Sooo SE actually wants to know the numbers of PS2 users eh?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eric

There seems to be a trend here. Mostly you speaking for entire groups of people. I'm not trying to seem cool or intelligent by the way. By the way, that's not how I talk to everyone. Just people who deserve it.

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Deserve it because i don t agree with you? because i personally think that dropping ps2 support without at least a ps3 port means the death of the game? you really need to enlighten me with your wisdom on that one.

Oh and btw in your infinite wisdow, on what system do i play ff11?

No you don't deserve it because you've shown yourself to be someone who doesn't really think before he posts, and also someone who selfishly would rather watch the game die than watch PS2 support be dropped.

Also, I don't know or care what system you play FFXI on. I'm not the mind reader here.

Or are you assuming that I'm infinitely wise because I go to university? That's a common mistake that uneducated commoners tend to make. You are forgiven.

Back to the subject at hand, I think that SE should post the results of the survey with the next version update or something. I'm curious to see the numbers.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

LMAO at posting links to people complaining about the PS2 in Japanese as evidence that they should keep it.

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This. It's true that many Japanese people play on PS2 (relatively), but the arguments are exactly the same as here. And no one of us here would be complaining either if SE ported the game to the PS3. While it's a console, and therefore also static, it could well be another 20 years before FFXI becomes unplayable on that. Fact is, they complain about PS2 as much as we do and want the same thing.

People who wanna play it on PS2 have brought me the following reasons so far:
- They can't afford a PC
If money is your only issue, it's a non-issue. Incredibly cheap PCs are available everywhere, and if you still have a PC from the last five years, chances are it can play FFXI as good or better as the PS2.

A popular counter-argument to this is: "It's not for you to judge what's cheap!" Which would be true, if I didn't know your regular expenses. I may not know all of them, but I know some of them (assuming you're actually paying for your FFXI account), and if there are more, the argument just becomes more valid. And seeing how it's not much more than some of your regular payment options to upgrade to a PC, it's actually appropriate to call it cheap.

- They wanna play on a TV
Can do that with the PC and any TV from the last decade. May need to buy an adapter (~$5).

- They wanna play with a controller
Can do that with the PC and your current controller. Again, may need to buy an adapter (~$5).

A popular counter-argument to the last two is: "I just wanna play, I don't wanna deal with all of this stuff, I don't have the computer-knowledge to make it work!" Obviously, however, you have internet access, where you can find an easy 3-step solution to make the controller work. There aren't any solutions online to connecting it to the TV, because literally all you have to do is plug it in.

- They like the smoothness and graphics
PC does it better. It won't exceed 30 FPS though, because that's what FFXI is hard capped at. It doesn't on your PS2 either, for that matter.

- They like playing on PS2
As weird as this reason sounds, it's the only valid argument I've seen people bring here, because it's a matter of personal preference, instead of factual accuracy (or inaccuracy) as the previous arguments. If that is really the case, then I hope for you, that they don't cancel the PS2. I still hope for everyone else though, that they do.

Note that this is just the "Con" column of the argument, which can effectively be reduced to 1 argument, which is personal preference. The "Pro" column on the other hand goes on and on. And I truly believe that if you really are against it for that one valid reason, you could be convinced once you see the benefits of the PC version. You should try it out and see for yourself, several people here already confirmed how the switch affected them, and that they're better off on the PC now.

Funny, towards the end of that thread they are all complaining about how expensive it is to get PS2s repaired.

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Originally Posted by Eric

No you don't deserve it because you've shown yourself to be someone who doesn't really think before he posts, and also someone who selfishly would rather watch the game die than watch PS2 support be dropped.

Also, I don't know or care what system you play FFXI on. I'm not the mind reader here.

Or are you assuming that I'm infinitely wise because I go to university? That's a common mistake that uneducated commoners tend to make. You are forgiven.

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let ask you this do you know exactly how many people worldwide play on ps2? because what if there is enough of them(thats a hint about the system i play on btw) that suddently the game isn t profitable anymore? If the S-E account system epic fail taugh us anything its that people do not like change

And commoner, seriously who are you the queen of england?

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

Funny, towards the end of that thread they are all complaining about how expensive it is to get PS2s repaired.

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Isnt that a hint that not only do they play on the system, but have no intention of switching to another system?

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Originally Posted by Ash

Isnt that a hint that not only do they play on the system, but have no intention of switching to another system?

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Or it could be them just talking about how playing on PS2 is a hassle. Neither of us know. The difference is that you're blindly assuming things just because it will benefit your cause.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ash

let ask you this do you know exactly how many people worldwide play on ps2? because what if there is enough of them(thats a hint about the system i play on btw) that suddently the game isn t profitable anymore? If the S-E account system epic fail taugh us anything its that people do not like change

And commoner, seriously who are you the queen of england?

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Who are you? Caesar Chavez? There will be no PS2 lovers Union Boycott of FFXI. People who love the game will play it however they can.

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Originally Posted by Eric

Or it could be them just talking about how playing on PS2 is a hassle. Neither of us know. The difference is that you're blindly assuming things just because it will benefit your cause.

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I could say the exact same thing about you....and my cause, again your highness your assuming...

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Originally Posted by Ash

I could say the exact same thing about you....and my cause, again your highness your assuming...

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Oh so you mean you're not blatantly talking about how PS2 support shouldn't be dropped? It doesn't take someone educated to figure that out. It's not hard to see your position when this is a 2-sided debate.

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines.]

Regardless of whether or not PS2 support should be dropped, no good argument can be made against the fact that it is holding down further development of FFXI.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

Who are you? Caesar Chavez? There will be no PS2 lovers Union Boycott of FFXI. People who love the game will play it however they can.

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How could they boycott if they plaftorm is dropped? Its still lost revenu to a game who doesn t have millions of players. You know at one point it stops being profitable when theres not enough ppl playing it right?

It's also lost revenue if people start quitting because SE can't continue to add content to the game. (Hint: A lot of players will eventually finish everything there is to do if PS2 support keeps the game from advancing.)

If we want to continue to assume things, it'll always be a lose-lose situation. I'd rather take the path that allows for the game to grow.

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Originally Posted by Eric

Oh so you mean you're not blatantly talking about how PS2 support shouldn't be dropped? It doesn't take someone educated to figure that out. It's not hard to see your position when this is a 2-sided debate.

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines.]

Regardless of whether or not PS2 support should be dropped, no good argument can be made against the fact that it is holding down further development of FFXI.

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Lol you do realise i play on pc too right(sorry i had to tell you, you couldn t seem to get it)

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines.]

Again the reason i am against the dropping the ps2 is because i think it will kill the game, you do not have to agree, but it is what i think and why that arcon fellow suggested moving the ps2 players to their own server.

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines.]

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Originally Posted by Eric

It's also lost revenue if people start quitting because SE can't continue to add content to the game. (Hint: A lot of players will eventually finish everything there is to do if PS2 support keeps the game from advancing.)

If we want to continue to assume things, it'll always be a lose-lose situation. I'd rather take the path that allows for the game to grow.

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The thing about this thread is actually fascinating in the quitting department.Because a lot of PC user are really angry its easy to tell, but at the same time none of US ever mentioned quitting over it.

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines.]

Of course PC users aren't saying they will quit. That's because there is still plenty of content to go around. Once development slows down due to PS2 limitations the story will be different.

Eventually people will run out of things to do in game. Then they will quit. Not due to anger, but due to boredom.

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Originally Posted by Ash

gain the reason i am against the dropping the ps2 is because i think it will kill the game, you do not have to agree, but it is what i think and why that arcon fellow suggested moving the ps2 players to their own server.

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Wasn't me and I don't think that. I think it's not a bad idea though, not from a business standpoint but to not force anyone to quit. Simply to be nice to the PS2 playerbase. No one here hates them or wants them gone. I also believe what FrankReynolds said is true, that people who love the game will keep playing, one way or another.

But dropping the PS2 would not kill the game in any way. For one, it requires a lot less players than people think to keep FFXI viable. Even with just 10k players on one server, it would still be SE's biggest cash cow. Secondly, as I said, people who wanna play will move to another system eventually. I think more people would quit (or did quit) about the payment change than the dropping of the PS2 ever could.

Another thing that people forgot to mention so far is that if the PS2 is actually dropped, and the game would advance in the way many people would see it to (more inventory for one, better macros, better UI (possibly including some Windower features), possibly even new expansions) it would attract a lot of the old playerbase back, possibly even some new people. SE didn't realize yet that in the MMOG market it's all about the image. If people think the company sucks, they won't play their game. If people are hearing good things, they might give it a shot. PS2 limitations are holding back a lot of development, which is infringing heavily on the game quality.

People and their opinions are a lot more fickle on MMOGs than normal games, because to try it out usually only costs ~10 bucks (as opposed to 50~60 bucks involved in buying a brand new game). So if they hear good things they're a lot more likely to give it a shot. Image matters and SE needs to get it right. It's why XIV will never, ever be popular again, even if it becomes a great game (it's already a good game, it underwent several major changes in the last year). And they risk running XI into the same dead end.

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Originally Posted by Eric

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines.]

Of course PC users aren't saying they will quit. That's because there is still plenty of content to go around. Once development slows down due to PS2 limitations the story will be different.

Eventually people will run out of things to do in game. Then they will quit. Not due to anger, but due to boredom.

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[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines.]

and lastly tell me what is the ps2 fault that it took s-e 3years to finish wotg? like someone said earlier he could play this game for 5 years and still have stuff to do( and judging by your account so do you)

Let s-e worry about the content and enjoy whats already out ok?

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Originally Posted by Arcon

SE didn't realize yet that in the MMOG market it's all about the image.

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This line alone resumes the problem
S-E has done a very good job of alienating they customer base over the years and your at a point where everybody is unhappy, i mean the ps2/xbox version are buggy as hell, pc players can t get nice things and then there was the account transfer nightmare. add into the mix all the years where the game stalled because they were working on 14 and that leave me little faint in their decision making anymore,but call me insane i still love this game.

Hello!

A number of comments were made that were off the topic of the thread and had to be removed. Please try to keep the debate civil and on the topic at hand.

As always you can review the Forum Guidelines at the link below.

FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines
http://support.na.square-enix.com/ru...la=1&tag=forum

Thank you for your understanding!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ash

How could they boycott if they plaftorm is dropped? Its still lost revenu to a game who doesn t have millions of players. You know at one point it stops being profitable when theres not enough ppl playing it right?

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Well, They could refuse to move to PC /360. That is the only way that would cause a loss of revenue. But like I said, I doubt that there are that many of them Who would join in your boycott of other systems. Most people aren't willing to give up their accounts and years of work just to prove they love PS2. So again it boils down to you saying they are poor.

You say they will lose revenue, but as we saw a few pages back: It takes roughly 387 player accounts to pay the salary of just 1 ( grossly underpaid ) programmer, and 1 ( again underpaid ) tester. In real life though, I think we all know that there is a lot more overhead involved in running this game than just 2 guys in a room. So by cutting the costs of PS2 programming, they would have to lose a ton of players to even make it a wash. If a lot don't quit, its automatic profit.

The only reason I see them keeping PS2 is to keep an image with people who are Sony brand loyal.

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Originally Posted by Ash

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines.]

and lastly tell me what is the ps2 fault that it took s-e 3years to finish wotg? like someone said earlier he could play this game for 5 years and still have stuff to do( and judging by your account so do you)

Let s-e worry about the content and enjoy whats already out ok?

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On a technical sense the fault of WoTG taking 3yrs to complete is because of ps2 and XIV. They didn't bother to make anymore expanded story expansion packs with new new zones not rehashed zones because of ps2 limitation, to make production of areas easier and because they were relying on XIV to take on the steam for XIV.

What they failed with though is XIV kinda fell flat and it's graphic requirements alienate those who may still be playing on ps2, so in a sense they did shoot themselves in the foot with that. By ps2 players I mean those who play on ps2 most likely wouldn't have what's required to play XIV.

But ya the reason why it was stretched out as much as it was is cause the limitations of the ps2 which after WoTG and even during it they already rehashed areas. While the concept of another world to see the war of vandiel is interesting the reasoning behind it was to have quicker production times even though they did take so long to get all the content out. They were really hoping to make WoTG a final chapter like story where all the pieces fall into place and we understand the reasoning as to why everything started. If you look at things they really had no plans of giving us a true VU and they do basically put ps2 at fault with it. A game like everquest has multiple expansion packs and is still running because of the fact it's only platform is a computer. Meanwhile XI is limited by the capabilities of the ps2 and is pretty much impossible to upgrade.

PC users will leave when they start to get bored of the content, if you compare this to an MMO like everquest there really is no drive to play now once WoTG is complete. All the content being added now just seems to be content with no real story behind it, or if it is it's an afterthought. I'm sure a majority of XI players found the game fun for it's story and once you get rid of that all you have is a game where you just keep getting better gear with every update kinda like WoW.

I am hoping this survey may reveal some good news, granted I'll feel bad for those that play on the ps2 but with the way the game is now we have no hope of ever seeing the whole world of vandiel and that to me just kills any drive to really play the game lol.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

Well, They could refuse to move to PC /360. That is the only way that would cause a loss of revenue. But like I said, I doubt that there are that many of them Who would join in your boycott of other systems. Most people aren't willing to give up their accounts and years of work just to prove they love PS2. So again it boils down to you saying they are poor.

You say they will lose revenue, but as we saw a few pages back: It takes roughly 387 player accounts to pay the salary of just 1 ( grossly underpaid ) programmer, and 1 ( again underpaid ) tester. In real life though, I think we all know that there is a lot more overhead involved in running this game than just 2 guys in a room. So by cutting the costs of PS2 programming, they would have to lose a ton of players to even make it a wash. If a lot don't quit, its automatic profit.

The only reason I see them keeping PS2 is to keep an image with people who are Sony brand loyal.

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Again when did i say these ppl were gonna boycott? i speculated( just like you are) that some ppl on the inferior platform would end up quitting.

Again your money saved argumen is pure speculation, do you have factual fact to back it up? what if all the programmers worked on the ps2 version then when their done switch to working on pc version, same for developpers. Also i think 387 is really a small number if you take into account the whole NA/JP playerbase(you can translate all the post on the links me and eric posted, it still seems that for every japanese players hating/not playing on the ps2, there is one playing on the ps2/ps3)

For the last time i was saying that dropping ps2 support without a ps3 is like shooting themselves in the foot, not that ps2 will should boycott s-e if they were to drop support.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eric

Feel free to also ignore the part where I proved that JP players also hate the PS2. After all, by doing so, you are making the conversation about how poor you are rather than whether or not people support the discontinuation of the PS2.

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Feel free to also ignore the part where I proved that English players also play on the PS2. After all, by doing so you are making the conversation about what you prefer rather than whether or not people support the continuation of the PS2.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Melodicya

Hello!

A number of comments were made that were off the topic of the thread and had to be removed. Please try to keep the debate civil and on the topic at hand.

As always you can review the Forum Guidelines at the link below.

FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines
http://support.na.square-enix.com/ru...la=1&tag=forum

Thank you for your understanding!

---

Thanks Melodicya!

<3 GMs.

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Originally Posted by Ash

Again when did i say these ppl were gonna boycott? i speculated( just like you are) that some ppl on the inferior platform would end up quitting.

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If people aren't going to quit, then there is no loss of profit. You implied that there could be enough people quitting to sink the game. The JP thread you referenced is full of posts suggesting that people want to change platforms, and are mainly hanging on because they want to support Sony, not Microsoft. I don't believe they would outright quit (thus boycotting Microsoft) in order to do that. I made light of it by referencing a Latin american labor rights supporter who organized various boycotts in support of his cause. My point still stands.

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Again your money saved argumen is pure speculation, do you have factual fact to back it up? what if all the programmers worked on the ps2 version then when their done switch to working on pc version, same for developpers.

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If there are 8 developers working 1 hour a day on PS2, SE still pays the same as 1 developer working 8 hours a day. Six of one - half dozen of the other type thing.

Quote:

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Also i think 387 is really a small number if you take into account the whole NA/JP playerbase(you can translate all the post on the links me and eric posted, it still seems that for every japanese players hating/not playing on the ps2, there is one playing on the ps2/ps3)

For the last time i was saying that dropping ps2 support without a ps3 is like shooting themselves in the foot, not that ps2 will should boycott s-e if they were to drop support.

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387 was just an example based on a a salary of $30,000 a year. Average programmer salary in japan is $60,000. SE is rumored to pay roughly twice the national average. That is a lot of people boycotting just to offset the salary of 1 guy. See what I mean?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

If people aren't going to quit, then there is no loss of profit. You implied that there could be enough people quitting to sink the game. The JP thread you referenced is full of posts suggesting that people want to change platforms, and are mainly hanging on because they want to support Sony, not Microsoft. I don't believe they would outright quit (thus boycotting Microsoft) in order to do that. I made light of it by referencing a Latin american labor rights supporter who organized various boycotts in support of his cause. My point still stands.



If there are 8 developers working 1 hour a day on PS2, SE still pays the same as 1 developer working 8 hours a day. Six of one - half dozen of the other type thing.




387 was just an example based on a a salary of $30,000 a year. Average programmer salary in japan is $60,000. SE is rumored to pay roughly twice the national average. That is a lot of people boycotting just to offset the salary of 1 guy. See what I mean?

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They want to change platforms from ps2 to ps3 thats all potential players your losing by cutting support, Hell your the one who linked the post about the jp complaining that it costs too much to repair a ps2.

Don t you see that its your own flawed vision of things versus my own flawed vision of thing? Theres is so much more to take into account/that we do not have info to speculate on.

All ive seen in this post is ppl trying to convince themselves that nobody plays on ps2 in hope of shinny things and as soon as someone says he likes the ps2/plays on it he s a retard or he s poor...so the question is how many ps2 players didn t bother to post in the thread because of all the animosity towards them? If you read some of the comments in that post eric linked, even the Pc enthusiast in Japan still wish for a ps3 port of the game and in that same thread there is more ps2 players( try way more) than in this thread.


You have all rights to want shiny things out of the game but really i don t see it happening even if ps2 support is dropped.

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Originally Posted by Volkai

Feel free to also ignore the part where I proved that English players also play on the PS2

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All 6 of you

Wanting a PS3 port doesn't mean that they wouldn't change platforms if they had to.

The Japanese love FFXI too much to quit just because PS2 support is dropped. I'm willing to bet that most of them would switch to PC if they really had to.

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Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

All 6 of you

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This is exact stupid assumptions i was talking about.

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Originally Posted by Eric

Wanting a PS3 port doesn't mean that they wouldn't change platforms if they had to.

The Japanese love FFXI too much to quit just because PS2 support is dropped. I'm willing to bet that most of them would switch to PC if they really had to.

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The less platform option you offer to people the more chances you get of them quitting, but you do make a valid point for once, thats some japanese players won t quit over it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ash

They want to change platforms from ps2 to ps3 thats all potential players your losing by cutting support, Hell your the one who linked the post about the jp complaining that it costs too much to repair a ps2.

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Just because they want PS3 doesn't mean they will quit if they don't get it, and the fact that they want PS3 means that they have the money so that is not the issue. You are still assuming that people would rather throw away their accounts and all their hard work than play on PC / 360. If that is the case, then they will be gone soon anyways. PS2s don't last forever and they don't make them anymore.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

Just because they want PS3 doesn't mean they will quit if they don't get it, and the fact that they want PS3 means that they have the money so that is not the issue. You are still assuming that people would rather throw away their accounts and all their hard work than play on PC / 360. If that is the case, then they will be gone soon anyways. PS2s don't last forever and they don't make them anymore.

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If you read the thread they all have a ps3 already. the breaking is a moot point, they clearly have place to fix them to this day(if you read the post you linked)

Also i fixed my old ps2 3 times in 10 years all it takes is a screw driver and some white grease...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ash

If you read the thread they all have a ps3 already. the breaking is a moot point, they clearly have place to fix them to this day(if you read the post you linked)

Also i fixed my old ps2 3 times in 10 years all it takes is a screw driver and some white grease...

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I know they have PS3. I was referring to them wanting the PS3 version of FFXI (that doesn't exist). Regardless of the misunderstanding, it doesn't change the fact that no one is gonna give up their account to boycott PC / 360. Hence there will be no major loss if any.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

I know they have PS3. I was referring to them wanting the PS3 version of FFXI (that doesn't exist). Regardless of the misunderstanding, it doesn't change the fact that no one is gonna give up their account to boycott PC / 360. Hence there will be no major loss if any.

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nobody play 360 there though, and playing on pc means a change compared to console, people are afraid of change hence yes there will be some quitting.

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Originally Posted by Ash

nobody play 360 there though, and playing on pc means a change compared to console, hence yes there will be some quitting.

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lol congratulations. You have me stumped. I cannot express how poor that reasoning is without having a mod remove the comment. Oh wait how does this sound? Nobody play PS2 though.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

lol congratulations. You have me stumped. I cannot express how poor that reasoning is without having a mod remove the comment. Oh wait how does this sound? Nobody play PS2 though.

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What don t you do you not get lol? some people do not like playing this game on pc(again what does the current pc version have over the ps2 version other than a higher resolution?)

i know your angry because people are proving you wrong and that the ps2 support won t be dropped, but you gotta let it go bro, no reason to get that angry and insulting over a game.

in the end we all pay the same amount per account and what sounds like a good idea to you might not be to the S-e shareholders

JP don't like the Xbox 360. 360 market share in Japan is very low.. That being said, more xboxes are being sold than PS2s(and backwards compatible PS3s). (hint: none, because they are not being made anymore).

This make me laugh though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eric

JP don't like the Xbox 360. 360 market share in Japan is very low.. That being said, more xboxes are being sold than PS2s(and backwards compatible PS3s). (hint: none, because they are not being made anymore).

This make me laugh though.

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And this is why some many japanese player are asking for a ps3 port.


Btw eric did that moderator scare you or something, you ve agreed with 2 of my post and your actually being polite, what a nice change of pace.

That, or you just sound less batshit insane.

But in all seriousness, is there any reason you had to bring that up? Or do you just want to gloat? Or . . .?

After all, I only got one post moderated, while you had like 3.

By the way, do you agree that this game would be better off without PS2 limitations ?(not keeping in mind the playerbase, etc.). The answer should be quite obvious.

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Originally Posted by Eric

That, or you just sound less batshit insane.

But in all seriousness, is there any reason you had to bring that up? Or do you just want to gloat? Or . . .?

After all, I only got one post moderated, while you had like 3.

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Go back a couple of page you got more than one...and come on my deleted post where the ones im attacking you, pretty clear someone got hit in is pride and reported/ but its ok bro somehow it killed your condescending tone.

The game would only be better if they actually improved it after dropping the support, wich i think they won t do