The Mysteries of Vana 'Diel

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Originally Posted by Wolfandre

There is truth in this, but someone also brought up the Tribune articles regarding the Avatars: the layman doesn't know about the Celestials/Terrestrials. The only ones that do (researches at the Rhinostery and the Champions of Abyssea) were likely wiped out. So we can assume that these Avatars ARE the Celestials, but they find themselves with differing names based upon survivors' accounts.

I mean, look at notorious monsters in general. They didn't name themselves. Adventurers, travellers, and lesser monsters named them that because of what they do, their accomplishments, or what they are. Otherwise, they'd just be the same monsters, but with tougher stats.

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Except you aren't a layman and you would know the names of the creatures parading themselves around as avatars. It just doesn't make sense for you to witness Jala in Scars of Abyssea as Leviathan then travel to Uleguerand and meet the same Leviathan now called Ogopogo.

Further, the celestials running around as average mooks to be mowed down by the adventurer completes goes against the lore surrounding them. While you are powered up by the transfer to Abyssea, it'd make no sense for celestials to be so easily dispatched.

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Wouldn't Aht Urghan have been destroyed because of that whole deal with Odin and Alexander? I dunno, it's been a long time since I went through that story, so I can't quite place it.

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ToAU takes place after the events of CoP so we're left to assume that the conflict in Aht never happens.

I'm willing to bet those Avatars you see are not the true avatars, Simply their Essence/presence leaking/broken out of the Crystals. As what Sparthos said, Those Avatars are suppose to be so powerful that if awoken, Vana'diel would return to its primeval state.

Since theres multiple instances of those avatars, I definitely place my bet on them being just leaked consciousness. Its not hard to guess the Protocrystals of Avatars might have been damaged in Abyssea.

I may have not done enough Abyssea Quests, but what does the marking on Zeid's forehead mean? Is it the mark he bore when he became a Dark Knight?

Also, Drogaroga's Spine: Was it really a giant beast or is it just another power conduit that wasn't built properly underground? It shows to go under the castle where you can grab the Magicite?

Now, I read the entire thread so I may started mashing together posts, but someone regarded the Temple of Uglypies as a Zilart civilization, it's actually a Kuluuian settlement, with the Tonberries being the said Kuluu.

Someone also asked why Mithra women were the ones out here being bros and it wasn't because the males were weak or easily pushed over, it's mainly because there's just a lack of quantity of Male Mithras which made them become the Housewife for population control. It's as if Sparta was run by Women instead of Men.

Edited for Kuluu spelling :|

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Originally Posted by Tatts

I may have not done enough Abyssea Quests, but what does the marking on Zeid's forehead mean? Is it the mark he bore when he became a Dark Knight?

Also, Drogaroga's Spine: Was it really a giant beast or is it just another power conduit that wasn't built properly underground? It shows to go under the castle where you can grab the Magicite?

Now, I read the entire thread so I may started mashing together posts, but someone regarded the Temple of Uglypies as a Zilart civilization, it's actually a Kulluian settlement, with the Tonberries being the said Kullu.

Someone also asked why Mithra women were the ones out here being bros and it wasn't because the males were weak or easily pushed over, it's mainly because there's just a lack of quantity of Male Mithras which made them become the Housewife for population control. It's as if Sparta was run by Women instead of Men.

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Zeid's mark is explained in the Bastok WoTG Questline. I forget exactly what its from, but they do talk about it a bit.

Drogaroga's spine is just another conduit. Theres a CS (I think ZM4) that actually shows it powered up and stuff.

Rule of thumb: Id it's made out of cermet (that white stuff the crags are made out of) it's probably part of the crystal line.

Also, Zeid's mark is a self-inflicted wound, the mark of the squad he was a part of. They were all slaughtered by the beastmen during the crystal war, while the nearby hume squad simply sat, watched, and did nothing.

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Originally Posted by Urthdigger

Rule of thumb: Id it's made out of cermet (that white stuff the crags are made out of) it's probably part of the crystal line.

Also, Zeid's mark is a self-inflicted wound, the mark of the squad he was a part of. They were all slaughtered by the beastmen during the crystal war, while the nearby hume squad simply sat, watched, and did nothing.

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Was it the Crystal War? Or even earlier? Considering everyone knew him as Zeid the mythril Musketeer during the crystal war.

Where does the Olduum civilization fit into the story line? The remnants of their technology we find scattered about the Aht Urhgan areas seem to indicate they were highly advanced. What happened to them?

It's pretty safe to assume that Odin and Alexander did what Odin and Alexander do over and over, and the Olduum civilization got wrecked by it.

Then again, Vana'Diel faces two extinction-level events every month so I guess it could be anything.

Well the reason Olduum was advanced because there was a sage called Ramuh who came to town and spread his knowledge. There was a particular machine that was able to predict earthquakes but the Olduumians didn't believe it. When the earthquake happened, lot of ppl died and they blamed Ramuh for not warning them. He gtfo'd and they rejected his technology since then, which explains the ruins/beaten up tech.
Those who survived most likely are today's Aht Urgan citizens after they rebuilt w/out Ramuh's tech.

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Originally Posted by Tatts

Well the reason Olduum was advanced because there was a sage called Ramuh who came to town and spread his knowledge. There was a particular machine that was able to predict earthquakes but the Olduumians didn't believe it. When the earthquake happened, lot of ppl died and they blamed Ramuh for not warning them. He gtfo'd and they rejected his technology since then, which explains the ruins/beaten up tech.
Those who survived most likely are today's Aht Urgan citizens after they rebuilt w/out Ramuh's tech.

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I always thought that was more mythology than fact, given the tone of the NPCs who talked about Olduum and the mention of a sage who shares a name with an avatar. Since the ruins are currently buried or partially buried, though, a massive earthquake makes a lot of sense. I guess I should have more faith in the eccentric, elderly NPCs of FFXI.

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Originally Posted by Eurell

Was it the Crystal War? Or even earlier? Considering everyone knew him as Zeid the mythril Musketeer during the crystal war.

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It was during the early part of the crystal war.

Oh, I have something that I wish to know more about, If Abyssea and Vana'Diel parralled, at least up until CoP, why were Abysseans able to enter Vunkrel and Grauberg? From what we see it looks like those two zones came out of the war unscathed. Was this explained or was it an excuse to reuse two past zones?

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Originally Posted by Tatts

Oh, I have something that I wish to know more about, If Abyssea and Vana'Diel parralled, at least up until CoP, why were Abysseans able to enter Vunkrel and Grauberg? From what we see it looks like those two zones came out of the war unscathed. Was this explained or was it an excuse to reuse two past zones?

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There is no real reason that we couldn't visit those zones in the present as both areas still exist. Grauberg is the highland area bordering Konschtat and Vunkerl appears to be the area where the river that runs through Carpenter's Landing empties into the sea.

So yes, it's just because SE wanted to reuse two WOTG zones for Abyssea.

Easilly the most epic thread on the whole forum. Should be a sticky.

Ok here's one. whats the difference between Evasion+1 and Evasion Skill+1.
Does Evasion Skill work the same as Accuracy and +1 is +0.9 after 200 skill? Or is it like Attack and 1=1 always?

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Originally Posted by noodles355

Ok here's one. whats the difference between Evasion+1 and Evasion Skill+1.
Does Evasion Skill work the same as Accuracy and +1 is +0.9 after 200 skill? Or is it like Attack and 1=1 always?

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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...ll-and-Evasion

Nice info. I had assumed it would likely be 0.9 after 200 like Accuracy, but my oh my there was some "interesting" shouts in PJ this morning. Eva skill is like a cup, and eva is like filling the cup. It's best to use eva skill+ after you cap eva+. And so on lol.

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Originally Posted by noodles355

Nice info. I had assumed it would likely be 0.9 after 200 like Accuracy, but my oh my there was some "interesting" shouts in PJ this morning. Eva skill is like a cup, and eva is like filling the cup. It's best to use eva skill+ after you cap eva+. And so on lol.

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Nothing compared to what people say about TH or about Haste, etc. Some people are just like that. snopes.com should have a section about FFXI.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

Nothing compared to what people say about TH or about Haste, etc. Some people are just like that. snopes.com should have a section about FFXI.

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If you run into a Gobs arm when it readies Bomb Toss, it will drop the bomb every time.

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Originally Posted by Sparthos

If you run into a Gobs arm when it readies Bomb Toss, it will drop the bomb every time.

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Same if you provoke it at the right time. And when you run behind it when it does Goblin Rush it has a greater chance to miss.

All of the expansions up until Wings of the Goddess flow from what came before it.

Defeating the Shadowlord cleared the noise in the Crystal Line so the Zilart could then try to open the Gates of Paradise. Elad'narche trying to activate the crystals pulled Al'Taieu back into our dimension enough to awaken Bahamut and return Selh'teus into our world. The materials gathered from the Biotechnological Weapons (Proto-Omega and Proto-Ultima) were needed in order to create a new body to house Alexander.

So Aht Urhgan is fine because our Abyssean counterparts probably didn't get to do a lot of Limbus.

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Originally Posted by Septimus

... So Aht Urhgan is fine because our Abyssean counterparts probably didn't get to do a lot of Limbus.

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Lucky them :x

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Originally Posted by Invader

Lucky them :x

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Not really that lucky. Promathia was still planning on destroying the entire planet. They just wouldn't have get their faces exploded all over before it happened had we not stopped him.

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Originally Posted by Septimus

Not really that lucky. Promathia was still planning on destroying the entire planet. They just wouldn't have get their faces exploded all over before it happened had we not stopped him.

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The entire planet should have been aware of the crisis in the middle lands given the sky turning crimson? The disappearance of Shikaree Z and Tenzen at least would have their nations aware of the impending disaster.

Also, is the planet behind Shinryu Abyssea?

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Originally Posted by Sparthos

The entire planet should have been aware of the crisis in the middle lands given the sky turning crimson? The disappearance of Shikaree Z and Tenzen at least would have their nations aware of the impending disaster.

Also, is the planet behind Shinryu Abyssea?

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The other nations were also aware of the danger posed by the Shadow Lord and didn't do anything. I would chalk that up to a lazy, helpless population that can't tie its own shoelaces without adventurers. (Like most RPGs.)

And yeah, that would probably be Abyssea since the Paradox hovers over its moon and the ring of the Mother Crystals surrounded both. (Which is why we can see the moon but not the sun there.)

Why are there level ~10NMs immune to Gravity, Bind, Sleep, Stun, and Terror?

Where is the logic in that. a few of those things aren't even accessible til 30+, 1 of them until ~60+. Did they feel Making it immune to Terror would stop the level 75BST from Killing it >_>?

Just bringing this up because, i ran up to Duke decapod, Used Feral Howl and it missed, I'm like.. "Why?" then i one-shotted it. What purposes do those immunities serve?

What IS Absolute Virtue? (not how do you kill it)

(more detailed version of the above question and more questions hidden here! Maybe plot spoiler stuff.)

I know it uses the Aern model and has the Dragoon job, but I mean, why was it jailed? (it appears when you kill all the jailers of the different virtues, so I assume it's being held captive) Where did it come from? What function does it serve? How does it fit into the world? Is it the combined virtue of the Zilart people that they removed somehow, similar to removing the emptiness from themselves in the Chamber of Eventide? Or maybe is it the Zilart Emperor after he rid himself of emptiness (this doesn't really make sense as the other Zilart are the quasilumins, not the Aerns)?

I'm just grasping for answers due to the limited lore provided in the game (really, most of the endgame bosses have very little actual in-game lore unless they're part of the missions, and they deserve more.)

Why are Kirin and the other 'sky gods' on Tu'Lia? Who are they in Vana'diel's mythology (not earth mythology)... they seem like animals that have attained 'god-hood' like the Terrestrial Avatars, but they're not avatars are they?...

Who or what are the "Crystal Warriors" (I mean the Ark Angels) really?
We get at least two stories of what they are during the game and neither held more authority than the other, in my opinion.


Other crazy thoughts:
Phoenix is the fiery bird of resurrection... why can't it revive itself with its own innate power?

Are Dark Ixion and the Auroral Alicorn avatars? They seem to do similar things as the Cait Siths, only they don't talk.

If Pandemonium Warden is supposed to be guarding the gates to the underworld, it's doing a really bad job, letting the Einherjar and Odin out so often. Does it work for Odin? If it's not keeping things IN the underworld, is it trying to keep us out?

What does the Emptiness do to areas that it has come into contact with? Just how destructive is it, because apparently, in the Far East, when people were overcome by the Emptiness, they fell into a slumber and other people were able to get them and use them for sacrifices to try to revive Phoenix, so it sounds like the land around them was left "untouched" and only the people were affected. The only other contact we've had with the emptiness is Selh'teus and his control of it in the Crags, which may not be indicative of what the Emptiness does on its own.

My main evidence against Dark Ixion and Auroral Alicorn being avatars is the fact that they actually fall to the ground in their defeat animations.

All of the other avatars simply dismiss themselves. The idea of taking pieces of Dark Ixion (horn, tail) as trophies also leads me to the conclusion that it and the Alicorn are more legendary monsters than terrestrial avatars.

On Phoenix:

It seems like terrestrial avatars do not have infinite energy within the lore of FFXI.

Fenrir has been weakened in the past, Bahamut needed to gather energy during CoP before launching his attack and Diabolos has proven himself to have limitations so it isn't a huge stretch to believe that Phoenix needed energy from sacrifices in order to regain herself.

I also suspect that irony is at play, with the fiery bird of resurrection being unable to revive herself and all.

Superbe thread :O

Does anyone know where the water flowing through Ru'Aun Gardens come from?

I don't think it's actually possible that somethimes will rain... But who knows?

It's said that most of the races originated in or at least near the Middle Lands (orc/gigas/mithra aside), along with being the historical playground of the gods.

So just how did a gigantic chunk of the population (Yagudo included) manage flock east (Aradjiah, Far East) to establish multiple civilizations, develop magic and relatively advanced technology on their own, and wage age-long wars all while being completely unnoticed/unscathed by the Middle Lands OR most of the gods' shenanigans? Especially in such a short amount of time?

I mean, they must've been some seriously stealthy nin-... oh god, I just answered my own question. The Far East suddenly makes a lot more sense to me now.

OK.... what killed the dinosaurs in Mindartia? Or... who?

Think of it like this. It has been about 10,000 years since the Meltdown, we have about 10,000 years of recorded human history on Earth. Every corner of Vana'diel is populated, every corner of Earth is populated. They have magic, but we have more advanced technology. I would say looking at real life as a guideline, Vana'diel is about on par with Earth devlopment-wise.

And if I could post a picture of the giant brain from Futurama, I would shop him into Tahrongi Canyon for you.

Huh, didn't consider the 10,000 years. Beats the tar outta assuming everything happened in the *700* years or so worth of recorded history, especially coming from old timelines I read that are ancient and probably long-retconned (or was simply vague enough to purposely expand upon later). That, and Odin and Alexander's sour relationship probably wrecked a civilization or two out of the annals of history anyways.

9000+ years with magic largely being an arcane and unknown thing then, huh? That's gotta have some seriously cool material to offer in terms of story fluff.

On the subject of races, what's Megomix's deal? Between him and his frightening Khimairas(Khimariae?), his homeland sounds like they got the shaft considering they're just stuck with the measly and genetically enhanced Bugbears. Is Megomix and his Moblin buddies over in Halvung in cahoots with his brethren in Movalpolos, or is he an independent party reaping the benefits of Aht Urghan's secrets? ...Or are the Bugbears in Movalpolos the result of Megomix's research imported from his time with the Trolls?

...wish we had more story about the non-Crystal War Beastmen in general, other than simply being bad guys we have to fight. They're cool.

SE could literally release a huge book of FFXI lore, covering all the sorts of things coming up in this thread, and make a mint. I know I'd sure as hell buy one (especially if it had pretty pictures)

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Originally Posted by noodles355

SE could literally release a huge book of FFXI lore, covering all the sorts of things coming up in this thread, and make a mint. I know I'd sure as hell buy one (especially if it had pretty pictures)

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Really, this would be an excellent purchase.
Like a databook pretty much.

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Originally Posted by Septimus

Think of it like this. It has been about 10,000 years since the Meltdown, we have about 10,000 years of recorded human history on Earth. Every corner of Vana'diel is populated, every corner of Earth is populated. They have magic, but we have more advanced technology. I would say looking at real life as a guideline, Vana'diel is about on par with Earth devlopment-wise.

And if I could post a picture of the giant brain from Futurama, I would shop him into Tahrongi Canyon for you.

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Taking that amount of time into perspective makes things make a lot more sense. Especially considering the huge theological differences between the groups of Yagudo, which seems like the sort of thing that would require a history beyond remembered generations.

Also, I believe the races of Beastmen who could easily smash the five races in a more primitive time all lived somewhere far, far away originally. It all comes together in a way.

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Originally Posted by Septimus

And if I could post a picture of the giant brain from Futurama, I would shop him into Tahrongi Canyon for you.

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http://cache.gawker.com/assets/image...brainspawn.jpg

"Hahaha! The Big Brain am winning again! I am the greetest! And now, I leave earth for no raisin!

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Originally Posted by noodles355

SE could literally release a huge book of FFXI lore, covering all the sorts of things coming up in this thread, and make a mint. I know I'd sure as hell buy one (especially if it had pretty pictures)

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I'd defenitly buy one right away and I have the impression many others would too. Let's hope it happens someday! :)

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Originally Posted by noodles355

SE could literally release a huge book of FFXI lore, covering all the sorts of things coming up in this thread, and make a mint. I know I'd sure as hell buy one (especially if it had pretty pictures)

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I'm kinda holding out hope that they kinda add the lore of the game... into the game... I know, crazy thought.

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Originally Posted by AyinDygra

I'm kinda holding out hope that they kinda add the lore of the game... into the game... I know, crazy thought.

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There's a ton of quests and stuff that give lots of lore and background into tons of things. Almost everything people know about the lore of the game did come from the game lol.

Adding questions...

Is the empire of Aht Urghan founded by hume?

It's seems so (beeing the empress a hume) so how the people spread in those lands?

Were there settlement of other races before the empire was founded?

When was founded? XD

P.s. Are out there quest as beautiful as the five serpent generals' quest? (Not storyline/mission quest)