Please nerf monk and samurai so other DDs can play

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raydeus

This part is exactly the problem with players that I'm talking about.

Players are so dumb they want to exchange one job that plays one way with another that plays completely differently while using the exact same cookie cutter strategy they copied from someone else and are outraged when it doesn't work the same.

You don't just "replace SAMs and RNGs with BSTs" and play the same way. You also have to adjust your strategy, which requires actually thinking a bit. And that is what most players are incapable of doing, hence the exclusion of jobs that don't fit in the current bandwagon strategy.

This is one of the major reasons why I personally don't bother with end game anymore, just can't deal with just how cowardly unimaginative players can be. A loss or two and you always have people whining about party composition and rage quitting good parties, even if said parties always end up winning consistently later on. And the same can be said about gear "requirements" and BiS bullshit, but that's just another symptom of the same disease.

But anyway, about SAM being overpowered or not it really doesn't mean anything, because there will always be a job that is considered OP no matter what. And no amount of tweaking will ever fix that. If SAM is nerfed another job will take it's place in the OP hall of fame the next week and nothing will have changed at all. Because again, the problem are the players.

---

Efficacy

Why bring a weaker dd, as opposed to a broken one? Sure ppl can try/do the bst strat, however, the chance of success is much higher with sams or rngs, because they are superior dd. Bottomline is this; sam and rng > bst. This is what the argument is about. Sams are better dd than bst; regardless if you get imaginative and clear a delve with dead ppl and red hp. Pets have crap acc and weak ready moves; why bring corsairs to buff them as opposed to a superior REMD dd? Sam and rng are better dd than bst and nearly everyone else; this is the argument. As a result, they are more efficient in endgame.

Pet COR buffs are so dumb. They're exactly the same as the player equivalents but they just add Pet: To the front of them. Just make COR buffs Pet && player.

Unfortunately everything Camate says after the bolded part... is a terrible idea. Our ready moves are on an incredibly long timer... I mean Sic? SO LONG. It's just nuts that SAMs are pooping out weaponskills and my pet can use a move every minute or so? Ready moves would have to do 50K damage to even begin to get close with those timers.

Mochi is crap. It's slightly better than nothing, but not much more. Nevermind that it's YET ANOTHER way that pet players - BSTs in particular, are supposed to enrich crafters.

New pets are going to be useless. They already confirmed that they won't add any monsters that don't suck. As much as I am greatly looking forward to another sheep... um... no I'm not actually.

They clearly don't understand what our jobs need to be more powerful. Gear with pet stats on it that doesn't sacrifice ANY stats for the master. Pets with a higher level than current player ilevel (they need level correction or they suck), Pets taking DRASTICALLY less damage from AOE (unless they are main target) than players and immune to most/all status effects from AOE. Pets getting all party buffs. Pets able to be cured by outside players not just items/abilities on a really long timer.

If SE did all of that, then we'd at least suck a tiny bit less... but we'd still be weaker DDs than SAMs

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WoW

Efficacy

Why bring a weaker dd, as opposed to a broken one? Sure ppl can try/do the bst strat, however, the chance of success is much higher with sams or rngs, because they are superior dd. Bottomline is this; sam and rng > bst. This is what the argument is about. Sams are better dd than bst; regardless if you get imaginative and clear a delve with dead ppl and red hp. Pets have crap acc and weak ready moves; why bring corsairs to buff them as opposed to a superior REMD dd? Sam and rng are better dd than bst and nearly everyone else; this is the argument. As a result, they are more efficient in endgame.

---

Efficacy? Yeah it's so efficient that SE had to make severe Enmity adjustments to placate the whining about tanks not being able to hold hate off DDs going all out on fights and getting themselves and the party killed as a result. Hate used to somewhat balance damage output because if you went too hard too soon you'd get yourself killed or become an unsustainable MP sponge. That is why in the past in those cases DDs would hold back and only go full on to finish the fights.

Also, in those cases jobs that are able to manage damage output and enmity better would have a more sustained damage over time, and coincidentally pet jobs are pretty good at doing just that. Less flashy for sure, but just as effective. In other words, SAM and RNG haven't changed much, it's just that now they can go nuts without getting killed as easy as before thanks to recent adjustments.

But to call that "efficient" is as applicable as calling an 8 cylinder car from the 70's more fuel efficient than an electric car just because it can go up a hill faster.


PS > And about those BST setup barely clearing the content, that would only happen at first while you got the strategy down, then it would be just as simple as the bandwagon strategies. It has always been that way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raydeus

I don't understand how enmity works. At all.

---

Yeah, that's not how enmity works. There's a fundamental problem with it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Balloon

I put words on the people's mouth but don't make a proper post so maybe I can sound smarter.

---

I can see the fun in doing this. :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raydeus

Efficacy? Yeah it's so efficient that SE had to make severe Enmity adjustments to placate the whining about tanks not being able to hold hate off DDs going all out on fights and getting themselves and the party killed as a result. Hate used to somewhat balance damage output because if you went too hard too soon you'd get yourself killed or become an unsustainable MP sponge. That is why in the past in those cases DDs would hold back and only go full on to finish the fights.

Also, in those cases jobs that are able to manage damage output and enmity better would have a more sustained damage over time, and coincidentally pet jobs are pretty good at doing just that. Less flashy for sure, but just as effective. In other words, SAM and RNG haven't changed much, it's just that now they can go nuts without getting killed as easy as before thanks to recent adjustments.

But to call that "efficient" is as applicable as calling an 8 cylinder car from the 70's more fuel efficient than an electric car just because it can go up a hill faster.


PS > And about those BST setup barely clearing the content, that would only happen at first while you got the strategy down, then it would be just as simple as the bandwagon strategies. It has always been that way.

---

Most lvl99s know how to manage their dd output, hence nobody was talking about enmity. This is what we are saying: Sam and Rng > bst. The enmity is obviously a non-issue, because sams and rngs are in high demand. We are discussing job balance, not enmity; obviously too much damage draws enmity. I don't recall mentioning enmity or resenting that..........

Sam and RNG > Bst; this is what I am referring to. No clue were this other stuff is coming from "Shrugs"

If you are just defending your post; i will back off and let you get the last word. If enmity was a big deal; sam and rngs would not be in high demand. DDs are there to deal damage. We learned how to manage enmity in the dunes. Having weaker dds equates to longer battles and tp feed which results in mp sponge regardless brah.

If dude's point was that cause our damage is split we are better in terms of enemity... lol... we are better in terms of enemity because we deal a fraction of the damage of other jobs... that's not actually a desirable trait in a DD. Now, if we dealt 90 percent (even) of the damage as a SAM & with the split enemity - yes I agree we could be useful in some set ups... but right now it's almost like taking half a DD instead of a whole one when you take a pet job. With bosses with devastating moves, that's never gonna be desirable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Olor

If dude's point was that cause our damage is split we are better in terms of enemity... lol... we are better in terms of enemity because we deal a fraction of the damage of other jobs... that's not actually a desirable trait in a DD. Now, if we dealt 90 percent (even) of the damage as a SAM & with the split enemity - yes I agree we could be useful in some set ups... but right now it's almost like taking half a DD instead of a whole one when you take a pet job. With bosses with devastating moves, that's never gonna be desirable.

---

Yea, that is what I got from his post too "Shrugs"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Afania

Ah, this isn't the issue of "SAM can't wait 1 sec to WS". This is the issue of certain way to do skill chain parse higher than another way; 1 single SAM doing multi step SC parse higher than 2 SAM doing fudo fudo light. Several groups claimed their kill speed increased after changing DD to BLM.

Stop claiming X job sucked before you try, and stop claiming others are trolling just because they presented an option you haven't try. Some BLM claimed to parse 85% of SAM in yorcia, not sure what's so bad about 85% in situations you can't WS.

---

So the reason for including a BLM is just to stay out of the way to allow the SAM to be even more broken? That really speaks volumes for the BLM job. ::eye roll:: Pretty much any job that can do decent damage without needed to use a WS that will interrupt a skill chain would do.

I can't help but call trolling when you compare thf being slightly better in dynamis to mnk being "slightly" better in delve. And you can try all the options you want to it won't change the reality of job hierarchy in this game.