100% PDT for PET is plain BS.

This is what I see whenever I see Ilax make a post trying to further their point...

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Originally Posted by Ilax

And yet all i hear is comment about how BST absolutly need this -100% PDT, witch is yet again another BS argument, same argument could be apply to many job in abyssea.

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Translation = "I hate BST"

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And again as i stated and ill will say it again, if is so correct to allow a BST to have -100% PDT then why not SMN? Who gonna care since they going to kill hell quick.

Hope you understand more my point, because no i am not saying give back SMN -100% PDT, nor i am saying i hate BST job, nor i am saying i hate wait in abyssea because i am a jerk and i rent the zone tonight and everyone have to leave when i am present.

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Translation = "Although I say I don't hate BST, I truly truly despise BST and all they stand for! When I see a BST in the same Abyssea zone as me, my skin crawls in disgust! So much so that I make troll posts on the official forums in the hopes that the Devs see it and nerf BSTs to hell! Viva la resistance!!1!11one!1!"

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Hope this time was more clear. -100% PDT = not right, end of story. (add all other frustration about it is optional, idk if you say the job is FAIL and need to use it, that is so subjective, all depend how you play the job my friend.)

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Translation - "It is TOTALLY COOL for a job that is not BST to have -100% PDT, but if it's BST that has it then it's NOT cool. Oh, by the way....did I mention I really really hate BST?"

Summary.....not much of one, except we all wish you'd just go away Ilax. You're starting to remind me of Feiwong. Would you like to be compared to Feiwong??? With your "CRUSADE" against BST? How about I just call you Feiwong from now on? Yep, that's your new name. Feiwong. Enjoy it!

Tasteless.

OP is on the slow side, but comparing people to Feiwong only serves to diminish the impact of Feiwong himself. Feiwong is Feiwong, and the OP is nowhere near that bad.

You don't see me calling Cyr "Starcade".

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Tasteless.

OP is on the slow side, but comparing people to Feiwong only serves to diminish the impact of Feiwong himself. Feiwong is Feiwong, and the OP is nowhere near that bad.

You don't see me calling Cyr "Starcade".

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Tasteless?

Here's what's tasteless. Ilax's original post.

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Originally Posted by Siviard

Tasteless?

Here's what's tasteless. Ilax's original post.

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People are still discussing the OP? Aside from the OP that is.

Then let this abomination of a thread die.

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No, not the issue. Look at the title. Look at what the OP proposed (opening post, not opening poster). His motivation wasn't the issue

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When you demand a nerf your reason for wanting that nerf IS the issue and the Original Poster has several times stated things to the effect of "because they can do just hold things". Nobody is misunderstanding them here.

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Originally Posted by Siviard

Then let this abomination of a thread die.

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There are plenty of discussions related to the OP going on right now that don't directly involve the OP. No one's going to make a new thread just to discuss tangents.

To Square Enix. This thread is by no means the voice of the community and mearly the ravings perpetuated by the smallest of the smallest minorities and should not be taken as a reflection of the community at whole. Keep in mind that complainers often to not have any legitimate concerns and are mearly the most vocal. Please support legitimate concerns and keep this game from being ruined for everyone by complainers.
~Thank you.

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Originally Posted by GlobalVariable

When you demand a nerf your reason for wanting that nerf IS the issue and the Original Poster has several times stated things to the effect of "because they can do just hold things". Nobody is misunderstanding them here.

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Who cares what the OP wants? See here:

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

People are still discussing the OP? Aside from the OP that is.

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Why make another thread that addresses the same issue? He never even said that was the sole reason. He mentioned it, people disagreed, or rather, agreed that it was an issue, but a different one. This thread is still about PDT, which imo defies any game logic, and is imbalanced across the job board.

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Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji

This thread is by no means the voice of the community and mearly the ravings perpetuated by the smallest of the smallest minorities and should not be taken as a reflection of the community at whole. Keep in mind that complainers often to not have any legitimate concerns and are mearly the most vocal.

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This holds true for almost all of your posts I've seen since these forums were opened. Ironically, more than for this thread, if you can look past the OP.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

Who cares what the OP wants?

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My post was directed to that person and they responded and you keep trying to tell me its not relevant. Their motivation is directly relate dot my post at them. Quit twisting logic trying to white knight them.

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Originally Posted by GlobalVariable

My post was directed to that person and they responded and you keep trying to tell me its not relevant. Their motivation is directly relate dot my post at them. Quit twisting logic trying to white knight them.

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I'm not trying to white-knight them, I'm trying to ignore them, and would hope for others to do the same thing to keep the relevance of the thread up, because the issue at hand does actually have substance.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

I'm not trying to white-knight them, I'm trying to ignore them, and would hope for others to do the same thing to keep the relevance of the thread up, because the issue at hand does actually have substance.

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Then ignore both posts and keep you own discussion on track instead of this endless quoting. If the op tries to claim I'm just not understanding them when I disagree with their reasoning I'm going to keep replying to that and I'm not going to care what you think the thread should be about.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

Who cares what the OP wants? See here:



Why make another thread that addresses the same issue? He never even said that was the sole reason. He mentioned it, people disagreed, or rather, agreed that it was an issue, but a different one. This thread is still about PDT, which imo defies any game logic, and is imbalanced across the job board.



This holds true for almost all of your posts I've seen since these forums were opened. Ironically, more than for this thread, if you can look past the OP.

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You are not considering the implications at all of 100% pdt on a PET, or maybe you just wouldn't know.

You cannot Cure bomb a pet like a whm. doesn't matter how much pdt pet has when master dies.
There are plenty of mobs w/ Aura, enfeebles, DoT, magic nuking, spawned adds, or special moves that just ignore this.

You are looking at the number and thinking of how it would affect a player instead of a pet.

You just keep harping on how its broken for the number. You don't know, you haven't seen it. Does it render bst superior to other jobs for abyssea? Have you seen the threads raging over how awesome it is and that all players should play solo bst to get all their seals instead of getting a whm + mnk duo? nope, it took you over 5 months for bst hater to cry about it.
I could scream and yell just as much how razed ruins should be nerfed, or how counter is too high on a mnk, or how whm cures are too strong. This is completely in line w/ the capabilities of the job and how the jobs can perform in abyssea. The reason its being targeting is because it was a bst, not for any real concern over game balance.
I've seen you make the same empty post over an over. the number offends you.

Take a look at the real implications because you sound completely ignorant of how this actually affects game balance.

Personally, I think the OP just hated the fact that somebody could be killing the mob they wanted by themselves and not him.

If you really want to solo a NM, go level a pet job, and get off our backs.

Monks still take physical damage. /Thread.

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Originally Posted by Korpg

you really want to solo a NM, go level a pet job, and get off our backs.

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http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Fenrir/Ilax

Obvious exploit is obvious. How anyone can pull the "it's not a bug, it's a feature" card on something as broken as permanent Invincible is mind-boggling.

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Originally Posted by Ilax

http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Fenrir/Ilax

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Keywhore much?? Sure you might have 90 BST but you're obviously clueless about the job.

I didn't know you could key leech Crafting levels too.

Edit: Or Masamunes

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

I didn't know you could key leech Crafting levels too.

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*sigh* go away Greatguardian.

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Originally Posted by Siviard

*sigh* go away Greatguardian.

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Nah. 0123456789

Imagine if someone posted in 2008 ish "Sam needs a nerf , its too powerful". I can't even picture the drama and crying from something like that. In a way im happy these forums didn't start up till recently.

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Originally Posted by Heady

Imagine if someone posted in 2008 ish "Sam needs a nerf , its too powerful". I can't even picture the drama and crying from something like that. In a way im happy these forums didn't start up till recently.

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BST isn't too powerful though. If you think "Bst = overpowered" is the primary complaint from the faction of posters here who know what they're talking about and dislike 100% PDT, you're missing the point entirely.

23 pages for this...seriously?

Don't people have better things to do then police the community?

I really don't see an issue with BST being able to get their pet to 100% PDT inside abyssea (read that again, it's ONLY in Abyssea), if the mob kills the BST then it doesn't really matter what our pet can do.

Burning a pet job (or all your jobs) to 90, doesn't mean you understand anything about how the job functions and since you didn't know BST could do this before you ran into one actually doing it, means you don't understand everything else happening while the pet is at 100% PDT.

1. We can't even use the single most used job ability by our job at all in Abyssea, Charm, name 1 other job this happens to in Abyssea? Oh you can't can you?
2. It's ONLY in Abyssea, where everything is broken anyway, no where else can a BST achieve this and it's ONLY by using 2x Atma slots (which in return destroys our ability to do significant damage).
3. This only works with our pet at or below 50%.
4. This only works on NM's that don't have slip/DoT/Magical damage.
5. The BST themselves don't get the 100% PDT bouns.

Do I use a 100% PDT set for BST? No, I don't because with my style of play I don't need it.

Do I see an issue with it or see it as an exploit? No, no more then I see a Brew as being an exploit...I see 5 other issues we have to deal with while using everything we do to achieve the 100% PDT build.

In regards to 'why didn't SE patch all pets when they patched SMN'. To my understanding the SMN patch was done because it was a native issue, popped pet was 100% and had 100% PDT, they didn't need to change anything about gear/atma/etc. to achieve it.

To me it looks like you ran into a BST that was probably just seeing if they could solo it with that setup, the way you worded your original post, makes it sound like you're whining about a BST taking and soloing 'your' mob. For what it's worth, any BST that knows the job, knows damn well it's better to get a couple people to help proc then it is to waste countless hours soloing for no drops. The fact that an Eva build with Yully is generally more productive to solo then a 100% PDT build. You ran into an idiot, plain and simple.

Maybe, just maybe, SE left this as is, because sole JA that we relied on for song long was taken away (and the fact we have to jump through a bunch of hoops to even get this build), they chose to give us the ability to continue soloing as we did for so long? It's really ok to think outside your box every once in a while before you go screaming/whining that it's an exploit/bug/issue.

SE can take it away or they can keep it in, I don't care either way since I don't use it, if they do then the BST community will adapt yet again, like we always have (hello MPK patch/Zoo nerf).

You probably would have got a better reaction from the community, plainly asking a Dev why it was this way.

So....Dev's/Community Rep's, why is this functioning the way it is?

No , I get the point, just a drama comparison. While I do support the high bst -pdt, I didn't realize you could fully block something like 60k needles. That seems a bit extreme when something like Cactrot Rapido could easily have mowed you down if you didn't have enough targets phalanx, ss etc. before the cap increase.

Is it "broken"? probably. Is it ruining the game for the rest of us? Nope! Bst got shit on for the longest time. Let them have their little victories.

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Originally Posted by GlobalVariable

Oversimplifying which invites arguments that we have it to easy. You have to give up some stuff to achieve it. Losing room for atma that could have been DD based and/or gear that has to be specifically for it, like the mini expansion augment gear. And honestly going for a full 100% is in most cased not so hot, more efficient to go with some DD power and/or regen. Even at 100% You can't just afk and wait for a win like people seem to think. Several tp attacks ignore pdt even if we ignore other damage types for this argument like mercurial strike. And you know what? With ZERO pdt gear or atma I can solo Briareus (I won't becaus eI can't proc, but others have). Eva and regen and a couple pet food zeta. I've seen a nin/dnc solo it to. Frankly Utsusemi is more effective than a pdt setup if only because it blocks single target magic attacks.

This whole thread going on this long is absurd. Counter holding, not nerf a job. Mob rage was MADE for holding so lets buff that http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...ing-raged-mobs

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If you've been reading then you know that I have no -100% pdt, and have no plans to get it. I solo fine without it. It is simply 1 way bst can solo, not the only way, and arguably (as you just did) not even the best way. But it is there, and it is available to anyone that wants it. You simply have to do some work.

I know in this aby ez mode era working for something is a foreign concept to most players, but it is a viable way to get things done.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

I didn't know you could key leech Crafting levels too.

Edit: Or Masamunes

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WOOOOSH!!!

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Originally Posted by Korpg

Personally, I think the OP just hated the fact that somebody could be killing the mob they wanted by themselves and not him.

If you really want to solo a NM, go level a pet job, and get off our backs.

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or just about any other job for that matter...

100% PDT is a bit overboard. That being said, pet jobs have long been in need of help, and this is not an immediate threat to the balance of the game. So, should it be fixed? Eventually, but not until pet jobs are actually considered desirable.

i agree more than 50% pdt is retarded. Only a pld's 2hr or a pld using ochain or aegis should be able to exceed mdt or pdt 50%.

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Originally Posted by Runespider

So if I play a non-party job and have no friends I should be allowed to be invincible? There isn't even any skill to it, it's -100% pdt. Can go watch tv while the pet fights it.

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I heard -PDT also makes you immune to magic and magical TP moves. Confirm/Deny?

Personally, I would accept a nerf to PDT if and only if SE can swallow their pride, admit they screwed up majorly with the pet jobs and change them in a way that they can actually function in parties in ways that can be beneficial to the group while maintaining the jobs' theme.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

I heard -PDT also makes you immune to magic and magical TP moves. Confirm/Deny?

Personally, I would accept a nerf to PDT if and only if SE can swallow their pride, admit they screwed up majorly with the pet jobs and change them in a way that they can actually function in parties in ways that can be beneficial to the group while maintaining the jobs' theme.

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....yeah. Make a soloable job unable to solo anymore. That's what those types of jobs need!

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Originally Posted by Korpg

....yeah. Make a soloable job unable to solo anymore. That's what those types of jobs need!

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That's not what he said.

So far I think the essence of the thread is that most people recognize physical damage immunity is broken, but we should hang on to it regardless, so BSTs and PUPs can continue to solo. Yet some of the same people say it's easy to solo even with a lower than 100% PDT reduction, just that it takes more effort. Well, I guess that's a difference of opinion then, because I think it should be a challenge. It's not just inconvenient, if more Atma have to be focused on keeping the pet alive, damage is lower and hate becomes more of an issue (not only because of lower damage, but because the pet also takes damage, thus loses enmity). Sounds to me like it would be harder, yet still nowhere near impossible.

Why would I want life for BST to be harder? I don't, I don't care at all for BST, I don't play it, don't have it and don't know many people who do (although two of those are 100% PDT BSTs too). I simply think the arguments are flawed. "BST needs some loving too" isn't convincing in my eyes. I know of its capabilities even without this and I know it's still a great soloer, both inside and outside of Abyssea. But if it does in fact need some loving, this isn't the right way to go about it. It's a broken game mechanic and there's nothing else to it.

Most everyone that is for this are pet jobs abusing it to easily solo NMs. I mean I don't mind people being able to solo, but this takes almost zero skill, no danger and it's just plain retarded.

The amount of physical and magic damage they can mitigate is insane and is totally broken, any excuses they can muster and nonsense. Saying "poor bst and smn had it so hard...let them have this, they need it!" Nonsense, no job needs such a heavy exploit, let them have a decent enough -damage number but not this high.

It's not even damage - once it reaches 100%, its damage annulment, which is broken. I'm just waiting for the rest of us to realize it, all level bst (which will take how long? a week tops?) and start using a few BSTs to invincible hold NMs while we proc. Sure they won't be immune to magic and you can't target them with cure spells but, hey, thats why you would get more than one. Evasion tanking would be a thing of the past.

They may as well remove exp loss while they're at it, as no one will ever die. Remove White Mages and all curing spells because they'll be useless too.

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i agree more than 50% pdt is retarded. Only a pld's 2hr or a pld using ochain or aegis should be able to exceed mdt or pdt 50%.

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That isn't balanced either, since you can cure a PLD and not a pet.

The most balanced solution is lower PDT on pets and make them curable. Then a pet would be a PLD without hate tools. (except for snarl I guess)

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Originally Posted by Runespider

let them have a decent enough -damage number but not this high.

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Hows somewhere from 66 to 75 as a total cap for gear+atma/magical effect for everyone, not including burtang's ability go go higher to what I hear is around 87% sound to you ? I'm curious.



And I want to try and clarify some things to some posters. I hope I'm coherent, sorry but I'm sleepy.

Hate is a non issue. With zero atma and no pdt gear keeping hate on a pet isn't hard at all for any of the 3 pet jobs in solo situations, they've been doing it since before abyssea came along. Would prolly kill the trigger happy blm in my low man group though /snicker. And to be blunt the folks saying they "need" 100% are likely doing it wrong and gimping themselves. I find I need around 70% to not spend a fortune, and being a miser I prefer slightly more for mobs that I don't need evasion for.

Plenty of TP attacks are unaffected by -pdt (mercurial strike isn't even magic based and will ignore -pdt) and my pet can't utsusemi or fanatics drink its way out of the things joe average DD can. A high pdt build, even 100%, is not the easy button win vs every mobs it is being made out to be. And no we do not gets tons of easy -mdt with our -pdt. Different combination of stuff if you want to deal with magic damage.

I'm not trying to argue for 100% here, I'm trying to argue against against 50% (and some shoddy reasoning earlier). And NOT as compensation for being "shafted" but rather the simple fact that there isn't any other form of damage mitigation available for a jug pet.

I'm reminded of complaints I've seen before about the size of my pet food heal, its on a much longer recast than on any cure so it needs to be larger. I think people who don't see why our -pdt going over 50 isn't so bad (again, I'm not demanding 100) similarly don't have all the facts in mind when they say this. I even have to choose between removing paralyze now or saving my reward command in case of low hp. I dunno the exact details but I presume other pet jobs have quirks to work around as well.

Please ignore people who whip out that logical fallacy that 2 wrongs somehow make a right, and I hope most of you guys can see there aren't just 2 sides in this.

Man I rambled a bit...I hope this doesn't spawn a string of quoting and re explaining when I get up (@.@); I need to get to bed I'm beat.

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Originally Posted by Zyeriis

Sure they won't be immune to magic and you can't target them with cure spells but, hey, thats why you would get more than one.

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About that. People keep saying BST still takes magic damage, which makes sense (on certain mobs, there's many mobs who don't posess any magical qualities at all), they forget to say that pets also take reduced magical damage as well. Not to mention some PDT items have also MDT on them (or rather, just general DT), and some MDT reduction only too. If you bothered, could even make 2x MDB axes, for additional magical damage mitigation.

And while you can't cast cure (which you won't need anywhere near as much as campared to normal players), you can still use Reward, for huge amounts of HP restored. And as was mentioned before, there's resummon of pets of course, and 4min10s really isn't much compared to how long they can survive (which is indefinitely on many mobs).

And why should a pet even be like a PLD? So a BST would be a PLD + healer + DD in one (not to mention damage is the primary source of enmity, and taking damage is the primary source of losing enmity, both of which pets are good at)? I remember at 75 two BSTs duod Hakutaku. They didn't have cure, they didn't have any of the gear they do now, they didn't have grossly overplayed PDT/MDT reduction. They still did what others were afraid to touch with an alliance. Of course it was hard and it probably took them some failed attempts before they got it right, but with the right amount of effort put in, they could do something that very few, if any, other job combinations could do duo, most people probably not even in a full party. And that's how I think it should be, they should be able to solo/duo things (although I'm not even convinced if that's how the job was intended, because it still has lots of party uses, more so than most jobs), but it should require some effort on their part. And obtaining the DT gear is neither hard (especially not for BST) nor very time consuming, apart from maybe Shepherd's Chain, which is luck based, and the least important item anyway.

Good grief.. what's with all the hating on BST? For the record, I have a 90 BST, but rarely use it, so didn't do a -DT build for it. Everyone is neglecting that BST has to pay to play each time. Can't charm in aby, have to use jug pets--and they can't use a refresh atma and spam cures on their pets: they have to use meds on their pets, and have to wait on an ability timer to do that. They also can't just recast/redeploy a free pet like other jobs.

And let's not forget the utility of -DT on petless jobs....

Granted, 100% is a bit overboard in the general scope of things and might need a slight adjustment, but it isn't like they have the ability to crank out 60K damage in like 90 seconds to essentially one shot an NM. BST who go this route are, after all, sacrificing more resources and efficiency for the durability factor that other jobs simply do not have to deal with and get by just fine with less -DT builds and less of a loss of resources along the way.