WAR Job Ability 90+: "Weapon Mastery"

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Originally Posted by Superchicken

...your asking for too much with this imo. WARs are fine how they are

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This may very well be true, but let's be honest here. We can go further, MUCH FURTHER. :) In terms of raw damage, yes, Raging Rush and Ukko's Fury is pretty hard to beat, but I wouldn't mind using Dancing Edge on WAR if I have the skill level for it. Can't really call us "Weapons Specialists" if we cannot have access to nearly all weapon skills. :)

KB1

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Originally Posted by Kuwabaraone

This may very well be true, but let's be honest here. We can go further, MUCH FURTHER. :) In terms of raw damage, yes, Raging Rush and Ukko's Fury is pretty hard to beat, but I wouldn't mind using Dancing Edge on WAR if I have the skill level for it. Can't really call us "Weapons Specialists" if we cannot have access to nearly all weapon skills. :)

KB1

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The problem is you're thinking about what would be cool without accepting the consequences. If you actually stopped and looked at how it would adversely affect other jobs then you would see it's not a good idea.

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Originally Posted by Kuwabaraone

This may very well be true, but let's be honest here. We can go further, MUCH FURTHER. :) In terms of raw damage, yes, Raging Rush and Ukko's Fury is pretty hard to beat, but I wouldn't mind using Dancing Edge on WAR if I have the skill level for it. Can't really call us "Weapons Specialists" if we cannot have access to nearly all weapon skills. :)

KB1

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WAR's don't NEED to go much further, they're great as they are and that's partly why other jobs have more attention on them with updates. Dancing Edge on WAR? Really? I agree with noodles here, its a cool idea but only from WAR's perspective, and would be a slap in the face for other jobs. We already have a lot of proc WS to make us incredibly versatile but covering all bases is just a little too much for just one job.

I got through the first few pages of replies. In short, I don't like the idea. It really wouldn't make much sense that the WAR would suddenly be able to use weaponskills, then abruptly not be able to. It's not like they're pulling out a book mid-battle (*cough*SCH*cough*), or suddenly shifting their feet to gain access to an array of attacks they have been lacking, then suddenly resifting to lose these attacks. Yes it's a fantasy game that has dragons, giant plant creatures, and hairy infant player characters, but from a battle standpoint, it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

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Originally Posted by Kuwabaraone

This may very well be true, but let's be honest here. We can go further, MUCH FURTHER. :) In terms of raw damage, yes, Raging Rush and Ukko's Fury is pretty hard to beat, but I wouldn't mind using Dancing Edge on WAR if I have the skill level for it. Can't really call us "Weapons Specialists" if we cannot have access to nearly all weapon skills. :)

KB1

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war is a weapon specialist in the terms that they can use more weapons and have higher skill rating in more weapons than any other job. You don't need every WS to be a specialist with that weapon. You specialize in the use of many weapons not the use of many WS's even though you do that too but it doesn't need to be every weapon skill, thats what makes other jobs unique. You want Dancing Edge you level THF or DNC, you want asuran fists you level monk, etc. Jobs need somekind of uniqueness amongst them one job cant have it all.

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Originally Posted by noodles355

By this comment it's obvious that you believe it's either black or white: it's balanced or it's unbalanced. It can't be slightly one or the other. Let me show you how you are wrong: Inside abyssea with equal gear and ideal atmas, Drg does more damage than Drk. This is a simple fact due to the lack of good drk crit WS and due to Drakesbane being an insane weponskill. They7re both DDs. DD is their primary function. But Drg does more damage. They both have other functions too but in their main function (DDing) Drk is worse. That's unbalanced. If it was balanced they would have equal DD Output. So now they're already unbalanced, I think it's fine to give drg 200DMG 10Dly lance and a 5.0ftp 100%STR WSC 8 hit critical weaponskill. They're already unbalanced so nothing changes.
Oh wait it does because where it was slightly unbalanced before it is now completely rediculously unbalanced. Do you understand yet? It doesn't go from "unbalanced" to "unbalanced". It goes from "unbalanced" to "even more unbalanced".It's not silly. Or have you forgotten the times in ToAU where all people wanted were Nin War Sam Rdm Brd? Remember those days? Yeah, if you wren't one of those jobs then you could still get invites to merit parties, but they were much rarer and given the choice most players would take one of those above jobs. IT would be exactly the same thing here. Yeah, you dont have to take a War but war would be the most preferred job and given the choice its the one people would always take,
I really don:t know if I can spell out those points any simpler for you. You have yet to provide a counter-argment with points that outweigh the problems listed by me and the other posters in this thread.
You are pig-headed and not open to criticism. You cant see the forest for the trees.

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I'll be quick on this one. Who in the world taught you how to form an argument??!! These points are horrible man. At this point I'm concerned greatly that I'm having an argument with a 12 year old due to the fact you still can't have a discussion without the kiddy name calling lol, but I'll wrap this up quickly.
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The point I'm trying to help you understand is that YES, it absolutely can be black or white in terms of trying to whine about a misguided sense of achieving "some" balance in a zone that PROMOTES imbalance. It's very black and white in fact. It IS either a balanced area or it's NOT. If it's in fact not a balanced area, then just toss your argument out the window man, it's a wasted effort. Again, and again, I've explained that Abyssea was in no way designed to be the least bit a balanced area, so you can't put a gauge on "HOW IMBALANCED" the zone is. You're example just describes what kind of dmg Emp. weapons pull off inside Abyssea zones which is nearly impossible to reach dmg without one.
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If you somehow missed the 1st part of my original post that gives valid reasons for this JA being introduce due some blinding brain blockage in your eyes, I can understand. Like I said before though, there is no actual understanding that you're trying to reach, so me posting every screenshot in the world wouldn't help in the slightest to curb your unwillingness to reach a common understanding on this topic. I posted a friggin super clear short story recently addressing everything you
talked about, so I'm really sure there's no simpler way that I can explain further for ya. Now watch this... it was nice conversing with ya man, and I'm sorry I couldn't help ya reach some understanding of my views. End. That's how grown ups end conversations.

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Or have you forgotten the times in ToAU where all people wanted were Nin War Sam Rdm Brd? Remember those days? Yeah, if you wren't one of those jobs then you could still get invites to merit parties, but they were much rarer and given the choice most players would take one of those above jobs.

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what kind merit parties were you in. Nin no thanks. why would you want a nin in a ToAU bird merit pt? give me a cor over the nin any day and if i cant get a cor i'd take double brd over nin still. NIN would be at the bottom of the barrel for a bird merit pt. I'll go even further and not take the sam in my pt either. Give me a RDM,Cor,BRD, (another COR or BRD), WAR, and KC ranger at lvl 75 and i'll show you a ToAU bird merit. Nin by no means should be a standard sought after job for a ToAU bird merit pt back in those times

I don't get it................

Was there a point in reading past the first page? To me personally, this idea sounds pointless.
It could only help in red/blu procs, which is not a good enough reason.

Could someone sum up as to why this would be of any use?

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Originally Posted by Nepharite

Was there a point in reading past the first page? To me personally, this idea sounds pointless.
It could only help in red/blu procs, which is not a good enough reason.
Could someone sum up as to why this would be of any use?

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lol ^^ Well, the main "Point" and justification for proposing this JA would be to make the next natural step in WARs evolution as a weapon specialist with high skill ratings in just about every weapon in the game. Further throughout the post, I tried to bring to light that a pro WAR could already go neck and neck with most other jobs with the limited Weapon skills they already possess, and could shine even further with access to a few more ws's at their disposal. Yeah, Abyssea would benefit from the increased number ws's in regards to WAR triggering Red and Blue, but this was not the reason I came up with this proposed JA at all. Of course, unfortunately, most folks throughout the thread can't seem to get past this part lol.
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For anyone suggesting this JA would be unfair or useless, just take a few minutes to look at what WAR already is and compare their weapon access and skill lvls to EVERY other job. I'm not suggesting anything that wouldn't make sense for WAR. SE has laid the grounds for WARs to be the best at every weapon (except GK and Katana and perhaps H2H) by lvl 99, so I'm just proposing a JA that makes that fact make full sense all around. For all those saying that it would rob the uniqueness from other jobs for WAR to gain even more access to other ws's, I say do your research right quick. WAR has access to all standard club ws plus Black Halo (the quested ws) except Hexa Strike at the moment (not including Relic,Mythic, and Emp. ws of course), but that doesn't rob one bit of uniqueness from a WHM in the slightest and it wouldn't change if WAR got Hexa Strike tomorrow. The same goes for sword, but again people can't seem to swallow the reality of a WAR having the ability to trigger nearly all Red and Blue triggers /stagger. I say screw the Abyssea part of this argument entirely, and just focus on what WARs always have been, professional weapon masters (or at least close to being such due to lack of access to the proper ws's). WARs were built this way far before Abyssea so my stance is based on 9 more levels of growth in what makes a WAR so unique in the 1st place.
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That kinda sums it up :) I suppose if I posted some evidence of the dmg numbers a WAR can do currently with the limited weaponskills we wield, it could possibly help folks understand why WARs should get further access to more dmg'ing ws's within each of the weapon classes they have access to. But it would be a long shot, and folks would probably still find a way to discredit the accomplishment and probably be upset that I was able to out dmg another's main job using their A+ weapon lol ><.