Small Request to Raise Dagger's Base Damage a tad.

If you are happy with the way you play thf, good for you.

I'm certainly not happy.

VW is the current endgame, and it completely excludes thf. Out of idk, 70 runs, i was only able to use thf 4 times. My love for the job was what kept me going throughout all these years of FF, and i can't even play it right now. Guess what? i quit the game (again). I was not having fun, why stay? I would even bear not getting drops on VW, and i can count the stuff i did get with 1 hand, but not being able to play thf was simply too much.

You're making me sound mean ):< not cool.

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Thing is, for most non-VW stuff, I can duo my THF with my WHM alt just fine.

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So can i and every other THF Worth their damn. Does that mean THF is fine? no, a f**king RDM and WHM Could duo just fine. Anything + a WHM Can "duo just fine".

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The mob dies quicker than a DNC soloing it

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A Duo killing faster than someone solo? Youdontsay.jpg. Plus, this is plain wrong unless you're rocking a Mandau and comparing yourself to a full pink DNC. Equally geared and buffed point for point DNC has better DPS than THF Due to having a higher Dual Wield Trait and Haste Samba, Only thing that would mix it up is if the THF Had Mandau, which DNC Can't wear, But Thwast comes close.

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my droprates are better

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better than what? No Thf? Of course. Better than a /thf? yah. no one denies that, ever. Its just the difference is so negligible only people so deep in denial act like it does anything worth mentioning.

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and she never dies due to hate.

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Again, Anyone with a fourth of a brain can Duo WHM + ???. This doesn't make THF Good.

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In lowman stuff, I more than hold my own against SAMs, WARs, etc.

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Then they suck, Plain and simple. This is just facts, SAMs and WARs are far superior in damage than a THF. THF Isn't left so far in the dust they can't make out the WAR's shoes, But they aren't catching up anytime.

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I improve droprates

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So does a /THF.

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open/close skillchains often

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Who can't? This is called a weaponskill function, not a job function. How is this relevant?

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proc in dyna often

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So can every other job.

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can tank

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So can any DD-hybrid Job. Most of them much better.

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can pull

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So can everyone.

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Sure, I may be an idiot, but you suck at playing THF if you think the job is really so poor in potential right now.

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I'm a better Thief than you can ever hope to be. A good Thief isn't about comparing yourself to mediocre DD and acting like you're top dog. Its about recognizing all flaws and strengths of the job, and knowing where you fall short, and where improvement is due.

You're a bad THF because you're too blinded by what i can only assume is the sh*t you're so full of to see Thief may be 'Acceptable' at the same tasks most jobs in the game can perform, but they themselves have nothing truly unique enough to keep them useful.

Thief is a dying job, and Its relevance is fading out. SE needs to stop trying to "fix" TH and give Thief more uses than being a one trick pony. TH is nice, But focus on other aspects of the job would be nice too.

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I guess the official THF forums are full of morons. Back to elsewhere! *WHOOOSH*

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And you open by saying "you kids are cute"? You're acting like a 13 year old, Or one of those 20-something people who think they're "All grown up" because they can buy alcohol now.

No, No I think you're being defensive right now. You're attempting to hide your embarrassment by using humor, or acting like its not effecting you. Basic defense and cop-out mechanism, Especially when one knows they have no footing to stand on.

I see it all the time, Someone goes in somewhere, spouts something stupid, gets called out, then they run away calling everyone else dumb. Shouldn't be ashamed of the fact you're simply reacting how any upset person would.

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Originally Posted by Sfchakan

Thing is, for most non-VW stuff, I can duo my THF with my WHM alt just fine. The mob dies quicker than a DNC soloing it, my droprates are better, and she never dies due to hate.

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Of course a Thief is going to kill faster than a Dancer when there's someone in white pants around to cast Dia II and Haste. You know what would kill even faster and get statistically comparable drops? A Dancer/Warrior able to full-time Saber Dance and Haste Samba and never use Waltzes because of a White Mage/Thief's presence.

Your comparison of solo to duo conditions is like comparing one orange to two oranges and noting that the two oranges have more orange-ness.

Saying that a job meant to be in a party situation should be on par with dnc and nin or heavy DD jobs is just silly. That's like saying brd should be able to do the same. Thf is reliant on part situations to do well over and over...not just spike damage once every 3 minutes. And if you look at thf in a party situation, like duo dynamis or abyssea, they are superior when they can abuse trick attack and sneak attack. The job doesn't need anything really. Maybe add a little bit of triple attack or something? Even though thf gets 19% in a decent tp set >.>

SE already tried to close the gap with passive traits. You'll notice a lot of single-handed weapon users get some sort of +crit trait, fencer, etc, nowadays. In addition, single-handed weapon users can get additional DPS by dual-wielding. As far as a DMG bonus on daggers, SE did that 5-6 years ago already.

I don't think this needs to be done at all.

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Originally Posted by Tinuviel

SE already tried to close the gap with passive traits. You'll notice a lot of single-handed weapon users get some sort of +crit trait, fencer, etc, nowadays. In addition, single-handed weapon users can get additional DPS by dual-wielding. As far as a DMG bonus on daggers, SE did that 5-6 years ago already.

I don't think this needs to be done at all.

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Just to correct you, Fencer only works when a person uses 1 weapon IE: Main hand...not when using Dual Wield. Of which war gets the highest tier of, bst 2nd highest tier, brd 3rd highest and anyone else only tier I when subbing /war. If you don't believe me then feel free to log on, get on your war and read the passive description for yourself.

Also, the +crit trait is a Crit Att Bonus. Yes thf gets highest, dnc 2nd highest, and war/drk with 3rd, but this depends on the jobs ability to reach the ideal cRatio to make sure their crit rate allows for them to crit often enough to make use for it in DoT while maintaining good pdif and acc rating also...something a 2hander can do better than 1hander. I believe the only reason why thf ended up with the highest iteration of the trait was so that SE wouldn't have to rework Sneak Attack/Trick Attack damage calculations to keep up with the increase of level cap or to avoid adding SAII/TAII with higher dex/agi conversion rates than SA/TA. Which still isn't that big of a gain on any of the endgame content to make anyone say "Hey, you know what we need that we don't have? A thf...can someone switch to thf?" Only time I ever go on thf to any vwnm is Pil to pull hate off tank for terror/doom move.....or cause someone has this superstition that TH actually affects what pops in their chest. Isn't cause I have a relic or my dmg output...obviously isn't for procs I bring to the table (oooh dagger WS procs that the dnc can do + bring ja procs over me and cure better than if I was /dnc).

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Originally Posted by Fupafighter

Saying that a job meant to be in a party situation should be on par with dnc and nin or heavy DD jobs is just silly.

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This imaginary person running around screaming at everyone for THF to be the best at everything ever is getting annoying, I need to shut this person up! >_>

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That's like saying brd should be able to do the same.

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No not really. BRD is clearly defined as a support role, It has some weapon prowess, but so does WHM, BLM, RDM, and SMN. THF is a Hybrid(TH/Enmity) DD.

THF has Traits and abilities that define it as a DD, SA, TA, Assassin, Triple Attack. While BRD has abilities designed to buff others.

Its an okay comparison, but its not as "Grey area" as you may it sound is all.

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Thf is reliant on part situations to do well over and over...not just spike damage once every 3 minutes.

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Yah, THF is a heavy party job, I'm actually okay with this to be honest. I wish i could use SA more, But Its not a big deal.

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And if you look at thf in a party situation, like duo dynamis or abyssea, they are superior when they can abuse trick attack and sneak attack.

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No they aren't unless you're comparing them to gimp DDs, No offense. They don't even come close. SA and TA at best make their WS's as Strong or almost as Strong as a Ukko or Shoha. sure, my SA Mercy can beat most Shoha/Ukko's in terms of consistancy, But Ukkos and shoha will peak higher because they have far more damage potential.

And don't rely on a JA To be active.

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The job doesn't need anything really.

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I firmly disagree, the only reason THF Can be called a job at this point is TH, Which as it goes higher, it gets less of a boost. If a NIN had TH3, or DNC had TH3, you think people would low-man with THF? Hell no.

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Maybe add a little bit of triple attack or something? Even though thf gets 19% in a decent tp set >.>

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More Triple attack would be nice... We got Triple Attack II but it was only +1%.... Like seriously. My general TP Set up puts me around 20% Triple Attack, Ring/Head/Feet/Merits/base.

I still think adding a buff to TH would be nice. Doesn't need to be anything insanse, But give us a Buff with increasing potency based on TH Level, Power up THF for doing a good part of its job (TH Whoring!)

To anyone who claims they 'hold their own vs a 2H DD.

In hate-capped situations, as a THF you'll be under the mis-interpretation that you're holding your own agains 2-handers because the mob turns to face you more often. The reason is simple though... you hit it more often^^

When you go up against a vere MNK, you'll understand that you suck. Especially when they /war and take less damage than you. It's sad, so sad, but my averagely geared (haste capped and no gear swaps) MNK would out DD my very well geared (and inv full of gear swapping equip) THF.

It's because my THF offers TH >.>

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

No they aren't unless you're comparing them to gimp DDs, No offense. They don't even come close. SA and TA at best make their WS's as Strong or almost as Strong as a Ukko or Shoha. sure, my SA Mercy can beat most Shoha/Ukko's in terms of consistancy, But Ukkos and shoha will peak higher because they have far more damage potential.

And don't rely on a JA To be active.

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This isn't my experience at all. I'm used to tie with good heavy DDs on low haste situations. If it's a lazy heavy dd i beat them so bad it's not even fun. I guess i could be biased tho. This experience comes mostly from new dyna at level 90 (only played for 1.5month at level 99 cap). There were certain aspects to being a mithra thf back then (mainly capping crits very easily - i don't think any other job could achieve it) that were overshadowed with new level caps.

Anyway, Idk if you remember, but Motenten and i posted some spreadsheet numbers on thf vs war a while back, and it really did show our competitiveness in this scenario.

SA/TA recast is a small bottleneck with haste spell only. We get tp in about 20 secs but we can only use a stacked WS every <30 secs. There is hardly time to put an evis/exen inbetween. It could make sense, but if it's an event like dyna, mobs die fast and SA/TA recast ticks between the pulls. Still, at super haste we get tp under 10 secs and we can actually use 2 ws between the stacked ones. This imo is where the problem is at. It really breaks our average ws damage and our damage as a whole.

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Originally Posted by Laphine

This isn't my experience at all. I'm used to tie with good heavy DDs on low haste situations.

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Not to sound rude, But if thats the case, Those DD's are slacking or aren't as good as they/you think they are. This shouldn't ever really be the case. They may simply not have known they were being parsed and didn't bother trying :P

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Anyway, Idk if you remember, but Motenten and i posted some spreadsheet numbers on thf vs war a while back, and it really did show our competitiveness in this scenario.

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I remember it, but not the specifics :X