Bully: it's really bad.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Morning! Sorry to make you all wait at the edges of your seats for what has been posted about Bully. Hope you all had a good labor day weekend.

Last week we added an effect to Bully that would make it easier to increase the effect of Treasure Hunter.

Based on feedback we received about this, we decided to go a different route and add an effect we felt would make you all a bit happier.

The changes to the effects are described below:

•Bully (THF lvl.93 Recast time: 3 minutes Effect Duration: 30 seconds)
Intimidates target
While under its effect: Possible to use Sneak Attack when not behind an enemy.

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My THIEF ("Guess what? You got it for free. Are you proud of yourself?") is only in the mid 40s, but is very, very happy to see this. Now it might be possible to use Sneak Attack while soloing without relying on Sleep Bolts!

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Originally Posted by Ophannus

Why is this so amazing? It's a 30 second duration and 3 min recast which means at best 1 free SA.

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Forced Crit on Rudra's Storm while THF Tanking says hello.

When I think about how the category III or whatnot merits will generally work, this sort of thing goes through my head:

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Originally Posted by Insaniac

I'm sure we will see merits/gear to either increase the duration or lower the recast. Hopefully not intimidation rate!

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Originally Posted by Insaniac

[SIZE="5"]Hopefully not intimidation rate![/SIZE]

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Originally Posted by Insaniac

[SIZE="7"]intimidation rate![/SIZE]

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Part of me is glad THF got SOMETHING even RELATIVELY useful.
The other part of me is ugh because of the recast.

Either way, I'd really like to see THF get something good enough to make me want to go THF to an event.
When I do go THF, it's for TH usually.
Otherwise, SE isn't giving THF anything to make me want to stray from DNC more than I have to.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Morning! Sorry to make you all wait at the edges of your seats for what has been posted about Bully. Hope you all had a good labor day weekend.

Last week we added an effect to Bully that would make it easier to increase the effect of Treasure Hunter.

Based on feedback we received about this, we decided to go a different route and add an effect we felt would make you all a bit happier.

The changes to the effects are described below:

•Bully (THF lvl.93 Recast time: 3 minutes Effect Duration: 30 seconds)
Intimidates target
While under its effect: Possible to use Sneak Attack when not behind an enemy.

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Loveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee this :D!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Kari

The other part of me is ugh because of the recast.

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Its 3 bloody minutes....

Finally something useful :D

For too long Thief has been getting poor updates, seems like the devs are finally beginning to understand how people play Thief now.

Happy days!

Congrats THF :D

I don't mind the recast at all. 2 Min would be pretty powerful, every other SA being able to land even while solo. Anything less than that and you could just make SA itself not require being behind the enemy. I am pretty happy with 3 min.

I wouldn't be against sweetening the pot a bit, maybe something like while bully is in effect THF's critical attack bonus gets a boost or even critical hit rate?

I could think of a lot of things I would add to it but I don't think we should push our luck lol. Now that bully isn't garbage we should go back to complaining about the JAs that still are!

I am happy they listened to us on this one finally. It took a lot of QQing and screaming to get it but finally we got something far more useful than we what was originally intended, especially after the initial change to extra TH proc they wanted to give us. This now makes it more useful for solo/small groups as well as party play.

The 3 min recast still feels a little long for only a 30 sec duration, otherwise the ability to intimidate and SA from any able is pretty nice. I wonder if we will get gear that increases the duration/effect or recast of it?

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Originally Posted by Reaux

I am happy they listened to us on this one finally. It took a lot of QQing and screaming to get it but finally we got something far more useful than we what was originally intended, especially after the initial change to extra TH proc they wanted to give us. This now makes it more useful for solo/small groups as well as party play.

The 3 min recast still feels a little long for only a 30 sec duration, otherwise the ability to intimidate and SA from any able is pretty nice. I wonder if we will get gear that increases the duration/effect or recast of it?

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I'm happy as hell too, but honestly I wouldn't care if it was 10 second duration if they lowered the recast (prays for merits).

I'd be pretty happy with 1/3 SAs being from any angle. That is a very significant boost to your damage. I'd even go as far as saying being able to make it 2min so you could do every other SA would actually be a bit overpowered and undermine the whole point of Sneak Attack. A 3rd of your SAs dont have to be from behind. That is powerful.

This is awesome, but the pessimist in me can't help but think that too many people are loving this, so it's bound to be nerfed. 10 min recast sounds about what SE feel we actually deserve.

I think while soloing NMs, I'll be turning my back for 30 secs every 3 mins to make sure I get 2 SAs in to boost up the TH (because I can). Then there's always hide for every other non-bully'd SA if fighting a sight only NM XD 5/6 SAs when soloing /drool^^

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Originally Posted by noodles355

I'd be pretty happy with 1/3 SAs being from any angle. That is a very significant boost to your damage. I'd even go as far as saying being able to make it 2min so you could do every other SA would actually be a bit overpowered and undermine the whole point of Sneak Attack. A 3rd of your SAs dont have to be from behind. That is powerful.

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Can be up to 66% of your SAs even, even with constantly SAing, depending on the situation. Although harder to do when soloing, that is true.

Edit:

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Originally Posted by Babekeke

This is awesome, but the pessimist in me can't help but think that too many people are loving this, so it's bound to be nerfed. 10 min recast sounds about what SE feel we actually deserve.

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It's kinda funny, but the reason so many people like it is not because it is actually an amazing ability, but because our standards have been so low for such a long time that we take anything we can get and are happy about it.

I dunno Babek, Something tells me they'll do Bully right this time, and keep it at 3 minute timer/30sec Duration. On a side note, anyone wanna brainstorm our level 99 Merit choices?

Conspirator Effect - Increases Accuracy by 2, and Subtle Blow by 2 (useless)
Despoil Effect Duration - Increases Despoil debuff duration by 3 seconds (useless)
Bully - Increases Intimidation rate by 2 (Useless)

Thats the pessimist in me. The positive in me hopes for

Tier 1
Conspirator Duration: Increases Duration by 10s
Bully Recast: Reduces Recast by 5s
Collaborator Recast: - Reduces Recast by 3s
Accomplice Recast - Reduces Recast by 15s
Quadruple Attack - Increases Quadruple Attack by 1

Tier 2
Stealth(JT) - Increases Sneak Attack potency by 2% per level, and adds a 3% Attack boost per level.
Framework(JT) -Increases Trick Attack potency by 2% per level, and adds a 3% Attack Boost per level.
Plunder(JT) - Adds a Stun Effect to Mug. Additional Merits reduce Recast by 2:30
Full Assault(JA) - Next Weaponskill gain the ability to ignore defense.* Additional Merits increase amount ignored by 5%.

*Full assault: Recast 5min - Amount ignored base = 30%. Capped merits = 50%

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

I dunno Babek, Something tells me they'll do Bully right this time, and keep it at 3 minute timer/30sec Duration. On a side note, anyone wanna brainstorm our level 99 Merit choices?

Conspirator Effect - Increases Accuracy by 2, and Subtle Blow by 2 (useless)
Despoil Effect Duration - Increases Despoil debuff duration by 3 seconds (useless)
Bully - Increases Intimidation rate by 2 (Useless)

Thats the pessimist in me. The positive in me hopes for

Tier 1
Conspirator Duration: Increases Duration by 10s
Bully Recast: Reduces Recast by 5s
Collaborator Recast: - Reduces Recast by 3s
Accomplice Recast - Reduces Recast by 15s
Quadruple Attack - Increases Quadruple Attack by 1

Tier 2
Stealth(JT) - Increases Sneak Attack potency by 2% per level, and adds a 3% Attack boost per level.
Framework(JT) -Increases Trick Attack potency by 2% per level, and adds a 3% Attack Boost per level.
Plunder(JT) - Adds a Stun Effect to Mug. Additional Merits reduce Recast by 2:30
Full Assault(JA) - Next Weaponskill gain the ability to ignore defense.* Additional Merits increase amount ignored by 5%.

*Full assault: Recast 5min - Amount ignored base = 30%. Capped merits = 50%

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I like the positive merits better. Approved.

I guess this is our answer as to whether or not they are ever going to add a trait or change Sneak Attack to line of sight instead of directly behind.

for general damage purposes I definitely wouldn't turn for 30secs to get 2 SAs off, but for TH upgrades that is pretty awesome when tankking.

You should just let us use sneak attack from any angle.

Some reasons i think this is a kinda lousy dps increase:

-First, SA/TA contribution to our damage is very low inside abyssea. We can use this JA at best at 66% of SAs (1 precharge + 2). This is only on the start of a big fight or after long waits. 33% performance is more of a rule. So, what's already a small boost gets even smaller.

-If we are not inside abyssea, then we are probably not tanking, which means we can use sa/ta anyways (well, truth be told, we can sa/ta inside or outside, tanking or not, so long there are other melees).

-Outside abyssea sa/ta is meaningful. This JA even at 66% performance is very nice, and it's a great epeen tool to start a fight(if the mob lives the first saws round that is). I don't see many situations where we want to kill as fast as possible anymore tho. We want procs and procs and procs, be it TH or !!. A single SARudra can remove 50% HP or more of a VT demon on neo dyna, this can be bad if we still don't have a !! up.

Anyways, a positive boost is positive, and this sure is groundbreaking for us.

One of the better things i can think of with Voidwatch, Is this also opens up the possibility to SATA a tank. SATA > Rudra's every 3 minutes or so...

That, and if its a Debuff on the Enemy... SAM/THF SA > WS with Overwhelm bonus in Voidwatch. Sexy. It has party oriented buffs too.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

On a side note, anyone wanna brainstorm our level 99 Merit choices?

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Conspirator Recast - Lowers the recast of Conspirator by 10 seconds.
Despoil Potency - Increases the potency of Despoil effects by 2.
Bully Potency - Increases the intimidation effect of Bully by 2.
Treasure Hunter Increase Rate - Increases the frequency at which Treasure Hunter increases by 1%.
Resist Gravity Potency- You thought it couldn't get any worse, but we made it worse just for you.

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Originally Posted by SpankWustler

Conspirator Recast - Lowers the recast of Conspirator by 10 seconds.
Despoil Potency - Increases the potency of Despoil effects by 2.
Bully Potency - Increases the intimidation effect of Bully by 2.
Treasure Hunter Increase Rate - Increases the frequency at which Treasure Hunter increases by 1%.
Resist Gravity Potency- You thought it couldn't get any worse, but we made it worse just for you.

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My original "negative" idea had Despoil Potency.

You know, its sad as we joke, These fake merits are probably the shit we'll get.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

One of the better things i can think of with Voidwatch, Is this also opens up the possibility to SATA a tank. SATA > Rudra's every 3 minutes or so...

That, and if its a Debuff on the Enemy... SAM/THF SA > WS with Overwhelm bonus in Voidwatch. Sexy. It has party oriented buffs too.

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If it is a debuff on the enemy and works like that, it also means a different thief's bully could let for example a thief that tanks to perform yet another SA WS right in someones face, or for two thieves to SATA a tank two times each per 3 minutes, 4 if well timed. That's a potential 8 SATAs on a tank in 3 minutes, with just two thieves!

Now if hate just didn't cap so easily...

-edit-
Re-reading Camate's description of it though, it looks like it is a self-buff, rather than a mob debuff. I hope it ends up being a mob debuff, that would benefit thieves, and other players, a lot more.

-edit, again-
Actually I hope the name is changed. The effect seems good now, but I never really thought the name was a good choice. I'm not a native english speaker so I'll let someone else come up with a cool sounding and fancy name. Damned be my limited vocabulary.

i think its a start worth having anyhow. thanks SE for once

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Originally Posted by SpankWustler

Conspirator Recast - Lowers the recast of Conspirator by 10 seconds.
Despoil Potency - Increases the potency of Despoil effects by 2.
Bully Potency - Increases the intimidation effect of Bully by 2.
Treasure Hunter Increase Rate - Increases the frequency at which Treasure Hunter increases by 1%.
Resist Gravity Potency- You thought it couldn't get any worse, but we made it worse just for you.

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And when the Devs skim through the posts looking for ideas for our merits, they just see these and then the sacrasm is lost in translation...

"And people kept quoting them, so they must have liked them!"

:D

I'd like to merit steal down to 2 minutes, then aura steal would be somewhat useful!

On a more serious note, I'd also like to be able to merit down accomplice and collaborator, to like idk, 2 minutes for accomplice, 30 seconds for collaborator? It is a really nice "SAVE THE MAGE" button when I'm duoing with like a blm or something, and it would be nice if it was usable more often.

Given the new effect it's been given i think a more suited name for it would be Bravado.

bra·va·do/brəˈvädō/
Noun: A bold manner or a show of boldness intended to impress or intimidate.

Since it's quite a bold display to be able to SA a mob in it's face

the japanese name translates to deceive on google. I suppose that's fitting..

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Originally Posted by Laphine

the japanese name translates to deceive on google. I suppose that's fitting..

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^
or that lol

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Originally Posted by Camate

Morning! Sorry to make you all wait at the edges of your seats for what has been posted about Bully. Hope you all had a good labor day weekend.

Last week we added an effect to Bully that would make it easier to increase the effect of Treasure Hunter.

Based on feedback we received about this, we decided to go a different route and add an effect we felt would make you all a bit happier.

The changes to the effects are described below:

•Bully (THF lvl.93 Recast time: 3 minutes Effect Duration: 30 seconds)
Intimidates target
While under its effect: Possible to use Sneak Attack when not behind an enemy.

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This ability is really nice and actually useful, TY! Love the change.

It still needs some minor tweaking though imo, a 30 second duration and 3 minute cooldown is far too long for something like that.

It's at worst 1/3 of your Sneak Attacks. That's not far too long a cooldown. Seriously, some people wont be happy until they make SA and TA just force critical with their DEX and AGI boosts from any position will they?

I would be pretty happy if they modified Trick Attack to work from anywhere (not behind another person) via bully or some other method and added a trait

...or reversed the nerf that restricted the angle on Sneak Attack to "Directly Behind."

I mean, why can't I "Sneak Attack" a monster if he is not looking at me and focusing on someone else (or if I'm behind a party member and the monster can't see me)?

seriously...shut up. Bully is useful now, leave it at that instead of asking for more, which YOU KNOW SE will perceive as "they dont like this either, k lets change it to something else".

just, shut up. In fact, lock the thread OP if you can.

well considering up until now they were able to progressively increase the utility on bully, i wouldn't cry if they dumped this new concept completely to give us something even better.

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Originally Posted by Nynja

seriously...shut up. Bully is useful now, leave it at that instead of asking for more, which YOU KNOW SE will perceive as "they dont like this either, k lets change it to something else".

just, shut up. In fact, lock the thread OP if you can.

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lol. I don't think you have anything to worry about. The vast majority og THFs have had nothing but positive things to say about this latest change.

...now if only they'd update the test server so I can try it out....

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Originally Posted by Nebo

lol. I don't think you have anything to worry about. The vast majority og THFs have had nothing but positive things to say about this latest change.

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Yeah, it's only the retards who don't realise that 1/3 of your sneak attacks is a big deal. Problem is SE seems to listen to retards more than good players. This can be seen through rdm melee.

"waahhhh this new change is still garbage, its only for 30 seconds on a 3 minute recast...THREE MINUTES is waaaay too long wtf"...
seriously

I would totally lock it if I could =P