Why Cant Final fantasy 11 get the same treatment?

Well, I do recall SE stating that FFXI will continue to run as long as their are people playing it. This is not saying they will add system upgrades to today's technology, but it will allow for Dev. to create more add-ons to keep loyal players enticed. With FFXIV overhaul being release in the 4th quarter of 2012, it will still require a great amount of time build a deep player base similar to FFXI. Til that actually happens, FFXI Dev. Team would have to work double time for new content; which is probably the reason why we all got that mystery survey.

With PS3s at a lower price for the holidays, a FFXI patch, emulator, or something is highly recommended. People have put tons of work, hours, sleepless nights, PTO days (Pay Time Off for those who don't know), missed opportunities, nagging parents, aggressive girlfriend/boyfriend, burned food, and anything else that could been worth getting anything in the game over the course of 8-10 years.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

FFXI makes them tons of money. Even if it needs a whole new transmission and a paint job, it is still worth the investment.

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Which would Volkswagon prioritize, maintaining the original VW Bugs or improving the New VW Bugs?

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A remade FFXIV has no more potential than a remade FFXI for getting new players, possibly less due to it's bad reputation.

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Windows XP is still the #1 OS. Is Microsoft making a mistake by developing Windows 8 based off of Windows 7 (plus the Windows Phone 7 'Metro' interface) instead of making a Windows XP redesign?

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The FFXIV road map says this:

1. A complete redesign of current repetitive maps
2. The implementation of a new graphics engine
3. A new server system designed for increased speed and performance
4. A fully renewed user interface

exactly what engine are you talking about that isn't getting rebuilt? and what makes you think that it is any cheaper to do it to FFXIV than it is to FFXI?

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The game engine is not getting rebuilt. The development tools are not getting rebuilt.

To exceed XI's limitations it appears the game engine - and thus the development tools - would need to be changed. For XIV this is not the case.

The graphics engine is what takes the game engine visual output and makes it monitor-readable. Changing that does not necessitate rebuilding the game's code from line 10 onward.

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Originally Posted by BurnNotice

Well, I do recall SE stating that FFXI will continue to run as long as their are people playing it. This is not saying they will add system upgrades to today's technology, but it will allow for Dev. to create more add-ons to keep loyal players enticed. With FFXIV overhaul being release in the 4th quarter of 2012, it will still require a great amount of time build a deep player base similar to FFXI. Til that actually happens, FFXI Dev. Team would have to work double time for new content; which is probably the reason why we all got that mystery survey.

With PS3s at a lower price for the holidays, a FFXI patch, emulator, or something is highly recommended. People have put tons of work, hours, sleepless nights, PTO days (Pay Time Off for those who don't know), missed opportunities, nagging parents, aggressive girlfriend/boyfriend, burned food, and anything else that could been worth getting anything in the game over the course of 8-10 years.

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That's part of why XI has less potential return from an overhaul than XI. A lot of people have already reached a point where they are Done With FFXI and will not return. An overhaul does not make it a New Game Worth Trying.

XIV is still a New Game, and may yet be made into a game seen by many as a New Game Worth Trying with the PS3 release.

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Originally Posted by Laraul

The developers NEVER said the PS2 limited the game. It's always been the player base putting words in their mouths.

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I think you should go back and look over some of the older interviews with Sage Sundi. PS2 limitations is not a player-made term.

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Originally Posted by Volkai

Which would Volkswagon prioritize, maintaining the original VW Bugs or improving the New VW Bugs?

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You can't compare ffxi/xiv to a car sale. Cars are a one time sale, not an ongoing payment (and financing doesn't count bc you owe the money whether u continue to want the car or not) truth is ffxi/xiv are closer to a service than a product. We pay each month so the devs maintain and upgrade what the product is. Would you expect that bc you use the same lawn care service that they can slack off and be worse every time you use them? No, they improve so you keep paying for their service.

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Originally Posted by Volkai

That's part of why XI has less potential return from an overhaul than XI. A lot of people have already reached a point where they are Done With FFXI and will not return. An overhaul does not make it a New Game Worth Trying.

XIV is still a New Game, and may yet be made into a game seen by many as a New Game Worth Trying with the PS3 release.

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That's not how MMO's work, people with no experience running an MMO really need to stop trying to speculate.

A MMO experience's its worst financial moments the first two years after release. MMO's are incredibly expensive to develop, typically requiring 2~3 times the work as a stand alone game. You can cut this short by excluding content you figure the players wouldn't care about (back story / cinematics / ect..) but to make a proper MMO you need those. Initial purchase and subscription fee's never cover the cost of development and rarely cover the cost of maintenance in the first year. The second year is usually a little better, you can reach breakeven where your making enough to keep the servers running but you still need to pay back the investments for creating the game to begin with. With each passing year the game becomes more profitable, even if your subscription base flat lines. Once you've paid back that initial investment the game is running on pure profit, the longer it runs the more total profit it'll pull in.

MMO's become worth MORE the longer their around not less. This is why EQ and Aion are still running, their still producing pure profit for their respective companies. The subscription fee's completely pay for maintenance and whatever new content that's developed, and whatever is left over is pocketed as profit for the owners.

FFXI is producing pure profit for SE, it's already paid for it's own development costs and the costs for all the expansions. Subscriptions are paying for the maintenance and creation of new content. Their even being used to pay for the modification / rebuilding of FFXIV. FFXIV failed as a product, pure and simple. It was released and within the first two years failed to pay back it's initial development costs, it further failed to pay for it's own maintenance and content creation. Investing further money into it will not yield better results, it'll only increase the amount of money that it needs to pay back.

This is why their remaking it as a new product, FFXIV 2.0. It's relaunching and will basically be considered a new MMO. It won't break even for two years, even longer if they stick with the no-AH mentality. It wont' reach the same profitability level as FFXI for another five to seven years unless it has a WoW explosion, which I frankly doubt will happen (but anythings possible).

So all the people talking about "down with XI, XIV is newer" don't know what their talking about. To not continue development for XI would be a fatal mistake for their MMO branding.

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Originally Posted by Laraul

The developers NEVER said the PS2 limited the game. It's always been the player base putting words in their mouths. Just as you have now... in fact you put a lot words in a lot of mouths...

Here I have some questions that YOU should ask yourself. When Microsoft designed Xinput... why did they design it in such a way to make it incompatible with directinput?

How does an OS that uses "D3D 10/11" cause "graphical issues" for "D3D 8" games but not "D3D 9" games. Wouldn't they show up in D3D 9 games as well? And what "graphical issues" are you referring too?

How would removing people trying to "fix" a game you claim is "broken" to go work on a ten year old game many people say works pretty well but is reaching the end of it's development lifespan help anyone? Besides you at least.

Did you know that the POL client actually uses D3D9? You didn't? What a surprise... I wonder what else you don't know...

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No such thing as "development lifespan". MMO's do not have a shelf life, they don't expire. They are constantly rebuild and recreated, they only get turned off when they can no longer pay for their own maintenance fee. MMO's represent a significant up front financial investment, once they pay this investment off their running on pure profit and turn out to be one of the most profitable entertainment products made. Their this profitable precisely because they don't expire, movies expire, console games expire, even computer games expire, but MMO's can be rebuild and remade constantly as long as their are players playing.

Stop thinking NEW = BETTER.

I really appreciate the direction SE has been taking since they released FF13 & FF14. They know they messed up, and want to make right on the series by fixing all the mistakes they made via Final Fantasy XIII-2 and Final Fantasy XIV 2.0.

They have also been putting a lot more effort into FF11 than they have in the past. Its good to see the game expanding and many of the frustrating elements being remedied over time.

This thread is so frustrating. It's a bunch of people agreeing with each other angrily.

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Originally Posted by Volkai

Which would Volkswagon prioritize, maintaining the original VW Bugs or improving the New VW Bugs?

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Bad example. Volkswagon didn't trash the Bug when the passat came out. They updated the bug. It still sells really well.

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Windows XP is still the #1 OS. Is Microsoft making a mistake by developing Windows 8 based off of Windows 7 (plus the Windows Phone 7 'Metro' interface) instead of making a Windows XP redesign?

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Again a bad example. Microsoft sells the software. they do not charge monthly fees for it, so yes. They gain profit if you have to upgrade. they make nothing if you stay on xp forever. FFXI is licensed on a recurring monthly fee. If you leave it, they stop making money off it.

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The game engine is not getting rebuilt. The development tools are not getting rebuilt.

To exceed XI's limitations it appears the game engine - and thus the development tools - would need to be changed. For XIV this is not the case.

The graphics engine is what takes the game engine visual output and makes it monitor-readable. Changing that does not necessitate rebuilding the game's code from line 10 onward.

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I see you ignored all the other changes they are making that do require recoding the game. Good job.

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Originally Posted by Laraul

Did you know that the POL client actually uses D3D9? You didn't? What a surprise... I wonder what else you don't know...

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No it doesn't, it uses D3D8.DLL

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Originally Posted by Laraul

How does an OS that uses "D3D 10/11" cause "graphical issues" for "D3D 8" games but not "D3D 9" games. Wouldn't they show up in D3D 9 games as well?

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Short version. D3D8 emulation in Windows Vista and Windows 7 is a wrapper that wraps to another wrapper.

D3D8.DLL -> D3D9.DLL -> D3D10.DLL

D3D8.DLL and D3D9.DLL are both wrappers. D3D8.DLL converts D3D8 pixel and vertex shaders (Shader Model 1.0) into Shader Model 2.0 and converts D3D8 calls into D3D9 calls. But D3D9.DLL is also a wrapper that converts D3D9 calls into D3D10.

Another problem is that Microsoft, ATI and Nvidia really don't care about D3D8 because nobody uses it anymore. However D3D9 is still widely used for current games as well as by Windows Aero.

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Originally Posted by Laraul

And what "graphical issues" are you referring too?

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In Windows Vista and Windows 7 textures will flicker under certain conditions. The easiest texture glitch to spot is the feathers on the wings of Roc type monsters.

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Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull

No it doesn't, it uses D3D8.DLL

Short version. D3D8 emulation in Windows Vista and Windows 7 is a wrapper that wraps to another wrapper.

D3D8.DLL -> D3D9.DLL -> D3D10.DLL

D3D8.DLL and D3D9.DLL are both wrappers. D3D8.DLL converts D3D8 pixel and vertex shaders (Shader Model 1.0) into Shader Model 2.0 and converts D3D8 calls into D3D9 calls. But D3D9.DLL is also a wrapper that converts D3D9 calls into D3D10.

Another problem is that Microsoft, ATI and Nvidia really don't care about D3D8 because nobody uses it anymore. However D3D9 is still widely used for current games as well as by Windows Aero.

In Windows Vista and Windows 7 textures will flicker under certain conditions. The easiest texture glitch to spot is the feathers on the wings of Roc type monsters.

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Thank you for a better explanation.

The texture flickering is very specific and happens on certain conditions. Some may have the issue, others will not.

Regardless of driver versions, with my Radeon 5770 and Win 7 x64, texture tends to flicker on certain pieces of armor or texture overlaps and flickers in certain tunnels like Ranguemont Pass.

(You will notice a section of the tunnel where lighter colored wall texture overlaps a darker colored texture and flicker. The darker colored texture is used to give the impression of shadows since the game doesn't use realistic lighting and shadow. Only on characters and monsters is there any semblance of semi-realistic lighting and shadow. You will still encounter an issue where the shadow doesn't neatly match your character. For example, if you sit down with a staff attached on your back, regardless of the light source, the shadow doesn't neatly match and seems off.)

A friend with an Nvidia 285 GTX, regardless of driver versions and Win 7 x64, experiences the same issue.

Another friend with a Radeon 6870, same issue again. This disappears nearly completely once he created a separate partition for Windows XP (DX9) and ran FFXI in it. I can upload the three videos I've recorded off his computer if you want to see the texture flickering.

I just ignore it but when I see it in-game, I do notice it.

Also, regarding DirectX:

"Direct3D 9: emulates Direct3D 9 behavior as it was on Windows XP."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirectX
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ee417756.aspx

DX9 is emulated in Vista and Windows 7. Anything running on older DX versions are run through DX9. If you have played with emulators such as EPSXE (Playstation emulator) or PCSX2 (Playstation 2) or even Dolphin (Gamecube/Wii), then you will know that emulation is not perfect.

Even in virtualized computing, it isn't exactly perfect but it's better than emulation when you want to virtualize a computer. Try out Virtualbox or download VMWare Player and you will see that hardware virtualization is better than emulation. If you want to try something else to emulate, look to Apple IIe emulators. It isn't perfect, but it's close to the real thing.

But, it's simply best to know that DirectX 9 and anything that relies on it is emulated in Vista, 7, and higher. Only DirectX 10 and higher are hardware accelerated. DirectX 9Ex is not since that is used for Aero in Vista/7.

"To ensure full compatibility with older versions of Windows, some quirks of the old driver model must be emulated even with the new Windows Vista display driver model. For example, when a full-screen application loses focus, it must assume it has lost all the resources in video memory (VRAM) and reload those it created as unmanaged resources even though the new driver model handles the resources transparently without evicting them from the device context."

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ee417756.aspx

(That sounds a lot like the fullscreen error to me in FFXI.)

Even MSDN states the following:

"Recommendations
Consider the following recommendations when selecting an API for your graphical application:

Use Direct3D 9 if your application must support Windows XP or an earlier version of Windows."

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ee417756.aspx

I've been reading about this stuff for years since Vista was released. I'm more of a web and database programmer than a C/C++ programmer, but I still read about it. A good example: Before MSDN Library removed DirectX 8 pages on their website, I found out that DirectX 8 does indeed allow windowed mode in the game. Yet, at that time, Square-Enix/people behind FFXI stated themselves that windowed mode is not possible for FFXI. If it still exists on the internet, you can find this statement by them. It was during Fanfest or an interview when it was requested or asked to be implemented and the panel stating it was not possible.

Is there anything else they don't know?

And, yes, some parts of DirectX get deprecated when newer versions are released or updated. DirectX 8 introduced programmable vertex and pixel shaders. DX9 was high level shader language. By DX10, we got unified and geometry shaders. Programmable vertex/pixel shaders were changed into unified shaders. Certain things such as "capability bits," or caps, and retained mode in older versions of DirectX were removed completely in newer versions of DirectX. DirectSound was removed completely so in other words no more hardware accelerated sound. DirectInput has not been updated since DirectX8 and has since been deprecated in favor of XInput. However, games must be programmed with XInput to be compatible with it.

Also, regarding DirectInput: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirectInput

I'll be more than happy to let you talk to my friend who plays FFXI with an Xbox 360 controller. He has to resort to third party software and drivers for FFXI Config to recognize the rumble feature and triggers. FFXI Config does not recognize the trigger buttons, LT and RT, on the controller. DirectInput, more specifically DirectInput8, has not been revised since DirectX 8. Programmers must also use XInput instead of DirectInput in regards to Xbox 360 controllers. XInput only supports so-called "next generation" controllers such as the 360 controller. If the application still uses DirectInput to handle calls to-from the a controller, and the controller happens to be a 360 controller, the following issues will happen: (Again, restating what I already mentioned.)

• the left and right triggers will act as a single axis representing the signed difference between the triggers, not as independent analog axes
• vibration effects will not operate
• querying for headset devices will not operate

If you have a non-Xbox 360 controller, this is not an issue. It's why that $20 Logitech controller was recommended for FFXI some years ago. Yet, it's a rather crappy controller. (I know this from personal experience, and my friend's too.)

I can give more explanation as to why XInput would be incompatible with DirectInput, but you have to realize that both have functions and calls not available in the other. If something is supported in XInput, then it is probably not supported in DirectInput, and vice-versa. Again, that list of issues for 360 controllers in DirectInput applications is a good indication of that.

All of these issues I mentioned above can be eliminated almost completely by switching the graphics engine and underlying code to DirectX 9. If it worked for EVE Online, WoW and EQ II, which both continuously get updates and fixes to the game, then it should work for FFXI. However, the only difference here is that both games were not ports of a console version.

(By the way, another older game that doesn't run well on Windows 7 is Sim City 3000 and Sim City 4. For Sim City 4, you have to enable software rendering for the graphics not to glitch up. However, issues like disappearing highways or improper shadows and glitched clouds still occur.)

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Originally Posted by Laraul

How would removing people trying to "fix" a game you claim is "broken" to go work on a ten year old game many people say works pretty well but is reaching the end of it's development lifespan help anyone? Besides you at least.

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Also, PS2 limitation is not something derived by players.

FFXI is not at the end of its lifespan. As has been stated many times before, as long as there are players in this game, SE will continue to develop content for it and support it.

Is EQ and EQ II dead? Guild Wars? EVE Online? WoW even? All those games started near, before, or around FFXI's release. Yet, they are still supported by their respective developers and its playerbase.

If FFXI was near the end of its lifespan, then we would have heard something from Square-Enix in that regard. Star Wars Galaxy ring a bell? That game was shutdown by Sony Online Entertainment. I believe Vanguard Online is another MMO that has been shutdown as well or will be soon. Many free-to-play games who don't succeed in the crowded F2P MMO market have been shutdown.

Regardless, SE continues to give us updates to FFXI and re-hashed seasonal events with slightly new prizes. Why? There are still players who pay and play this game. Why? Friends maybe? Because other MMOs do not interest them at the moment? Or, too much time has been invested that they don't want to see it go to waste? It can be a multitude of reasons.

However, should it be fair to the playerbase who still play that FFXI get neglected? No.

If the game wasn't broken, then ask yourself why do the ones who play on the PS2 still crash in certain areas like Garden of Ru'hmet? Why do they crash when around certain NPCs like Joachim in Jeuno? Why are there disc read errors and black screen freezes for the game? I can give you a list of players on my Friend List who play on the PS2 and have experienced one or all of those issues. Many of these issues have been in the game for many years already.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

The limiting factor on zone creation wasn't really hard drive space to begin with, but rather the zone index which had a "Maximum" number of zones that could be added to the game. Reskinned zones are still separate zones on that index, which is the crux of what people freak out about when they hear "PS2 is going to limit the number of zones we can have". A lot of reskinned zones have new/different models as well, eg the Abyssea and Shadowreign areas.

Even if they filled up the index though, it's easy enough to just add a bit, adjust zone IDs, and have a larger capacity. That's what I was driving at.

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I know about the "index." It has been mentioned before on another forum. Some speculated a maximum of 256 zone IDs from 0 to 255. Another person debunked that stating that the game can support more zones. I still think it's a maximum of 256. The upcoming one or two new areas being added in an upcoming update supposedly are the last ones that can be added. Again, someone else stated that there can be more zones added after that.

Why then do we get recycled zones but not completely new ones if hard drive space isn't an issue? Sure, Abyssea-La Theine is different from La Theine, and Dynamis-Qufim is different from Qufim. Recycled zone is still recycled zone.

If there wasn't a PS2 limitation, then we wouldn't have space limitations. The higher memory capacities of the PC and PS3 already allow FF14 to access larger amounts of inventory space. So, it does indicate there is a certain level of PS2 limitation for FFXI. You can only do so much with 32 MB of RAM without resorting to programming tricks or workarounds to get a game to work with it.

Sure, it costs money and a certain amount of people to make expansions for the game. Don't you think it's a bit long overdue for that by now? I'm sure the FFXI players deserve something for playing this long. SOE, CCP, and Blizzard haven't stopped developing for their respective MMOs, why should Square-Enix stop now when there are still a sizable amount of players still playing? The game isn't dead yet. And, I know of players who came back to XI from WoW, Aion, Rift, and even FFXIV. So, there has to be a reason why the game continues to get players even if they are older players.

Square-Enix should at the very least continue to support the game regardless if it's working on FFXIV and a third MMO. It shouldn't just ignore them with small updates here and there.

And, compared to FFXIV, the players of FFXI have been paying customers far longer than the players of FFXIV have. The players of FFXI deserve something too in return for their continued support. Not just FFXIV.

You pick a title yet for that novel?

Aselin should be the player rep to the SE reps >.>

Holy wall of text batman! You know making massive drawn out posts doesn't help your cause much considering most people won't even attempt to read that. Besides the few things I skimmed through are just a repeat of whats been said with you adding more words and trying to make yourself sound legal savvy.

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Originally Posted by Aselin

But, it's simply best to know that DirectX 9 and anything that relies on it is emulated in Vista, 7, and higher. Only DirectX 10 and higher are hardware accelerated. DirectX 9Ex is not since that is used for Aero in Vista/7.

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That's not correct, D3D8 and D3D9 are hardware accelerated in Vista and Windows 7.


As I understand it the way it does it is to program D3D10's pipeline to act like D3D9's fixed function pipeline. D3D9.DLL just translates calls into something that D3D10 will understand and redirects them to D3D10.DLL which renders the 3D scene.

D3D8.DLL translates D3D8 calls to their D3D9 equivalents and sends them to D3D9.DLL (most D3D8 calls have nearly direct equivalents in D3D9)

Some game developers also program the D3D10 pipeline to act like D3D9 when they want to support D3D10 features but not have to rewrite their entire graphics engine, or they just want to use something that is familiar to them. In these cases the game is using D3D10.DLL directly and code changes still have to be made for the new API calls because you can't just send D3D9 calls to D3D10.DLL.

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Originally Posted by Aselin

DirectX 8 introduced programmable vertex and pixel shaders.

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That is not correct. DirectX 8 uses fixed function shaders, programmable shaders didn't come until DirectX 9.

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Originally Posted by Aselin

I know about the "index." It has been mentioned before on another forum. Some speculated a maximum of 256 zone IDs from 0 to 255. Another person debunked that stating that the game can support more zones. I still think it's a maximum of 256. The upcoming one or two new areas being added in an upcoming update supposedly are the last ones that can be added. Again, someone else stated that there can be more zones added after that.

Why then do we get recycled zones but not completely new ones if hard drive space isn't an issue? Sure, Abyssea-La Theine is different from La Theine, and Dynamis-Qufim is different from Qufim. Recycled zone is still recycled zone.

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Replying to the part that's relevant to my quote:

The reason we have recycled zones is not a memory issue at all, but a manpower issue. We could have gotten brand new zones with completely new designs and monsters, but we didn't. That's not because of the PS2, but simply because the Devs didn't do it.

Why? Well, there could be a variety of reasons. They may not have had the funding to keep a level/map designer on staff. They may have simply not wanted to devote the time to making a new level. It may have been an artistic/design decision, choosing to give us "Re-imagined" zones that we're familiar with rather than creating entirely new ones.

I agree that the game deserves full expansions and new zones, and I'm sure that the Developers would agree wholeheartedly if they had any say in the matter. What it inevitably comes down to is whether or not they receive a green light for the funding/manpower to do it.

SE needs to stop dumping money on 14, and pony up the cash to hire the few xtra people to make some new zones for 99. Have a few new spots to explore in there with W/e they are cooking up for the "New End Game" charge us 10 bucks in a DLC package. Hell I'll pay 20-25 if that's all that's holding back new zones, and a new city.

11 is getting new content, you just have to wait. The DEV know what we want, they've said they understand we want new zones and are gonna work on making that a reality but it takes time. Before they can do so they need to fix 14, and parts of 11 to prepare 11 for 99 content. We just got the last abyssea almost a year to this day, calm down. It will happen. They are fixing the small things in 11 right know because that's all they can do for now. New content will come, you need to sit tight the DEV have said they are going to see whst they can do in the future as far as content for us. Since abyssea, SE has been reworking both 11 and 14 alot more than they have in the past. Some progress is slow, you have to be patient. As for 14, it's stupid to not fix it. Since they started installing the fixs to 14 the game has improved a whole lot. As for 14's new engine it only makes sense for them to do this because if 14 lasts as long as 11 did/will then why wouldn't SE install the new engine on its new generation mmo?

To the DEV, keep up the good work and pass my love on to the DEv mr. moogle liason, thank you.

PS: I understand content changes in 11 are for casual gamers and such and that's fine, but please when you reveal 99 endgame I wish it to be challenging like it was at 75 and no more babying the masses with atma or auto-rr. If theres two types of endgame that would be great, one version for the casual gamer and another seriuoly harder one for the hardcore ffxi fan, thank you.

No one is blaming the Dev team. They are doing a fantastic job for having the rug pulled out from under them when the majority of the team got shifted to 14. What people in this thread, and many others are unhappy with is that SE as a corporation has decided 11 only needs a skeleton crew for development. The costs to pay additional dev team members to work on brand new zones while the current members concentrate on the content they are working on/ balance issues can be recouped. Charge 10-25$ (depending on the quantity of new zones) when 99 rolls out to offset the added dev costs.

The community is happy to pay for new areas. FFXI has stiff competition in the MMO market. Next gen tittles are being rolled out on a regular basis. WoW is releasing yet another complete expansion with new zones..new jobs etc. Now while I wouldn't subject my dog to WoW SE could stand to take a page out of their book. SE has used elements of their model already with the casual friendly modifications over the past year.

With a moderate investment for added developers, and some marketing to talk up the "New FFXI" to coincide with the 99 roll out XI could see a revitalization. Will it suddenly beat out WoW? No of course not. However, it can spread the message that people who want to come back to the game or start new will have an easier time of it that in past years. It can solidify the subscriptions it already has, and snag some new ones in the process.

Moral of the story it would recoup the extra dev costs, and solidify the game going forward.

Don't kid yourself. SE would have plenty of money to spend on a handful of quality titles if they didn't piss it all away publishing crap titles every 2 weeks.

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Originally Posted by katoplepa

anyway, SE can't read minds and can't pilot the people's feelings: I'll never play 14 even if they'll do the 3.0 version of it, and I have a lot of friends who are thinking like me, if they shut down 11 I'll say goodbye to MMO, I don't restart from zero another MMO (fail like 14 too).

if 11 is still loved and played, a serious company HAVE TO continue supporting the game their customers want to play.

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I totally agree with this and have the same attitude, 14 is fail, I tried it, only nice thing I can say about it is...well its shiny, that's it, I'm not going to drop XI to play XIV, I dont care how much work they put into it, when XI dies thats it for me

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Originally Posted by Camate

I understand your feelings about the differences between FINAL FANTASY XI and FINAL FANTASY XIV. Please understand that these games are very different entities and just as it was stated before, the operational policies as well as the size of the development team are very different as well.

Just to clarify one misconception I have been noticing for a while now...

"PS2 limitations" is not a factor for adding new areas to the game and we will in fact be adding new areas in the future, so please do not worry about this.

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I LOVE YOU, that is so going to be my new Tag.

all the people that bought ffiv and spent a good bit of money to be able to play the game and the game ended up not being worth play or as much fun and enjoyable to play as ffxi. why would we want to change and put more money into ffiv and start paying more to play a game we didn't like to start with

The one thing im wondering about is if they are focusing on 14 and all the stuff there and planning to piggyback of the 14 engine and work for pc/ps3, and later try use that work to relaunch/rework Old code / limitation of ff11.

FF11 has a way smaller dev team but if ground work is done through 14, could it be posible to later have a ReCode team that isnt as big as u might originaly needed to go through FF11 game code/Graphics and refit it on the stuff made for 14, in a way doing 2 Remakes for the price of 1 and 1/2.

I mean they are allready making PS3 engine for 14 , why not work on making the 11 posible to run on it.
idk if the ps versions run on Opengl but if so, it could open for posibility of these games to have a unsuported client for Mac/Linux/Windows in opengl ( mayby even other devices such as Ipad/Similare products/smartphone)

Im not expecting FF14 full new graphics for a game with so much content as ff11 but it getting close to 10th aniversary, and MMO's just like a building need some Repair and remake afterlong time has passed since it was made, the ff11 game would be equivelant of a house having aged 100 years as software get's older faster the RL stuff.
In a house thats 100+ years u probably might need to do rewiring of Power/phone/data cables , Making walss thicker and floors might need rework of suport beam's etc in ordre to make it more in tune with todays demands of buildings.

Over the years u are sure to have Painted/putt new carpet's / etc in layers on such a old house just like MMO's have tons of Patch work, but after while u cant Patch stuff up anymore or put new wallpaper on before u remove the old, and a bigger restoration is needed.

Houses reap the benefits of investments into development into new houses by trying to refit new ideas into older buildings while still not having to build from scratch, yes its expensive but once u are done u wont need to do so for long time again.

Im not mad about the remake of 14 and i understand why they most likely took a lot of the FF11 team to have it remade, since it hasnt made money yet, but because more or less 11 is paying for that i would like to see 11 getting something in return at a later point of time from 14.

Also id like to say Kudos to the Dev team on 11 for their hard work even though they have been resized, i belive they are working hard to do a lot of work with less manpower then what they should have for a game like 11.
The redoing of UI was a pleasant surprize, hopefully we might get some more Tweaks done to make FF11 UI be more compatibale with modern graphics settings of today, only thing keeping me from running ff11 in a higher screen resoloution atm is the Super smal text and other stuff that dont resize well on bigger screen rez.

it's already out that they are looking/working at a FFXI release for Vita. If/when that actually happens, it may open up more portability options to other platforms because of what is driving the Vita (ie: if they properly implement OpenGL for that release, it could eventually be a game changer).

inb4vita limitations.

It's already been stated before that the PS Vita is roughly as powerful as the PS3; XI would need to be a lot more taxing on system resources like XIV is/was if limitations are to occur with the handheld. IMO, though, an MMO should never be released on a console.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Just to clarify one misconception I have been noticing for a while now...

"PS2 limitations" is not a factor for adding new areas to the game and we will in fact be adding new areas in the future, so please do not worry about this.

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Just to clarify. A single dungeon dose not constitute as "adding new areas" in the player's minds. They are looking for full, expansive zones.

With Tanaka talking about completely revamping the user interface and the talk about graphics improvements in the article on Zam yesterday I would guess that the PS2 will be shown the door before 2012 is over.

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Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull

With Tanaka talking about completely revamping the user interface and the talk about graphics improvements in the article on Zam yesterday I would guess that the PS2 will be shown the door before 2012 is over.

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for those with the inquiring minds, here's a link to the article:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/story.html?story=28416

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Originally Posted by RAIST

for those with the inquiring minds, here's a link to the article:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/story.html?story=28416

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Apparently they still have absolutely no understanding of the underlying issues people have with Voidwatch.

THey still don't get that MORE LOGS DOES NOT == BETTER DROP RATES!

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Apparently they still have absolutely no understanding of the underlying issues people have with Voidwatch.

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They undetstand, they just think we will swallow it and keep doing VW for YEARS. Incredibly cheap reused content that lasts for years = delicious dev team candy. The bodies aren't even good, only reason we want them is cause they damn glow and there is nothing else to do atm.

SE should hire an elitist FFXI player and a casual FFXI player that helps them with ideas for new content.

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Originally Posted by Juri_Licious

SE should hire an elitist FFXI player and a casual FFXI player that helps them with ideas for new content.

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Well as long as they whine and complain instead of just lurk

Ito addresses the problem as being another issue of balance. "Originally, Voidwatch was designed as content for an alliance of 18 players. If you go in with 18, there will actually be a higher rate of reward than any other content in FFXI."

Oh that is rich!

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"Originally, Voidwatch was designed as content for an alliance of 18 players. If you go in with 18, there will actually be a higher rate of reward than any other content in FFXI."

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Why can't this guy get it through his thick head that having more items drop is not good if no one who needs them gets them?

Read that interview, what a big huge let down.... that's Tanaka for you. If this is what they feel about Abyssea, well, I am not sure what to look forward in the future.. It sounds like more grinding, frustration, and a whole lot more drama coming right up. It's great while it last though, Abyssea hands down is the best expansion to date!!

Interesting to note that they said Tanaka was involved through the whole abyssea portion.