Suggestions: Quality of Life Stuff and other suggestions

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Originally Posted by Akivatoo

Nowday:
My shield
https://cdn.bg-wiki.com/images/8/87/...escription.png
My feet:
https://cdn.bg-wiki.com/images/3/34/...escription.png

look at defence stat, don't you forget few increasement ?

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Careful here, although it just says DEF, like any other piece of gear, Defense has special value on shields. From wiki

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In addition to the type of the shield, the defense rating of the shield also affects the amount of damage absorbed during a shield block: each point of defense seems to be an additional 0.5% damage reduction.

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Defense on other pieces of gear is not nearly that potent. (Edit: Although defense on other gear is good, not trying to disregard it at all.)

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Originally Posted by Pups323

Yes, and aegis was never about block rate, or defense, it was always about the magic dmg buff. Which is why they dont want to mess with shields/instruments. Sure it would be nice to have it i119 with +242 skill and 100 defense on aegis, but i just dont see it happening.

Ochain still gets to 100% block rate with reprisal, so the only thing that they would do is make them i119 with the exact same stats with no +skill or anything else.

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The thing is though now there is Run which can get similar levels of magic defense while also having 75% pdt. Part of the problem is mob design too. Like sure you can up your magic defense a ton to survive whatever crazy magic move... but that doesn't matter much if your physical defense is the same as a DD and it then trounces you with physical attacks. I'd argue 50-80 skill would be more than enough for aegis and another 30-50 for ochain and another 20-30 def

Also Ochain isn't 100% with reprisal on all stuff. Blockrate without reprisal is down to 70 on lol lvl126 mobs. Which with reprisal goes up to 105%. So given that that is barely capped and xp mobs go higher than that you can see that anything hard you wont have 100%. It also has horrible dmg reduction on block.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

So....

They're only good...because there's not a lot of options? Isn't it....more likely that they wouldn't be good if their design wasn't good to begin with? Not because there's suddenly more options? Any of the PLDs I've ran with for the longest of time never complained they were useless or "not good"..so it can't be relative unless we've went all these years with these particular set of "crappy" shields.

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What was good a year or 2 ago isn't really that hot now. Mobs have gotten higher level and stronger. Like in armor and such it's notable that we need a ton more acc now and a lot of the stuff from when Ilvl was introduced that was great is now trade fodder to npcs.

Similarly mobs ability to get hits in unblocked has increased and other shield options have increased in skill to accommodate this to keep up but the top shields have not. Mobs have also increased per hit dmg and ilvl shields have slowly gained some def to increase the dmg reduction trait but again the top shields have not. It's not that they weren't made well and great it's just the way the game mechanics went and with the whole vertical gear/mob progression without having the shields also progress has slowly made them worse and worse

There seem to be a lot of non-PLDs in this discussion saying shields are fine.

Shields are good, but they are not fine.

I don't play RUN yet, but RUN is also more likely to not even get harmful debuffs like defense down, and usually much more importantly, magic defense down.

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Originally Posted by OmnysValefor

There seem to be a lot of non-PLDs in this discussion saying shields are fine.

Shields are good, but they are not fine.

I don't play RUN yet, but RUN is also more likely to not even get harmful debuffs like defense down, and usually much more importantly, magic defense down.

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I know right lol, or if they do comment they have no idea about the actually state of the shields on 135 content. Its like they are stuck in this abyssea mindset where ochain is soooo op, like I never use ochain in any meaningful content anymore. If anything im thinking about farming an adamas shield because of the 20% resistance to status effects, I would use that over ochain lol.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

So....

They're only good...because there's not a lot of options? Isn't it....more likely that they wouldn't be good if their design wasn't good to begin with? Not because there's suddenly more options? Any of the PLDs I've ran with for the longest of time never complained they were useless or "not good"..so it can't be relative unless we've went all these years with these particular set of "crappy" shields.

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I can't.. I don't know how to even reply to that. It's like saying RME weapons don't need +skill because they didn't need them (before ilvl).

Let me say again that when ilvl first hit, shields didn't need ilvl then either. It's not "It's not fair that every other job gets.". It's.. "It's not fair that the relics and empies we spent time/effort/gil (Ochain mostly) on are falling by the wayside to practically free items."

Hmm, sounds just like the original RME complaints, doesn't it?

And yeah, it's not fair that Aegis blocks about as often as Vivid Strap now.

So many great points being made for an actual upgrade to the shields, I really hope that they reconsiders this stance on shields and instruments.

I'd like to thank Akivatoo for taking the time to put the parse details up for us to see. Also would like to bring up that a friend said that there was a parse conducted with Priwen vs Ochain and that Priwen won vs 135 content. I will need to ask him for the details on where he read this later.

It's just as I had mentioned though previously, what we're asking for is to simply be able to keep our Aegis and Ochain relevant along-side the new shields as they are added. 30~40% block rate on 135 content is hardly a huge request for Aegis.
I am unsure how to approach Ochain adjustments though personally as SquareEnix wants to avoid their mistake of a 100% block reliant shield again which is fine and understandable....I mean, we could do a lot because of that.
However, the biggest concern I personally have is Aegis. I want to keep it relevant and worth all the time/gil I spent to make it.(Probably doesn't sound like much now days, but it was a lot of work making before Dynamis changes...)

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Originally Posted by Aeron

I know right lol, or if they do comment they have no idea about the actually state of the shields on 135 content. Its like they are stuck in this abyssea mindset where ochain is soooo op, like I never use ochain in any meaningful content anymore. If anything im thinking about farming an adamas shield because of the 20% resistance to status effects, I would use that over ochain lol.

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Well, we know SquareEnix is scared to repeat their mistake of making a 100% block-reliant shield again. Though no excuse to floor Aegis at 5% block rate.
Logically speaking, if you weren't going to block attacks with a shield, would you even bring it to a fight? Probably not. Might as well tie your hand to your back and parry or die.

So I personally might just do that very thing at the next event I go to. Gonna show them Rune Fencers how a real tank parries! lol

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Originally Posted by Raka

Well, we know SquareEnix is scared to repeat their mistake of making a 100% block-reliant shield again. Though no excuse to floor Aegis at 5% block rate.
Logically speaking, if you weren't going to block attacks with a shield, would you even bring it to a fight? Probably not. Might as well tie your hand to your back and parry or die.

So I personally might just do that very thing at the next event I go to. Gonna show them Rune Fencers how a real tank parries! lol

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The thing is... what OP thing were paladins doing with Ochain? (This is all @ SE, not Raka)

Cleaving, but a lot of jobs do it better/faster.
Delve supertanking, and yeah, that was just silly except we were doing it to help our LSs, just the same as any member does. You think I liked standing in 4 spots over the course of 45 minutes? It's also not our fault that, besides NMs, everything in delve was a melee that barely got past phalanx/or didn't.
Incursion, but because of party hate, it takes actual effort to mass-tank, and because of a mixture of mobs and some nasty tp moves, it's a whole lot harder harder.

I'm not saying Ochain should block 100% even, I'm just also saying I don't see anything wrong with it, even if it requires a decent shield skill set.