Formal petition: Change the billing method or lose your playerbase.

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Originally Posted by Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

And what if doing that meant they had to raise the monthly fee? Would you still be happy with being able to pay for the exact amount of Crysta if it also meant paying $14.50 a month (with mules being $1.25 each)?

Payment processing costs money. Between recent hacking attacks and new banking laws, it now costs more money. There has to be a trade-off, and this is it.

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Uh, wut? This has nothing to do with a price increase on FFXI.

Crysta on the JP client is able to be bought in exact amounts which reduces waste. If I have one character active, im looking at 15/month anyway because that's as close to 12.95 as you can get.

While SE may have had to change 3rd party billers for financial reasons, there is no reason why one group of individuals can buy the exact amount of crysta to pay for XI while the others have to play overshoot which translates to free money for SE.

What the current system shapes up to be is a ploy where SE scoops up leftover cash across all the accounts active. Two dollars here and there adds up to alot and Square is counting on that.

For gamecards you buy in stores I can see set amounts (5, 10, 20, 50, 100) but for online purchases? Cmon SE, really?

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Originally Posted by Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

And what if doing that meant they had to raise the monthly fee? Would you still be happy with being able to pay for the exact amount of Crysta if it also meant paying $14.50 a month (with mules being $1.25 each)?

Payment processing costs money. Between recent hacking attacks and new banking laws, it now costs more money. There has to be a trade-off, and this is it.

You can argue for a different trade-off, but you can't have your cake and eat it too, not in this economy.



It is not your problem only if you have absolutely no interest in if they're able to maintain FFXI. Whatever Square-Enix's obligations may or may not be, they do not include operating FFXI at a loss for your sake.

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i would have GLADLY paid an extra 2 dollars a month for the service to have stayed the same rather then jump through hoops to pay

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Originally Posted by Babygyrl

i would have GLADLY paid an extra 2 dollars a month for the service to have stayed the same rather then jump through hoops to pay

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Same.

Superfluous text.

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

Well, quitting might make you lose 5 dollars as a person, but SE when they shut down servers would get about 2 million dollars in leftover cash that they'll just put in their pockets and say "Thanks, suckers!"

Not to mention this initial payment when everyone pays for a couple of months will make it seem like SE as a company is doing good, and give a fake stock raise on the market. So not only are they attempting to fool their customers, they want to fool investors as well.

And yet the solution is so simple. Let people pay the amount they are charged for. Doing that will make you seem like a good company, and not some loan shark company that is out after stealing money.

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Originally Posted by PlayOnline Member Agreement

3.2 Termination.

(a) Your PlayOnline user account and any rights you may have under this Agreement (including those you may have under any other agreement related to your use of PlayOnline) will immediately and automatically terminate upon your breach of any provision of this Agreement, including (without limitation) your violation of any Rule.
(b) You may terminate this Agreement at any time by canceling your PlayOnline user account and by ceasing all use of PlayOnline and all related services. If your PlayOnline user account is terminated by SEI for any reason, you will not be able to reactivate the terminated user account again.
(c) SEI reserves the right to terminate PlayOnline Service in whole or in part for any reason with or without prior notice.
(d) SEI MAY SUSPEND, TERMINATE, MODIFY, OR DELETE ANY PLAYONLINE ACCOUNT AT ANY TIME, WITH ANY REASON OR NO REASON, WITH OR WITHOUT NOTICE.

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Once again they could make you pay a full month and terminate you and say "Thanks, suckers!", and you now think the 5$ make the whole thing a difference? When you have a BANK Account in Real Life they ask you to have a leftover in it, do you every month remove all money in it just in case your bank close?

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Originally Posted by Babygyrl

i would have GLADLY paid an extra 2 dollars a month for the service to have stayed the same rather then jump through hoops to pay

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The thing is, you effectivelyt ARE getting a rate hike. Haven't run all the numbers, but no matter what, you will be paying an extra 1/6 billing cycle per year now (365 days/30 days vs 12 months at once per month).

If after this change, you are no longer able ot pay with your local currency, you may be subject to a currency exchange fee (5.9% for C&B, or whatever your financial institution of choice may charge).

If you elect to do it through Crysta...it takes 100 cycles at $12.95 to hit a flat multiple of $5---totaling $1295 over about 8.219 years, or 98.63 months--which on the original once per month scheme would total $1277.26 in fees. So, during those 2 years, you will be paying slightly more per minute to play in comparison to what you are currently paying.

No matter how you run the numbers, you will potentially be paying more per unit for the same amount of play time if you maintain your active status 24/7/365. SE gets more money in both the short term from crysta users, and in the long term from those who maintain their accounts full time.

Also...if you opt to use the game cards you have to pay your local taxes on your purchase, which for me would be a 6% increase in cost directly to me. Not to mention the added expense of traveling to a local store if one isn't close enough for you to walk to ( I have a CVS and a Walgreen's across the street, so I may luck out on that front).

But aside from all that... the simple fact remains that for 2/3 of the games regions are having one payment option that would make almost ALL of the complaints go away completely scrapped with no justification for doing so. The GUI, Scripting, Payment processor (which IS a third party contract btw, SE is NOT the Credit Card clearing house, these go through a specific company that charges set rates for processing the cards)--all of this already set up and being used for the JP clients EXCLUSIVELY so the only thing effectively affecting JP regional users is the more frequent billing of once every 30 days instead of once a month.

Everyone else is being forced to restructure their payment options for no reason. Our current methods COULD be maintained and the Click&Buy, UltimatePay, and Crysta options could have all been fully implemented in parallel--JUST LIKE THEY ARE DOING FOR THE JP REGION.

THAT is the big issue.

As such....my accounts will time out when they turn off the switch on this, as I am not transferring until either they remedy this disparity between the regions, or some new content is added that I feel justifies the additional risk/effort/cost to continue playing.

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Originally Posted by Ilax

Once again they could make you pay a full month and terminate you and say "Thanks, suckers!", and you now think the 5$ make the whole thing a difference? When you have a BANK Account in Real Life they ask you to have a leftover in it, do you every month remove all money in it just in case your bank close?

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that is one of the dumbest comparisons I have ever read.

Are you sure you know how banks work? FDIC-insured US banks offer you up to $100,000 of your money back in case the bank closes, and at any rate a physical, federal-backed bank is generally a much more reliable institution than a third party online payment processing center. If you live in a place where a parallel can be drawn between them, then you have my sympathies. FYI, Banks also don't force you to write checks or make purchases in set increments of $5 even if the goods or services you wish to purchase do not tally up to exact multiples of 5.

No, it's not the end of the world, but yes, it is annoying and not appealing to many consumers. Saying that "life isn't fair" and "deal with it" defeats the purpose of having customer feedback, which promotes the possibility of improving both the customer's experience as well as the company's business.

Anyway, I agree to and support the suggested changes listed in this petition. I feel it's unfair that we are forced to choose between overpaying monthly on this new crysta system or having to go with an untrustworthy third party site, when as mentioned there is another group of individuals who can use the same system without having to overpay.

I personally would support SE having to increase the subscription fee to find a better alternative than having to go through these current methods.

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I personally would support SE having to increase the subscription fee to find a better alternative than having to go through these current methods.

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Just no thanks, i rather have them monopolize my 5$ then increase the monthly bill... wtf seriously. Did you guy take time to read the new FAQ about C&B automatic billing system with CC? They been clear:

Q: Will customers who pay via ClickandBuy be subject to any additional fees?

A: No, customers who have chosen ClickandBuy as their payment method will NOT incur any additional fees when paying for subscriptions.

You only pay additional fee form C&B: if a customer chooses to store funds within their ClickandBuy E-Money Account.

If you just don't trust C&B (As i do....) The yes, "deal with it" and take alternative with paypal and the problem solve.

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Originally Posted by Ilax

Just no thanks, i rather have them monopolize my 5$ then increase the monthly bill... wtf seriously. Did you guy take time to read the new FAQ about C&B automatic billing system with CC? They been clear:

Q: Will customers who pay via ClickandBuy be subject to any additional fees?

A: No, customers who have chosen ClickandBuy as their payment method will NOT incur any additional fees when paying for subscriptions.

You only pay additional fee form C&B: if a customer chooses to store funds within their ClickandBuy E-Money Account.

If you just don't trust C&B (As i do....) The yes, "deal with it" and take alternative with paypal and the problem solve.

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but, if your currency suddenly becomes subject to an exchange rate penalty now, then you will be getting nerfed there--if not from C&B, maybe from your financial institution or the clearing house handling the transaction.

Also, the change in the billing cycle is a slight increase in the monthly rate:

12.95 X 12=155.40
12.95 X (365/30)=157.56

$3.16 a year isn't much, but it is an increase. Effectivly about a 1.389% increase per monthy in the long run.

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but, if your currency suddenly becomes subject to an exchange rate penalty now, then you will be getting nerfed there--if not from C&B, maybe from your financial institution or the clearing house handling the transaction.

Also, the change in the billing cycle is a slight increase in the monthly rate:

12.95 X 12=155.40
12.95 X (365/30)=157.56

$3.16 a year isn't much, but it is an increase. Effectivly about a 1.389% increase per monthy in the long run.

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Again is the only fee increase SE made in past 8yr... Note all MMO work that way, just SE was different on that.

For new payment system, i also wan to point... before if you wanted to help a good friend to pay his monthly fee (due to unemployment or w/e it is the reason) you had to log on his account and enter you Credit Card number, and then what happen if that guy refuse to remove you credit card for other month??? You locked to pay for him till your card expire, or have to cancel you credit card etc... tons of fun...

Look now... you can log on your friend account.... Buy 2,000 Crysta with paypal and log out, and Bingo, no credit card locked, no worry for next month, if you still wan pay for him next month, repeat the same precess...

I see more convenient in the new system then any inconvenient, but seem everyone just focus on the tiny inconvenient that is causing. I doubt SE will loose income with this new system, they will actually increase they income big time.

The problem isn't the implementation of C&B and Ultimatepay/Crysta...

IT IS THE REMOVAL OF THE 3DS/VbV DIRECT CC PAY OPTION FROM EVERYONE OUTSIDE THE JP REGION.


Edit:
for those that haven't seen it yet (or otherwise forgot), here is the JP help page for the transfer, through Google Translate:
http://translate.googleusercontent.c...31aAKy-SQVuVrw

Scroll down to section 7. Notice it is basically to select payment method. It's graphics so not translated, but they get option for CC or Crysta--note it is just a standard MC/VISA logo. Now go to section 8b:If you choose a credit card. Note that they can put their CC information directly in, and also note the 3DS and VbV logos in the lower panel. Also note the text under those graphics that did translate:

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「クレジットカード」「Crysta」から利用されるお支払方法を選択し、「次へ」をクリックしてください。 "Credit card" "Crysta" and select the payment method used by "Next" Please click on.

※ ※ 「クレジットカード」は、Visa、MasterCardの本人認証サービス（3Dセキュア）に対応したカードがご利用いただけます。 "Credit Card", Visa, personal authentication services for MasterCard (3D Secure) available card with.

※ ※ 「Crysta」はVisa、MasterCard、JCBの本人認証サービス（3Dセキュア）に対応したクレジットカード、およびウェブマネーでチャージすることができます。 "Crysta" are Visa, MasterCard, personal authentication services for JCB (3D secure) credit card with you and to charge money on the web.

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クレジットカード番号、有効期限、セキュリティコードを入力し「次へ」をクリックしてください。 Credit card number, expiration date, security code, enter the "Next" please click on the.

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Essentially, they get to continue doing what we are doing now in addition to using Crysta.


Now, contrast that to what happens in the NA version:
http://www.playonline.com/homeus/polshift/help.html

At step 7, you get to choose either Crysta or Credit/Debit Card via Click and Buy--note that this step shows the C&B logo, not the generic Visa/MC like on the JP page. Now look at step 8b. You have to go through Click and Buy--no direct processing for 3DS or VbV cards.