Raise the Minimum Requirement for entering Abyssea to Lv70 or 75

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Originally Posted by Panthera

keymasters are not essential, not even to Abyssea.

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A key leech earns their spot by giving up their cruor for the exp they get through leeching and opening up chests.

Someone has to melee. Someone has to cure the melee. Someone has to open the chests. Each is important.

I would not want a bard who is singing, buffing, pulling, and back-up curing to be using their cruor as well. That's simply not fair to the bard.

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I have a really difficult time maintaining a conversation with someone when I cannot depend on a common understanding of language. Saying that cheating is breaking the rules is literal, cheating death is figurative. If one cannot grasp a literal meaning, the figurative meaning never stood a chance

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It's not as simple as it appears, because the implicit rule is that "you live, you die" - therefore by "cheating death" you are breaking an implicit rule. This example is misleading. You are literally cheating death - the system of dying - and so you are not extending the meaning logically, ie making it figurative.

What you are making is an assertion. You assert that gaining exp in any way but personally vanquishing a mob is "cheating" - literally against the game's rules. If you don't mean this literally, then you are using it figuratively, implying that you are depriving yourself of a positive experience, which is in itself an assertion. If you mean cheating literally, you are creating your own arbitrary definition. If you mean it figuratively, then you are being misleading with your language because cheating has connotations of legality and the breaking of a system of order.

This thread is cheating death.

What I've learned from this thread?

Joined a pt of 6 for Exp? Cheating
Soloing mobs for Exp? Cheating
Made a mule to hold gear? Cheating
Used the Wiki? Cheating
Asked someone for advice? Cheating
Went Afk? Cheating
Changed gear while using a JA? Cheating
Started playing FFXI? Cheating
Zoned? Cheating
Warped? Cheating
Blood warped? Botting
Died? Cheating

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Originally Posted by Panthera

Good point. And thanks for disagreeing, but not disagreeing and being disagreeable at the same time. Much obliged.

While going through this, there will be white space and lines. This will done to make stepping through the logic simpler and clearer.

Let's assume something like the opposite of if nobody keyed the sum total of the exp would be far less than if there is a keyer. "

Let's assume

no one fights

and

everyone is a keymaster.

This means that

no chests spawn

because

no one is fighting

because

everyone is a keymaster

therefore

no one gets exp

because

no one is fighting monsters

and

exp chests aren't spawning

because

no one is fighting monsters

because

everyone is a keymaster

therefore

fighters are essential

and

keymasters are beneficial

but

keymasters are not essential, not even to Abyssea.


This assumes there's a "one or the other" situation. Some jobs can fight, but not key at the same time. Some can key, but not fight. Some can key and fight, in the sense of buffing. ... Maybe a ranger with a fast X-bow could pull it off, DDing quickly as possible as often as possible, but still keying. Anyway.


If a Bard does it, they are making their party fight much faster, contributing to more overall damage. But they can get EXP chests at the same time too, making for even more exp yet. They are contributing to the battle, which is indirectly related to the essential part, but still related not the less, and still doing the bells and whistles part of abyssea.

You do not have to key chests. If everyone can gather quickly and efficiently, people can still kill things for a reasonable amount of time, you know, like 2 hours--as opposed to a 6 hour grind of capping and lights and then capping them for new people and on and on--and still get some exp. And yes, Abyssea is still a grind. It's just a longer grind at once, rather than smaller grinds over a longer period of time.

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you misspelled keywhore.

similarly, keywoman would have worked.

Can someone explain again why experience has to be tied to combat onry? Somehow I missed why experience can't be for the overall progression of your character (ie doing an OP on drg is your drg increasing his knowledge of the battlefield and how to defend it, etc. etc.)


Before there were MMOs there was table tops. I spend 4 hours one night with friends trying to find a cure for mummy rot. We found it, we got xp at the end of the night, never fought anything. Guess I cheated at D&D.

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Originally Posted by Romanova

Can someone explain again why experience has to be tied to combat onry? Somehow I missed why experience can't be for the overall progression of your character (ie doing an OP on drg is your drg increasing his knowledge of the battlefield and how to defend it, etc. etc.)


Before there were MMOs there was table tops. I spend 4 hours one night with friends trying to find a cure for mummy rot. We found it, we got xp at the end of the night, never fought anything. Guess I cheated at D&D.

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Cheater Cheater! I'm reporting you to the GM! =P lol

This is me when I first typed up this thread -> *Click*

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Originally Posted by Akujima

This is me when I first typed up this thread -> *Click*

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I think this Link you provided should be posted on Your PVP thread instead since You brought it up.

Personally tho, I think you might of been more like this when you made this thread:
http://www.n-sider.com/media/hearts18stoned.jpg

I would like to clarify my position.

If someone is close to their level and levels up with an exp scroll, technically that would be cheating, but not the end of the world.

If someone used exp scrolls to get an entire, smaller early level, that's not all that big of the deal. If someone played all but one level of 1-90, and know what they're doing, I scarcely have a problem with that.

It's when people who are in an area that's designed for 75+ are not getting an inconsequential amount of exp, not just one small level, but every single level from 30-90 that I wonder if they don't have to fight, why should anybody?

If someone goes afk for longer than X amount of time, people do complain. The amount of X is an arbitarary application of the what cheating is. SE can't fix that, but players can, and players do with a swift kick.

A rule must be absolute and clear--but one must be reasonble in its application. If a cop gives you a ticket for going 1 mile over the speed limit, the judge could just throw it out, because no one is perfect, and it's not a major violation. If someone skips a step in a staircase that's 100,000 steps long, and the goal is to get to the top stepping on each step as a rule, some judges might throw the entire race out because 1 step of 100,000 steps was missed. But in the context of FFXI, if someone skips 1 level of 90, that's not a big deal, as said. It's unreasonable to say well, if you skip 1, why not all of them? Because people aren't perfect, but just because a judge lets it slide when you're going 1 miles over the limit doesn't mean you shouldn't be fined for going over by 10. It is arbitrary, but it is also reasonable. The definition of cheating is absolutely in no way arbitrary; the application is, and one must be reasonable in those applications. Both being reasonable with when someone is cheating only a little, but also reasonable with when someone is cheating a lot.