FFXI fixed!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Komori

To me, your both right on certain things. Not every Joe/Jane pink will stay that way, we were all "noobs" at one point, so if some can raise to the top then so can the rest of us. But not everyone aspires to reach the top, some are content to just do whatever or the easiest content and then leave the game. And others don't mind sitting in the middle, neither being above par or below it. And then of course you have the few that want to dominate this game. I know people who I've personally offered to get +1 for and they refused, saying Aurore/Perle/Teal did just fine.

But I've also seen people go from being Aurore/Perle/Teal and build up to the best gear and multiple empys and relics. We all play this game for different reasons and have different opinions and wants.

Bottom line is; looking at the first post having seven likes and the third having fifty-six. Right now, you few are in the minority and I don't think it's honestly worth SE's time to incoporate something that only a small percentage would take advantage of and the rest wouldn't bother. Most people are still busy working on clearing Nyzul Uncharted, Legion and all of the new revamped content and preparing for the new content that's coming, I suggest "hardcores" work on all the current content and wait to see New Salvage and Seekers also before asking for this.

---

I can't argue with this at all it's clear cut to the point and an excellent post. Kudo's and a 100% like. I wish it was simple to explain the minority with just those numbers. It's unfortunate that sometimes it takes more then a good point to make someone recognize this.

When arguing with Ar con about moral implications or personal bias his stance doesn't recognize these things. He overlooks or has forgotten the real history and/or common knowledge about the community thats available to everyone. :confused:

There's no doubt, in my mind his views represent the same rant posed in the original post but is trying to make it more appealing to people in his messages. I may be wrong but the effort to defend this topic against the votes speaks for itself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sarick

When arguing with Ar con about moral implications or personal bias his stance doesn't recognize these things. He overlooks or has forgotten the real history and/or common knowledge about the community thats available to everyone. :confused:

---

You have yet to tell me why you think I'm biased, or even what I'm biased towards. You also have yet to tell me how anything I suggested is immoral. It seems you've completely stepped away from trying to make a counterpoint to the suggestion and put all your efforts into your personal crusade against me. And now you just completely agree with anything people say that isn't supporting me, even when you don't realize what they're talking about.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sarick

There's no doubt, in my mind his views represent the same rant posed in the original post but is trying to make it more appealing to people in his messages. I may be wrong but the effort to defend this topic against the votes speaks for itself.

---

I'm not defending it against the votes, I'm defending it against groundless propaganda. If an idea is presented and the masses dislike it, I can live with that. If some idiot comes along and starts to spout bullshit wherever they can to taint the people arguing in either party and/or the idea presented, I'll do what I can to call them out on it. Fortunately you've moved on from defending your position to trying to insult me with petty attempts. Since I feel no need to defend myself against your accusations, that means there's less work for me involved.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arcon

If an idea is presented and the masses dislike it, I can live with that.

---

By responding in just does that make your points any more valid? You didn't bring anything to the table or offer something useful to compromise with the topic either. It appeared as a devote attempt toward a single direction. It also appeared as though the masses didn't exist or you simply didn't care about them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arcon

If some idiot comes along and starts to spout bullshit wherever they can to taint the people arguing in either party and/or the idea presented, I'll do what I can to call them out on it. Fortunately you've moved on from defending your position to trying to insult me with petty attempts. Since I feel no need to defend myself against your accusations, that means there's less work for me involved.

---

I don't deny this, but keep in mind it was intentional to find what makes you tick, so the idiot part is a misunderstanding on your part. I know exactly what I'm doing to test your resolve.:cool:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arcon

I believe that many of them are just afraid that the result will be another Neo-Nyzul. Neo-Nyzul fits the description of what's suggested if you look at it superficially, as it has different rewards based on different floors you can clear. But I'd tell you this, if the event itself wasn't quite this luck-dependant and had a few annoying time wasters removed it would be a lot more popular and you'd see many people trying to clear it.

---

I agree with this partly people are afraid. History confirms this. Why?, It'd still have the luck a factor and exclude some players who try as they might manage to fail after a substantial amount of attempts. Just trying to beat the floors should reward players with performance points they can use toward the best gear. This is another alternative to having HQ gear drop in all pools.

Performance points would still be based around their performance meaning they'd learn from the process but encouraged to keep working at it. I've been trying to say this all along to imply sense fairness in the previous system. Players could team up with average players the way abysea content is setup and eventually get the gear they want.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arcon

It would be a matter of adjusting it to a fair level, but if that was done correctly, I say it would be very popular among the playerbase. Imagine a Neo-Nyzul where you'd get a piece guaranteed depending on the floor you cleared even if you overshoot (like getting a guaranteed F80 piece if you get to F85). Now imagine that same Nyzul with some luck factors removed (for example no lamp floors and constant 7 floor jumps). I'd bet you a relic that people would do the shit out of it.

And even if they didn't make it to the top, they'd still get rewarded depending on their performance. Despite that, they still wouldn't lose motivation to try if they saw that F100 was within their reach. This, in turn, would give them many chances to practice the content.

They'd get better at communication, identifying the right mobs, positioning and pathing, even the random fights within the event. I know this for a fact because the same was true with regular Nyzul at 75, and I've been in enough parties to notice. You could definitely identify a Nyzul newbie and tell him apart from the guy who was 0/40 on Askar Gambieras.

---

I disagree with placing fodder gear into the game. It just doesn't generate interest you think it does. Have you seen the lower tiers of Neo Nyzul gear? It's trash and worthless in comparison to gear of the same level. The only gear thats useful is from the highest floors. The rest is literally absolute junk.

Under my revised suggestion everyone would still have a chance at the higher tier stuff for trying. Players who compete at the higher level and win would be rewarded with 100% and/or 100% items to be used upgrades for related content. Players who compete and fail still are rewarded in a different way. In my previous example I was for a drop bonus for higher tiers.

If they feel the content is to hard they can opt for a lower tier with a penalty in their performance allowances. Likewise, If they think they can do better or want a higher challenge they can choose a higher tier and be rewarded with greater performance allowances. This allows everyone a chance at the same content and doesn't exclude anyone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arcon

It's just a matter of adjusting the event so it actually is doable.

---

I strongly disagree. it should also about creating motivation for players to participate in higher teirs. Simply put motivating them with performance allowances that they can use to purchase the high quality gear. This would make it available to everyone.

I want to hear why you would disagree any with this. I've written the core aspects and painted a picture as best I could without insulting you, implying personal bias or attacking your credibility. If you have a better solution or compromise lets hear it.

I understand what you meant Arcon. But I can assure you, SE will never make an event even of this difficulty caliber and it being 100% unless your hitting the very tippy top. But since they would be super buffing this piece of equipment since this event would be harder than anything currently ingame then it's pretty much a given they'd have to give it suberb stats to get anyone to do it, that's the only reason people do Neo Nyzul. Because it's gear pretty much outdoes anything else we have right now. And because of these stats; SE would more than likely in return make it a very small drop rate and we would be in the same boat as before.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Komori

I understand what you meant Arcon. But I can assure you, SE will never make an event even of this difficulty caliber and it being 100% unless your hitting the very tippy top. But since they would be super buffing this piece of equipment since this event would be harder than anything currently ingame then it's pretty much a given they'd have to give it suberb stats to get anyone to do it, that's the only reason people do Neo Nyzul. Because it's gear pretty much outdoes anything else we have right now. And because of these stats; SE would more than likely in return make it a very small drop rate and we would be in the same boat as before.

---

Did you like my last system, in the post I last created? I didn't see a like so I'm assuming you overlooked my post or found it's content of low quality. Yet again I agree with you here on scales of challenge/difficulty. You haven't been directly arguing against me so I'm unsure of your opinion/suggestion in my recent reply to Arcon.

I want you to help validate if my revised solution seems doable and fair to everyone. It's much like relic purchases but non-transferable. ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sarick

By responding in just does that make your points any more valid? You didn't bring anything to the table or offer something useful to compromise with the topic either. It appeared as a devote attempt toward a single direction. It also appeared as though the masses didn't exist or you simply didn't care about them.

---

I didn't offer a compromise because you've done nothing to convince me that this idea isn't perfectly valid. And the masses aren't arguing against me, you are. The masses are silently ignoring us both.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sarick

I don't deny this, but keep in mind it was intentional to find what makes you tick, so the idiot part is a misunderstanding on your part. I know exactly what I'm doing to test your resolve.:cool:

---

"I know I was being stupid, but I did it on purpose to test if you would realize I was being stupid!"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sarick

I disagree with placing fodder gear into the game. It just doesn't generate interest you think it does. Have you seen the lower tiers of Neo Nyzul gear? It's trash and worthless in comparison to gear of the same level. The only gear thats useful is from the highest floors. The rest is literally absolute junk.

---

You're completely out of your mind. The lower tier Nyzul gear is still good. Great even. So what if it doesn't compare to the full reward? If it did, why would anyone try to do it? Shoot for the top, but be awarded for what you achieve.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sarick

Under my revised suggestion everyone would still have a chance at the higher tier stuff for trying. Players who compete at the higher level and win would be rewarded with 100% and/or 100% items to be used upgrades for related content. Players who compete and fail still are rewarded in a different way. In my previous example I was for a drop bonus for higher tiers.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sarick

I want to hear why you would disagree any with this. I've written the core aspects and painted a picture as best I could without insulting you, implying personal bias or attacking your credibility. If you have a better solution or compromise lets hear it.

---

Your "revised suggestion" is the same crap that you've been trying to force-feed down my throat for the better part of a week. And I already said on the first few pages why it didn't compare. And several more times after that. It's the same "patience should substitute skill" philosophy you've been preaching all along in this thread, which is precisely what I took an issue with. It's nothing new. Zero compromise, the one thing you've been accusing me of for about twenty pages now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Komori

I understand what you meant Arcon. But I can assure you, SE will never make an event even of this difficulty caliber and it being 100% unless your hitting the very tippy top. But since they would be super buffing this piece of equipment since this event would be harder than anything currently ingame then it's pretty much a given they'd have to give it suberb stats to get anyone to do it, that's the only reason people do Neo Nyzul. Because it's gear pretty much outdoes anything else we have right now. And because of these stats; SE would more than likely in return make it a very small drop rate and we would be in the same boat as before.

---

Why are you so sure? And even if you were, why shouldn't we still suggest it? If they don't listen, whatever, it'll be the same as it is now. On the off chance they do, it could possibly be something great.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arcon

You're completely out of your mind. The lower tier Nyzul gear is still good. Great even. So what if it doesn't compare to the full reward? If it did, why would anyone try to do it? Shoot for the top, but be awarded for what you achieve.

---

Be honest. Have you ever seen anyone wearing the gear from any floor besides 100? I haven't. As a matter of fact, I just had to look it up to be sure I would even recognize it if I did.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

Be honest. Have you ever seen anyone wearing the gear from any floor besides 100?

---

Never. Because the event is not designed to put out that gear. If it worked like I suggested a while ago, lots of people would be wearing it. Right now, everyone wants to shoot for the top, so they aim at F100. But if they get 99, which is already impressive, they get nothing out of it. That's why I said it should reward people depending on how they perform. Giving them a F80 win if they get to 90+ (even without aiming for 80 specifically) would fix that. Then people would still shoot for 100, but would also be rewarded depending on how good they did.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arcon

I didn't offer a compromise because you've done nothing to convince me that this idea isn't perfectly valid. And the masses aren't arguing against me, you are. The masses are silently ignoring us both.

---

The only thing you done is put nothing on the table but another easy button alternative. Everything you've been saying up to this point just leads me deeper into the belief that you don't want to compromise anything. It's the simplest solution to the evidence at hand. As for the masses they don't need to argue with you. The masses speak when they don't use the content to it's full potential.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arcon

You're completely out of your mind. The lower tier Nyzul gear is still good. Great even. So what if it doesn't compare to the full reward? If it did, why would anyone try to do it? Shoot for the top, but be awarded for what you achieve.

---

There is better stuff players can use. Frank supports my stance on this and posed a unique argument. Your denial only exist because you have no other defense. It's the community who ultimately decides if they think it's good or not not you or me. I think it's total junk and I have every right to say this.

On a further note I didn't see any of the lower tier equipment in your equip history. I wonder why...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arcon

Your "revised suggestion" is the same crap that you've been trying to force-feed down my throat for the better part of a week. And I already said on the first few pages why it didn't compare. And several more times after that. It's the same "patience should substitute skill" philosophy you've been preaching all along in this thread, which is precisely what I took an issue with. It's nothing new. Zero compromise, the one thing you've been accusing me of for about twenty pages now.

---

What's the same?, whats different?, Whats your solution? why is it your solution? why? why? why? You still haven't given anything other then obscure personal bias. The masses can't work with that, and the developers can't work with it either.

Again, you're wrong. It's not the same thing. The first was totally depended on the luck of higher drop rates at higher tiers. The revision is based around performance assessment points. Totally different in that respect. The only part that wasn't modified is the fact that all players could eventually get it through effort. The burden of proof shifts in my favor if you can't prove otherwise.

The fact remains you want it one way and one way only, "It's my way or the highway." You can't even create a plausible alternative yet, you argue about it like their are better methods. If everyone lived by that logic we'd still be living in the stone ages. People would complain or argue about things and never attempt to find solutions for them. It's very destructive path. It fails in so many ways.

Come up with a compromise that puts the items in all tiers without "force feeding" your personal bias. You know the 'If you can't beat it you don't deserve it, GTFO" mentality.' I urge you to at least try to show a little bit of ingenuity and creativeness. I really doubt you have the skills or patience to do this. If you can't come up with an alternative compromise then you should just try harder. Are you up to the challenge or do you not have the skill set to be creative?

If you say no, then you're hypocrite. Why, I offered you a challenge. If we base this around your methodology people who can't conform don't deserve reward. The reward is recognition that you're capable of doing more then just disagreeing. In this case if you can't put solutions on the table you should follow your on beliefs and consider more training. Shoot for the top, but be awarded for what you achieve.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arcon

Why are you so sure? And even if you were, why shouldn't we still suggest it? If they don't listen, whatever, it'll be the same as it is now. On the off chance they do, it could possibly be something great.

---

I'll bring up a famous quote of relevance by George Santayana. He said "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." I think the games hardcore history speaks for itself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arcon

Never. Because the event is not designed to put out that gear. If it worked like I suggested a while ago, lots of people would be wearing it. Right now, everyone wants to shoot for the top, so they aim at F100. But if they get 99, which is already impressive, they get nothing out of it. That's why I said it should reward people depending on how they perform. Giving them a F80 win if they get to 90+ (even without aiming for 80 specifically) would fix that. Then people would still shoot for 100, but would also be rewarded depending on how good they did.

---

I have seen some people wearing the +2~3 gear but its very rare to see. In either case I plan to do my static I am working on weirdly I suppose, because my plan is to gear everyone up to a good standard, then try to hit 80 3~4 runs for some +3 gear. Heavy DD body is still good for WSs given the +WS%, while the legs are still a nice STP/Haste piece, and the hands are not to bad for WSs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arcon

Never. Because the event is not designed to put out that gear. If it worked like I suggested a while ago, lots of people would be wearing it. Right now, everyone wants to shoot for the top, so they aim at F100. But if they get 99, which is already impressive, they get nothing out of it. That's why I said it should reward people depending on how they perform. Giving them a F80 win if they get to 90+ (even without aiming for 80 specifically) would fix that. Then people would still shoot for 100, but would also be rewarded depending on how good they did.

---

Again, you think nothing of tiered difficulty to suit everyone. The people who want rewards don't deserve it if they can't find a way to get it by hook or crook. It still doesn't give people who fail a chance to get the same gear.

Also, in your example you suggest dumbing down the artificial difficulty in the the event making it easier. I don't know how you can say I what more challenging content on one hand. Then on the other hand say these events should be dumbed down"

Yes, it'll make people do the event more because the artificial difficulty level is decreased. It won't create a new higher tier, it'll just be an easier content requirement everyone to compete in.

Maybe you do have some creativity after all. Anything else you want to suggest since the solutions you offered where universal easy buttons for everyone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sarick

Again, you think nothing of tiered difficulty to suit everyone only. The people who want rewards don't deserve it if they can't find a way to get it by hook or crook. It still doesn't give people who fail a chance to get the same gear.

Also, in your example it ask to dumb down the event making it easier. I don't know how you can say I what more challenging content on one hand. Then on the other hand say these events need dumbed down"

Yes, it'll make people do the event more because the artificial difficulty level is decreased. It won't create a higher tier it'll just be the same requirement everyone to complete it in the dumbed down version.

Maybe you do have some creativity after all. Anything else you want to suggest since you've offered a universal easy button for everyone?

---

Ok easy way to say things. Neo-Nyzul did what is being asked for except it has way to much luck involved, if the majority of the event was skill based it could work. 5 sets of gear, they get better as they go up. If you are a better player and have better gear you have a better chance at the stronger gear. However the gear below it is more attainable and will also help you to get closer to the highest tier.

What he said also does not make it easier, it makes it so when you do a run to attempt floor 100 you do not end up with nothing for your attempt, even VW got that part right, you always get something, even if only logs. NNI basically is a big roll of the die with some luck mixed in, but if you set your goal at 80, and get an amazing run with 10 minutes left and could make those 20 floors, you just got screwed. The boss floors should be a KI, and the ability to drop a piece of gear, as they are now. However at the same time they should be somewhat a bonus or a difficult bump in the road, you should not have to stop there to get any reward at all.

Thats not to say this idea is without flaw though. I myself have alot of friends, but very few who I world well with that are well geared enough to do NNI. Now I could go find a better group with better gear, but I wouldn't work as well with them most likely, and groups like that are prone to break sooner than a group of friends who know eachother. These are just a few problems with the idea, but it would work well if done right, NNI is to luck based, but if alot of that luck were replaced with skill, I would see it as what is being asked for. A piece of content with hard difficulty, has tiered rewards based on the skill of the group, everyone can set a goal and try to get it, then use the gear from it to climb higher if they so choose, and overall it would work to make players strive to attain their gear and better themselves.

I wont lie, I haven't read most of the last 5 pages as its seemed like a stupid/pointless argument between 2 people, but I wanted to through my opinion in on what seems to be asked for through my quick gaze of posts, and saw something NNI related, which made me think of how close it seems to be to the goal I think is trying to be achieved.

He just wants to reduce the artificial difficulty generated by a luck based system. I'm perfectly aware of that. Don't you think the artificial difficulty is part of what makes the content harder? If it isn't making it content easier by removing these flaws then how is it staying the same difficulty level?

If SE removed those randoms then they'd have to introduce new challenges to keep the difficulty/time sink they want.

Nobody takes +2/+3 etc Nyzul gear seriously. Not even SE, which is why you can't even store it.

Although, I've been arguing with Arcon some time now I do agree with some of his points. I disagree completely with his recent statement that the lower gear is worthwhile. We agree almost entirely with the exception of alternate routes players can receive the same HQ gear. I wanted a back door available for when players fail or don't manage to progress. I explained that there could be many factors that aren't easily recognizable. He was firmly dead set against it.

When I looked at this view I saw it much like SE's version of skilling up guard pre-update. It was setup so the only way you could get skill is by successful guards. This meant in order to skill up one had to go though extreme measures just to reach the goal of capped skill. This is much like how some of the systems are setup today. The way I see Arcon fixing things was he wanting to just raise the skill up rate for each success. Under this method we'd still need to successfully block to get rewarded. It just wasn't enough even if every single block gave a tiny reward.

The last update brought about a change where not only do you get rewarded for succeeding but also in the failures as a lower skill up reward. This would be the performance points I mentioned. In the long run. if the backup system had this subset to encourage players they wouldn't be forced to one path, they'd always get rewarded through a backdoor. They'd gain experience both in participation skill and long term goals that would build over time. The natural real life limitations would be less of an issue under this setup.

On an ending note, It's actually pointless to explain this if the benefits go through deef ears. Anyway, Arcon already conceded in an earlier response to some extent so I'm content with that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sarick

He just wants to reduce the artificial difficulty generated by a luck based system.

---

Oh, well then I completely agree with him.

Quote:

---

I'm perfectly aware of that.

---

You rather have items go to lucky people while effort is made to be pointless?

Quote:

---

Don't you think the artificial difficulty is part of what makes the content harder?

---

If by harder you mean more annoying, yes. I do not like my life being decided by a roll of a die, I rather my skill effect what I get.

Quote:

---

If it isn't making it content easier by removing these flaws then how is it staying the same difficulty level?

---

Make Nyzul harder by skill, and take less luck, you will not have an easier event, might have a harder event if done right, but at least it wouldn't be a giant die roll every day with skill just being a little better chance at rolling a good number.

Quote:

---

If SE removed those randoms then they'd have to introduce new challenges to keep the difficulty/time sink they want.

---

I would love new challenges, I would hate more luck based things. I have no idea who would like to spam Qilin 500+ times for a single dagger, that does not seem enjoyable to me in any way shape or form. Luck is good, but there is a limit, and this game has passed that limit a few times, VW & NNI are great examples.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Demon6324236

Oh, well then I completely agree with him. You rather have items go to lucky people while effort is made to be pointless? If by harder you mean more annoying, yes. I do not like my life being decided by a roll of a die, I rather my skill effect what I get.

---

It's pointless arguing with you on these aspects as I agree with them too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Demon6324236

Make Nyzul harder by skill, and take less luck, you will not have an easier event, might have a harder event if done right, but at least it wouldn't be a giant die roll every day with skill just being a little better chance at rolling a good number. I would love new challenges, I would hate more luck based things.

---

It's pointless arguing with you on these aspects as I agree with them as well. I only disagreed that that gear rewards for lower tiers was junk. I thought I added something along the lines "If they remove the artificial difficulty they'll have to make it harder another way." I'm not sure if I said this because it's late and I'm tired.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Demon6324236

I have no idea who would like to spam Qilin 500+ times for a single dagger, that does not seem enjoyable to me in any way shape or form. Luck is good, but there is a limit, and this game has passed that limit a few times, VW & NNI are great examples.

---

I agree here to a large extent, what I've been fighting with him over is the right for a back door where failed attempts had some rewards for effort. Nothing you've posted above I won't argue with because, I agree with it. That quote of mine implies "He ONLY wants this" it meant other paths for getting the same rewards are non-negotiable.

Do, you feel better now knowing that I'm not against fixing the system only improving on what people already want?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sarick

There is better stuff players can use. Frank supports my stance on this and posed a unique argument. Your denial only exist because you have no other defense. It's the community who ultimately decides if they think it's good or not not you or me. I think it's total junk and I have every right to say this.

On a further note I didn't see any of the lower tier equipment in your equip history. I wonder why...

---

See everything I said in my last post.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sarick

Come up with a compromise that puts the items in all tiers without "force feeding" your personal bias.

---

Why would I come up with a compromise with that when that is precisely what I do not want? It's as if someone suggested to add healing magic to a BRD and you said "You can't even think of a compromise with no healing magic for a BRD!", it's an entirely pointless argument. It's not a compromise if the very thing want is not being considered. You want me to give up my idea entirely in favor of yours. Fuck that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sarick

You know the 'If you can't beat it you don't deserve it, GTFO" mentality.' I urge you to at least try to show a little bit of ingenuity and creativeness. I really doubt you have the skills or patience to do this. If you can't come up with an alternative compromise then you should just try harder. Are you up to the challenge or do you not have the skill set to be creative?

---

I'm as creative as a loaf of bread. I won't even pretend otherwise. Yet the example I gave in my previous post about Nyzul is already a good start.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sarick

If you say no, then you're hypocrite. Why, I offered you a challenge. If we base this around your methodology people who can't conform don't deserve reward.

---

I don't want a reward from you. Unless that reward is you shutting the hell up already. Regardless, see my last example.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sarick

I'll bring up a famous quote of relevance by George Santayana. He said "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." I think the games hardcore history speaks for itself.

---

Famous yes, relevant no. Here's a non-famous but relevant quote: "Don't make up shit that isn't related to the discussion." Another thing you don't seem to understand is that my solution would not make things worse, only better. Now we have hardcore-mode only. With this suggestion we'd have hardcore-mode but also lower difficulty settings. So why exactly is this bad? Right now we already have content that distinguishes people, and you seem to be convinced that SE is unable to change, so we'll keep having hardcore content that regular players can't clear, right? So what exactly is your point? "No, this is a bad idea because it'll be like it already is only slightly better"?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sarick

Again, you think nothing of tiered difficulty to suit everyone only. The people who want rewards don't deserve it if they can't find a way to get it by hook or crook. It still doesn't give people who fail a chance to get the same gear.

---

Fucking yes. People who fail should not get the gear. That's the entire point. Don't tell me you missed that while arguing for the entire thread?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sarick

Also, in your example you suggest dumbing down the artificial difficulty in the the event making it easier. I don't know how you can say I what more challenging content on one hand. Then on the other hand say these events should be dumbed down"

---

Fucking yes, again. Artificial difficulty and challenge are not the same thing. Artificial difficulty is giving a bunny outside of San d'Oria a TP move that deals 500 damage. That's not a challenge though, it's unfair and entirely luck-based, the only way to win against that is to hope they don't use it. There's zero challenge involved. Challenge would be to give them TP moves that you can survive but with a certain strategy. Use conal moves with a long enough charge time for example. That would at least involve some skill to survive. What I suggested was reducing the artificial difficulty, not the actual challenge. Do you think Nyzul would be easy to clear with what I suggested? You'd still better bring 4 good DDs and Enhancing Magic capped SCH or you'll likely still fail.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sarick

That quote of mine implies "He ONLY wants this" it meant other paths for getting the same rewards are non-negotiable.

---

Wrong, I don't mind other paths at all. I had no issue with them adding king abjurations to Einherjar, because it was still a challenge to get to him and to fight him. What I don't want is a substantially easier way (of course one way will always be the easier one and the other the harder one, but as long as they're comparable in difficulty I still don't mind). I think skill should reward you in a unique way. And I also think the game should motivate people to play with skill. That's about the only things we disagree upon.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arcon

See everything I said in my last post.

yes. People who fail should not get the gear. That's the entire point. Don't tell me you missed that while arguing for the entire thread?

---

Cussing removed from original quote because it valuates the terms of service agreement I agreed to.

So it does come down to you being an evil little fart that doesn't want people to have what you can get or the fact they might not have the capability to get. Humm, I wonder where my baseless accusations come from. In your opinion people who might not have the skill sets don't deserve the same equipment you have even if they bust their asses trying for it. I don't see this as very moral for yourself or community. :(

These are elitist, uncaring, screw the little guy attitudes. It's exactly what I've been getting out of you this whole time. It's the same agenda the original poster wanted. You say you want things to be fixed, you can't fix them yourself. You can't even except that people you deem unworthy should still get the same gear if they work toward it! These are some of the reasons I've been calling you a fraud. :mad:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arcon

I had no issue with them adding king abjurations to Einherjar, because it was still a challenge to get to him and to fight him. What I don't want is a substantially easier way (of course one way will always be the easier one and the other the harder one, but as long as they're comparable in difficulty I still don't mind). I think skill should reward you in a unique way. And I also think the game should motivate people to play with skill. That's about the only things we disagree upon.

---

Motivation, doesn't include frustrating people because they're placed in full time hard mode. This isn't how a tier system works. Players also want to enjoy the game and be rewarded different ways. The extra back doors I'm asking for are there to motivate. I've already pointed out some of these back doors are partially there already. You even acknowledged that you wasn't aware of them when you slammed my argument. Looks like SE agrees with me because they added a few of them already.:p

I mentioned this above and needed to clarify it better.

Quote:

---

"You can't even except that people you deem unworthy should still get the same gear if they work toward it!"

---

The type of work, is dependent on how the subject classifies the effort. You don't classify failure as a valid effort. In your views It's a pure screw you morality that's based on personal bias. It's telling everyone this "You fail! try harder it was a good learning experience but not worthy of reward!" I don't think you realize how bad that makes you look. :(

The people you are representing aren't the little guys like Joe pink. They represent your elitist views only not SE's or the communities. You want to secretly oppress them if they can't compete on your level. Obscuring this moral logic from the readers view won't protect you or our personal bias, It's just to obvious. :mad:

Good God, have some compassion and show some leeway in this department. This won't hurt anyone but the elitist jerks who want to lord over people with their leet gear as they prance around like something special. I don't see how or why you'd object unless you are really are rooting for the pigs who lord over people. If that's the case then you really are the fraud and hypocrite I see you as. :mad:

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/300/57279893.jpg

Please go away you make me sick thinking about it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sarick

Cussing removed from original quote because it valuates the terms of service agreement I agreed to.

[..]

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/300/57279893.jpg

---

You are full of shit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sarick

So it does come down to you being an evil little fart that doesn't want people to have what you can get or the fact they might not have the capability to get. Humm, I wonder where my baseless accusations come from. In your opinion people who might not have the skill sets don't deserve the same equipment you have even if they bust their asses trying for it. I don't see this as very moral for yourself or community. :(

---

What you just said was nothing but baseless accusations, same as always. All of it was wrong and does not reflect what I believe. The entirety of what I said was that people should get the same gear. The only difference between us is that you believe it should be just handed out to everyone, regardless of what they do, whereas I believe SE should try to motivate the people through whatever means to try and be better, and make the content actually by manageable everyone. I'm suggesting to SE to put an effort in to make their content (including their rewards) more accessible. Because right now they aren't.

I believe if you fail content, you should not get the same reward as someone who wins the content. Is that such a foreign concept to you? Because if it is, you're living an entirely different life in an entirely different world. And I'm willing to bet that you're the only one there. But hey, at least they have internet there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sarick

The type of work, is dependent on how the subject classifies the effort. You don't classify failure as a valid effort. In your views It's a pure screw you morality that's based on personal bias. It's telling everyone this "You fail! try harder it was a good learning experience but not worthy of reward!" I don't think you realize how bad that makes you look. :(

---

I don't think you realize how bad stupid videos, pictures and names like "Joe pink" make you look. But as usual, you're posting bullshit that I never said or wanted. For example, I never once said that failure shouldn't give you anything. All I said was that failure shouldn't give you the same things as success. And here's the thing: if there were different difficulty tiers, even if you fail the hard content, you could win easier content. In my Nyzul example, if you didn't make it to F100, you could still get a F80 piece. How is that not rewarding?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sarick

Please go away you make me sick thinking about it.

---

Why would I care for you or what you feel? All you've done is stand in the way of proper discussion with your childish attempts and debate, insulting and ignorant. This is not your feelgood-place, this is a forum where everyone gets to discuss their opinions. If it makes you feel sick it's you who should leave.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arcon

The only difference between us is that you believe it should be just handed out to everyone, regardless of what they do.

---

Really?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arcon

Why would I care for you or what you feel? All you've done is stand in the way of proper discussion with your childish attempts and debate, insulting and ignorant. This is not your feelgood-place, this is a forum where everyone gets to discuss their opinions. If it makes you feel sick it's you who should leave.

---

I'm sick by the oppressive views you represent, I feel good that I was able to expose them. You did great job hiding this but in realty I've done enough to expose a few things about your argument and what motivates it. Kick and scream all you want SE is already slowly changing the game to include alternative routes for hardcore content.:D

You've also retaliated in the same fashion. ;)

By the way, the embedded links are comic relief, you clicked them why?:confused:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sarick

I'm sick by the oppressive views you represent, I feel good that I was able to expose them. You did great job hiding this but in realty I've done enough to expose a few things about your argument and what motivates it. Kick and scream all you want SE is already slowly changing the game to include alternative routes for hardcore content.:D

---

Awesome.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sarick

By the way, the embedded links are comic relief, you clicked them why?:confused:

---

I didn't.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arcon

Awesome.

---

So you're done arguing then.