Oh by the way, pet TH gear?

Ah the beastmaster Treasure Hunter nerf. My turn to comment on this one.

This one is really easy for me. Follow me on this yeah? Beastmaster pets had higher treasure hunter than jobs subbed THF. Right? Well how is that fair that a player has to give up their subjob slot to get less treasure hunter than a disposable extra that another job can summon, multiple times, not be stressed about keeping it alive, and still have the room to sub other subjobs to maintain optimal kill speed? Thats the point of the nerf. BST/DNC simply had every advantage over ALL OTHER PLAYERS in terms of dynamis farming. And thats ALONE. Now, there are plenty of other job combinations that could farm Dynamis solo, that much we all know. But did they have as much Treasure Hunter as the BST did with a pet that automatically got rank 3 TH? Heck no. And to top it off, that source of Treasure Hunter has NO FEAR OF BEING DEFEATED. Something bad happens, oh well summon another pet (yes im aware they cost gil, but if you cant budget that out, you probably need to reasses your gil income. or level cooking up) and continue on like nothing happened. If any other job falls in Dynamis like that, guess what? Your screwed, even with reraise you could end up with 4 or 5 mobs still kicking it near your corpse. Just waiting like a pack of hungry honeybadgers waiting for that snake to pop its head up........ In short, Beastmaster was too powerful simply because pets ARE DISPOSABLE. I like the changes to jugpets, the extra strength was needed to make them more party viable. But expecting to make it rain treasure like a THF with a pet that has up to 3-4x the amount of HP of a THF and can be RESUMMONED in the case they die? I would like to see a THF pull that one off.

Long and short of it, It cramps on THF, it makes BST more anti-social, and it was encouraging to the RMTs to have a one stop shop for a farming job. Dont ask about that last one, I could talk your ear off about WHY that is.

Rawr blarg blarg!
~Chuk

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Originally Posted by Valkrist

Soon enough the forum mods, and company, will always have to have a subnote saying the same thing at the rate of things.

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You're right soon enough they will, because the way this situation was handled was wrong and has led to mistrust.

Unfortunately for them I will no longer be taking anything a developer/community representative says as fact or worthy of getting excited for. For a game company from a culture that historically upholds honesty and honor to high standards they've let me down. Instead of saying oops we screwed up, they lied and only after called them out on it did they try to say oops.

I don't know how many people share my thoughts on this but I'm the type of person that once trust is broken it can never be truly be regained. So now when SE says "X awesome thing is coming" my thought will be "sure it is, lets see if it comes out before I get bored with what I'm doing now, to see if it is awesome or not".

In my opinion that's a horrible spot to be in with your player base.

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Originally Posted by Valkrist

Soon enough the forum mods, and company, will always have to have a subnote saying the same thing at the rate of things.

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As they should, people come to the forums to hear what the devs are in the process of doing, this is conveyed through the community reps, who you'd think would talk the truth. Every other time they've stated "we're thinking such and such" therefore everyone takes it as a possibility, and not a guarantee. The gear was taken as a guarantee as they implied it as such, if you can't trust the staff the convey the developers thoughts they may as well sack them and we can just post bullcrap and claim it as what SE are doing and have the possibility of it being true.

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Originally Posted by Chuk

Long and short of it, It cramps on THF, it makes BST more anti-social, and it was encouraging to the RMTs to have a one stop shop for a farming job. Dont ask about that last one, I could talk your ear off about WHY that is.

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BST was never anti-social, how is it the players faults that the Devs made it simply a solo job and NEVER invited to parties?

If all THF is is TH then that is again the Devs fault for such poor game design, that's not reason to remove job traits from a pet that is said job.

You don't see them removing Cure, Phalanx, Fast Cast etc from PUP pets.

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Originally Posted by Chuk

Long and short of it, It cramps on THF, it makes BST more anti-social, and it was encouraging to the RMTs to have a one stop shop for a farming job. Dont ask about that last one, I could talk your ear off about WHY that is.

Rawr blarg blarg!
~Chuk

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RMT have leech spots with cleaves because they can be done 24/7 with 2 characters... Dyna can be done twice a day with 2 character why would they cut down their profit margins?

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings,

Please understand that the original message that I posted was not intended as a guarantee that we will be adding this kind of gear in the future. This was meant to only be an example of how the pet’s Treasure Hunter could be enhanced to a higher level. While this does not rule out any possibility of adding equipment like this in the future, it was never a promise that it would be implemented.

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I think we just caught you with your "pants down" so to speak... this is like a PR disaster. I mean could the developers have balls and be honest, admitting the reason for the nerf is to make sure time sink on dynamis is preserved??? Let's not go around and round beating the imaginary bushes. If you wrote you will add TH gears, then make it happen. So what, the players are outsmarting the developers bro and they are mad????

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Originally Posted by Dreamin

ton of mad

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Quite a bit over the line no? I mean as upset as I was about the nerf to begin with and agreeing w/ you that there was some screw up I don't think it calls for absolutely laying into the guy and putting him on blast like that, implying he's uneducated or unqualified for what his job entails. I'd suggest chilling the fuck out since you can air your grievances without acting (or coming off) like that.

For all we know the Dev Team mentioned the TH gear off hand and Camate may have went on a limb or god knows what but doesn't excuse what you typed I don't think.

For all the flack Tanaka, the Dev Team and the Community Reps get, they aren't you're local derp in the ls and laying into them isn't going to do much to change their mistakes. They work on a game that you take so seriously as to word such a response like you did I would think some deference is in order. And I don't mean deference like they're infallible or perfect I mean deference to not post in the manner in which you did and instead say fuck idk "As much as I appreciate your diligence in passing along information from the Dev Teams this manner of mis-communication is most disheartening and therefore would hope in the future you will do what you can to make sure this doesn't happen again."

I'm just trying to get across that laying into him the way you did isn't going to change things, and in all fairness yea maybe being civil won't either and at best both are merely different styles in coping (for lack of a better word) about the current situation except one has class.

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Will Truman: Yea I'm a big game player. My favorite is the "Being Nice to Waiters Game", yeah if you win you get to NOT go to hell.

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P.S. This post is most likely gonna come off as white-knighting and maybe rightfully so all I know is my day is very shitty so maybe your post just pricked me the wrong way. Disregard as you wish.

Realistically, Camate was probably copying and pasting a bad translation and didn't have any more insight into the minds of the Development Bros than we did at the time. It sounded like there were definite plans to release Pet TH gear (to both him and us), but apparently there weren't.

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Originally Posted by Valkrist

You're absolutely right that BST has a lack of claiming ability compared to THF and BST in Dynamis if you're only looking at a subjobless BST. Every BST in Dynamis will be /DNC and have access to Animated Flourish for a ranged claim. BST/DNC are perfectly capable of out claiming anyone else. Only the BSTs that are foolish enough to face pull are the ones that should be losing in terms of claiming ability.
etc.

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Way to completely miss the point. The point is that everyone is competitive in dynamis, not just BSTs, I'm just using those examples to illustrate the point, not make some irrelevant argument about ability to claim mobs. I farm dyna as thf, and I frequently encounter other THFs and NINs actively trying to take anything they can, almost unnecessarily and only because its close to me, just to be competitive or virtually piss on "their territory". Your argument about the stereotype of BSTs is based on fallacy.

Edit: Additionally, your argument about BSTs and TH is completely off point. A TH+1 item would put us at TH2 unless we sub /thf, which as you know, is never the case in dynamis. So no, we are not suggesting we are "entitled to being better TH than every job in the game aside from THF" nor is anyone suggesting we should be "entitled to have the monopoly to farming in Dynamis." Those are both made up conclusions in YOUR mind, nothing like that is represented here.

As I have said none of this would matter if they fixed the proc situation so that JA proc was not so vastly superior and consistent compared to the other options. The only reason there is a bottleneck which even creates this frustration is 90% of people crowd one of 3 possible camp/times. Even people who are not BST do it because they too are likely subbing /dnc to JA proc. Fix magic procs and fix WS procs and boom, you have three times the available mobs. None of that has anything to to with BSTs feeling entitled.

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Originally Posted by Chuk

Ah the beastmaster Treasure Hunter nerf. My turn to comment on this one.

This one is really easy for me. Follow me on this yeah? Beastmaster pets had higher treasure hunter than jobs subbed THF. Right? Well how is that fair that a player has to give up their subjob slot to get less treasure hunter than a disposable extra that another job can summon, multiple times, not be stressed about keeping it alive, and still have the room to sub other subjobs to maintain optimal kill speed? Thats the point of the nerf. BST/DNC simply had every advantage over ALL OTHER PLAYERS in terms of dynamis farming. And thats ALONE. Now, there are plenty of other job combinations that could farm Dynamis solo, that much we all know. But did they have as much Treasure Hunter as the BST did with a pet that automatically got rank 3 TH? Heck no. And to top it off, that source of Treasure Hunter has NO FEAR OF BEING DEFEATED. Something bad happens, oh well summon another pet (yes im aware they cost gil, but if you cant budget that out, you probably need to reasses your gil income. or level cooking up) and continue on like nothing happened. If any other job falls in Dynamis like that, guess what? Your screwed, even with reraise you could end up with 4 or 5 mobs still kicking it near your corpse. Just waiting like a pack of hungry honeybadgers waiting for that snake to pop its head up........ In short, Beastmaster was too powerful simply because pets ARE DISPOSABLE. I like the changes to jugpets, the extra strength was needed to make them more party viable. But expecting to make it rain treasure like a THF with a pet that has up to 3-4x the amount of HP of a THF and can be RESUMMONED in the case they die? I would like to see a THF pull that one off.

Long and short of it, It cramps on THF, it makes BST more anti-social, and it was encouraging to the RMTs to have a one stop shop for a farming job. Dont ask about that last one, I could talk your ear off about WHY that is.

Rawr blarg blarg!
~Chuk

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So by your logic a PUP automaton with a spiritreaver head should have lower nukes than someone who subs BLM, or if they have the soulsoother head they should have less cures than someone who subs WHM?

The complaints about the pet TH was mainly due to Dynamis and not any other part of the game, and instead of fixing the problem which was the proc system it was easier to nerf BST.

I have never seen a situation where BST was chosen for a party over THF because people wanted TH, so how did pet TH cramp a THF.

Based on Camate's response, and how he is normally so forthcoming with information - I also suspect the answer was carefully written for him and he is truly the messenger only. I think the SE devs threw the community reps under the bus to take the fall for this. Now we know - no pet TH items coming. We can move on.