Yeah, XI stagnating into more or less the same level 75 endgame for years was kind of an exception to the flow and evolution of MMOs. I don't quite agree with the belief that some have with Abyssea being an overpowered sandbox swan song of the game, but I will never sit here and think of the future with it being the standard.
This is why once we're looking elsewhere and things like MP limitations are a concern again, RDM's actual balancing factor (MP) will be there to determine how much it can do within a certain span of time. Ideally, the melee role would tie up that MP for self-buffs, an emergency cure, enfeebles, and maybe the odd MB. If you try to main heal and nuke aggressively at the same time, you'll pretty much empty your gas tank quick.
Nonetheless, RDM melee shouldn't begin with CDC after 85+ levels and hours of running trials. And until WoE is more hospitable for individual progress, demanding it just to even enter baseline acceptability isn't good. We don't see people refusing to invite WARs who don't have Ukko's, but I'm sure they'd be pitching a fit if that was indeed the case.
On Red Mage melee...
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03-09-2011, 07:50 PMSeriha
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03-10-2011, 05:48 AMrogI don't know, since SE hasn't said a word about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xikeroth
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03-10-2011, 06:10 AMXikerothIts very simple, SE knows that staying at level 75 for so long was a mistake whereas the other MMOs constantly raise the level cap and add new content. SE has been known to keep its players guessing. They wont tell us for maybe 2-3 months at most about the new content we'll get.Quote:
Originally Posted by rog
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03-10-2011, 07:36 AMSupersun
I don't expect any major new endgame content to be released this update (or at least anything as expansive as abyssea).
Keep in mind that when visions of abyssea was released I would venture that the other 2 abyssea expansions were close to completion as well (similar to how all 3 add-on expansion were probably created around the same time, hence when the first one was complained about the other 2 weren't fixed in response because...they were already most likely created and done) all that was really needed were specific tweaks to get them ready for launch such as the level of monsters, but the basic mechanics were already determined ahead of time (such as Bastion and Dominion). What they didn't know was how successful it would be. So here we are at the end of their abyssea queue and they probably didn't expect the way things turned out with XIV failing and people falling in love again with XI so they probably didn't work a lot on new content up until now. They are probably working hard on some new content, but content takes some time to create. In the mean time though I expect them to revamp older content to stall like they are doing with dynamis since such adjustments are easily done.
but this is getting off topic a little so...
I know people have suggested in the past that adding utility to Rdm melee would help encourage people to let them melee more in parties. Enspell IIs were an attempt at this although I'm not sure when they will realize that elemental resistances really don't do that much unless they are in large numbers since people either gear to near perfect accuracy or don't even bother due to their stupid high resistances. What type of things could they add to Rdm melee to give it extra utility? I personally want to see enspells that lower monster statuses like maybe enblizzard III could also lower the monsters evasion since those statuses are really not used that often (especially the magic related ones). -
03-10-2011, 03:24 PMDuelleI like the idea, but it would have to be something implemented to take effect when an enspell is active, not tied to specific spells. Otherwise things get horribly skewed towards one spell (Enblizzard, in this case, given all the ice merits we're required to take as is). My take on that would be:Quote:
Originally Posted by Supersun
Job Trait - Appel (RDM lv55): Occassionally reduces the evasion of the enemy while under the effect of a weapon enhancement spell. Requires Composure.
Proc rate would be about 80 or 90% of what a THF sees at max Trasure Hunter potential. The RDM could even get a message similar to what THF gets saying "The enemy's evasion has decreased by X". -
03-10-2011, 11:05 PMSupersun
I think you sorta missed the point. Each of the new enspells would have their own separate debuff.
Enfire - Lowers Magic Attack Bonus
Enaero - Lowers Defense
Enthunder - Lowers Magic Defense Bonus
Enwater - Lowers Attack
Enblizzard - Lowers Evasion
Enstone - Lowers Accuracy
The only issue is that some of those debuffs are better then others. -
03-11-2011, 02:04 AMSwordsI made a similar suggestion in another thread yesterday. A JA that enhances the power of Enspells and adds additional enfeebling or elemental DoT effcts such as Enblizzard I/II = Paralyze or Frost that increases with each successful hit to a degree like the resistance down effects from Tier II enspells.Quote:
Originally Posted by Supersun
For added effect SE can make it where the success of landing the additional effect can be directly effected by the players Enfeebling/Enhancing/Elemental skill, just to add a bit of balance to the mechanics.
I really think our potential to melee could be greatly increased, if first and foremost SE finds some creative ways to reduce the amount of spells we have to cast while still letting us use our main strengths. -
03-11-2011, 06:57 AMGERMI like that idea but more then likely the element would have an effect that would be based off its opposing element for instance enwater would reduce attack or str and enthunder would reduce VIT or def and ect ect down the line... or even add a reduction to the resistance of the element your using / or opposite that way you can still throw a nuke in and do more unresisted damage then you would otherwiseQuote:
Quote Originally Posted by Supersun View Post
I think you sorta missed the point. Each of the new enspells would have their own separate debuff.
Enfire - Lowers Magic Attack Bonus
Enaero - Lowers Defense
Enthunder - Lowers Magic Defense Bonus
Enwater - Lowers Attack
Enblizzard - Lowers Evasion
Enstone - Lowers Accuracy
The only issue is that some of those debuffs are better then others.
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03-11-2011, 08:10 AMSeriha
While I'm not against enspells having additional effects, the problem with those listed is people will basically only pick one (Probably the DEF down), and using anything other than that one would make you a bad RDM.
And old idea I had ages ago involved giving RDM a couple stances whose effectiveness was then tied into enspell use. I had to dig a little on Alla to find it, but here it is. Some of the wordings from the pre-Abyssea/cap increase mindset, so spare me corrections relative to the current game.
Conceptually, I know some of this has the pro-backline seething about how it has no benefit to them. I'll just point out that if you're hanging back, you're likely swapping your weapons to up potency, something that isn't possible if you're sticking to a sword or dagger for TP gain. Being at a distance also limits the AoEs you endure while also cutting your enmity gain to spells you cast. Meanwhile, the melee RDM is building up melee enmity on top of what spells they do use. Your advantage is the safety net, and as far as nukes go, more potency.Quote:
First, let's come up with two stances. The first we'll call "Magic Fencer" and we'll loosely call this the Enhancing side. The second we'll call "Runic Knight" and let it emphasize offensive casting. Now, while either of these are active, Enspell damage inflicted will build toward a pool, a bit of a mix between Sublimation and DNC steps. For every 30 Enspell damage inflicted, you will gain 1 level in this pool, up to 3, that you can then apply to a spell via another set of abilities. We'll simply call them "Feedback I, II, and III" for sake of demonstration.
Code:Magic Fencer effects with Feedback:
Feedback I II III
Duration: +30% +65% +100%
Phalanx: +2 +4 +6
Haste: +3% +4% +5%
Stoneskin: +15 +30 +45
Regen: +3 +4 +5
Refresh: +1 +2 +3
Blink: +1 +2 +3
Aquaveil: +5% +10% +15%
Barspell: +10 +20 +30
Spikes: +1 +2 +3
Runic Knight effects with Feedback:
Feedback I II III
Duration: +30% +65% +100%
MACC: +5 +10 +15
MATK: +5 +10 +15
CMP: +10 +20 +30
Slow: +3% +4% +5%
Paralyze: +1 +2 +3
Blind: +5% +10% +15%
Poison: +2 +4 +6
Bio ATK: +3% +4% +5%
Dia DEF: +3% +4% +5%
Prior to using any of these boosts, you'd have to pop the appropriate tier of Feedback before casting. It would only work for that spell and then deduct the appropriate amount from your Feedback pool. Feedback I would be first gained at 55, II at 65, III at 75.
For those interested in playing RDM as a tank or a more rounded party buffer (Especially with Accession), they'll probably flock to Magic Fencer. I'm on the fence with this stacking with Composure to allow like 12 minute Hastes and such on the RDM, but the main goal is to reduce your cast load on other people and therefore giving you more time to swing. These also technically eliminate the need for Haste II and Refresh II as spells, or at least allow the former to go to WHMs. Spikes enhancements are a bit more general, but figure Blaze to do more damage while Para and Stun proc more on the others.
Runic Knight should obviously portray itself as the offensive aspect. All enfeeble durations would be upped, making a RDM/BLM ES+Slow II comparable to a BRD's ES/Troub Elegy in duration. Paralyze would gain a minimum number of procs, Blind reduces ACC more, Poison gets more DoT, Bio/Dia's respective status downs also get a boost. The MATK is there if you want to partake in MBs. The presence of Conserve MP is to promote uptime since the costs of T2 debuffs and T3 nukes is rather high.
At present, a RDM with Enhancing Sword, Fencer's Ring latent active, Lycopodium Earring, Hollow Earring, and 300+ Enhancing Skill would get around +33 per strike on T1s if the mob isn't resistant or has Shell/MDB. Technically, a lot of RDMs would probably just use Joyeuse (and off-hand Justice) with Fencer's and settle for +25. This should allow time between recasts to build your pool up for another Feedback if you're going to be using exclusively on one spell. To some degree, it'd also allow hopping between modes if, say, starting a fight in Knight and switching to Fencer after landing your debuffs. Pools would also reset when switching, too.
Otherwise, some of the numbers are conservative. I'd actually want to make Phalanx's buff better, for example, and maybe change the MATK boosts to a universal elemental Affinity like the magian staves. Not as high, of course, but if you could match the old elemental staves for HQ, peachy. -
03-11-2011, 10:30 AMSupersun
One big problem with that though is that our melee time could be drastically cut down from spamming Feedback so much. Maybe another solution is that the Feedback JAs are like on/off switches. If you have feedback III on for example it will automatically try and use 3 charges of feedback for any spell you cast and any spell you don't want to use feedback on because you want to save the charges you can turn feedback off.
It'll also allow a programming type method for how we want the game to handle feedback. If you have feedback II on it will always try to use 2 feedback charges if you have them or none at all. If you have lvl 3 on like mentioned before it will only try to use 3 charges or none at all. If you have lvl 2 AND 3 on it will try to use 3 charges and if you don't have 3 then it will try 2 charges and if you don't have that it won't use it at all.
That's just in example though, but making feedback a JA you have to activate for every spell would certainly eat our melee time