wanted. Hmm, but this might just be another useless UL spell we'll learn. I can't wait to hear about more possible blu spells. Keep them coming, Camate!

-edit: Also, wouldn't mind a strong 5 min phalanx

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They wont give a spell that lasts the full time of the JA recast, it'd be 3 minutes at most.

Also they gave their version of a Phalanx last update, they wont add another. I'm still calling a ~500dmg Stoneskin.

Forget the terror effect just give the players what we want "Spike Flail", S. Lunge is enough for me without any gimmicks and consistently lands on any mob with a nice duration. This UL JA is quickly becoming a "joke".

If it works on high tier NMs, that would be nice.

I know I can't get S-Lunge to work on Apademak.

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Originally Posted by Kwate

Forget the terror effect just give the players what we want "Spike Flail", S. Lunge is enough for me without any gimmicks and consistently lands on any mob with a nice duration. This UL JA is quickly becoming a "joke".

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I don't want Spike Flail it'd end up being rubbish, I'd rather it stay a pipe-dream.

Enough with the 5 min recast interrupts already. I can already AoE stun weak mobs with one of several spells without burning a 5 minute JA, trying to stun anything of consequence with Thunderbolt or Absolute Terror is largely impractical because anything that needs to be stunned will have already gone off by the time you're halfway through casting the spell, if not by the time you've gotten out of JA lock. Even if you give Terror a decent cast time as opposed to Thunderbolt, you're still looking at an interrupt with a minimum 1.5 second cast time. You could pop Unbridled Learning the moment it comes up, but it only lasts a minute and if you really need the spell that badly what are you going to do for the remaining 4 minutes? I thought Temporal Shift was bad with its 2 minute recast but frankly this is ridiculous.

There could be something we aren't seeing here as well, the spell itself gives terror but there are no descriptions based on Camates post. What if it had an additional effect like hate reset, similiar to horrid roar. That could be useful haha. (hate reset for the BLU only, obviously)

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

We'd consider the Pixie special abilities Spring Breeze, Summer Breeze, Autumn Breeze, and Winter Breeze, but they are too powerful, so they are pretty unlikely to be implemented.

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I'm sorry, but this is a completely unintelligent argument against implementing spells. We all know SE is able and capable of changing spells around to avoid "overpowering" Blue Mages. Take the following scenarios for example:

Example: Exuviation

• Player effect: Restores HP and removes one detrimental magic effect.*
• Enemy effect: Full Erase. Restores HP based on amount of debuffs it erased from itself.*

Example: Blazing Bound

• Player effect: Deals fire damage to an enemy.*
• Enemy effect: Deals Area-of-Effect fire damage + Burn.*

*From: http://ffxi.gamerescape.com/wiki/

Once again, this excuse is lame and lacks total credibility. If SE does not want to include any Pixie spells, that is their prerogative; just come out and say it. But don't pretend we're idiots with these types of comments.

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Originally Posted by THD

I'm sorry, but this is a completely unintelligent argument against implementing spells. We all know SE is able and capable of changing spells around to avoid "overpowering" Blue Mages. Take the following scenarios for example:

Example: Exuviation

• Player effect: Restores HP and removes one detrimental magic effect.*
• Enemy effect: Full Erase. Restores HP based on amount of debuffs it erased from itself.*

Example: Blazing Bound

• Player effect: Deals fire damage to an enemy.*
• Enemy effect: Deals Area-of-Effect fire damage + Burn.*

*From: http://ffxi.gamerescape.com/wiki/

Once again, this excuse is lame and lacks total credibility. If SE does not want to include any Pixie spells, that is their prerogative; just come out and say it. But don't pretend we're idiots with these types of comments.

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Can you blame them, even gimped those spells would be equal to JA'a and way too powerful.

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Originally Posted by Daniel_Hatcher

Can you blame them, even gimped those spells would be equal to JA'a and way too powerful.

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Not really, for example:

Spring Breeze - 25% of total TP down + sleep on trash mobs. 10 TP down on NMs if it lands
Summer Breeze - Aoe Erase + self regain at 1tp/tick based on skill say 10 or 20 skill = 1 second.
Autumn Breeze - Self target Cure VI equivalent that doesn't work with Diffusion.
Winter Breeze - Dispel + short Stun on trash mobs. Dispel if it lands on NMs.
Zephyr Arrow - Ranged Damage + Bind on trash. Ranged Damage on NMs.
Lethe Arrows - Same as Zehpyr, with chance of Amnesia on trash mobs.
Cyclonic Turmoil - Damage similar to Leaf Storm + Dispel 1 buff.

There the pixie abilities have been nerfed to non over powered state. THD is right their excuse is BS, there's no reason to make up stupid excuses that hold no water just say no.

If a spell is overpowered, it should just have a big mp cost and cost 10+ blue magic spell points to set. That way it becomes 'emergency only', and if you set spells to prepare for that emergency, you have to lose out on several other spells to accomodate it.

That's how BLU works!

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Originally Posted by Babekeke

If a spell is overpowered, it should just have a big mp cost and cost 10+ blue magic spell points to set. That way it becomes 'emergency only', and if you set spells to prepare for that emergency, you have to lose out on several other spells to accomodate it.

That's how BLU works!

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No. No this is not how BLU works.

She's kiddin around, take it with a light heart and go have a hearty laugh.

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Originally Posted by Prothscar

No. No this is not how BLU works.

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The more overpowering a spell is, the harder is should be to accomodate. The 4-5 point spells tend to be thus, so if you want to set them, you can't set as many.
1000 needles was *supposed* to be way overpowering for it's level (unfortunately the broken accuracy made this not so) so it was 5 points to set and 350mp.

Hence, that's how BLU works.

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Originally Posted by Babekeke

The more overpowering a spell is, the harder is should be to accomodate. The 4-5 point spells tend to be thus, so if you want to set them, you can't set as many.
1000 needles was *supposed* to be way overpowering for it's level (unfortunately the broken accuracy made this not so) so it was 5 points to set and 350mp.

Hence, that's how BLU works.

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Regurgitation says what? Not to mention a ton of other spells we get. So no that's not how BLU works.

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Originally Posted by Babekeke

The more overpowering a spell is, the harder is should be to accomodate. The 4-5 point spells tend to be thus, so if you want to set them, you can't set as many.
1000 needles was *supposed* to be way overpowering for it's level (unfortunately the broken accuracy made this not so) so it was 5 points to set and 350mp.

Hence, that's how BLU works.

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First off, 5 set points is not even close to an analog of 10. For its level and any level after it, 1000 Needles has always been complete trash between dealing only 1,000 damage, costing 350 MP and taking 12 seconds to cast; the later nerf to ACC was just an insult. It's the Dev Team's inability to balance and make spells somewhat useful that has led to 90%+ of our spell list being completely useless.

Anyways, tangent aside, no this isn't how BLU works. Having a spell cost 10 set points and cost 350+ MP doesn't fix the spell, it breaks it. There are plenty of ways to balance the effect of a spell besides making it unusable.

If I had to, I could name several spells that SE has reconfigured to make suitable for use by BLU.

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Originally Posted by Prothscar

First off, 5 set points is not even close to an analog of 10. For its level and any level after it, 1000 Needles has always been complete trash between dealing only 1,000 damage, costing 350 MP and taking 12 seconds to cast; the later nerf to ACC was just an insult. It's the Dev Team's inability to balance and make spells somewhat useful that has led to 90%+ of our spell list being completely useless.

Anyways, tangent aside, no this isn't how BLU works. Having a spell cost 10 set points and cost 350+ MP doesn't fix the spell, it breaks it. There are plenty of ways to balance the effect of a spell besides making it unusable.

If I had to, I could name several spells that SE has reconfigured to make suitable for use by BLU.

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You seem to be completely missing the point. SE says it would be broken if we had it. I say let BLU have it at full strength and make it stupidexpensive. Then you ahve to weigh up the pros and cons of setting/using it.

Mind, either way there'll be nothing but Q.Qing from the playerbase.

Q.Q SE gave us the spell, but it's too expensive to set.
Q.Q SE gave us the spell but nerfed it.
Q.Q SE won't give us the spell because they say it'll be broken if we do.

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Originally Posted by Babekeke

You seem to be completely missing the point. SE says it would be broken if we had it. I say let BLU have it at full strength and make it stupidexpensive. Then you ahve to weigh up the pros and cons of setting/using it.

Mind, either way there'll be nothing but Q.Qing from the playerbase.

Q.Q SE gave us the spell, but it's too expensive to set.
Q.Q SE gave us the spell but nerfed it.
Q.Q SE won't give us the spell because they say it'll be broken if we do.

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Even at 300 MP I still think full-powered it'd be over-powered.

I'm with SE here, don't give it too BLU. Though I'd rather they just say "We have no intention of giving it to BLU" Rather than "It'd be too powerful" when it's obvious SE could gimp it.

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Originally Posted by Babekeke

The more overpowering a spell is, the harder is should be to accomodate. The 4-5 point spells tend to be thus, so if you want to set them, you can't set as many.
1000 needles was *supposed* to be way overpowering for it's level (unfortunately the broken accuracy made this not so) so it was 5 points to set and 350mp.

Hence, that's how BLU works.

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You can't win this argument. Prothscar, along with many other BLU's here, are under the impression that they should be the most powerful job in the game, period. He wants no set points, access to all spells, 95% acc on all spells, high damage on all spells, low cast / recast time on all spells, low MP cost on all spells, access to all DD gear, access to all WS, access to erase, access to erasega, access to curaga, access to cure 4.5, access to several stuns, access to both light and dark aoe sleeps, ability to self SC, ability to self MB, ability to self haste, ability to self refresh, ability to berserk, ability to nuke, native access to 7+ shadows, native access to aoe stoneskin, and a pink pony for christmas.

The pony is considered optional, the rest is mandatory else he feels the world's against him.

Taken from a developer perspective (I've actually worked on a MMO before) BLU is the most overpowered job in the game, simply by it's access to nearly everything in the game. Only way to impose game balance is to restrict it somehow, thus the set point / slot system was put in place. To further limit BLU SE imposed various restrictions on spells and abilities to maintain BLU's balance with respect to the other 20 jobs in the game. Of course SE has an absolute horrible track record for maintaining balance past a release, thus many of BLU's older spells are rather useless, then again most of BLM's spells eventually become useless. When they modify things they also tend to go too far, its either brokenly overpowered or ridiculously weak, Ranged attacks being a prime example of this. Of course trying to explain any of this is fanboi's is rather impossible, they don't want balance, they just want to be broken and feel special.

Yes the feeling of entitlement is that bad. For any BLU feeling that SE somehow "hates" you or "ignores" you, go play fcking Summoner, Beast master, Thief or Ranger for awhile. Or if your feeling particularly masochistic, go play Red Mage, a job SE is so scared of that they've decided to give it nearly nothing. Then come back and complain about SE doesn't "get you" or isn't giving you what you want.

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Originally Posted by saevel

You can't win this argument. Prothscar, along with many other BLU's here, are under the impression that they should be the most powerful job in the game, period. He wants no set points, access to all spells, 95% acc on all spells, high damage on all spells, low cast / recast time on all spells, low MP cost on all spells, access to all DD gear, access to all WS, access to erase, access to erasega, access to curaga, access to cure 4.5, access to several stuns, access to both light and dark aoe sleeps, ability to self SC, ability to self MB, ability to self haste, ability to self refresh, ability to berserk, ability to nuke, native access to 7+ shadows, native access to aoe stoneskin, and a pink pony for christmas.

The pony is considered optional, the rest is mandatory else he feels the world's against him.

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http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_li7lnbG7Y51qafrh6.jpg

I'm not sure how people saying "Spells are typically made weaker rather than being give huge set point and MP costs and I think this trend will continue. Also, some spells are disproportionately useful given the set points required." leads into job balance and stuff.

I hope anybody who does want a pink pony is happy now, though!

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Originally Posted by saevel

You can't win this argument. Prothscar, along with many other BLU's here, are under the impression that they should be the most powerful job in the game, period. He wants no set points, access to all spells, 95% acc on all spells, high damage on all spells, low cast / recast time on all spells, low MP cost on all spells, access to all DD gear, access to all WS, access to erase, access to erasega, access to curaga, access to cure 4.5, access to several stuns, access to both light and dark aoe sleeps, ability to self SC, ability to self MB, ability to self haste, ability to self refresh, ability to berserk, ability to nuke, native access to 7+ shadows, native access to aoe stoneskin, and a pink pony for christmas.

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This made me laugh because obviously I've missed all these posts Prothscar and all these "many other BLU's" have made demanding everything.

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Originally Posted by saevel

Taken from a developer perspective (I've actually worked on a MMO before) BLU is the most overpowered job in the game, simply by it's access to nearly everything in the game.

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I'm not sure what you did on an MMO but if it was Game Design then I'm curious how much of a role you actually had in the decisions if any. Even if all BLU spells were unlocked it still wouldn't replace BLM for nuking, it would replace any heavy DD for DDing on anything hard. It wouldn't replace THF for TH. It wouldn't replace WHM as healer. It wouldn't replace RDM, BRD, or NIN as the go to enfeebler. It wouldn't replace BRD or COR as the go to buffer. It wouldn't replace PLD as the go to hard crap tank. The list goes on.

BLU is a powerful job in certain scenarios. Even if you remove the limitations imposed to create play style diversity it still only powerful in certain scenarios.

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Originally Posted by SpankWustler

I hope anybody who does want a pink pony is happy now, though!

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I know I am. Much appreciated.

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Originally Posted by Daniel_Hatcher

They wont give a spell that lasts the full time of the JA recast, it'd be 3 minutes at most.

Also they gave their version of a Phalanx last update, they wont add another. I'm still calling a ~500dmg Stoneskin.

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I can understand the pessimistic views on SE making UL spells with a duration not lasting the recast of UL, but there is always a chance. After all, Stoneskin spells (with the exception of SMN) all last 5 min duration.

SE can be full of surprises at times. Remember Occultation? You think if they were to place Occultation under UL it would be only a 3 min duration with 3 more blinks?

Of course, SE likes to fail at times, too. Let's hope for no more fail spells like Feather Barrier, Hydro Shot, and Barrier Tusk.

I've wanted more than anything for SE to fix old BLU spells to be workable but at this point it's kinda pointless. My heart finally broke with Asuran Claws after the previous batch of spells.

Ah well~

Yeah I used Asuran Claws for the first time this week and it was so amazingly luckluster.

It did the same damage as Delta Thrust for me.

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Originally Posted by Tashan

Yeah I used Asuran Claws for the first time this week and it was so amazingly luckluster.

It did the same damage as Delta Thrust for me.

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Surprised it did that much tbh. On paper it's a great spell, but the way fTP works on BLU spells sort of ruins any prospect of it ever doing reasonable damage.

BLU... the only job where the overwhelming majority of your abilities were terrible at the level you got them and they never had the niche use that people thought they had.

Wishlist:

I would like a spell that lowers the enemies attack and magic attack, kind of like Benthic Typhoon but the other way around. Spike Flail and Bloody Claws sure would be nice, too....but yahh, hard to ask for.

Also, wouldn't mind a couple more buff spells, a new stoneskin would be handy, can never go wrong with phalanx, though I'm sure SE has made it clear we're not ever going to get a phalanx, and I would like a spell to increase our evasion for longer than 30 seconds (something like 3 minutes would do).

Overall, BLU's got a lot of physical spells that debuff (delta thrust & benthic)...would really like to see more spells like these. Would really appreciate anything with 3 minutes or more for our buffs. Lastly, please fix some of our terrible spells that we never use....ever.... (Feather Barrier, Barrier Tusk, and etc.) Asuran Claws is sad...maybe increase its set points to make it as good as hysteric barrage? I realize this is kind of like a Christmas list so if anything...SE, you can get me all of this for Christmas. Thank you!

Bloody Claws would be so sexy. :\

more slots for blue magic please! i can easily use all 20 of my slots at 95 with points left over.

Frog Cheer... !!!

I think this is right:

Spell - Blue Mage Points cost (Job Trait)
Barbed Crescent - 2 (Dual Wield)
Wind Breath - 2 (Fast Cast)
Vapor Spray - 3 (Max MP)
Amorphic Spikes - 4 (Gil finder spells plus this = Treasure Hunter)
Thunder Breath - 4 (Max HP)
O. Counterstance - 5 (Counter)
Quadrastrike - 5 (Skillchain Bonus)

Pythic thingy is broken only get a "Has no effect" error when I use it.

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Originally Posted by Dohati

more slots for blue magic please! i can easily use all 20 of my slots at 95 with points left over.

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I doubt we'll get more slots, because we could set and have every job trait if they did which would make every other job /cry.

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Originally Posted by Varazslo

I doubt we'll get more slots, because we could set and have every job trait if they did which would make every other job /cry.

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Would they really care, they're always weaker than main job anyway?

What uses barbed and quad?