World spawning HNM

says the person who thinks abyssea is hard, i will note this event.

when did i ever say abyssea was hard, look if youre going to "troll" me, you have to try harder than putting words in my mouth

abyssea is fun, i realize you dont like fun, but everyone else in this game does

Meh. You guys are all just saying the same thing and it really doesn't change anything. No one knows what the devs will do. I think this thread was intended as more of a question thread? I made one myself and it did NOT turn out like this. Why all the fighting?

Both sides have good and bad points. Natenn, I'm all for world rare mobs, but I think there would be serious rage if great gear went back to being exclusive to HNM. Idk about you, but I just don't wanna hear it. I am like you in a sense that I am sick to death of people who don't enjoy what I enjoy, complaining and whining to get their way. I honestly say, give them an alternate method of obtaining gear so everyone can enjoy the type of content they enjoy, without having it depend on luc. Claiming or camping NMs is luck. I love it just like you, it's a rush but it truly is unfair to people who cannot dedicate large amounts of time, if they simply are doing it for the gear and not the fun aspect.

I am asking SE to add more rare world spawn because it's simply a joy to me. I love competing, love the luck aspect and I like the trophy drops. They mean more to me than items that are easier to get because they have a specialness about them. What I absolutely don't want, if 5-6 shells or groups botting to claim mobs and it turning into massive rage. I loved the drama because it was entertaining but we can keep the entertaining value aspect of that part of the game without forcing others who DON'T enjoy it, to do it.


There are plenty of people who sincerely enjoy that content and they make up a large enough fraction to warrant it being looked into. By looking into, I mean by taking time to decide what is best for both sides. Arlan I'm sorry, but your views on the gamer are just that. What you view as wasting time, isn't wasting time. I've been respectful of other peoples opinions and I tend to not want to tell someone else what their idea of fun is. I am (or was) a gamer and I agree with some of what you said, but you are basically saying I enjoy time sinks, cheating or blocking people. I'm sorry I enjoy things you don't but the fact is, you aren't anymore worthy of content you enjoy than me. The line should be drawn when I can possible prevent you from making progress. I want SE to adds means for you to get shit done, while still offering me that type of content I enjoy and there is nothing wrong with that. You cannot have everything and neither can I. We both deserve a chance though.

Sureal, I'm not sure if this is surreal from Valefor but you know tony i assume. I liked Tony. He was nice to me and I'll admit I never played with him, He seemed like a good player and was well spoken in my conversation with him. Your opinions seem completely opposite of Natenn. Everyone is entitled to their own Goddang opinion.

I'm not a hater but can everyone please stop with the personal attacks? It's embarrassing and i doubt the devs will respond with this type of nonsense. This is natenns thread but if you are so dead set on asking the devs to not add more world spawns, add a thread requesting it. Trolling the thread, which is not even a request thread, but a question thread is annoying and I'm talking to everyone.


You're all turning this thread into mindless complaining and neither side is really wrong. It comes down to whats fair and unfair to everyone.

Ultimately, it boils down to the fact that Natenn would rather be doing other stuff while the game makes gil and gets gear for him. It's funny that he doesn't even classify abyssea as an event (it's easy); however, it requires you to actively play the game, whereas world spawns don't. And, I would have to say that the world spawns he wants back were easier, because they required less work.

You can defend yourself with "I play on PS2" all you want, but unless the rest of your LS members are Starcade clones it doesn't matter.

You can still make quite a bit of gil in Abyssea, but it requires that you actively play the game for the most part, which you're obviously against.

no, im not from valefor, im from bahamut where tony is originally from, and yes, tony talks a big game, and acts all nice, but the guy is a tool, raped his ls for all he could, took gear from other more deserving players, had damn near full koenig and valor gear before his pld was even past lvl 60, took adaberk for his bst over drks and wars, worked his entire ls for more than one relic for himself and none for anyone else

HNM were fun

For what 5 mins if you took it slow lol. So 5mins out of 3 hours was fun, wow you really enjoyed that.

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Originally Posted by Ravenmore

For what 5 mins if you took it slow lol. So 5mins out of 3 hours was fun, wow you really enjoyed that.

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Comments like these are kinda rude. Although Natenns comments on noobs and what should be considered the best and where should come from and how much effort one should put into it, are questionable. Comments like these are nothing short of one sided and small minded.

Just cause you don't enjoy certain things doesn't mean others don't, and like I told Arlan what you consider fun and entertaining might not be as entertaining to others.

Some of you need to get rid of your sense of entitlement. I really find it quite funny. Sure, game shouldn't revolve around luck tactics and it shouldnt encourage cheating, but some of come off nothing short of absent minded.

Your argument isn't really any better than Natenns. It's just the opposite of what he's asking.. Players thinking they are better than others and are more entitled to things to fit their way. Because someone enjoys things you don't, something must be wrong with them or the system. Then theres people who think they only deserve the best and the only way anyone should be rewarded with what they have, is to be like them. It's basically the same thought process from both sides.

Neither side is right. The only thing anyone is entitled to is their opinion and everyone should respect each others opinion. Does that mean one person isnt really ridiculous, rude or silly? Course not. But this is a community board and It really is laughable some of you start calling people like myself names and saying what I enjoy is stupid. I have every right to be irritated and tell said person to piss off.

If you don't like the content of the game. Freakin quit. This game has been around for 9+ years and only within the last year has game really changed. In my opinion, it was a good change because the game was too one sided but this is an opinion. It's only a fact in the sense that it was a better change for certain people. Some people who don't even enjoy hnm, hate the direction. Does that make them a xxxx? a yyyy? No, it's just a difference in taste.

Hows this! Let's see if everyone in this thread can agree to disagree. If someone has a concern or statement they'd like the make, THEY CAN MAKE A THREAD and speak directly to the devs.

I am someone who would like a dev to respond to natenns question and that doesn't make me anything but a concerned member of the board. If you've already stated your opinion, let's stop the personal attacks ok? Natenn I would suggest you start making good use of reporting people. This was a reasonable question many people would like answered, whether they like the content or not. I really wanna know what they plan to do in regards to world NMs.

To the rest of you, if you really feel like flaming natenn or world hnm, make a thread for it and all the people who support you can come in and like the post and guys can reach your target audience, which is the devolopers.

There are plenty of thread asking the devs about xx content and this isnt any different. It's just a controversial subject. I hope SE approaches it similar to the past NMs, while continuing to offer more casual friendly gaming for others. More than anything I'd like to know a simple answer about the future of the game. I've quit anyway and Don't have any plans to return atm. My opinion matters less I suppose.

You all have a wonderful evening :) ! Enjoy the game. It;'s what its there for. Complaining about the uncertain is kinda waste of energy. Besides, I highly doubt things will ever go back to the way they were.

also, just ask ksandra, natenn or leon, I'm not a bitch :P

I'm actually really sweet in game and on bg! Te hehe XD

I'm pretty sure that most people aren't against World Spawns being added, as long as the other content is available elsewhere, as it's been stated in numerous times already in the thread; however, depending on the difficulty of the other content it may make camping the World Spawns nothing more than a novelty; if you can get the gear from other events it'll ultimately be less valuable and Natenn won't be able to fund his relics.

It's a pretty delicate balance, but maybe they could come up with something that will work out and won't alienate the vast majority of the players.

Trophy items should be exactly that, trophy items. Stuff that looks good, unique, but average stats.

Hauteclaire and Seveneyes are good examples. Haute was pretty garbage, but it looked nice. Seveneyes has a unique model as well. The drop rate is atrocious though for whatever reason...

What nat is asking for is the greatest level of entitlement. I lost all respect for many people camping ground a long time ago. Many of these people are also the ones complaining about how the new dyna works, cause now they can't control other players. THAT is all it comes down too. Why then did people leave HNM LSs as soon as it was found you did't need them anymore people in HNM ls were not all your friend and most for out for them selfs. They would get everything the wanted and leave of if they were leaders get everything they wanted and break the shell. World spawns with high respawn timers breads this and if any one is too naive to see it well then the get what they get.

ToAU beastman king were never camp and kill once in a great moon for some one working on mystic, that some one might had to have merc. Jermy was never camped and had the same 24 hour repop, same goes for vetra. You know why these HNM were not camp they drop nothing that HNM leaders could use to control the minons with. This is why only a very small handful of people want 24 hour world spawn NMs back and why 99% of the player base is happy its gone. How many people had to buy items off HNM LSs that the LSs were maxed out on already.

The only thing people are upset with with the way kings work now is the low drop rate on HQ pop items and that the NQ lost thier BB items. If they add the BB items back to the NQ half the people complaining would be happy and the other half would have more chances of picking up a free HQ pop.

The devs need to see that only the very few surport this so they don't get it in thier heads that people really want this.

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Originally Posted by Ravenmore

What nat is asking for is the greatest level of entitlement. I lost all respect for many people camping ground a long time ago. Many of these people are also the ones complaining about how the new dyna works, cause now they can't control other players. THAT is all it comes down too. Why then did people leave HNM LSs as soon as it was found you did't need them anymore people in HNM ls were not all your friend and most for out for them selfs. They would get everything the wanted and leave of if they were leaders get everything they wanted and break the shell. World spawns with high respawn timers breads this and if any one is too naive to see it well then the get what they get.

ToAU beastman king were never camp and kill once in a great moon for some one working on mystic, that some one might had to have merc. Jermy was never camped and had the same 24 hour repop, same goes for vetra. You know why these HNM were not camp they drop nothing that HNM leaders could use to control the minons with. This is why only a very small handful of people want 24 hour world spawn NMs back and why 99% of the player base is happy its gone. How many people had to buy items off HNM LSs that the LSs were maxed out on already.

The only thing people are upset with with the way kings work now is the low drop rate on HQ pop items and that the NQ lost thier BB items. If they add the BB items back to the NQ half the people complaining would be happy and the other half would have more chances of picking up a free HQ pop.

The devs need to see that only the very few surport this so they don't get it in thier heads that people really want this.

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Where do you get the notion "very few support this"? The same 4-5 people replying? Why dont u try making a poll like the ones on the other community sites. Beause according to those (which are MORE open and post friendly than this forum) 1 in every 3-4 people do want some form of new world NM/HNM. Using this forum as a way to speak for the entire community is a flawed notion because quite a few people don't like the rules of these forums and don't post. I'd like to know where you get this evidence so VERY few support it? Besides posters in a thread, which make up no more like 7-10 different people at most?

Or are you just stating things without factual evidence? Heres a fact check for you. You don't speak for the community and if we are going to claim something, we should let the devs do the investigating. Saying very few like this comment is an overstatement.

As the two previously stated before you, people aren't against world spawns and items that dropped from like khim or cerbw were still heavily camped and fun. Those were trophy items and something like that is as far as it should go. They did this before with kings/einherjar, and everyone was happy to an extent. The game is easier now and you only need a part of 6-10 to ace chambers. It didnt stop people from doing kings or hnm at 85. That only stopped at 90.

Those NMs you sbrought up drop craft items for high demand HQ items so no they were not camped for fun. hydra was never camp since it drop nothing of any value. Why did we get pop kings, cause the player base kept asking for it. Thats the proof right there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ravenmore

For what 5 mins if you took it slow lol. So 5mins out of 3 hours was fun, wow you really enjoyed that.

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Ravenmore has an excellent point.

Also, like I said before:
Gamers don't like to waste time playing games.
Gamers like to put time to enjoy playing games.
Gamers want to progress in games they put their time/effort in.

Your not a gamer if you just want something to waste your time in.
Gamers want to game to have fun.
People have fun seeing progressions and having access to contents that are enjoyable.

I'm not telling you "What style" of game you have to like to be a gamer,
I'm not telling you "You must like this content in order to be a gamer" either,

I'm telling you why I disagree with the OP because I'm a gamer like majority of players who long on to play with their friends, and I want to game when I want to game. I don't wont a content that I am excluded in because I have to play on the game's schedule. I wana be able to play on my own schedule with my friends, and I know so many people do too that is why they dislike this useless thread and the OP who posted it.

Btw, You sound like your the nice guy but in reality, your just as deluded as the OP, Anewie.
This game is made for the majority, not for the minority.
Majority are gamers who want to play video games on their free time with friends, they don't want to play this game as another JOB or another Real life.

People play games to get their heads out of the Real world and just enjoy a form of entertainment with others.
Games are not made to be your 2nd Life, they are made for players to "PLAY" for "FUN".

If your not a gamer, go waste your time doing something else.

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Originally Posted by Ravenmore

Real gamers they dont see claiming a HNM as content. You may not had used a bot but thier most likly was one in your LS. Ground HNM ls was the biggest scam in the game next to dyna only LSs.If every single one of the people that enjoyed camping HNM quit the game we wouldn't loss anything of value.For every 1 player that like it there was 100 that wouldn't go near HNM.

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Finally. A statement I can completely agree with. Thank you Ravenmore. I like that I might now have a real chance to go play with Faf/Nidhogg/Behemoth/Turtle etc without having to sign over my real life to do so to some scambag HNMls.

Im asking for something that results in victory over competition, thats the thrill "my kind" of ppl are looking for. The only thing that provided that to date were HNM. Theres no glory to be found in XI atm, nothing is that hard to be proud about when you complete a goal with the exception of relics which is nowhere near what it use to mean. How easy it to obtain twilight gear/abyssea drops? An idiot could get them with little to no effort? Heck i solo 80 Briareus helms in under 2 weeks combined for Kanagi/Almace(got help last 20 to finish faster). Ppl defend abyssea for 2 main reason: 1. Its easy to exp & 2. little is required to reap the big rewards. Point out something in game thats actually difficult and has reward enough to go through the hassle of doing it.

Also Ram the 99%(which i doubt) player base is whats left, if HNM were around that 99% would go back to the original 50%ish or less. Like i said, servers were /shutdown due to lack of ppl.

Really the thrill of that. People love out claiming people so much thats why they mkade bots. People quit cause they got tired of sitting in a camp for 3 hours a day for a chance. X-play, game mags, game shop employees would bash FF11 for the very system you want back.So that right there kill off many player that might have given the game a try but seen they would make little progress. Out claiming is all you had the mobs were weak anyone that could listen and not get hate from behind them could kill them. Even the hard HNM no one did them since nothing drop of value. It still comes around to your mad that you can nolonger control people. Most HNM lses have died, not because people quit the game but they were sick of LSes ruling thier in game time and now they don't need them.

I'm not mad, i think you are with long drawn out posts putting me down. Wheres the Xplay thing at? On youtube? Not saying i don't believe you but i wanna see it.

Natenn, it's pretty clear from your posts that you don't care about the "thrill" of the claim either. You just want the game to go back where you could play the game for 10 minutes and make millions of gil for killing an easy mob.

You're right about one thing though. The world is full of lazy people; therefore, I'm sure quite a few people would return.

The last one I saw was ToAU bashed the hell out of the game, don't even think they bothered with WoTg. I not putting you down I making sure the devs see not everyone is into dranking the koolaid HNMLS leaders would have all the minons do.

Don't let shady ppl be leaders or be in charge of LS $ distribution then? I've had my share of leaders making off with LS banks of 200-300M in gil hopping servers and buying relics for themselfs, didn't happen again after the 2008 incident. Other then that we were all well compensated in gil ranging from 5M-20M a person. As for "lazy" ppl, lazy didn't cut it at SW/DI not on pandy or asura. Had to spam widescan and stay alert for 4hrs tops.

Love how no one could point out what "real" challenges are left. There isn't any.

HNMs aren't challenging, as people have pointed out continuously in this thread. Claiming isn't challenging either. Depending on the mechanics of the NM it's usually just dumb luck or whoever has the most people or the best bots.

You don't want a real challenge. You just want a convenient way to make gil.

Proof? where? you think i just wanna make gil? Maby i think you just want everything to be a ??? thats easy to kill, just saying. Stop bashing HNM, me and alot of other ppl enjoyed them. Just because you didn't don't make it right to kill them off.

They have even killed it off more with void watcher were leaders can't even control who gets drops and that is by far the best. The few people that did enjoy it had thier time in the sun oh for 7 years.

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Originally Posted by Ravenmore

They have even killed it off more with void watcher were leaders can't even control who gets drops and that is by far the best. The few people that did enjoy it had thier time in the sun oh for 7 years.

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Ya I agree. I'm really glad SE is giving us all a chance to be able to obtain our items based on how much work we put rather than how much time Leaders can manipulate from hard working players.

Good work SE!

Also, Natenn, the Proof your looking for is right under your nose,
Everyone who is against this sees it but you.
How can we prove something to someone who is so blind in every aspect people point out?

=) Can't wait for more exciting updates from SE now.

Kinda boring to me but i guess you guys don't like thrills, carry on!

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Originally Posted by Natenn

Kinda boring to me but i guess you guys don't like thrills, carry on!

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Kinda boring not being able to play and progress...

I like the thrill of being able to log on and kick some NMs ass and being able to progress with friends when I have the time.

Boring when a leader has to tell who gets what and you do events for nothing but someone else's gain.
Boring when you log on a game to do something, and people try to prevent you from being able to have access on doing contents you want with your friends online.
Boring when you log on to do an NM you need and want, but the NM is not available because you could not log on time on the game's schedule in order to participate.

FUN being able to play the game when you want.
FUN being able to progress as you put time on events you want.
FUN being able to have access on contents you wish to participate in.
FUN when you got friends to do things with.

Sorry, I'm just a gamer who loves gaming a lot. I can't help it.
But If you don't have fun in FFXi then consider quitting maybe?

I just don't support going back to the old roots of FFXI since it was boring to me not having contents and all.
Most of the contents I couldn't even participate in. But now it is a total different story. I'm glad I'm able to have fun and participate like anyone else can on events I want to do for stuff I need and want.

<3 SE <3

Outclaiming competition wasn't boring for me. If you claimed alot you would probably have a different opinion on the matter. Maby you should consider getting better at the game maby?

Boring is sitting in 1 zone for hours on end spamming/grinding KIs for emps.
Boring is watching an alliance in abyssea take 5x longer to kill stuff then you would.
Boring is those same ppl all wearing full teal/Aurore/Perle w/e.

Fun is doing something that you want to do.
Fun is winning at the game.
Fun is defeating the competition.

Im not quiting bc i know world spawns will be back eventually, maby not in the old sense but in some form they will be back. I can't wait!

I cannot believe that Square would be so stupid to add world spawn HNM of any kind again, they were the games biggest failure and the worst embarassment for the dev team. This includes all HNM, including sandworm and DI.

I can think of a handful of bot creators that made a living off the HNM scene and that was a slap in the face for Square. The devs openly said multiple times they just could not counter botters and in that situation you just do it a different way, which is what they did.

I know OP is just trolling and good luck to him, but if there is even the slightest thought they would repeat the same mistakes again the last faf/nin/kings update should put rest to that. If they saw any value in it they would of increased the level of the mobs and gone with that not make it a force pop system, making that bastion of oldschool FFXI force spawn shows the mindset better than any official replies you care to read.

The best you can hope for if you loved HNM is ones that respawn in 10-20 mins.

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Originally Posted by Natenn

Outclaiming competition wasn't boring for me. If you claimed alot you would probably have a different opinion on the matter. Maby you should consider getting better at the game maby?

Boring is sitting in 1 zone for hours on end spamming/grinding KIs for emps.
Boring is watching an alliance in abyssea take 5x longer to kill stuff then you would.
Boring is those same ppl all wearing full teal/Aurore/Perle w/e.

Fun is doing something that you want to do.
Fun is winning at the game.
Fun is defeating the competition.

Im not quiting bc i know world spawns will be back eventually, maby not in the old sense but in some form they will be back. I can't wait!

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Everything you list as boring could have been said before Abyssea ever reared it's head. Sitting in one zone for hours grinding sky. Sea. Dynamis. I can go on. Watching a low man group kill Tia or anything over you. Seeing everyone in the end game scene basically have the same gear and the difference today is casuals are thrown into the mix. And heaven forbid we have gear that matches for a change and a THF looks like a THF and a BST looks like a BST.

Now don't get me wrong. There's nothing like NM camping to get the blood pumping. But when it is tailored made to bot, it pretty much kills the point of doing it. I've gone up against bots in my time. It is 99% pointless to bother. And the occasional claim by you on DI or whatever does not magically mean you are a champion claimer over bots or that bots didn't matter. Bots aren't fool proof but they're pretty damn close. The fact is, HNM is a game of money, and once people crossed that line of botting, they could never go back, especially when it would just mean they lose claims to the other LSs and ultimately lose money. Money that funded their bleeping gimp relics that they cared so much about. People took it seriously enough to buy programs and characters to aid them in claiming. And these people were at the top of the food chain for many years until Abyssea showed up.

Facts are facts, man. Bots drove out the masses in the end game scene for years. Single LSs would brag day in and out about all the HNMs they botted and claimed for the month after the cat was let out of the bag. It was used as ammo for shouting matches. Your LS was not immune to it's wrath. Yet you claim that you were immune. That you did what no one else could do, fight bots and win, because of lol skills. You'll have us believe that your LS without the aid of computer technology ruled supreme in end game, and that your entire reasoning for wanting more of the old is for purely the thrill of claiming a HNM over another person(btw the thrill of it comes from the drops, and eventually the money but we'll pretend I didn't just say that to blow your cover) Okay. Right. Sure. Whatever. I suppose it's possible. It's certainly not impossible.

But seriously, just admit you want easy money again. Nothing wrong with that. People respect bluntness. They don't respect being told that they just suck at claiming against bots like it's rocket science or something to spam a macro at a HNM camp for a minute every 30 minutes for 3 hours, or to spam WS for SW/DI. The so called "fun" aspect you keep preaching about is getting paid big gils for HNM drops so you can buy your overpriced items that you'd never get by regular means. It's that simple. Just admit it and this debate will end, and whether people would admit it or not they will respect you for being straight up about this. We all know there is only one reason to continue camping HNM after you get what you want gear wise: money. It's damn fun when you can get expensive items easily by being paid countless millions of gil for 20 minutes of work a few times a day. And when SE took that away from your LS you lost however many members or whatever the deal is and I'm quite certain most of them would come back if they could make easy millions again, NOT because they get some thrill of claiming a virtual monster over other people. The thrill is great but it will never be great enough to dictate people quitting the game. Ever. End game is business, period. SE took that away and lots of hardcore players quit over it.

Why did you stop camping old content after Abyssea? Ah yeah that's right, the money was no longer there. So long thrills! I hope you burn in HELL. I rest my case. And I personally would support 24 hr HNM any day of the week... if it was FAIR. But it's not. So it's pointless except to give players a big payday so they don't have to slave away on lesser means to buy their crappy trophy relics. That's not reason enough to invest man hours into timed HNM imho. The concept was awesome. The players ruined it. SE moved on. Expect them to continue moving on.

I'm amazed how long this topic has carried on based one one person's refusal to remove their nostalgia goggles. The resounding opinion seems to be, "Thank god it's dead, let's burn the corpse and scatter the ashes to make absolutely sure."

Remember the days of the Bubonic Plague? Ah, you really felt alive when everyone was keeling over around you. And those cheery calls of, "Bring out your dead!", how I miss those!

The past is past, it sucked, and it's over. Stop wishing it back. Let's all move on.

No thanks, botters can go rot and cry about the death of their monopoly on this game.

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Originally Posted by Natenn

Outclaiming competition wasn't boring for me. If you claimed alot you would probably have a different opinion on the matter. Maby you should consider getting better at the game maby?

Boring is sitting in 1 zone for hours on end spamming/grinding KIs for emps.
Boring is watching an alliance in abyssea take 5x longer to kill stuff then you would.
Boring is those same ppl all wearing full teal/Aurore/Perle w/e.

Fun is doing something that you want to do.
Fun is winning at the game.
Fun is defeating the competition.

Im not quiting bc i know world spawns will be back eventually, maby not in the old sense but in some form they will be back. I can't wait!

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Your one messed up individual lol

So devs, when will there be new world spawn HNM?

They gave you the answer when they changed the kings to force pop.

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Originally Posted by Natenn

So devs, when will there be new world spawn HNM?

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If they add new world spawns with unique, nice looking but completely useless drops, would you camp it?

They nuke the thread you made over at ffxiah today?

appears so, bc ppl start crying.