[Suggestion] Consolidating Equip Macros

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Originally Posted by Trumpy

I must have missed this boasting.

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Then you didn't read anything she said at all, because that's pretty much every post of her summed up.

she said it was originally intended to be played that way. just like the ninja tank example given above. it may have lost translation as does everything as the argument continued and tempers become heated. and best way to play for her maybe. was the swappin=cheating said like a year ago? did she say that in this thread? i dunno i think maybe she changed her mind (i dont know if this is true) on the issue as she mentioned it was a more efficient way in this same post? are people allowed to change their minds?

Either way i seem to be missing what your opinion is on the actual purpose of this thread? would you like to see a way to gear swap every slot in one shot (other than using the windower)?

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Originally Posted by Trumpy

she said it was originally intended to be played that way. just like the ninja tank example given above. it may have lost translation as does everything as the argument continued and tempers become heated. and best way to play for her maybe. was the swappin=cheating said like a year ago? did she say that in this thread? i dunno i think maybe she changed her mind (i dont know if this is true) on the issue as she mentioned it was a more efficient way in this same post? are people allowed to change their minds?

Either way i seem to be missing what your opinion is on the actual purpose of this thread? would you like to see a way to gear swap every slot in one shot (other than using the windower)?

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Yes, but according to MUDs that isn't possible. inb4 Rosa = tanaka

verb (used without object)
1.
to speak with exaggeration and excessive pride, especially about oneself.
2.
to speak with pride (often followed by of): He boasted of his family's wealth.

Talkin of your own play style =/= boasting. talking of how with your play style you soloed the world maybe. akin to braggin about oneself. I dont see where she has said she has done spectacular things with her play style. only that people have accepted or just DGAF about her play style.

Now here is my turn to be the broken record:
Either way i seem to be missing what your opinion is on the actual purpose of this thread? would you like to see a way to gear swap every slot in one shot (other than using the windower)?

which part of my post according to MUDs isnt possible?

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Originally Posted by Trumpy

which part of my post according to MUDs isnt possible?

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read rosa's posts.

i did, still not seein what it had to do with my quoted post or FFXI as it isnt a MUD?

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Originally Posted by Trumpy

i did, still not seein what it had to do with my quoted post or FFXI as it isnt a MUD?

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but according to them, that's one of the reasons that gear swapping is cheating, since apparently that wasn;t present in them.

(sarcasm)

is ur MUD post something actually on topic? i can see how it would relate to suggestion number 1 if i am understandin Rosas post clearly, but for suggestion 2 it wouldnt apply.

Seems to me the way #2 would work is youd have a separate menu that had gear sets (similiar to your equip screen) and you name said sets. and then reference them in one command by name. /equip set TP

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Originally Posted by Trumpy

is ur MUD post something actually on topic? i can see how it would relate to suggestion number 1 if i am understandin Rosas post clearly, but for suggestion 2 it wouldnt apply.

Seems to me the way #2 would work is youd have a separate menu that had gear sets (similiar to your equip screen) and you name said sets. and then reference them in one command by name. /equip set TP

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Everything that was to be said about the main topic was basically already said. The last 10ish pages has just been irrelevance.

If anyone where played an MUD.. you can't streamline ,acros like you guys think you can. And the more lines you put the more automated it does get.

i read that as you cant put a bunch of commands in one line like /equip body hands legs ect ect in one line.

also ffxi wasnt originally a MUD either. unlike how gear swaps may have been originally unintended or ninja not a tank originally intended but eventually accepted in this same game. (i do see ur /sarcasm thing tho)

agreed. and it was also the last 10 pages that everyone involved should have had cooler heads about them and jsut stopped (10 pages ago)

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Originally Posted by Trumpy

Either way i seem to be missing what your opinion is on the actual purpose of this thread? would you like to see a way to gear swap every slot in one shot (other than using the windower)?

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Yes, and most others do too, before this thread became a steaming flame pile we said so. We actually had a good discussion at one point. Until SE spoiled the party.

speaking of ways things are read or interpreted and off topicness:

about runic fencer, (i know we know nothing concrete) they said they would use runes to do things. did they (as in SE) actually say runes would be consumable items (like ninja tools)? I was out of town and everything i read when i had pc access just said they used runes. yet for a while every single post about it i read seemed to believe they were consumable items. I may have missed a few sources of info there. Id like to hope its more of a charge system like SCH has on strategms as we already have a consumable item tank and dont need another one even if it works differently.

Just checkin if i missed something there

yea SE responce didnt seem to concern any of the discussion we were having. maybe a couple posts mentioned linkin macros to summon other macros somehow, so that was the responce we got, nevermind the 100 posts about simply swaping more gears with one macro than we can currently

watch SE reply to my runic fencer question in this thread now

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Originally Posted by Trumpy

watch SE reply to my runic fencer question in this thread now

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they seem to not monitor much else, tbh

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-conte.../popcorn_2.gif

i can't believe that in 27 pages nobody has thought to mention that MMOs are a service. and the customers either:

A) want an expanded macro system.
or
B) are onionknight


that's really all that matters. every day i care a little less about SEs vision for the game and a little more about MY vision for the game, and in MY vision i don't need to hit 6 buttons to cast a spell.

you could call this selfish but at the end of the day i'm PAYING for this. don't i have a right to ask for things? better macros are a simple playability upgrade. it's not game breaking in any aspect...

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Originally Posted by Doombringer

i can't believe that in 27 pages nobody has thought to mention that MMOs are a service. and the customers either:

A) want an expanded macro system.
or
B) are rosina and onionknight


that's really all that matters. every day i care a little less about SEs vision for the game and a little more about MY vision for the game, and in MY vision i don't need to hit 6 buttons to cast a spell.

you could call this selfish but at the end of the day i'm PAYING for this. don't i have a right to ask for things? better macros are a simple playability upgrade. it's not game breaking in any aspect...

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well put, getting sick of peeps saying you're gonna get what they give you and like it.

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Originally Posted by Trumpy

yea SE responce didnt seem to concern any of the discussion we were having. maybe a couple posts mentioned linkin macros to summon other macros somehow, so that was the responce we got, nevermind the 100 posts about simply swaping more gears with one macro than we can currently

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uhh what are you talking about?

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

Hey guys,

I just wanted to let you know that we understand everyone's viewpoints as to why swapping additional gear via macros would be favorable, and to some, it may not.

The following policies were established from the beginning after thoroughly exploring the macro feature:

1. The fundamental rule is that macros execute one action per line. (Excluding “/wait”)
2. It is not possible to automate things nor call other macros within a macro.

Due to the aforementioned reasons, we do not plan to expand macros and we appreciate your understanding.

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This clearly states its not gonna happen both of them.

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Originally Posted by Iakothm

uhh what are you talking about?





This clearly states its not gonna happen both of them.

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1 action = swap into weapon skill gear.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

1 action = swap into weapon skill gear.

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That's how it should be.

Um...... I was actually in agreement with the topic >.>;; I never said I GS was cheating. And i don't Brag. All I asked is to not be insulted for how I play. Also, if no oned cares.. then inuslting me was pointless. As for the MUD comment, MUD are text based mmo. And heavily make use of macro scipts. Like making an attack macro, then making a chain macro of said macro. What you guys are asking for is a streamlined comand that can't work as the sever will not be able to read and excute it. aka /equip hand "item" ONLY works as a singular line.
Thats why suggested my suggestion. Having a equipment book would fix the issue. All you would need to do is set up the gear you need, then use the command in the macro. that is a full set of gear under a single command. And here is the thing, FFXIV is getting something similar as my suggestion. So technically SE alread has basic code work for it, just need to tweek it for ffxi and has a text comand for it.

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

Hey guys,

I just wanted to let you know that we understand everyone's viewpoints as to why swapping additional gear via macros would be favorable, and to some, it may not.

The following policies were established from the beginning after thoroughly exploring the macro feature:

1. The fundamental rule is that macros execute one action per line. (Excluding “/wait”)
2. It is not possible to automate things nor call other macros within a macro.

Due to the aforementioned reasons, we do not plan to expand macros and we appreciate your understanding.

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Originally Posted by Iakothm

This clearly states its not gonna happen both of them.

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Like I said early, this doesn't state they can't increase the line's in each macro. Which would help the problem tremendously.

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Originally Posted by Rosina

Um...... I was actually in agreement with the topic.

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fair enough, i shall amend my statement.

though in my defense you seem to have been fighting pretty hard for your right to not swap gear. which seems like a very anti-macro position to be in.

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Originally Posted by Doombringer

i can't believe that in 27 pages nobody has thought to mention that MMOs are a service. and the customers either:

A) want an expanded macro system.
or
B) are onionknight


that's really all that matters. every day i care a little less about SEs vision for the game and a little more about MY vision for the game, and in MY vision i don't need to hit 6 buttons to cast a spell.

you could call this selfish but at the end of the day i'm PAYING for this. don't i have a right to ask for things? better macros are a simple playability upgrade. it's not game breaking in any aspect...

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http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7dzsxxKCv1qgt3m7.gif

man id kill for this. the majority of my jobs have to have two macros for one command (ex 2 macros for ws two for back to tp set) and that's not including all the elemental obis, gorgets, sorc rings and the rest. not to mention our pdt mdt sets, its too much! i hate that you have to use a third party for the ability to decent swap outs. As for the mention of XIV, people there do try to change gear for things but its much more clunky. The XI players of XIV constantly whine about this loss of gear swapping to be more powerful. As for me, well i welcome the extra inventory in xi, but we could do so much better dmg and have a use for so many more drops if we could swap better.

Well I've changed my stance and think they should allow full gear swaps. Its feasible but inconvenient for people to do full gear swaps on Vanilla (might try it myself), so they should remove the inconvenience, because thats all it is.

Don't think they sould go full spellcast route. As far as I'm concerned, automated midcast etc is full on cheating.

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Originally Posted by Rosina

As for the MUD comment, MUD are text based mmo. And heavily make use of macro scipts. Like making an attack macro, then making a chain macro of said macro. What you guys are asking for is a streamlined comand that can't work as the sever will not be able to read and excute it. aka /equip hand "item" ONLY works as a singular line.

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I can't really tell how well comparing a MUD to something like FFXI works, even though one could say it started around the era of the GMuds.

The macro syntax does resemble the MACRO-10 language that dates way back, and which was used for many a MUD, but in any case, when it comes to programming, there really are no limits except for your imagination, and your want for it. There are the do, until, else, if, and so on, to execute commands one after another.

A simple line for bash could look like something like this:

date | cowsay && uname -a && eix mud

Which would in my system 'pipe' (could think of it as a relay, passing a command to another) the command 'date' to 'cowsay', display a nice ASCII cow stating the time and date, and then comes the &&, meaning it will execute the next command when, and if, the first one completes without any errors. Then comes 'uname -a' providing system information, and 'eix mud' after that searching the Portage Tree for ebuilds with the pattern 'mud' in their name and displaying the results.

Point being: impossible is nothing!

In the case of FFXI, it would likely be most easy to simply increase the amount of lines we have. It's actually along the lines of what you mentioned: “they already have something for XIV”, but it's a whole different beast, being a 'bit' more modern. In FFXI, they probably try not to mess with the code much as it is, and it would quite definitely have to be something written specifically for FFXI. That is to say, having something for XIV doesn't automagically make it easy to deploy over here, at the FFXI-camp.


What was I talking about again?
Nothing ! !! !

I think it seems more or less like we are saying no, while the developers are not listening, or in other words, not in the possession of the want for it, which I will not understand, ever. Improving the macro, would improve the gaming experience. There's no other conclusion at all, I am sure!

I refuse to believe that they are oblivious about how much this feature is disliked, even if it's not complained about that much (due to users taking roundabouts past the issue, no doubt).


/etc/init.d/sleepymutterings stop && /etc/init.d/sleep start && poweroff

DRag... you eve ran a DOS pc? There are infact limits to what a pc can read digitaly.... Macros work the same from mud to mmo spaning from 1990s till now, no matter the game the macro systym is generally the same. Meaning 1 action per line. anymore and there can be confliction. Also if anyone read the interview SE has to really scrape space to give us a 5th expac.

Back to the original topic, I think out of all of the suggestions I've seen, the thing that would be most helpful and least likely to be exploited in some unexpected way would be if SE would allow us to save gearsets. Equip a set of gear, type /gearset "WAR WS" and that gearset is considered your WAR WS set. Equip another set of gear, type /gearset "WAR TP" and so on. Allow saving of something like 30 sets of gear (I know it wouldn't be enough for some people, but let's be realistic) and people can use /equip gearset "WAR TP" in their macros instead of a separate line for each piece of gear.

I would love to see something like this implemented. We're not asking for automation, we just want to be able to change equipment (if we choose to play that way) without hitting 3 macros.

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Originally Posted by Jackstin

Don't think they should go full spellcast route. As far as I'm concerned, automated midcast etc is full on cheating.

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I don't think they should design a system where some gear is only useful precast, some gear is only useful midcast, and some gear is only useful after the cast if they don't want to implement a way to automate those changes. I know we're all used to it, but how does hitting 2 macros to change our gear for actions (and then 2 macros to change back) make the game more enjoyable? How does having to macro gear instead of automating it make the game more enjoyable? Why does SE keep adding equipment that is inconsistent with the design of the game unless you automate equipment swaps?


Take Waltzes, for instance. The largest benefit of Waltzes over Cures (back when they were actually used) was that Waltzes are a close approximation of instant and cures take time. However, it takes time to swap to Waltz Potency equipment using in-game macros before using your Waltz and this really closes the gap between -Spellcasting Time Cures and Waltzes. Should you be TPing in your Waltz Potency gear when in a healing role? Should you just not bother getting Waltz Potency gear that you can't TP in? I'd hope that the answer to both of these questions is "No." The game needs an automated midcast (which is faster than vanilla macros) in order for the Waltz design to be reasonable.


Take Weapon Skills, for instance. People typically TP and WS in different sets, but in high Haste situations people with in-game macros end up TPing in their WS sets more often than they think (especially if they're using two macro swaps for WS gear). A round here or there, but in high haste situations any round in your WS set is going to take twice as long as in your TP set (75% Haste in TP set -> 50% Haste in WS set). If you have a 4-hit build in Voidwatch and one round every cycle is in your WS set, you take as long to get TP as a 5-hit (and do one melee swing less damage). If moving from a 5-hit to a 4-hit effectively increases your WS frequency (and thus net WS damage) by 33%, you have to wonder if it's even worth swapping gear for WSs on the vanilla client in high Haste situations. If you automate the swaps, it's entirely repeatable and you can be sure that your gear switches back to TP before the WS delay ends.

You don't need entire gear swaps to make use of precast and midcast. Just a couple will do, and are why the pieces exist in the first place. If you're trying to argue that this game has essentially been designed for spellcast you're kidding yourself.

On a slightly different note, how do you think the new UI will affect this, specifically the hot bar?

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Originally Posted by Jackstin

You don't need entire gear swaps to make use of precast and midcast.

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Then you're doing it wrong.

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Originally Posted by Jackstin

You don't need entire gear swaps to make use of precast and midcast. Just a couple will do, and are why the pieces exist in the first place. If you're trying to argue that this game has essentially been designed for spellcast you're kidding yourself.

On a slightly different note, how do you think the new UI will affect this, specifically the hot bar?

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I don't think he was suggesting that they designed it for spellcast. I think he was implying that they did not take precautions when designing gear. I'm sure from SEs standpoint, we should all be making decisions about what gear to wear based on only being able to swap a few pieces. Unfortunately, that has not been the case for a very long time and probably never will be again. So when they design gear that is only good for fastcast and gear that has magic attack for example, instead of having people put the piece they like the best into their 5 gear lines, people make 2 macros or use spellcast, where SE thought they would choose between the two.

More specifically it makes no sense when you posses both the fast cast and the MAB peice to not use them both, its similar to choosing between haste gear and ws gear as a melee, why would you tp in ws gear or ws in tp gear because of a macro limitation?

People have long since decided max/min is the way to go, aka utilizing (or abusing depending on your stand point) the hell out of all gear that enhances anything you do.

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Originally Posted by Nala

More specifically it makes no sense when you posses both the fast cast and the MAB peice to not use them both, its similar to choosing between haste gear and ws gear as a melee, why would you tp in ws gear or ws in tp gear because of a macro limitation?

People have long since decided max/min is the way to go, aka utilizing (or abusing depending on your stand point) the hell out of all gear that enhances anything you do.

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Basically boils down to this: They think you should have to choose the most important stat and stick with that. Spellcast and or intricate macro designs disagree.

I personally think they should both add gear that is good for multiple purposes (like the new stave) and give people more macro lines. Some better storage couldn't hurt either.

When scars first came out i thought they might have started to get it, gear that was almost if not nearly all purpose (empyrean sets), but they have since deviated and gone back to extremely situational gear again. for example enhance cure potency received, that necklace that gives slow when charmed, enhance cursna effect items, did they expect people to full time these peices??

Most of them did not offer any other support stats either, making their only use that exact situation. Further more how did they expect us to properly utilize these pieces? without spell cast to automate swapping them in for you, "one second on that cure, i need to get my curepotrec gear on..." furthermore considering spell cast is reactionary by itself you'd have to use another program on top of it to detect incoming outside influences (i could be mistaken i have no experience with that other program)

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

Basically boils down to this: They think you should have to choose the most important stat and stick with that. Spellcast and or intricate macro designs disagree.

I personally think they should both add gear that is good for multiple purposes (like the new stave) and give people more macro lines. Some better storage couldn't hurt either.

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I agree. People are so obsessed with maximising performance that they are willing to resort to cheating. On the other hand most of the gear we see is situational, and given our gear swap options are so limited, it is little wonder that people do use windower. More multipurpose gear and a few more macro lines is exactly what I would prescribe.

But honestly, spellcast is an abuse. If SE gave us the kind of options that are being asked for in this thread, I could see a large number of people giving up on windower. However I don't see the spellcasters ever giving up their power.