Adjustments to Embrava and Perfect Defense

I certain think that it would only be fair to give it an equal amount of Snapshot too.

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In other words, currently we have been giving consideration towards Perfect Defense and Embrava when making adjustments to content and monster strength. Likewise we have had to scale back new equipment stats and abilities for other jobs for the same reason.

In the event that we were to continue at this pace, content and monsters would be created where the effects of Perfect Defense and Embrava would be ineffective, so in order to redraw the standard values for content and equipment we will be making these adjustments.

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Camate while I understand your just translating what the Dev's posted in the JP forums, and what I read last night.

Can you possibly communicate to the developers that it's not the monsters HP that is the issue. It's their offensive power, their special attacks have very large area's of effect and do so much damage that it kill's anyone who doesn't have perfect defense on. What the community is really asking for is a reduction to the damage monsters do to the players doing those big fights. If the developers could reduce the monsters offensive power then the players would love you guys for a very long time. The PD / Embrava nerf would be much better received at that point.

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Originally Posted by Lollerblades

If that's the reason then Kaustra will need some form of adjustment to it , so that scholar actually will have a use for Tabula Rasa.

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Everyone keeps saying stuff like this but I really don't feel it's true at all. Tabula Rasa is a fantastic 2 hour even without Embrava or Kaustra, and definitely better than what some other jobs have. Originally it lasted 30 seconds and it's only effect was unlimited strategems and was useless like this because 30 seconds wasn't enough time to do anything with it. Now it's 3 minutes long, unlimited strategems, 0 recast on Light/Dark arts, and boosts Regen/Helix spells even more. Having unlimited strategems for 3 minutes is the best part though... You can Parsimony/Alacrity/Ebullience/Immanece your nukes as much as you want, and Perpetuance your buffs all you want, Rapture/Penury/Accession your cures all you want. If you really play SCH seriously, you should know how fast you can burn through strategems and just how amazingly useful having unlimited strategems for 3 minutes truly is.

Honestly, I think more 2 hour type abilities should have their duration increased too. DRK's (Blood Weapon) is a good example. But that's an entirely different topic.

In regards to Tabula Rasa and Embrava itself... Like I said earlier, I still feel that if Embrava is going to be nerfed, it should be nerfed to the point where we can just use it whenever we want like a regular spell. If I look at it from a design point of view, if a spell is meant to be limited to once every 2 hours (Or soon to be 1 hour) then it's supposed to be overpowered. If it's not overpowered, then why is it limited to being used once every 2 (Or 1) hours? Everything in between is what the players consider "useless" as it doesn't reflect the spell's limited use.

As a side note, Embrava/Kaustra could be removed from Tabula Rasa dependency, but still be boosted to stronger levels while under Tabula Rasa. For example 51 HP (Or lower)/10% Haste/4 Refresh outside Tabula Rasa at 500 skill, while having 72 HP/25% Haste/6 Refresh with Tabula Rasa with 500 skill as the devs propose. We could get both. Anything is possible here, just as long as the devs are willing to work with us.

In regards to specific feedback for Legion/Nyzul Isle/Einherjar. I'll be honest. I don't really do these events, so my input is very limited. But I can tell you one thing; From my limited experiences with these events, I can tell you I have absolutely no interest in doing them. They're boring and incredibly unfun due to the way the monsters are designed (Mostly Legion though). I mean, we generally only have 200-300 more HP when compared to Lv75 cap yet stuff is hitting us 6-7 times harder in comparison. What's up with that? If you use math things should only be hitting about 15% harder, give or take a few.

So basically:

1) If you're gonna nerf Embrava, nerf it right and adjust all properties of the spell including it's limited use (Ties to the 2 hour). Kaustra as well, of course. No matter what though, 3 minute duration is a must for Embrava, 2 hour or not.

2) Adjust content properly. It sounds like you'll look at one element at a time, so for now you're just doing HP, but you're also so darn vague about it that honestly I dunno if that's really the case. As such, I think everyone should continue to complain about these events as hard as they have been, until things are fixed. For all we know, if we stop now, SE will think the HP drop was sufficient and never look at the content again.

I think you guys are just adding more work for yourselves (The devs) by looking at things one at a time. I know in computer programming that you try to plan ahead as much as you can because changing code later can be very problematic. I don't think this is any different. You know what the players generally want so just get 'er done and move on :P

I just remembered something.
Embrava is pretty weak in level cap fights. Why are you making it a complete waste of 10% mp (assumed strategems) for those fights? I used it quite a lot to duo some ENM's w/ a friend who just likes to go this one particular job and it sucks even with him having embrava on. which only lasts for a 3rd of the fight anyway since perpetuance is lv76 (past all lvl caps).

It's only like 10% haste in those, idunno 30-40 regen? and regain of like 2. In no way is it broken in level cap fights. if any time needs to be killed from it, put it in the /blockaid petpetuance list. and it should remain the same potency it has always been for level cap fights.

Other point:

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For both existing content and content to come in the future, I believe that conditions where special monsters are created for the sole purpose of counteracting Perfect Defense and Embrava is not desirable at all. The main idea behind the adjustments to Perfect Defense and Embrava is to correct the situation so it will not come to this.

As a result we would like to make it so summoner and scholar can widen their range of play and usefulness via other elements. We understand that these adjustments might be somewhat of an inconvenience, but we appreciate your understanding.

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This means they don't like making content that makes it necessary to use PD/embrava, right? You're going about making that dream a reality.
First, change the content that you have already created to be do-able without PD/embrava, and let the community know that you're changing the content with the assumption that those spells will be heavily nerf'd. After you have changed the content around the new design and the player base understands that is why the content has been changed, you may nerf PD/embrava without issue.

Finally, why is it you say you made content to make PD/embrava useless when if a group tries to do the event without they have 0% chance of winning?

I just wanted to thank SE for killing Voidwatch with the crour update. Now they tell us they are going to nerf Embrava and PD. Really about tired of the nerfs. The reps always complain that we don't provide constructive criticism and suggest other alternatives. Well, heres a suggestion. Please think about the long term when you implement a nerf. I was surprised to find out how many people do VW for the crour alone. Unfortunately I didn't get to finish all the armor that I wanted to and I can't can hold more than 10 people together for VW since no one wants to do it if they have the armor, and now you tell me that it will now be harder for me to get any Nyzul gear. I think another nerf will be coming this month, my subscription status.

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Originally Posted by Miiyo

It's not really that we're ignored, they don't want any ideas from the player base. They just want to know do you like it or not. If enough people are against it, we MIGHT think about a sideways way to adjust it. That's what the forum is really for. They may as well keep it limited to a no comments forum and put a like or dislike button next to the updates. FFXI would be much different if they listened to the actual ideas from the community. Granted, most posts on here aren't worth much anyways so I wouldn't want to have the job of sifting through the crap to find a needle.

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They're ignorant of what we want over what they think we need I'll give you that

DOWN WITH THE BLOODY BIG HEAD!!!!!!

Whle youre at it, get rid of the crap in NNI where you can port back to floor 1 when you're in the 90s, that's bullcrap that can even happen in that event.

*spoiler*

New Jobadjustments

~All jobs~
new WS @600 skill

~WHM~
Cure become regeneff. with same Tier (cureI = CureI+SS+Regen1) @600 Healingskill

~BLU~
New Spells @600 Bluskill

~NIN~
+1 Utsesemi shadow @600 NINskill

>.<

/slowclap

If it ain't broke, don't fix it! You sir! Just broke it! Good luck trying to get to Fl100 NNL with out embrava the way it was. YOu really think people are going to find alternatives for that system now? No!

im glad about these nerfs actually. Its always annoyed me how some strats develop. Ppl find that one exploit, and abuse it to hell. And it leave ppl unable (or unwilling) to try any other methods. Its rather annoying.

Honestly if we end up getting regain on the new gear I'll call this nerf a win.

I'm going to ask the devs if they think that :

F100 nyzul is winnable without the current embrava and if so, at what % chance ?
Arch dynamis lord is killable without Perfect defense (present or future) and if so at what winnaning rate and with what realistic setup ?
Legion is killable at which rate without PD or embrava ?
Odin ?

Serious question, because we, the player base, are thinking you are checking what we do without doing it yourself in the first place. The miserable end of Nyzul II is a great example.

I also would like to point out that anything that requires more than 2 people is useless on the TEST server. You guys might as well read the comment here instead. Last thing you did were nyzul, and legion : did you really think we could evaluate or test this crap when getting past F20 solo is unlikely or killing just one legion mob is impossible ? All I can say is all this blurb is useless, just put the ajustement next or don't put it.

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Originally Posted by Godofgods

im glad about these nerfs actually. Its always annoyed me how some strats develop. Ppl find that one exploit, and abuse it to hell. And it leave ppl unable (or unwilling) to try any other methods. Its rather annoying.

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When has it ever not been that way, and what makes you think it's going to be any different now? People will always take the path of least resistance. There will always be a single best, most efficient strategy for victory and that will invariably become the only method that's used. You really think SE will design events and mobs where there's a multitude of paths to success? You think they're going to create events where DOT and kite, tank n' spank, zerg, and other strategies are all valid options against the same opponents? How would that even work exactly?

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Originally Posted by Godofgods

im glad about these nerfs actually. Its always annoyed me how some strats develop. Ppl find that one exploit, and abuse it to hell. And it leave ppl unable (or unwilling) to try any other methods. Its rather annoying.

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Nothing is stopping you from trying other methods. The problem is those methods don't work. It's not a playerbase problem, it's a SE problem. They design everything to be a zerg along with giving us max range 1000+ damage AoE nms with crazy debuffs. Now they have nerfed our abilities, but not the monsters (-10% hp is not enough.)

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Originally Posted by Godofgods

im glad about these nerfs actually. Its always annoyed me how some strats develop. Ppl find that one exploit, and abuse it to hell. And it leave ppl unable (or unwilling) to try any other methods. Its rather annoying.

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It's not really an exploit when some events are unwinnable without them. Sure they needed dumbing down a bit, but to make embrava useless was the wrong thing to do.

Maybe there was an over-reliance on PD. On Embrava. But as Legion currently stands, isn't there an over-reliance on Stun? The concept is still the same. It's not about surviving or mitigating damage or curing yourself quickly. It's about making sure you don't get hit by it at all. Yes, you can still survive some moves in your -DT sets, but the debuffs oh those debuffs. If it's not all stat down it's weakness. Or death prophet! Make a stun resisty mob that insta-kills! In an event where you have to kill waves of mobs in 30 minutes.

Nerf PD and Embrava fine, but please come with a more appropriate nerf to the content. The TP moves are not all bad, but many are too devastating to handle reasonably.

Now that I think about it, I feel there's more to it with why replacing Regain to Refresh effect from Embrava instead of just lowering it's potency of Regain is irrelevant. even though they stack with Refresh/Refresh II so it's great and more MP recovered for other mages. However this would only end up as a spell that's only for mages, and a useless novelty/cosmetic spell for DDs. (whatever you want to call it). I would rather have the spell Refresh from /RDM than having that and the refresh effect from embrava. Not to mention, that the spell refresh lasts 1 minute longer than the newly adjusted duration of Embrava. And to add that a RDM main in the party has refresh 2 for a reason, plus there's bards there for ballad, that's plenty refresh. Also, there's even alot of very high-level gear that has refresh, but I don't see any that has more than +1 tick Refresh, and not even savant's gown +2 in the slightest has the same refresh effect like all the other empyrean bodies.

Let's look at the differences between Pre-Nerf Embrava and Post-Nerf Embrava. Pre-Nerf, Embrava gave TP to every job that could perform Weapon skills, especially mages and Rangers (Which I will come back to).
Post-Nerf, with Embrava being restricted to only a Mage-Only support spell, the team therefore has eliminated the capabilities of allowing even mages to weapon skill (especially for procing weapon skills like Hexa Strike). This made a huge negative impact to DDs, But to Rangers they got hit even more, because haste doesn't affect their ranged attacks, refresh has absolutely no effect for them. So in DD's case, Embrava is nothing more than just another Regen spell, nothing more.

So basically they refuse to listen to our feedback. Why even bother asking us in the first place. If you check the japan forum and use google translate you will see that they too are not thrilled with this update, but seems like nothing is going to be done to the overwhelming negative response. You know what to do, vote with your actions, not with your words.

They really just don't seem to be understanding exactly what is wrong and why an HP reduction on the NMs is not sufficient balance.

The fact that the NMs in question have such devastating attacks that wipe you from existence is the problem. If you reduce the HP of the enemy, that does not solve this problem.

I'm sure just about everyone would rather the NM's keep their current HP and instead have adjustments made to the soul obliterating TP moves that caused PD and Embrava to even become as necessary as they have.

By all means, PD and Embrava need to be nerfed, but if this is how you insist on doing it, then you need to properly adjust the battles as well.

And, in all seriousness, does the dev team even play/test this stuff or are they arbitrary adjustments based on what they may have seen on Youtube?

The problem is so many fold it's dumb

1. Tanks can't tank cause of the failed enmity system.
2. DDs can't hold back for tanks cause SE uses timer on all content.
3. Meaning the ONLY way we can kill mobs is avoiding dmg all together.

Which has lead to Stun or Die gameplay SE had created.

SE fixed this with Perfect Defense and Fanatics drinks.

The messed up thing is that SE can't fix it anymore without a huge overhaul.

Step one - Fix hate system
Step two - Adjust AoE DMG so that all but main target take alot less DMG
Step three - Adjust all content so that you don't have to zerg everything cause of a timer.
Step four - Adjust Aegis and Ochain since PLD is near invincible now and the ones with out may as well quit PLD or work on Aegis and Ochain

Then after these things then they should consider nerfing or removing Embrava/Perfect Denfense.

It's pretty amazing that all this (in my opinion) comes from the fed up hate system meaning the only way we could complete there content is by being near invincible but ofc cause PD was in the game that was ok.

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Originally Posted by Rezeak

Step four - Adjust Aegis and Ochain since PLD is near invincible now and the ones with out may as well quit PLD or work on Aegis and Ochain.

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They're not broken at all.
Make an Ochain.

Reducing a Bosses HP, that helps alot, oh wait the boss can still one shot an alliance with ease. Reducing Embrava and PD duration isnt the answer especially since LEGION bosses are Super god like creatures. Just Squares useless power move. Then they wonder why people find ways to cheat the system because some things are just ridiculous to fight.

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Originally Posted by Plasticleg

They're not broken at all.
Make an Ochain.

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If they ever fix the hate system no mob in the game will be able to use magic as a main source of dmg since 99 aegis allows for -100% magic dmg taken.

As for Ochain isn't as bad but it still makes a pld immune to all normal hits and only the crazy of physical tp moves can get through.

Which is fine atm cause of mobs duel wielding nuclear silos lol.

Either way, I guess you missed the point if the hate system was fixed along with the mobs ability to deal ridiculous dmg Ochain and Aegis would definitly need to be scaled back so that there would be some challenge to the game and so that all other tanks NINs WARs none Relic/emp PLDs can acully be useful.

Honestly SE messed up the game alot w/ all the stats it dished out post abyssea making us superpowered and the only way they can balance it atm is by making mob spam insta-death move so that the challenge is to avoid these moves usually by stun or perfect defense.

Basically, if we/you want the hate system fixed so that PLD can rejoin the game then Aegis and Ochain would have to be nerfed or everything would be a joke.

It's honestly that or mobs keep spamming insta-kill moves

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Originally Posted by Rezeak

If they ever fix the hate system no mob in the game will be able to use magic as a main source of dmg since 99 aegis allows for -100% magic dmg taken.

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Unfortunately not true:

http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Magic_Damage_Taken

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There is an overall cap of -87.5% damage taken, including sources that bypass the other caps.

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Because you can hit the 87.5% cap with a level 90, 95, or 99 Aegis, going from 95 to 99 just lets you put a little more MDB on instead of -% MDT. Most people view it as a waste of gil.

Camate, could you please let the developers know, if they must stand their ground and refuse our suggestion on how to adjust Embrava and Perfect Defense, as well as adjusting NMs tp moves that is the REAL PROBLEM in the first place.

Then please consider to revamp RDMs with spells that is actually works to reduce enemy TPs, giving it plague, and making their enfeebling NOT resisted and working 100% to stop that said TP move and reducing monster critical hit rates.

As well as BUFFs Blue Mage so that their enfeeble spells works on NMs and stack with RDMs. This way instead of ZERG everything in 2 minutes or be wiped apart, endgame events should be a battle dance of how well can you control the NMs behaviour and capabilities, reducing their effectiveness to wipe your alliance, and at the same time chipping away their HPs while having several jobs set up to buffs the party.

Since you are reducing SMN's ability and forcing the 600 smn magic skills, how about making Avatar's favor more useful, and scaling up the Avatar abilities, attack, hp, and BP to 99.

BTW, try checking those forum on jobs that are quite perfect and pretty much extremely superior in what they are doing. You won't see many active serious posting other than silly crap like, Whm should have Candy Spikes. Nothing going on in Samurai forum either LOL.

...I like candy. >.>

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Originally Posted by Luvbunny

BTW, try checking those forum on jobs that are quite perfect and pretty much extremely superior in what they are doing. You won't see many active serious posting other than silly crap like, Whm should have Candy Spikes. Nothing going on in Samurai forum either LOL.

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Whm should have Banish 4 and 5, and it should do 1500-2000 damage to undeads!

And Holy/Holy2 should be as strong as AM on undeads. :(.

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Originally Posted by Rezeak

Step four - Adjust Aegis and Ochain since PLD is near invincible now and the ones with out may as well quit PLD or work on Aegis or Ochain.

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If you're PLD and not going for either (or both, depending on if necessary for your shell) Aegis or Ochain, you shouldn't be playing PLD.

Contrary to popular belief, PLD is not a job you can half-ass. I'm not even done with my Ochain yet, and I can see the importance of having it.

Second, neither shield makes you immortal. Many people thought that about their Ochain PLDs because they were godlike in abysssea. Most of these people got a rude awakening when they realized they could still be killed in Voidwatch.

So, unless you have both shields, you still have a significant chance of dying.

Also, magic damage taken caps at 80 something percent.

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Originally Posted by Alerith

If you're PLD and not going for either (or both, depending on if necessary for your shell) Aegis or Ochain, you shouldn't be playing PLD.

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While essentially true, the fact that one needs what are supposed to be luxury items just to play the job with anything resembling functionality is a telling sign that something is very wrong in Pallytown.

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Contrary to popular belief, PLD is not a job you can half-ass. I'm not even done with my Ochain yet, and I can see the importance of having it.

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I suppose not having a pair of legendary-class shields that, by design, not everyone is intended to have could be considered half-assing, but I would say the real half-assers are SE for creating a job that needs such things just to function. I dunno, maybe people like that it's that way. It's not something I consider good, but maybe I'm the exception.

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Originally Posted by Camiie

While essentially true, the fact that one needs what are supposed to be luxury items just to play the job with anything resembling functionality is a telling sign that something is very wrong in Pallytown.



I suppose not having a pair of legendary-class shields that, by design, not everyone is intended to have could be considered half-assing, but I would say the real half-assers are SE for creating a job that needs such things just to function. I dunno, maybe people like that it's that way. It's not something I consider good, but maybe I'm the exception.

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Why would a tank, or support crew for that matter, have a lower expectation of gear then a melee?

DD's are not pretty much expected to have a legendary weapon (Relic / Emp) to participate in any high end content. And while this would be messed up, getting a Emp to 85~90 is easy just like getting a Relic to 95 is easy. Both take time, but they are definitely attainable by everyone in the game.

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Originally Posted by dpdhuntress

Reducing a Bosses HP, that helps alot, oh wait the boss can still one shot an alliance with ease. Reducing Embrava and PD duration isnt the answer especially since LEGION bosses are Super god like creatures. Just Squares useless power move. Then they wonder why people find ways to cheat the system because some things are just ridiculous to fight.

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Here's a serious question, since i never had any experience with content like ADL or Legion, but um... would all those TP moves of those NMs still oneshot people if they had both earthen Armor and Sentinel's scherzo on them? Because that should give around ~80% damage reduction to any 1.5k and above TP move (assuming 2k hp for a melee as an example) and/or Spell and I'm not sure, but this should be curable by a good Healer.

Since I never had any experience I'm not sure if those NMs just bypass this defensive buff with like 500+ melee hits so please bear with me, if that is the case.
I'm really curious about this, because I always see people talk about Perfect defense and Embrava but never hear about the abilities we always have at our disposal instead of every 2 hours (soon to be every 1 hour).

And sorry if my english isn't the best. It's not my native language.

I think it's more because some of these heavy AoEs also come with additional effect: death on them, or various other status effects. Some of their ranges are so incredibly huge that they catch healers and stuff too, and they are a lot more squishy.

Well I certainly agree on ridiculous ranges of AoEs which destroys any purpose of intelligent positioning for mages especially if those give a potent paralyze effect or something to that effect which destroys any chance of an efficient healing. Add effect death shouldn't be on AoE moves either, except for special TP moves like odins Zantetsuken which can be countered in a special way.

But if this is really the case the issue isn't really the damage of the moves themselves but rather their additional characteristics such as range, add effects and so on. So capping AoE ranges @ around 18-20yalm max should be a major help on getting those fights doable without PD/Embrava, right?

The Developers need to re-ask the question of what a 2hr JAs was for. If I recall correctly it was to give players an ability that could help turn around a battle in favor of the player was their explanation. Players generally do not use 2hr abilities if they can get by without them. You need to reassess why players are so heavily dependent on them. The arrows point to the content of the events not the abilities being used in them. Taking away the abilities or adjusting them do not break the dependency of the abilities or want ones like them. If you do what was stated, you are only treating the symptom not curing the disease in a similar way to when you adjusted Modus Veritas. Player mentality towards 2hr abilities is generally was (and for the most part still is) save them for a moment I may really need it really need it. For years this has been major fights, BC's, HNMs, that rare moment that it could save your EXP party, ECT. . Legion and NNI is no different in that aspect, except without the abilities in question probability of success is less very low.

Though you stated you do not want to go this route, instead of just adjusting the 2hrs why not put up counter measures for using the strategy that requires them in a similar way that Soul Eater and Elemental magic was dealt with. 1st undo the resistance to Soul Eater on NMs. 2nd make it that once NMs (lv 95 and higher) receive a certain amount of dmg with in a set time they start to resist, hit players with an non-erasable attack down, or resist or absorb dmg type of what caused the most dmg within that time frame (excluding VW and NNI).

For Legion, players don't live long enough to try to develop strategies and tactics for some of the monsters in there. The range of monsters spells and abilities vs. players have been talked about for years. Enmity has been an issue for while. How can we direct harmful abilities when the cap can be so reached easily by multiply players? When a NM has several crippling abilities, high stun resistance, or/and hits hard, you are going to look down at players for using JAs that allows them to engage them safely? 10 years and I’m still shock bar spells for light and dark never been added. Enmity is still set at level 75 gameplay, and we are still waiting for it to be restructured. There have been a few items that were mention that have yet to be seen and barely spoken about. There was talk about having the ability to undo charm that was never employed, not saying that charm is that big of a problem. 10% HP cut isn't going to level the playing field in Legion for not having regain from Embrava. What's wrong with Regain that players cannot have it, but the monsters in Legion can have it? Is this a regain a COR vs. SCH issue? Refresh... I ask you SE, what is a max net gain of 690mp refresh (with Af+3 and Perpetuance) good for in place of regain. The monsters in Legion are too dangerous, and that's why stun locking and zerging using are heavily used. If you think you would be really changing how players do things in Legion by adjusting Embrava the way you intent. DRK's new 2hr may take center stage along with brd if you change PD and Embrava and groups may try using more SMNs. Players will be doing the same thing they are now with different jobs and JAs. I think stopping the ability to lock Tabula Rasa and effects like it by clicking on [insert target here] would prove more effective to what SE wants to really achieve by their proposed changes to Embrava. Food for thought SE, a BRD and COR can replace Embrava and groups will still use SMNs. You will not be doing anything but change some of jobs people with bring, while they STILL USE the same tactic.

As for NNI, this has been talked about to death about how brutal this event can be. With adjustments to Embrava, first I think the reward paradigm for getting HQ gear should change floor 100= 1win, floor 80= 5wins, Floor 60= 20wins floor 40= 50wins. In addition to that, after defeating a boss should change the range of jumping to ???. Instead of 3-11 could go from 6-12 if you defeat a boss for at least one jump. Have bosses drop a key (like "??? Nyzul Key") to trade to the rune to jump higher or trade to the NPC for a chance at other effects like erasing pathos, and able to see the floor layout for a short time like 5min (item becomes ex/rare when appraised).

Perfect Defense should be more skill dependant, though I think it should be in a different way. The time could be the same and remain based on MP%, or lower the max from 90sec to 75, while the dmg reduction and the resist levels should be based on summoning magic skill. Overall I think how Alex and Odin should be changed. Let SMN be able to use them without astral flow. When they are summoned let them use something random healing/enhancing/enfeebling/damaging effect that their Prime counterparts use and then despawn at the cost of 10-12% mp. Summoning them under AF they will do their current abilities.

If changes to Embrava are needs after adjusting the content, refresh would be ok if you just add it but not replacing regain. Embrava's duration should be reflected by enhancing magic skill up to 3-4min (7min 30sec-10min with AF3+2) for a cap for the base (though I wouldn't mind letting the cap being the base it is now) and let the effects given by the spell degrade slowly. Have a base value set for the effects of Regen, Regain, Refresh and Haste set at something reasonable so the effect is still has worth when it degrades to its lowest value. Rescale the increase of the effect bonuses in relation to enhancing magic skill. Let us say @500 enhancing magic skill haste value is 36% and degrades to 14%. Depending on the rate of decay for the effects and their value, this could be a better alternative to what SE wants to do. Another option is to just configure the tic value and timing. 350HP/10TP(14MP if you want to add it) every 10sec with 25% haste @500 skill and lower the duration, I think 7mins and 30sec with AF3+2 would be within reason. If those 2 suggestions are too complex for them to code then let rapture expand accession to other parties in the alliance and have casting Embrava kills the 2hr effect and leave Embrava effects as is.

I do understand SE has a vision of how they like this game to be. The development's team image will not be the same as ours, even if they do play this game and have a passion in making it the best it can be. Do you truly think your choice of action is the best one, let alone a correct one? Being part of a team myself I can understand that artist vision as a whole of what you want people to see and experience. I think we all here can agree that there are some things that can be done better. I don't mean in just game play, but in consumer relations, communications, as well as handling small tasks and fixes among other things. People are going to judge you by what you said, what you promise, what you do, why you do, and how fast and how well it is done. With the 2hrs being reduced to a 1hr timer, to reflect the being able to access the spell more frequently, the duration of Embrava should be adjusted not the effects they give. People don't want this to be like another Miser's Roll or worst Modus Veritas where the adjustment renders what's being changed nearly useless, especially in the case of Embrava. Granted Embrava and PD can use some fine tuning, but it's not the spell and ability that is broken. It is your event content that needs the heavy adjustments. SE I can only hope you take this to heart.

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Originally Posted by Herby

Here's a serious question, since i never had any experience with content like ADL or Legion, but um... would all those TP moves of those NMs still oneshot people if they had both earthen Armor and Sentinel's scherzo on them? Because that should give around ~80% damage reduction to any 1.5k and above TP move (assuming 2k hp for a melee as an example) and/or Spell and I'm not sure, but this should be curable by a good Healer.

Since I never had any experience I'm not sure if those NMs just bypass this defensive buff with like 500+ melee hits so please bear with me, if that is the case.

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ADL's attacks individually aren't strong enough to trigger "severe damage mitigation" effects like Earthen Armor, etc. The problem is that after a certain point ADL splits into multiple ADLs who are all using their abilities at once. And "severe damage mitigation" only considers the damage done for one attack at a time. Likewise, Legion has three powerful monsters spawn at the same time. Legion's Paramount Botulus and the final form of Pandemonium Warden all by themselves can do Astral Flow with 6-8 avatars simultaneously.

Also, a number of high end mobs do instant death effects. ADL's Tera Slash sometimes inflicts death. Legion's Mired Mantis is infamous for opening with Death Prophet as soon as it is attacked, and it can use it at any time.

Besides instant death, there are also all sorts of nasty status effects that have no prevention other than Perfect Defense and no removal other than death or waiting for them to time out: Encumbrance, Weakness, Terror, Mute, etc.

To be entirely honest, AoE instant deaths shouldn't exist in a game where death means you can't participate in the fight for 5 minutes. It's just dumb. It could just as well have been an "instant disconnect" status effect.

If there is no way to counter instant death before it happens outside of one single ability that can only be used for (soon to be) 57 seconds every hour, there is simply something wrong with the game design.

If you're going to keep instant death (and even worse, AoE instant death) in the game, give us ways to efficiently counter it. Bardarkra, Bardeathra, maybe add methods of avoiding it that requires multiple jobs to reliably resist it. If a bard's dark carols + bardarkra + bardeath was enough to increase death resist rates to over 90%, then maybe it would be all right to keep AoE death moves.

Being able to negate Death like that wouldn't be "too easy" either, I think. Keep in mind that you are sacrificing a lot of buff slots to achieve it. Two song slots, one barspell slot, and some gear on top of that. It could be viable to let the tank have those buffs while using a bit fewer anti-death buffs on the other melees. That is, of course, assuming that the enmity system actually was in a workable state.

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Originally Posted by saevel

Why would a tank, or support crew for that matter, have a lower expectation of gear then a melee?

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There are DD that function just fine, if not better, with normal magian weapons. I'm not sure why the support crew would need a relic/emp at all. PLDs apparently keel over dead the moment they leave the mog house unless they have Aegis or Ochain.

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DD's are not pretty much expected to have a legendary weapon (Relic / Emp) to participate in any high end content.

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I assume you mean "now" expected. DD seem to be expected to have a relic/emp for anything, high-end or not. Not always, but I've certainly seen shouters ask for them in events that simply don't require them.

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And while this would be messed up, getting a Emp to 85~90 is easy just like getting a Relic to 95 is easy. Both take time, but they are definitely attainable by everyone in the game.

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It's funny, because I'm actually finding it much harder to get my second one done than my first and my first wasn't a cakewalk and my 2nd is supposed to be much easier. The support just isn't there. That's probably just me though. I'm sure everyone else is doing just fine with theirs.

Are you saying you don't have 10 mules to hold KIs for you while you dualbox the NMs. Camiie? That's just terrible. You might as well quit right now!

But on a more serious note, has anyone mathed out the performance of various lv99 weapons compared to lv85 WoE weapons? To me, it seems like no matter what your gear and no matter which Empy it is, people think you're "good" if you have them, no matter how other weapons perform compared to them. Is a lv99 Trial-Hagun + shoha actually worse than a lv85 Masamune? Is an lv99 OA2 greatsword+resolution significantly worse than a 85 caladbolg?

No matter what the actual math says, the general feeling I get from the community is that "any Empy at any level > any other weapon that isn't relic/mythic", while almost none of them have actually read up on any math supporting that.

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Originally Posted by Camiie

While essentially true, the fact that one needs what are supposed to be luxury items just to play the job with anything resembling functionality is a telling sign that something is very wrong in Pallytown.

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I'm not saying they are required, but if you're playing Paladin, it likely isn't because you're needed to be PLD, but rather because you WANT to play it, in which case being a PLD like that, you should probably be working on at least one of those shields.

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Originally Posted by Camiie

I suppose not having a pair of legendary-class shields that, by design, not everyone is intended to have could be considered half-assing, but I would say the real half-assers are SE for creating a job that needs such things just to function. I dunno, maybe people like that it's that way. It's not something I consider good, but maybe I'm the exception.

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Not exactly what I meant.

I'm a firm believer that gear does not make a better player, but rather it can make things more manageable for a player's poorer skill level. There's a group of poorly skilled Paladins that could benefit from the crutch of Ochain or Aegis, and there are many skilled Paladin's who could benefit from the support of the same shields.

The difference is that the group that are skilled at the job don't NEED the Relic/Empyrean to at least perform at an acceptable level, while the group of not very well skilled paladins can't function as well without.

I'm not even trying to be elitist. More realist than anything. There are some people who will use the shields as a crutch for their lack of skill, and there are others who will use them to augment their already high skill with the job.