Pld Emnity/hate distribution chages?

As Rambus and the person he quoted mentioned, PLDs been dieing. Abyssea was just the last nail in the coffin.

What really kept PLD alive was the fact that PLD has survivability on its side. Even subbing NIN, PLD had better survivability than most DD jobs. The reason abyssea 'killed' PLD is that with abyssea every job gained huge survivability bonuses. While PLD also gained these it lost some as well. Specifically the ability to cure itself. Yes, it still has cures but a 400HP cure when you have 4000 HP doesn't cut it.

So what can we give to help it stand out above the DD tanks.

1st) Resistance to Doom and Death. And not a poor job ability like Fealty or gimpy resistances like Resist Sleep but actual solid resistances to the two effects.

The only thing that can really kill someone in abyssea are these two things. Anything else a white mage can easily keep up with cures on the main tank.

The next three all have to do with enmity

2nd) Give more and better hate abilities/spells.

3rd) Immunity or high resistance to hate resets/less hate loss in general.

4th) Higher enmity cap for PLD.

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Originally Posted by Zetonegi

1st) Resistance to Doom and Death. And not a poor job ability like Fealty or gimpy resistances like Resist Sleep but actual solid resistances to the two effects.

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Nice one, never thought of that, it's a fact that when SE want us to struggle they give NM's doom or death, but if cursna could remove doom 100% of the times it wouldn't be an issue. (already saw 22 attempts holy water + cursna failled)

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Pretty much this, PLD is in a tight spot. really not fair for PLD in the game atm. looking say at 2005 then now PLD got almost nothing compared to what melee got in damage buffs.

Unless a PLD has Empyrean sword or both sword and sheild, PLD does not belong in abyssea.

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Rambus, we r on the same server. true i have an aegis, but not an emp or exc..yet. that shield. no one gives credit for. like i said b4. its funny to watch DD take 3k to thunder5 and what not. yet when i sit there laugh coz im getting 600-700. rambus ur more then welcome to come in to our even and watch and see how well we use pld and why its used so well. we are a small shell since iwe got all of the drama people out. we might have 2 full pts plus 2 if we r lucky for all events. we get it done. we get it done right.

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Either give PLD some form of -damage taken ability, or simply adjust the way defense works against damage. Right now, stacking defense has very limited utility after a certain level, when you get right down to it. Adjust it so that having a substantial defense stat (and probably giving PLD more Def Bonus traits) makes it so that the new monsters of endgame don't utterly destroy you, and you'd give PLD a reason to be played again.

It's possible, but you'd have to do some fairly serious work to make it worth taking PLD on a regular basis again unless you give PLD the ability to gain and hold hate in excess of any other job in the game.

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and to raesvelg. pld does not need damage down abalities. inside abyssea or not. the +2 is all win anywhere. yes, its a small amount that u get back. but combine that with shield and sanguin blade there isnt much room for a whm to to watch u much. granted i do not know what its like against HNM's for i have never fought one. never joined a shell. but during dyna and abyssea with my pld, whms dont have to watch me much. now of course there are those times where everyone gets into a bind, but most of the time plds r fine on thier own now. hate really needs to be adjusted. its horrible when you can voke flash shield bash for 5 mins and a sam comes in and gekkos and its all over for hate. its abvious the japs love sam. who doesnt. everyone who is posting for the pld thread is bringing up really good points for it and against it. personally. pld will never die. in a few hrs from this post i will be on VNM's for almace so maybe another month or so and i can come back and comment if its worth it or not. to get almace. i have not been reading those threads much but i hear u can reach 4k damage. we will see. maybe thats all the hate pld will need right there. but yet the trials are so tedious on all the weapons. but this isnt a kids game so things need to be tedious and hard.

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Originally Posted by Wade

I haven't played PLD in Aby, haven't really done much of anything in aby for that matter, but I have a question. Is a PLD using a Greatsword not useful in Aby? It would do more damage plus can act as a support healer up front. Just a thought.

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oa4 GS spaming herculan slash with beyond SB GC might be the higher dmg combo,

I've often thought that one thing that would work really well would be to raise PLD's VE cap. I personally think that giving PLD a trait that raised the VE cap by 500 for every 15 levels would work out nicely. At 90, you'd have a cap of 13000 VE. This would allow a PLD to have a higher threshold then everyone else and they'd have to work at that threshold. The benefit to this? DD's could go apeshit with their attacks without worrying about pulling hate.

To counter the obvious benefits of PLD's having a higher VE threshold (and the reason I targeted VE and not CE), the trait could also tier the VE reduction. When a PLD is in the first tier, they'd lose an additional 25 VE (85 total). In the second tier (10500-11000), they would lose an additional 25 (so 110 total). And so on. Thus, while they could maintain more VE then others, they'd still rely on CE as the core with VE as the spikes, allowing a PLD who was working hard at it to maintain hate.

You'd still be able to use a MNK and cure bomb. You could still evasion tank on THF or NIN. But, when you want the mob planted on someone, you could use a PLD and then let everyone go all out.

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Originally Posted by Lutschfactor

Rambus, we r on the same server. true i have an aegis, but not an emp or exc..yet. that shield. no one gives credit for. like i said b4. its funny to watch DD take 3k to thunder5 and what not. yet when i sit there laugh coz im getting 600-700.

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That sounds like crappy dds, that need to get an mdt set.

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Originally Posted by Dracoth

I've often thought that one thing that would work really well would be to raise PLD's VE cap. I personally think that giving PLD a trait that raised the VE cap by 500 for every 15 levels would work out nicely. At 90, you'd have a cap of 13000 VE. This would allow a PLD to have a higher threshold then everyone else and they'd have to work at that threshold. The benefit to this? DD's could go apeshit with their attacks without worrying about pulling hate.

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Don't you think giving the ability to "lock" ennemy on Paladin is a little bit exploitable and will lead to ungly way of killing enemies ??? A quick idea that come to my mind is a Paladin wich all abilities are ready that could easily stay over 10001 VE/CE for around 1 minutes giving the oportunities for 3 full party of mage to nuke until no MP left then sit down as they know their VE will get down and Paladin will keep it "locked" on him.

This sounds like a cheat for me. One and only one Paladin should not be able to force enemies to ignore 3 parties of powerfull damage dealer...

CE isn't locked or capped. It's only built off VE. If VE decays at a fast enough rate, it won't matter. The problem is, if PLD doesn't have SOME advantage in the cap, then it's only ever going to get traded around. So, yes, I think the PLD should have some ability to break the cap. It won't stay at 10001, anyway, since VE always decays and taking damage reduces CE. With 3000 extra VE, sure, it'd keep it locked on PLD all the time. Maybe a compromise can be reached: Lower the cap on CE and raise the cap on VE for PLD. Make it so that PLD can still exceed the cap of everyone else, but make it more finicky. People would still have to watch the hate line, but PLD could essentially lock it for brief periods of time.

Another idea: make it so that when PLD breaks the VE cap, they can't gain more VE until it drops below the cap. Thus, while they can lock it, they can't maintain the lock.

Or, put an ability (5 minute timer, 30 second duration) that lets them break the cap during the duration.

As it stands, there's absolutely no reason for anyone to bring a PLD other than the fact that someone wants to come as a PLD. My BLU tanks better than my PLD. And part of that is because PLD adds very little that isn't covered by other specialized jobs. What has PLD done well? Tanked, especially effective if using DD gear, with the ability to heal themselves. So, they add some mob control (which is ruined because of the hate cap), some healing (which they're lackluster at best at), and some DD (which they can easily be outclassed). We don't really need to add much in terms of healing. Adding DD won't fix any problems but would make us more desirable by others, but it doesn't fit in with what I feel is the theme of PLD in XI. Increasing healing is futile as RDM and SCH are being passed over - if they gave us enough to pass them, there would be riots. The only other alternative is to give us some incentive in the maintaining hate category.

rog..just dont talk

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Originally Posted by Lutschfactor

rog..just dont talk

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Sorry, but it's true. I've got -50% mdt on war, which is exactly what you have with your shiny aegis. It's really not hard to cap mdt.