Your actions are making the entire FFXI community suffer

You got very little of that right. Basic research on the game wikis would show you what you need to know.

If you don't know where the mobs spawn or how to beat them, look it up. This shit's been out for a while, the strategies are out there.

Yes anyone can "just go plasm farm". To initiate the run there are requirements, but anybody (95+) can enter.

I cannot emphasize this enough for every aspect of this game - RESEARCH. If you're too lazy to go look up the basic information on how to accomplish your goals and instead expect other people to do even that modest amount of work for you how can you expect to ever get anything done?

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Originally Posted by Riggs

People are saying form your own party and kill nm's or plasma farm as if its the easiest thing in the world, many of these nm's require a certain strag to win, not been invited to and nm win most of us have no idea what that is or even where mobs spawn or how to pop them.

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Searching in game, experimentation, or read strats online from sites like BG, AH.com forums, here if you ask people, and various other sources. Everyone learns from 1 of these 3 things, no one has the information handed to them, if you expect everyone to make parties for you how do you expect them to have this information themselves? They do not simply know it, they have to learn it, and these are the 3 most common ways of learning that information.

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Secondly not anyone can just go plasma farm

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This is incorrect.

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from what i have picked up so far you need 100k bayld, fame level 2, 3 better and complete a quest, then use your 100k bayld to buy a 1 time use ki to enter a wildskeeper skirmish or some thing like that, defeat a nm that takes dozens of people and if you fail you just lost your 100k bayld but if you win you get a different ki that allows you enter a fractur to farm plasma.

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This is to be the one to take you in, that is all, unless you are the person taking the party in you need nothing. I have never once done a Wildskeeper Reive, not once, but I can make a Plasm party. All you need to do if you lack the KI is to shout 1 simple thing, which I can almost assure you, will get some tells in return. "I will make a Plasm Farm if someone will turn my rock into a KI to enter, I can not." That's it, that's all you have to do, there are tons of people wanting a party, if you shout that, chances are, someone, somewhere, bored, doing nothing, will reply back and tell you they can make it, then you buy the rock from the AH, farm it, or ask them to buy it and give them Airlixirs in return equal to the total price of the rock(if its 200k and Airlixirs are 40k give them the first 5 that drop for instance), then your done. Now you have someone in your party with the KI to enter, and you can form the party in which to do a Plasm Farm, you do not in fact need this KI personally, only 1 member of the entire alliance, any job, any person, and you can do it.

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I think i got most of that right, but if anyone know better please advise, also do you then need to buy anything to enter the fractur or can you just enter as often as you like free?.

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You need a rock from the area you want to enter, I cant remember the exact names, they are similar to the name of the rocks to pop the NMs, easy to find in misc. as they are labeled by tiers, I/II/III/IV/V.

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I spent last weekend getting fame and farming the 100k bayld and doing the quest but i'm a bit afraid of buying the 100k ki and then looseing it as i don't know what to do

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Wait till the 9th when the update hits, prices will go down, then when you see someone shouting for a WK Reive, or you can get help with a strat on how to make a party for one, do it, and you should be fine. You need a WK win for the area you plan to farm, which the best or at least most common of which is Morimar, so I would say take down the T-Rex.

@OP this is my 1st post on this thread and no, as yet I've not readl all 200+ so I appologize if I'm rehashing stuff that has already been said.

First, you seem to be taking alot of shit that is undeserved. Ok, so people take issue with your guide. People ALWAYS take issues with a guide, but here's the important part, where is their guide?! yep, I went there. You are trying to help. Now, it IS unusual for a guide to be posted in these forums, normally they are on a fansite somewhere, like wiki or even BG. The nice thing about guides on those sites, there are disclaimers and they actually post them, things like "this guide is one player's OPINION" and should not be taken as definitive, "this guide is a work in progress", etc. I'm sure YOU know that, but on these forums everyone speaks as if everyone's words are to be taken as some espoused gospel when they aren't. I never saw you holding your guide out as the Quran of Delve or anything like that, just your take on things that have worked that you have seen/done. At any rate, enough praise, on the the critique matters.

Not going to be many here. My big issue is that you might want to include more about how to build the strength to get in to the content quicker and be effective upon your arrival-and that is two different issues, since having a skirmish sword doesn't help all that much if your skill with sword is only 200 as an example. Trying to make that point on a gear/job/situation basis is at the least a daunting task (you would probably still be writing your analysis of every permutation about 3 years after they pull the plug on the last server), but you should be able to preface it all with some statement about how your guide is written with the assumption that players have a working knowledge of their job(s) and the options open to them; let's face it, if the player doesn't even have that basic knowledge he's just an invitation to wipe.

your guide is a bit whm-centric, so? you write what you know, apparently whm is your primary job, people shouldn't give you grief about that, they should be helping you with contributions about how job X can make their party/alliance contribution if you didn't cover it sufficiently instead of tearing you down for not doing it for them. so, if you did find helpful advice you may want to either link to it or quote it in your guide, maybe rewrite it to make it consistant.

undoubtedly there is alot more I might have to say on the subject since I haven't read every post in that thread either-the problem with forums is that it is very hard to maintain a chronology since posts are frequently relating to stuff pages before. That's one of the advantages of posting on Wiki or whatnot. So that's my general advice-take your product and post it somewhere that you have control over the text, and then link to it here. And if it is still a work in progress as you learn/do more then please supplement it to keep it up. Guides are helpful to quite a few players and it's a damn shame when the content gets lost in the commentary. Just don't forget to act on the good advice you are given. I wrote a guide myself once, and my big regret was the lack of useful commentary I received so I could address what people felt was important, it left me to guess at what content to address and I had to use only my own experience and the opinions I drew from those.

In closing, good luck man, trying to help is almost always better than doing nothing.

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Originally Posted by Asymptotic

Adloquium allows you to use Myrkr once every 300 seconds for 20% of your MP, at the cost of the spell being cast 1.67 times (-75mp) or Perpetunce'd (-45mp). Assume you have 1500 MP in a Myrkr set, you recover 300 MP per WS, so we gained 255MP if we used Perpetuance.

So Myrkr is worth 0.85 MP/second and idling in Owleyes/Genbu's or Terra's/Oneiros is worth 1 MP/second. And none of this matters anyway because if SCH is healing then it will have MP support via COR or BRD, or it's a Regen V mule / perpetuance haste mule, or you're killing EPs and you're not running out of MP anyway and you might as well be meleeing so you don't get bored. If SCH is not healing, then SCH is kiting a turtle in Legion or idling in Apamajas II + Stun gear and spamming Stun every 5 seconds and not running out of MP.

Since Myrkr scales lineraly it's never worth more than 0.85/second when relying on perpetuanced Adloquium with 1500 MP. You could maintain Adloquium and idle Chrysopeia Torque (drains 1 TP/tic for 1 MP/tic) for a better MP return than Myrkr and still have the freedom to change staves for increased cure potency, magic accuracy, potency, etc on your spells or -20% PDT. If you drop perpetuance because SCH has a million better things to do than use it on Perpetuance Adloquium, then you need 1875 MP before it's even with a refresh Idle. (SCH also has the option of Numen Staff + Oneiros grip for 2 MP/tic in the weapon/sub slots, but that's a bit more situational)

In other words, you're an uneducated player and you should go read up on game mechanics before you expect anyone to take you seriously.

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Honestly, this is the reason why I don't want to play FFXI anymore. Haven't been on the game from reading posts like these.

You need to realize that not everyone is going to play the same build as you and I don't care whether or not you have a brain and know how to do math better than me or know statistics and mechanics.

I did not come to here to "Give Pro Advice"

I came to show others that people like you are the reason why people are suffering in game and thank you for criticizing me because you just gave me a reason to quit and move on to do something better than hang around and deal with negative people like you.

And for those who have been nice. Wish there were more people like you. Then maybe there would be a bigger community, and maybe people would be more helpful.

So you're giving bad advice, he calls you out on it (including backing up his position with math) and he's the bad guy?

You are why we can't have nice things.

Could he have been more polite about it? maybe, but given your track record in this thread, and others it, can be pretty easy to lose one's temper talking to you.

You can play the game however you like, no one is telling you differently. When you come to a forum and start spreading misinformation and giving bad advice expect to be corrected. When you get defensive and insulting expect to be insulted in return.

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Originally Posted by Slaxx

So you're giving bad advice, he calls you out on it (including backing up his position with math) and he's the bad guy?

You are why we can't have nice things.

Could he have been more polite about it? maybe, but given your track record in this thread, and others it, can be pretty easy to lose one's temper talking to you.

You can play the game however you like, no one is telling you differently. When you come to a forum and start spreading misinformation and giving bad advice expect to be corrected. When you get defensive and insulting expect to be insulted in return.

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I did not come here to give pro advice. People asked me whats my build was. Bid difference. Asking me how I play with Hvelgamir, and I explained how. Telling others that its the very best "NEVER DID I SAY THAT"

I just said its a great item and has its uses. And it only took a couple of weeks to get one.

And the point I wanted to show everyone with that. Everyone in game is not on the same level as others. Does not have the same gear as everybody who is already at the top.

And it's because you people "assume" that everyone has the very high end items. You are treating people with disrespect by acting like we all should be with all of the best.

If anything, My guide was offering tips on how they can reach closer to some you who "ARE THE BEST"

Never did I say "I AM THE BEST"

And you all just gave proof of why many of the new, returning players are suffering from your actions. Now I see why people assume high level players are elitist.

Because rather understanding that some of us could not find people to help play Legion, NNI, Salvage and whatever other content.

Rather than helping others. You choose to criticize and call people out for not being on your level.

And you are only advising others to skip a good portion of the game expecting everyone to know the same as you and be the same as you.

And saying "You can play the game however you like" does not mean anything after you criticize someone."

You are not on my server.

How you play has no relevance to me whatsoever.

My fear is that someone from my server that I might one day have to depend on will see you advice and think it is the best way to go (and you've posted long and hard about how "acceptable" it is).

Calling me an elitist shows your clear lack of understanding of what that term means.

Am I good? Yes

Am I better than average? I like to think so.

Am I the best? Hell no, I doubt I'm even in the top 10% of DRGs on my server.

I do, however, know what my shortcomings are and continually strive to eliminate them. I expect the same from the people I play with. Not to be the best, but to continually strive to get better. If that makes me elitist I'm proud of that title.

As far a new/returning players. None are suffering from my actions. We have several in my LS. I'm not going to hold there hand through every step of the game but if they have read up on something and still don't get some part of it I'm more than willing to help them get it.

PS: You did come here (the OF) to give pro advice. You created a whole thread for it. I actually agree with quite a few things you say in there and the ones I disagree with are a matter of opinion not mathematical fact. I find some of your attitude in that thread to be condescending and dickish but that's (again) a matter of opinion.

Advising people to skip everything because you assume it's irrelevant does not teach people how to learn the equipment and practice their skills effectively. Not everyone will know how to be "PRO SKILL AS YOU" if they don't go out there and hunt for the items and practice their skill fighting bosses in places like VW, Legion, PW if you continue to advise them it's worthless.

And telling people "NOT TO EARN REM" teaches players not to be responsible, Set Goals for themselves and train how to complete and achieve difficult objectives and earn harder rewards.

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Originally Posted by Slaxx

You are not on my server.

How you play has no relevance to me whatsoever.

My fear is that someone from my server that I might one day have to depend on will see you advice and think it is the best way to go (and you've posted long and hard about how "acceptable" it is).

Calling me an elitist shows your clear lack of understanding of what that term means.

Am I good? Yes

Am I better than average? I like to think so.

Am I the best? Hell no, I doubt I'm even in the top 10% of DRGs on my server.

I do, however, know what my shortcomings are and continually strive to eliminate them. I expect the same from the people I play with. Not to be the best, but to continually strive to get better. If that makes me elitist I'm proud of that title.

As far a new/returning players. None are suffering from my actions. We have several in my LS. I'm not going to hold there hand through every step of the game but if they have read up on something and still don't get some part of it I'm more than willing to help them get it.

PS: You did come here (the OF) to give pro advice. You created a whole thread for it. I actually agree with quite a few things you say in there and the ones I disagree with are a matter of opinion not mathematical fact. I find some of your attitude in that thread to be condescending and dickish but that's (again) a matter of opinion.

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And I have to be as you call it "Dickish" because dealing with people's attitude like you. And seriously. "Learn how to read properly" never did I call you Elitist, I said "Now I see why some players assume" high level players are elitist.

Again

BIG DIFFERENCE

When you don't read the full conversation and skip parts and then jump into a conversation to make Nasty comments without properly knowing what the discussion is about "Your actions lead to misunderstanding the person who is talking."

And it makes no difference now trying to explain yourself.

Please find a post where I have advised people to skip things because they are irrelevant (besides leveling, XP parties have always been irrelevant to learning a job. Please start that bullshit argument again, that's all this thread needs to go full retard.). I am fully aware that nearly every post-75 event in the game offers situational gear (which is what nearly every piece of gear in the game is) for nearly every job. I fully support tackling lower tier content before higher content. I'm trying to push my LS into doing Legion as a prep for Delve MB runs (as a group we've never done Legion, and while the strategies are certainly different it is an opportunity to practice BRD/COR rotations and Stun rotations in a high pressure, time constricted environment).

As far as players who haven't "earned" an E/R/M weapon not being responsible - what the hell does that even mean? I (and many others) are perfectly capable of setting long term goals for myself and accomplishing them. How do you train to "earn" an E/R/M? Does it mean less if you earn gil in other ways and buy what you need or does it only count if you earn every piece of currency (or alexandrite, or w/e you empy upgrade items are) yourself? Do you then have to get every ADL drop from only ADLs you fight (or PW drops, or w/e your empy item is)?

Condescending and dickish.

PS: Feel free to continue to edit your posts and add new points as you do. I've pointed out before it makes you look like an amateur but you continue to do it. Last time your excuse was you were spinning and had to change records, what is it this time?

ProTip: If you don't have the time to post it can wait until you finish whatever it is your doing so you can express everything you want to express at once. Otherwise either make another post, or just stop posting.

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Originally Posted by Slaxx

Please find a post where I have advised people to skip things because they are irrelevant (besides leveling, XP parties have always been irrelevant to learning a job. Please start that bullshit argument again, that's all this thread needs to go full retard.). I am fully aware that nearly every post-75 event in the game offers situational gear (which is what nearly every piece of gear in the game is) for nearly every job. I fully support tackling lower tier content before higher content. I'm trying to push my LS into doing Legion as a prep for Delve MB runs (as a group we've never done Legion, and while the strategies are certainly different it is an opportunity to practice BRD/COR rotations and Stun rotations in a high pressure, time constricted environment).

As far as players who haven't "earned" an E/R/M weapon not being responsible - what the hell does that even mean? I (and many others) are perfectly capable of setting long term goals for myself and accomplishing them. How do you train to "earn" an E/R/M? Does it mean less if you earn gil in other ways and buy what you need or does it only count if you earn every piece of currency (or alexandrite, or w/e you empy upgrade items are) yourself? Do you then have to get every ADL drop from only ADLs you fight (or PW drops, or w/e your empy item is)?

Condescending and dickish.

PS: Feel free to continue to edit your posts and add new points as you do. I've pointed out before it makes you look like an amateur but you continue to do it. Last time your excuse was you were spinning and had to change records, what is it this time?

ProTip: If you don't have the time to post it can wait until you finish whatever it is your doing so you can express everything you want to express at once. Otherwise either make another post, or just stop posting.

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Hypocritical Don't you think? You are calling me "Dickish" and continue to disrespect me. Amateur? Well I never called you names, judged you, treated you the way you've been treating me. And yes I have to edit my posts because I'm not on computer right now.

Drop your ego.

You were proven wrong on a topic and while you have the right spirit regarding helping others, you arent entitled to your own facts. If you feel so strongly about something either use math or provide data to support your arguments. Doing either isnt elitist, it simply removes opinion and replaces it with a universally understood medium of communication.

The reason people consider the OF to be complete garbage that circles the toilet bowl is because opinion is presented as fact and criticism is taken as personal attack. I personally dont care about whatpeople do on their free XI time but when someone posts erroneus facts you should be peer reviewed to refine what is churned out,

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Originally Posted by Sparthos

Drop your ego.

You were proven wrong on a topic and while you have the right spirit regarding helping others, you arent entitled to your own facts. If you feel so strongly about something either use math or provide data to support your arguments. Doing either isnt elitist, it simply removes opinion and replaces it with a universally understood medium of communication.

The reason people consider the OF to be complete garbage that circles the toilet bowl is because opinion is presented as fact and criticism is taken as personal attack. I personally dont care about whatpeople do on their free XI time but when someone posts erroneus facts you should be peer reviewed to refine what is churned out,

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I've been trying to help others. What have you been doing? And had you even read my posts you'd see that. Skipping parts and making assumptions without knowing the reasons and then feeling the need of pointing me out on error as if you are far more superior only shows that no one can have an opinion.

Drop your attitude

And I have no other need to continue wasting my time responding to negative posts. If you want to continue being self absorbed in your superiorness you are showing everyone exactly the reason why I brought up this topic. Enjoy your FFXI because I no longer will be here. Way too many people with bad attitudes and definitely not enough people helping others.

I had a fairly long post praising Sparthos for addressing you with the respect you don't deserve but I accidentally refreshed the page and lost it.

Instead I will just say enjoy whatever you do in the future, you won't be missed.

And by the way. Here is a fact for you negative people out there. Had "SE NOT ANNOUNCE UPGRADES FOR REM."

Then you could criticize me about how worthless they are.

But telling others "IT'S WORTHLESS DON'T EVEN BOTHER WASTING YOUR TIME"

I can't wait to see the reactions of others if the upgrades come out to be so awesome that all those people you told NOT to work on one will be left dissapointed because they did not have it ready by the time the update happens.

And for those of you doubting that SE will update them.

Had not a huge portion of the server complain and threaten to rage quit to the point devs had to step in and respond. Then I could follow you on your doubts.

But go ahead and encourage others how worthless it is to set goals for themselves.

Campers, it's a little late for the warning, but you're going to need your rubber booties. It's piling up in here.

The last thing I want to do is contribute to this thread anymore... I mean come on. This guy is just talking to hear his own voice. Replying to every single post, multi-posting etc. Just let it go.

There is a clear break down in fundamental understanding going on in here and 22 pages is 21 too many.

I don't know about you, but I cannot in good faith suggest friend spend millions of gil on something that may see a slight boost, or no boost at all. That's just it: we don't know. We can't predict Matsui's pattern of content, except that he has a lot of fixing to do. They probably don't even know where to begin.

I see both sides of the argument, and basically what it all boils down to is: how people choose to spend their time.

The "elitist" camp chooses to use it efficiently, and for them, the progression at this pace is their idea of fun. there are some players in that camp that don't have all the time in the world to play, so 3 hours or so with a strategy that has been proven to work is the most ideal for them.

then you have your camp, which likes to do things outside the box, try new things. For you, that is how to choose to spend your time.

There is no right or wrong way to play, and yelling at the others' camp for not spending their time like you is a bit unfair. You can't really generalize these people into all being elitist pricks who are only out for themselves. Progression is their fun, trial-and-error is yours. Neither are wrong, just different.

Ultimately, this is when two of the worst things in XI collide: poor content design, and the huge time sink this game has always been.

SE has not in fact announced upgrades to R/E/M. They have announced that are under consideration and development but are certainly not part of any current update map. Please stick with the "facts", SMNs were promised 2 new avatars, new "2-hour" abilities have been in development for a year (? longer?). Until it has been announced that they are being upgraded in a certain update (with a firm date) the R/E/M upgrade is not a "fact".

Please note, I am not saying that there will not be R/E/M upgrades. I am saying that they are not a "fact".

And even once those upgrades are announced (if they are) who are you to say they will be better than Delve weapons? The one example they have showed us was clearly said to be an example, not to be taken as a finished product. If they are better than Delve weapons will they be better than whatever comes after Delve weapons? I find it hard to believe that items and gear introduced in the first month of this expansion will be the best it has to offer (that's an opinion in case you didn't notice, I'm not spewing "facts").

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Originally Posted by Vil

I don't know about you, but I cannot in good faith suggest friend spend millions of gil on something that may see a slight boost, or no boost at all. That's just it: we don't know. We can't predict Matsui's pattern of content, except that he has a lot of fixing to do. They probably don't even know where to begin.

I see both sides of the argument, and basically what it all boils down to is: how people choose to spend their time.

The "elitist" camp chooses to use it efficiently, and for them, the progression at this pace is their idea of fun. there are some players in that camp that don't have all the time in the world to play, so 3 hours or so with a strategy that has been proven to work is the most ideal for them.

then you have your camp, which likes to do things outside the box, try new things. For you, that is how to choose to spend your time.

There is no right or wrong way to play, and yelling at the others' camp for not spending their time like you is a bit unfair. You can't really generalize these people into all being elitist pricks who are only out for themselves. Progression is their fun, trial-and-error is yours. Neither are wrong, just different.

Ultimately, this is when two of the worst things in XI collide: poor content design, and the huge time sink this game has always been.

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See I can show respect to you because instead of sending me a personal attack criticizing me. You pointed out your opinion respectfully.

The bad thing about reading and not actually talking in person is that words on screen could mean a million things and people can take it the wrong way. Because everyone can look at words and take the meaning differently.

My intention was to help people. Encourage others to enjoy the game. One detail I should have posted on the first page was that my topic was only an opinion and nothing is fact.

Even posting about items that I believe are not worthless was just my opinion.
I know not everyone will agree with me, however we all have different point of views.

It does not matter anymore to me as I tried my best to be helpful but instead rather than see the bright side of my reasons, people took it for the wrong and it's best for me to move on and do something else.

Again those of you who have been nice, understanding, and helpful. It's you who keep the community together. And people have a great time doing things when you help others. Not only did I have a great experience and awesome memories. I am thankful to those who have been kind and supportive, understanding and patient. Will miss you and take care.

So wait, you say I'm spreading misinformation, I back up my claim mathematically, and ... I'm the bad guy for proving you wrong?

Me proving you wrong drove you to quit? Cool.

Haven't you noticed that's how the OF works?

If you disagree with me you're attacking me.

If you prove I'm wrong using math you're an elitist.

If you point out that my opinion is not, in fact, fact then you're advocating skipping everything pre-Delve.

There's a disconnect somewhere but I'm not sure where it is.

Hello everyone,

I'd like to remind everyone to please refrain from making inflammatory comments towards others and off topic discussions. Such language and actions is considered a violation of the forum guidelines, and can result in the termination of your account.

As the thread has become off topic with such posts, the thread will now be closed.

-SQUARE ENIX MODERATOR