I don't really agree, they've put out some bug fixes and playability improvements but the status quo hasn't really changed. WAR has always been somewhere near the top with SAM. DRK and MNK have usually been accepted near the top. DRG has always been considered a substandard 2 hander for as long as I've been playing. THF hasn't ever done good damage, RNG was good once and then the distance nerf came and they became a "specific fight only" job. WHM has always been the most capable healer in an alliance, the only real balance shift there was in the realm of 6 man exp parties when refresh became less important.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
I think the only really significant "balance change" update that ever came about was the 2 hander buff and its subsequent nerf because they overdid it, and I think they only did that because they realized everyone was subbing nin and dual wielding axes instead of using 2 handed weapons like they intended. I suppose the move away from using tanks at all and just DD sponging could be considered a balance shift as well.
SoA content for ALL 20 jobs...
Printable View
-
12-29-2012, 06:16 AMVyvian
-
12-29-2012, 08:58 AMAlhanelem
Throughout ToAU it was pretty much SAM SAM SAM SAM for everything. People took WARs but SAM was always far, far preferred over any other DD.
No it hasn't lol. RDM used to be chosen over WHM all the time. SCH coming out didn't help that at all either.Quote:
WHM has always been the most capable healer in an alliance
DRK has never been near the top, except situationally for kclub zergs.Quote:
DRK and MNK have usually been accepted near the top.
PUP and DRG both gradually moved up from god-awful to "still under-powered but useable."
They've made lots of changes and improvements over the years, but it's usually too little, too late. The time it takes them to realize there's a problem and then fix it is atrocious. Then they don't always go as far as they say they will. e.g. they said they were going to make PUP HTH skill A rank, but then only made it B+ when MNKs were never really in any danger of being dethroned. -
12-29-2012, 09:35 AMVyvian
I think my experience was different than yours.
In anything I've ever parsed they parsed nearly identically in almost every situation that allows for unhindered DD. Generally the only parse variances came from who I knew was a better player, and that went both ways between the jobs. Once the 2 hander buff came out, everyone I dealt with wanted to use WAR SAM DRK and MNK pretty interchangeably for anything I was involved with. Admittedly that wasn't kings, but I did every other end game event when it was current.Quote:
Throughout ToAU it was pretty much SAM SAM SAM SAM for everything. People took WARs but SAM was always far, far preferred over any other DD.
WHMs had superior control of status fixes, enmity management, aoe healing, and spent less mp per hp healed, and all you had to do was give them a refresh. 1 WHM and 1 RDM had better control of healing than 2 RDMs ever did in my experience. As for sch coming out, it made a very large difference in getting invited to merit parties. It also made the rest of endgame easier as WHM because it further accentuated WHM's advantages by improving mp efficiency further and giving a bit fast cast at the same time. RDMs could've subbed SCH and gained some benefits but in the circles I was with that wasn't really accepted.Quote:
No it hasn't lol. RDM used to be chosen over WHM all the time. SCH coming out didn't help that at all either.
The only DRK I really played with had a relic, so maybe that's why I felt good about DRKs.Quote:
DRK has never been near the top, except situationally for kclub zergs.
I agree with this statement, but it doesn't diverge from my original point. In the status quo they're still in the same place, less desireable than the other jobs. Should they be equal? Warrior had loldefender as a defensive skill and DRK had gear that increased the damage they took and souleater. SAM was admittedly OP with a strong offensive output and amazing defensive skills, an oddball of the bunch, but generally the jobs with the ability to reduce or avoid damage, do less damage as a result. DRG could drop hate with jumps, MNK had passive avoidance with counter, NIN had utsusemi.Quote:
PUP and DRG both gradually moved up from god-awful to "still under-powered but useable."
-
12-29-2012, 09:53 AMdetlef
There was a time when RDM was on top for healing due to the limited sources of refresh. WHM was viewed as too high maintenance, and cure bombing was neither feasible nor necessary.
-
12-29-2012, 11:09 PMAfaniaPretty sure I've seen DRK parsed very high too, although that's relic DRK.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
SAM is bandwagon because it's easier to gear like today's DRK, so avg endgame player with no relic or super pimp gear can do pretty well(like how today's DRK can do very well with an OAT).
What everyone want in /shout doesn't mean it's always the best. A lot of times ppl just want X job because it's easier to get decently geared X job when you don't know who are you getting, even if Y job can do better with certain gears.
RDM chosen over WHM only happen in 6 person pt. Anything bigger than 6 person, like Einherjar etc, you'd have both. -
12-30-2012, 01:42 AMAlhanelem
The biggest problem right now is, and has been for a while, SMN. As far as endgame goes, SMN is a one-trick pony, and that one trick is being nerfed. SMN is getting a new SP ability that will temporarily relieve the biggest problem they have for a mere 30 seconds: The BP timer. Even after the rage/ward split, SMN is just idle while other people are beating the crap out of stuff and supporting. The only ways SMN can augment its performance at all really is to either 1) melee to increase damage output, or 2) cure people on subjob to increase support capability. Neither of these things really does enough to bring SMN to the same level as other jobs for either a source of damage OR a support. Get rid of the BP timer/make it really short; or (because of timer limitations) implement a charge system, so that at least SMN can do some burst damage or get multiple buffs up.
You may have seen me being a proponent of melee on SMN; the reason I do this is because i feel like I have to, just to bring the job up a little bit. People shouldn't *have* to do this to strengthen the job, as fun as it is for me to play it this way. It should be strong already. Doesn't Summoner usually have a reputation of power in most FF games? -
12-30-2012, 03:54 AMMercilessturtleYou are mathing wrong then. It is actually ~3% assuming the ukon war isn't a moron and gears for str instead of crit damage on ukkos. Ragnarok is overpowered because of 2 things, resolution and 14% crit rate. The crit rate being removed in mul hurts ragnarok badly, not just ukon. It is worth mentioning that a bravura upheaval war isn't very far behind either, another 2-3%.Quote:
Originally Posted by saevel
-
12-30-2012, 06:41 AMsaevelExcept that's not how Mul works. The NM's have Critical evasion bonus for a flat -%, Rag's crit bonus will put the user over floored crit hit rate, more if their doing BR cycle. Crit isn't ignored in Mul, it's simply reduced by a flat value which tends to hurt anyone who use's a predominately critical based WS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercilessturtle
-
12-30-2012, 09:49 AMMercilessturtle
You may wish to consider that if you are going to act like you are saying something contradictory in every reply you ever make, actually saying something contradictory would be a good idea.
-
12-30-2012, 12:10 PMSapphires
There are more jobs than there are available slots in an 18 person alliance.
Someone (job) is always going to have to sit out.
Learn to play and love more than just 1 job, or prepare to be disappointed.