[Suggestion] Give procs to all classes!

"Nin is the only real tank right now."

I'm sorry, but what?

A mnk can tank just as good. /war or /nin, doesn't matter much, it all depends on the kind of nm you are fighting (if you need to backtank it sometimes etc).

War can also tank just fine. More dependant on a healer, but it can outDD most other jobs and hold hate just fine = i.e. war can tank.

Examples? Duoing Orthrus with a friend - he's mnk/war, I'm whm. Piece of cake. The most dangerous move Orthrus does, Acheron's Flame, will kill a nin just as easily as a mnk. Actually, it's likely to kill a nin faster than a mnk or a war. Also - duoing Isgebind with a friend - he's war/sam, I'm whm. A lot more efficient than nin + whm simply because war kills it much faster.

I'd go as far as saying mnk and war are better tanks than nin for some of the harder nms (btw not saying Orthrus is hard!).

Agree with the post above. (by Karinya_of_Carbuncle)

Also, I've been thinking more about the idea i had earlier, and hopefully managed to refine it a bit.

Under the assumption that procs are here to stay, and will never go away no matter what people say, I think the solution to some, but not all of the problems of job inferiority because of lack of procs is to rebalance it so that "almost" any combination of three players with main and subjobs that do not overlap would get an amount of procs that are within 10% of each others.

Instead of the black magic procs being Tier 3, 4 -aga3 and AM, two of which *only* blm gets, I would suggesst that -aga 3s were dropped in favor of tier 2 nukes. If you then added one sch proc of each element (helices, i guess?), you'd put SCH and BLM on nearly equal grounds when it comes to black magic proccing. Of course, BLM has another advantage, which is elemental seal to proc with underskilled brd songs (or ninjutsu, lol) without as many resists, but on the other hand SCH can also heal a bit better than BLM (I think, anyway, i don't have either of those leveled to 90).

I would also be in favor of adding elemental shots from cor to yellow procs, as well as skillchains that consisted of a single element. This probably makes it sound like it would require a lot more different jobs to cover the maximum amount of procs, but I have another idea which "should" solve this. There should be two (or more, dunno) possible yellow procs for each NM, and they would be randomly chosen in a manner something like this: Intially, select two random yellow procs based on the normal day limitations we're used to, but if one of them ends up being a spell that is only available when maining a job (such as flare on blm), then the other proc must be one that is available when subbing a job (such as fire 2 or fire shot), or it could also end up being a Lv1 skillchain of the appropriate element.

I am hoping for such a system to be able to let many nonstandard party setups get something around a 75-90% ability to perform yellows, as long as a bit of thought is put into selecting subjobs. Of course, when a yellow proc is successful, the other possible proc for that enemy would no longer be appliciable, to avoid accidental double-procs.

If someone sees some glaring problems with this sort of system, please point them out so I can try to address them, or give some suggestions on how to fix them yourself. The idea behind it is to make the difference between the absolutely totally awesomest party setup, and the rest of the possible party setups to be lessened to such a degree that it doesn't feel like a waste to go abyssea farming without a blm/brd.

Before I start my piece, I won't lie - I have BLM, NIN, MNK, BLU, and BRD all leveled. I've got "desirable" jobs leveled, so it may seem like I'm biased. And maybe I am a little biased, it's possible. That's just my disclaimer here.

For seal farming? Heck yeah I'm going to go for the "desired" jobs. I prefer to seal hunt with NIN/BLM/WHM, and then the last person is a THF or BLU. I rarely go for more than 4 people, because if I assign one person to a seal, that minimizes the number of seals required. If I have two people on a seal, and let's say it's a rare one, then I have to stick around longer. I hate being rude and leaving people without completing their seal sets unless a mob is being particularly annoying (looking at you, Ironclad Smiter), and so adding more unnecessary people means I have to waste more of my time to help finish. Sure, I could just be rude and say "welp, I'm done let's go" but that's just not me.

For larger events? You'd be surprised. I like to get my "necessary" jobs, of course, like NIN/WAR/THF/WHM for Emp item farming, maybe a BLM if people still need +2 items. Besides that, however, I generally pick people for their skill at a job. One of our members got to come on COR because we were set for Sobek, and honestly he was a huge asset. Wildfire was a good 4-5k per shot, Tactician's Roll for 5 TP/tick was amazing (especially with me on BRD, I could fire off staff procs after singing), and overall his utility was hard to argue. Our shell leader often comes on MNK because he's amazing, despite us rarely going for blue procs.

Sure, some of my jobs get put on the backburner - SAM, COR, and SMN don't get much use - but other jobs that seem "unpopular" like my RDM do fine. For example I'll duo Dynamis with RDM/DNC + THF/NIN and bring in a good 2M worth of currency a day, or trio RDM/SCH + THF/NIN + NIN/DNC for more. BST? Well that works well solo anyway. It's true that some jobs have situational niches now, but that doesn't mean that they'll be useless forever.

Jobs have always been in trends; look at ToAU. SAM, DRG, and occasionally WAR were the jobs desired. They had the greatest damage output at the time, and RDM was the king of healing due to having an easily replenishable MP pool. BRDs were required for just about every party. In Dynamis you'd have a few BLMs because they were skilled at crowd control, and during endgame, you'd have a PLD tank. NIN tanks were rare, but they were there occasionally. I rarely remember seeing MNKs in endgame, honestly, and if you were a BLU (I know I was during those days!) then the only thing you were brought along for was SATA Cannonball.

The only real problem I can see is the limitation on EG activity. To most people, this is Abyssea-only, which limits the range of potentially necessary jobs. Some people move to Voidwatch, and can use a broader range (I get to go SMN for it, it's fun!). But for the most part, we don't have 3-5 different types of EG anymore (Sea, Sky, Limbus, Dynamis, Einherjar, etc) where different combinations of jobs are useful. We have ONE (two if you're lucky enough to have a group to do VW with) endgame event, which cuts down that list drastically.

My only suggestion to SE is to open up more events when we hit 99, so we can get out of the current mindset we have. Right now we're in a transition phase, so it's no wonder that we're limited. But if this trend continues to 99, then yes, there is a problem.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Karinya_of_Carbuncle

* NIN is the only real tank right now. On weak enough mobs you can get away with things like THF or DNC and just have everyone else hold back, or MNK and spam cure VI, but it's better to have a NIN. So they don't depend on procs to be wanted (but, ironically, have a quite good selection anyway).

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Pretty much any melee job does okay if you use Cure V instead of Cure VI.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by scaevola

Everybody playing right now has been playing over a year. Maybe one or two guys came out of the wordwork and were all HEY WHATS UP IN THIS EIGHT-YEAR-OLD GAME I ONLY JUST NOW DECIDED TO PLAY AND SUBSEQUENTLY GET IN TO END GAME AND NOT JUST QUIT AFTER A WEEK AFTER BEING COMPLETELY ALIENATED BY THIS STONE AGE INTERFACE AND CONTROL SCHEME but they are the outliers.

Sorry; don't kid yourself. If World of Warcraft is not attracting new players, I find it hard to believe that a game with 0 (zero) advertising budget is raking them in.

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Er, I just started a new character about 6 months ago...

I know one dude who recently restarted after a 5 year break (new character, lost old), and one dude who started for the first time a few weeks ago, so they definitely exist. :p

Could write a long post but imma just say it's fine as it is thx as many pple have already explained.

PS i go SCH DRK COR to tons of abyssea events all of which aren't on ur list of the best stagger jobs but then it's more to do with if your with a group of people that know what u can do you can pretty much play anything within reason.

Also i've tanked stuff on DRK/MNK that NINs would just die on by stack hp/DMG-% gear ^^

(cant say i read everything but...)

I cant stand the proc system as is. The idea is nice but you end up turned around proc'ing stuff to death with dmg 1 weapons is by far the most annoying thing ever. Voidwatch barely helped the situation since now you have even more outlandish proc. In all cases it basically turns any good gear and weaponskills virtually worthless. Game went from best dmg/support to most procs/cure5 and 6.
Honestly hoping the game will see more opportunity to put our actual power to use. I miss being able to test how strong me and my friends have gotten, instead its turned to who can come proc this and that.

I can only speak for myself, my main job being shut out of content (ex, no procs in Abyssea), leads to having to find reasons to log on. I have limited online time and don't want to spend it leveling and gearing up whatever job is the flavor of the moment. My leisure time is valuable and I would like have fun online. I spent a lot of time and effort trying to really understand and play main job well. Did I get any return for my year plus investment? Not really I was informed I should go level another job.

I'd like a way to reset the mob's weaknesses during combat. They should add a !! proc to level one skill chains that reset the monster's weaknesses. The draw back is it would wipe any !! you have triggered on the mob. Any combination of 2 dd and 2 mages are generally able to make most level one SCs and at least a third of any procs. I think this would be a smart way to make abyssea more flexible, without decreasing the difficulty.

This would also require people to learn about the basic skill chain chart and just be generally more knowledgeable about the game. God knows I still know the affinity for almost all WS from ballista 3 years ago.