Craft Skill Limitations

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Originally Posted by Avina

The issue really is that crafting is irrelevant since the way people experience now makes buying the early gear irrelevant. Until SE finds a way to bring exping back outside of Abyssea for lower levels in a way that doesn't infuriate those that seek Abyssea parties to leech, I don't think you will see a more populated Auction House.

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More specifically convince low level people actually play their jobs. You can enter at 30 but can't really do anything in an exp party except open boxes - the problem isn't WHERE they get their exp, its HOW. If those boxes for exp popped up in FoV zones and it were easier to build lower level parties people would.

Also, I'd say you were right about the timing of the increase to craft skill limits being perfect with those other adjustments as every one of those things occurring at once might create a little economic boom in the crafting industry that would be beneficial for everyone, as I said before. This next comment of mine may not be popular here, but sadly a high percentage of posters on the official forums aren't the ones to be influenced by as they would have this game in "easymode" and make everything obtainable without much effort at all (Essentially, this is abyssea; everything is too easy to get except *maybe* cards). That's not to say I don't enjoy abyssea, but you've done the casual community a favor with it and still they complain that it's too hard to get seals and things even though it's really not; it just takes a little effort and the rewards are well worth that effort being put forth. These same people are the ones now who are complaining about letting a second craft go to 100; these people who now make their gil off of crafting consumables that have in most cases over doubled in price because no one crafts and they think that if you let a second craft go to 100, it might impinge upon their profits. Realistically, the most used consumables are craftable as is with subcrafts leveled to 60; sure you can't HQ them at the rates of higher levels, but there's still profit in NQing them with the occasional HQ currently and even before when the market was stable. The purpose of allowing a second craft to go to 100 would be reigniting the interest in crafting that there was years ago which will hopefully re stabilize the market and make things better for the entire economy.

This decision SE made delayed many intermediate crafter's dreams. What I mean by this is that some players may have been low on gil and as a result decided to take up a easier craft like cooking to get a good healthy stack of gil going for themselves. However after a couple years of building gil through cooking, these crafters finally have enough to invest in more prestigious crafts like goldsmithing, blacksmithing, leathercraft etc. By allowing a second 100 lvl skill cap would've freed many players from there starter crafts but SE decision for the time being denied them this. Thus pigeon-holing crafters to remain with there starter crafts and force the more buying and usage of mules.

It would be lots of fun to have all crafts to 100 or even two. I just am not sure how much good it would do. If there are new recipes introduced that would be great for WW and Bonecrafting wonderful. Now if other recipes were introduced for WW and Smithing, Great! Except that now I can make any WW recipe and with those I would only be able to make some. Maybe it seems petty but truth is I leveled my WW to 100 with my subcrafts specifically so I could make any recipe in the WW list. It would anger me to not be able to continue to do that. We would be forced to chose WW+ one other craft. That means there are WW + 5 others I could not do.
Now from a consumer point of view consider this. If they cant find a crafter now, it would be 6 times harder to find the RIGHT WW in the future.

I apologize in advance if this has been said before in this thread... I don't have the time to read through all of it atm, so I'm just replying to Camate's post.

I am glad that improvements are being looked into in the gathering, and in crafting as a whole. In my opinion, the problem with crafting is two fold: base materials, and reward.

1. base materials for crafting: especially at higher levels, it becomes nigh impossible to gather with any sort of efficacy materials to level up. In every craft, it's easier to simply make the gil elsewhere, and then possibly blow it at the AH to get a few skill ups. Skill-ups are few and far between, but that wouldn't be an issue if I had a real chance to farm/gather ingredients. I used to be a prolific miner (i funded my blm's staffs that way back in the ye olde days), but if I went back to leveling goldsmithing seriously, I certainly wouldn't be trying to mine up gold/platinum ingots for skillups. This is not to say that it is impossible to get gold/platinum ingots through mining, but I will say this: If I went to, say, Sea-Serpent's Grotto as monk/thf and killed sahagin for nothing but gil drops, I would get more ingots by spending a few hours there and then buying them off AH, than I would mining any given area.
Crafting is a bit about the journey. It is cool to put the drops/gathered items to use by making something out of them. Buying stacks and stacks of stuff off the AH doesn't quite have that same allure... and simply isn't fun. If I'm looking at crafting as a simply monetary venue, and not anything that has any other value except for how much money I can make ...that brings me to point number 2.

2. reward.
No craft is worth much at 100 anymore.
Yeah, some HQs still sell very decently, and I am sure that people who are more committed than I can spend the time investing a lot of gil into a certain % of return based on HQ percentage. Okay. I am not hard core crafter, or player, of any sort. However.. It's a lot easier to make money in any number of ways.
Well, I'd venture to say that most people don't play for imaginary riches, so what other reward does crafting offer? What unique ability/aspect of game do I get as a lv 100 crafter?
None. Outside of a few furnishings, there is no reward for me hitting 100 in any craft. I've had friends who've put the time to level a craft, taking years to hit 100, only to see that there is very little they can do with it. Most good armor now is no longer crafted...and there is no real way to produce 'unique' armor in the game. I thought that the idea of coloring certain furnishings, or the evoliths idea, was gonna lead to a way for us to produce truly unique things, but that isn't going to happen.
Why not give us more control over the output of our crafting? Why not really let us decide what stats are going to go into it, what color it will be, what it will do? Why not give crafters -- especially those who hit 100 -- a bit of a boost or ability of some sort, something that's going to improve their gameplay overall -- a stat bonus, maybe? Would it really break the game at this point? What if cooks could make unique r/e aoe foods, that stacked with regular foods, that could buff their parties? What if goldsmiths had a gem-O-finder ability, a mining widescan of sorts?

If we choose to be crafters, why not let us be unique for that aspect? It's okay to have crafting be a difficult journey, but give us something to look forward to... something other than a furnishing and an apron, and a knowledge that 99% of the recipes of our given craft are useless, and the remaining 1% just don't add up to much more than a side-grade.

Having a ton of side-grades at 75 was much derided on the internets for a good reason, and it's not something I'd like to see at 99.... instead of giving us gear where we need to change pants every time we cast a different spell, why not allow us to combine some of that gear...but that's a separate rant, I suppose.

In short, crafting and gathering in XI have always been a less-fun part of the game, something that seemed tailormade for bots due to the high time-cost, and sheer un-funness of hitting 'craft' button millions of times to get to 100. Let's hope that changes!

First of all I want to say that even though I definitely disagree with the decision to postpone raising the crafting skill I do appreciate the effort being made on the community team and the devs to address this issue... but there are some points that I think really deserve to be addressed.

Here is how I see the current problem with crafting (aside from consumable crafts such as WW and Cooking, although those have taken a hit as well):

As said in my earlier post a huge problem with crafting jobs that specifically craft gear (armor, accessories, etc) now have enormous amounts of what basically amounts to as trash when you look at how the game is run. There use to be a time when being well geared at level 40 was actually important, people camped NMs for gear and bought high quality low level gear. Since so much of the player population has taken to trading keys to chests or even simply just idling in Abyssea, to the average player there really isn't a point to investing in lower level gear. If you can find one, tell me... and I don't Abyssea burn my jobs either and actually try to gear myself as best as I can at these lower levels but being honest to myself; I'm just making it hard for myself because I liked the old way. And it really fails to feel rewarding.

I know other crafters will turn to me and say that all the money from crafting came when you got to level 100 and were HQing... and its true, that's where the big money was at for sure. But crafters were still able to turn a profit or at least break even with staples such as the Eisen set for smithing or Seer's for clothcraft, etc, both which were low level synths that people used to buy. The point being there was still money to be made at these lower levels of crafting... but the way SE has set up the game now, very nearly all of the recipes for gear we can craft won't be bought and won't be used.

This is the biggest problem I see for crafters... its easy for SE to make new recipes for new gear that can be used at the 75+ level that have awesome stats... but now you can really make the case that the great majority of crafting recipes is garbage. Crafters might argue that this has always been the case (lots of statless gear that no one would buy) but it is much more pronounced when no one is playing a job at a level that they'd use the gear that you can make. Crafting and the Auction House will always have problems if this issue is never addressed by SE... merging the auction house won't fix it, raising the crafting caps won't fix it, nothing will unless SE makes some serious change that would give players a reason to really *want* to level their lower jobs outside of Abyssea. We need a new perk for doing so.

Taking this all in, there are some things that Camate said that I have questions and concerns about specifically:

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In regards to our plans to raise the crafting skill limits during the next version update, ... However, as a result of discussions based on all of your feedback we have opted to postpone this.

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Although I definitely believe that raising the crafting cap won't solve the problem we have, I don't see any reason to avoid doing so. It's a lot of work as it stands now, you really have to earn it, and it would revitalize it a bit. It would not bring lower level gear into the AH again... that's going to take a bigger fix that doesn't have anything to do with the crafting system. My biggest question is how is raising the crafting cap bad? What was the reason that they decided to postpone it specifically?

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Our ultimate goal is to add numerous items so that you can select what you wear depending on the situation and slot.

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Possible to create attractive, one of a kind items

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System to add stats via augment synergy

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I have some hesitation on these things based on how they are worded. But the basic gist is that people just don't like the randomness that has been thrown into so much of the newest gear that has been introduced into the game, as well as with the augment system. Fields of Valor gave us random stats that could possibly even result in the item becoming worse than it was before, and would always render it 100% unsellable with no way to remove augments (I still don't know why SE hasn't retroactively corrected this to allow FoV augments to be removed through synergy...). Synergy gave us reliable results with evoliths, but the evolith stats themselves were too specific to have many of them hold much merit. No one really wants to carry around on them a weapon that has WS Acc +5 against birds, especially since synergy favored augmenting weapons that were already statless. If we were augmenting pieces that were already good with WS Acc +5 against birds as an additional stat on top of that, it could've been much more worthwhile. But what the statless weapons needed were solid, reliable augments such as attack +5, accuracy bonuses, attributes, etc...

There are also some items that have been thrown in like those series of earrings that gives bonuses depending on if the part has a certain job present. We really need items and gear that don't require correct alignment of the planets in order to make use of them.

So yeah, I hope you are taking efforts to avoid that kind of 'situational' gear, since that sort of stuff was way too situational and has never really been used because of it, or the benefits from using it weren't good enough. I think if it isn't a piece that you don't think a player would want to keep in their inventory most of the time when they are playing, it probably isn't worth putting into the game. It's clear that you guys know what kinds of things we want... Abyssea is full of such treasures, let the crafters make some compareable stuff. Hopefully this is meant when you wrote "Possible to create attractive, one of a kind items" ... I'm just responding to the things we've seen in the past.

If we ever can breathe life back into lower level exp party like I described in the first half of this post, I think its possible to salvage some of the systems already in place... as any crafter knows who crafts armor we have lots of statless armor that are perfect blank slates for augmenting... but the current system has been too unforgiving. Potential fixes could include:

Fields of Valor Elite Training: Remove the negative stats. We are, after all, putting down our time in the form of tabs for this... it would make sense for the system to not butcher our piece and make it worse in the process. Make it so that weaker (but all positive) augments are more common with a small chance of a significant stat increase or a rare augment type (Haste, for example). Let us remove augments we don't like with synergy so that taking a chance at these doesn't ruin our chance to ever sell the item!

Synergy Evoliths: Improve the quality of the evoliths that fit on weapons that are naked and statless... no more of this "vs. beasts, only with dark magic" kind of boosts. Like I said, have evoliths drop varying levels of attributes like STR and straight stat mods (accuracy up).

I really am getting to the end, I'm sorry for the length lol

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Possible to create base items through synthesis

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I'm guessing that this is referring to stuff like the ebon ebur etc line of gear... I don't think the relationship between Synthesis and synergy really should follow the direction of Synthesis > Synergy. Synthesis crafters should be able to materials that can be used in synergy, base armor/weapon/accesories pieces to be augmented, but there should be an equal amount of gear that only those high level crafters can make on their own, which can rival even augmented gear (but with very difficult to obtain materials). Likewise, synergy should also be producing unique materials that could be used to help make those fancy gear items.

There should be an interplay between the two types but a crafter should be able to make solid, viable gear on their own. Especially since crafters run the added risk of losing their mats... you can fail synergy all day long if you have the fewell and you won't lose anything. But in Synthesis the crafter runs the risk of losing sometimes millions of gil not from lack of skill but because of the internal dice roll the game does for synthesis... such great risk needs a great reward.

It's taken me 7 years to get level 94 fishing. I think if the goalpost was moved and I suddenly found myself 26 levels from cap instead of 8 my head would explode.

I also apologize if any of this has been mentioned before, I do not have the time to read the 17 pages of posts. Therefore, I am mainly responding to Camate's post.

Here are my two cents~

It is kind of difficult not to draw parallels between FFXI and FFXIV not only because the games are made by the same company and one game in many ways mirrors the other but also because it feels as if they had attempted to do things that they didn’t complete in FFXI, so to speak.

This is best seen in the fact that FFXIV gives you the option to level a craft as a “main job”. While it certainly isn’t a bad idea, what SE failed to do was shift the game play to suit the players that opted to play a crafter rather than a typical mage/dd job.

That being said it is rather important to note that crafting as a whole is a very, grossly, outdated concept in FFXI. Simply put the time and effort spent crafting in FFXI does not equal to (even by a fraction) the reward. It simply takes too long to really get anywhere. Challenge is important in any game and one certainly wants the players to feel accomplished but often times that is not the case in FFXI. I, personally, have lost count of the many times I’ve said to myself “Christ, that too way too long to do.” but I digress (slightly).

In addition to what has been stated about giving crafting meaning and the like, it’s important to understand that it will take more than that to revive it. I’ve been level 87 Alchemy for quite some time now (well over a year, not to mention that it took me several years to get that point). I’ll be perfectly honest, as it is right now, I’ve no desire to touch it. The reason is really two fold. Firstly, there is nothing that I can make that is worthwhile- about the only thing I’d like to make is the Crystal Rose furnishing but even that doesn’t make up for the aggravation I’d face trying to get to that point. Not to mention since we can’t increase the size of our Mog House to be able to put more furnishings in there the furnishing that I’d eventually get around to making (if I’m bored enough) would only end up being inventory +1. Secondly, the journey to reach level 100 is such a bloody pain in the ass (if you’ll forgive the cursing) that just thinking about it is a huge turn off.

Speaking of crafting and the Mog House. Back in the day when the crafting signs ( i.e. Boneworker’s Signboard, Goldsmith’s Signboard... etc) came out many players thought that they would be able to use their Mog House as a shop of sorts. That would have been really cool- sadly that didn’t come to be, nor were we able to have our own stands/stores. It is something to consider and maybe even pass on to the FFXIV dev team if these changes are too much for FFXI.

A slight comment to the Mog House bit. The Mog House is a fairly original idea that I applaud SE for. I was very disappointed that they didn’t have it in FFXIV and I can only hope that they add it in rather quickly with adjustments to the Gardening (yet another idea that I applaud SE for) aspect so that it reflects more like a mini Farmerama/Farmville/LOTRO farming style. However it is my personal belief that they should allow for an actual Mog House expansion because furniture crafting is a rather large part of crafting. I know for a fact that I am not the only player who likes to buy furnishings for show and invite my friends over to chat it up and admire them. It is rather depressing that one cannot make the Mog House grow and show off more furnishings. Another thing I’d like to point out is an overall lack of interaction with the furnishings (but this is an overreaching problem with an overall lack of interaction with the world that is going to be saved for discussion on a rainy day).

Some players may discredit the idea of decorating the Mog House for frivolous reasons but one must consider- we picked the characters we picked because they appealed to us. They in many ways become an extension of ourselves. The Mog House, likewise becomes that extension as well. Being able to decorate it how we see fit is something that is small but that does bring joy to players- it gives us a sense of accomplishment and individuality. It is the same reason people want barber shops and casual clothing. It is as if a small piece of Vana ‘diel is “ours”.

All in all the things to keep in mind about crafting is number one- it should be fun and number two- that the time/effort put into the endeavor should directly effect the reward.

P.S. Feel free to pass this onto the FFXIV dev team as it can help, I’m sure.

Edit:
It would be very beneficial for craters to have "Craft Bags"- as in, bags/storage/etc that crafting/gathering items would go into. You will not believe just how much inventory the crafting/gathering materials take up- especially in the higher levels.

~ Thanks!

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Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull

It's taken me 7 years to get level 94 fishing. I think if the goalpost was moved and I suddenly found myself 26 levels from cap instead of 8 my head would explode.

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I don't think anyone is suggesting they raise the crafting cap in that sense. We're talking about more 100s, but I wasn't able to read all the posts so I'm not sure if it had been brought up... if so, yeah, I agree with you. I just want to be able to take more to 100.

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Originally Posted by Avina

I don't think anyone is suggesting they raise the crafting cap in that sense. We're talking about more 100s, but I wasn't able to read all the posts so I'm not sure if it had been brought up... if so, yeah, I agree with you. I just want to be able to take more to 100.

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SE only mentioned multiple level 100 crafts but a few posters were suggesting beyond 100 for their main craft earlier in the thread.

I'd like to be able to take cooking up without worries that I'm losing out on recipes in my main craft that would need a higher sub or needing to spend those points on my main craft so I'm against going past 100 for now to and all for having as many 100's as we feel like grinding out. I feel other issues need taken care of before bother though or we'll just have a short burst of power level crafting and NPC'ing the results. Hardly anybody to buy the low level stuff, and no low level stuff for anybody to buy. Catch22. So I think the decision to postpone was a good one.

I'd like to see a move to make cooking a secondary skill (like fishing).

I like the extra 80 points so that you can have to 100 level jobs. Crafting is a very lost art.

I just want to know just what the reason really was that has caused SE to back away from an idea that was met with overwhelming praise for the first several pages of this post. I think especially after telling us you'd be raising the cap, we should be given a solid reason why.

Ya, it's not like you said you were considering it, you said with certainty that the cap would be raised. People started leveling in anticipation, and now you are yanking it away from us. Well, looks like I'm still stuck sending broken Lu Shang's Rod to a woodworking mule.

I think it's important to note that they didn't say they weren't ever going to do it... they just said they're holding off on it for now to reevaluate where they were going with it all...

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Originally Posted by Zared

Ya, it's not like you said you were considering it, you said with certainty that the cap would be raised. People started leveling in anticipation, and now you are yanking it away from us. Well, looks like I'm still stuck sending broken Lu Shang's Rod to a woodworking mule.

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I thought that was exactly what they were saying.

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Originally Posted by Camate

In an effort to enhance future development, we would like to gather some feedback from all of the crafters in Vana’diel in regards to the below. We encourage you to discuss this with your fellow players and provide feedback on the direction we’re contemplating.

As you are aware, there is a limit for craft skills where once you reach skill level 60, you are limited to 40 more levels to distribute amongst the other eight crafts (excluding fishing). As such, the system only allows you to be able to reach 100 if you gain all 40 skill levels in one craft, or you can raise two crafts to 80 if you gain 20 levels in two different crafts.

For the future expansion of synthesis and synergy, we’re looking into raising the skill level limitation from 40 to 80 during the next version update. Once this change takes place, you will then be able to have two crafts leveled to 100.

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The last line that says "once this change takes place" is looks to be in an if sort of context to me. And they haven't said this won't ever this; just postponed their plans to consider adjustments to those plans based on our feedback. Hopefully this is so they can figure out a way to have all the items made by people leveling a new craft post update to have a place to go besides an NPC.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Future plans
Based on our desire to reevaluate how players obtain items, as well as adding attractive item recipes, we plan on changing our focus from shifting synthesis to synergy.

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what do u mean plan on shifting from synthasis to syngery? Its all SE has done since its introduction. Its realy a bad system start to finish. Its better off being removed much less imbelished. Youve heard plenty of ppl here that would like the skill cap raised to start crafting more, dispite the fact that theirs no profite in it. Theyde do it jsut for the enjoyment of it. Somehting you wont find much of for synergy. The only ppl defending that are genrealy those few making some gills. Noones doing syngery because its actuly enjoyable. Even with 532 combined crafting skill levels so far, i want to do synergy about as much as i want to electrocute myself.

I'm a Clothcrafter since 6 years ago and what i would like to do more than using synergy (a skill I personally find bothersome), is the ability to ensorcell my cloth with some kind of items or KI to give a boost on them (Example: once we get a Vermillion Cloak, have the ability to fuse it with other Clothcraft materials like a Magical Cotton Cloth and give it some extra stat boost) or the ability to use my Mog House as a Shop. SE please understand not all players like synergy, and many crafters I meet on the long run, where dedicated to just one craft and the idea of being forced to use synergy, and gather many mid-high level crafters at the same time its terrible, many players are focused on abyssea activities only, and if its difficult to find one crafter these days, imagine to find more than one just to do synergy.

Another point I think many crafters are been waiting for years is the ability to give that personal touch to the results, like changing colors or add some feature to the final product, anyway I think asking for these kind of changes would be useless as SE keeps forcing us to use synergy, and low-mid level players won't come out of abyss... and use our crafts

Hello again~ I’m back with another point/suggestion for SE.

Just a little while ago I made a Duchy Earring with my sis and was both happy and well, very disappointed about 2.5 seconds later. Which brought me to typing this little bit up.

There are a number of crafted items that have charges, such as the Duchy Earring or the Warp Cudgel but the cool down timer on such items is kind of ridiculously long. Then there are other items, ones that are not crafted such as the exp rings or the Nexus Cape that also have the same issue- but I’ll get back to those items in a bit. First the crafted items with charges. I’m not sure how it would be game breaking if either the Duchy Earring or the Warp Cudgel had let’s say, 5 min timers. If anything it would ask for an increase in production of those items because people would want to use them more and actually be able to use them efficiently. What I’m getting at is, in a nutshell, please rethink the cool down timers on crafted items that have a certain charge. If you want players to actually use those items then you have to enable them to be used in a rather sensible fashion.

Onto non-crafted items with a charge/timer. Things like the exp rings have a long recast time before they can be used again 16+ hours, depending which one you use. Reducing the cool down timer on them wouldn't do much since you can only charge them once a week anyway. Homing rings are another example- instead of teleporting you to your home nation it teleports you to the OP of your home nation (in the zone you’re in) if your nation owns it. Which is kind of silly but not so bad because some zones are rather huge and OP’s are sometimes the fastest way to warp. The real killer is the 24hr timer on them. It makes them virtually useless. How many times do you think players would need such a service? Once a day? You’ve got that wrong. Another example is the Nexus Cape. It was a reward for buying all of the Mini Expansions (ACP, MKE, ASA) which is great! However... it has a rather very silly timer on it, which would be fine if it wasn’t so restricted in where you can use it. If the cool down timer for the cape is 48hrs then why is it so bad to be able to teleport to the party leader’s location, regardless of where he is? It’s a fair enough of a trade off if you ask me and something you may want to look into.

Ah, one more thing! I was checking out the FFXIV forums and found a rather tantalizing bit of information. It was a response to a question about if SE will let the players see food stats or not. The answer was well, yes, in no uncertain terms. I’d like to point this out to you and please have you mention this to SE. It’s a bit late in the game but better late then never. In short, please let us see food stats- it would certainly prompt for more food usage or even promote more crafting- especially if we’re allowed to use multiple foods.

Thanks for your time!

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Originally Posted by Godofgods

what do u mean plan on shifting from synthasis to syngery? Its all SE has done since its introduction. Its realy a bad system start to finish. Its better off being removed much less imbelished. Youve heard plenty of ppl here that would like the skill cap raised to start crafting more, dispite the fact that theirs no profite in it. Theyde do it jsut for the enjoyment of it. Somehting you wont find much of for synergy. The only ppl defending that are genrealy those few making some gills. Noones doing syngery because its actuly enjoyable. Even with 532 combined crafting skill levels so far, i want to do synergy about as much as i want to electrocute myself.

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God the Synergy cry babies are back, give it a break...SE is not going to remove a crafting system just too please you...there many of us who like synergy and mastered it, synergy it suppose to be more complex than tradition crafting...If you dont like it or UNDERSTAND it dont do it, that your problem, leave the synergy to the talented crafters...

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Originally Posted by Cljader1

God the Synergy cry babies are back, give it a break...SE is not going to remove a crafting system just too please you...there many of us who like synergy and mastered it, synergy it suppose to be more complex than tradition crafting...If you dont like it or UNDERSTAND it dont do it, that your problem, leave the synergy to the talented crafters...

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Last I checked this was a discussion topic where SE was gathering the opinions of crafters to see the direction that crafting wanted to go. And that's what he did, and huh, he didn't insult synergists like you did to him. You call him a cry baby, insinuate that he's dumb and not a talented crafter, kind of more than enough to qualify for a flame post.

Write something constructive next time.

Cljader, I am glad you love synergy. Seriously. Lately I have been enjoying it more as well. You are lucky, Cljader. Your favorite craft is booming with SE! The rest of us would like similar love from SE for our favorite crafts. What's wrong with that? Nothing :D
Oh for people who hate synergy I did discover something interesting. The drag on timing in the menu seems to be better if you have your own private crucible. The necklace one. I havent had a lot of chance to try it out but the little I did try seemed much smoother. Crossing my fingers it wasn't just a fluke.

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Originally Posted by annewandering

Cljader, I am glad you love synergy. Seriously. Lately I have been enjoying it more as well. You are lucky, Cljader. Your favorite craft is booming with SE! The rest of us would like similar love from SE for our favorite crafts. What's wrong with that? Nothing :D
Oh for people who hate synergy I did discover something interesting. The drag on timing in the menu seems to be better if you have your own private crucible. The necklace one. I havent had a lot of chance to try it out but the little I did try seemed much smoother. Crossing my fingers it wasn't just a fluke.

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I'm glad synergy is working better for you, all people have to do is try and work to understand it. Synergy isn't that difficult once you understand the basic mechanics and do all your tuturials. It was overwhemming for me to when I first started it, but after I learn the basic mechanic for it I was shocked on how easy and understandable it was.

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Originally Posted by Avina

Last I checked this was a discussion topic where SE was gathering the opinions of crafters to see the direction that crafting wanted to go. And that's what he did, and huh, he didn't insult synergists like you did to him. You call him a cry baby, insinuate that he's dumb and not a talented crafter, kind of more than enough to qualify for a flame post.

Write something constructive next time.

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I'm a master synergist and it easy to tell when a poster is speaking about synergy when they have either never done it or have extremely low lvl in it. I hear the spillage of many fallacies posted in these threads about needing 6 crafters or multiple crafters to be able to do synergy, this is untrue there only a few recipes that require another crafter and those are the Aern Weapons and the Galley Kitchen that it; 98% percent of the recipes are done solo not requiring another crafter at all. Moreover, outside of a few people complaining about menu lag, there has been NO constructive criticism of synergy what so ever. I hear certain people say its a bad system from start to finish and I ask how or what so bad about it and the people who dislike synergy comes up with nothing.

@Camate, I'm sorry, but we're never going to see an increase in things being sold on the Auction House unless MAJOR changes are made.
As-is, nobody will sell anything on the AH that doesn't make a good amount of money, mostly due to the 7 item limit.

As much as I'd love to put up all the random things I obtain that are worth ~1k on the AH, I'm not going to waste that space for the many things I have easy access to that are worth 20k.
You'll almost never see low level gear, spells, etc on the AH because there isn't a market for them. However, plenty of people do get these scrolls from monsters and such, but they usually go straight to the NPC because the amount of time it takes to sell such an item isn't worth wasting 1 of their 7 AH slots. Not to mention, even if it did sell, you wouldn't make a whole lot of money.
However, if it was possible to put many items on the AH and also not have them get sent back in a few days, you'd likely see people putting these things they find on the AH, and eventually some noob who needs it will buy it. The noob gets their hands on a spell that otherwise could have been annoying for them to obtain, and the person selling the scroll got a random small amount of Gil.

Adding new synthesis recipes is cool and all, in fact I'm quite excited, however you can't really even mention such a change having any effect on the AHs.
All it will be doing is creating a new market on new items, which is nothing new.
I'd really like to see an update to the AH, to allow us to put a LARGE amount of items on it at once like other MMOs, but I don't think it would be doable because of PS2 limitations. =/
Every other MMO I've played with similar AH-type systems allowed you to put up AT LEAST 50 items, if not infinite. This allowed said games to have an extremely large economy, and a huge variety of items for anyone shopping around.
I can only dream of FFXI getting such an update, it seems.

Yes, please! I think this will help to restore the in game economies again. This will bring the supply back into various markets, and increase demand for materials again making it worthwhile to farm once again.

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Originally Posted by Kari

@Camate, I'm sorry, but we're never going to see an increase in things being sold on the Auction House unless MAJOR changes are made.
As-is, nobody will sell anything on the AH that doesn't make a good amount of money, mostly due to the 7 item limit.

As much as I'd love to put up all the random things I obtain that are worth ~1k on the AH, I'm not going to waste that space for the many things I have easy access to that are worth 20k.
You'll almost never see low level gear, spells, etc on the AH because there isn't a market for them. However, plenty of people do get these scrolls from monsters and such, but they usually go straight to the NPC because the amount of time it takes to sell such an item isn't worth wasting 1 of their 7 AH slots. Not to mention, even if it did sell, you wouldn't make a whole lot of money.
However, if it was possible to put many items on the AH and also not have them get sent back in a few days, you'd likely see people putting these things they find on the AH, and eventually some noob who needs it will buy it. The noob gets their hands on a spell that otherwise could have been annoying for them to obtain, and the person selling the scroll got a random small amount of Gil.

Adding new synthesis recipes is cool and all, in fact I'm quite excited, however you can't really even mention such a change having any effect on the AHs.
All it will be doing is creating a new market on new items, which is nothing new.
I'd really like to see an update to the AH, to allow us to put a LARGE amount of items on it at once like other MMOs, but I don't think it would be doable because of PS2 limitations. =/
Every other MMO I've played with similar AH-type systems allowed you to put up AT LEAST 50 items, if not infinite. This allowed said games to have an extremely large economy, and a huge variety of items for anyone shopping around.
I can only dream of FFXI getting such an update, it seems.

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Personally I'd like to see a MH addition called bank or whatever where you can put items to be sold, choose the price, items are updated to the AH system. Tax is taken out once items are sold. I guess just like bazaar except it goes through the AH. But I bet that's an idea that is surely is impossible to come true for some reason or another. Just seems like a simple way to bypass the AH problems. Key word seems.

I also really wouldn't mind tax having an overhaul. I'm all for the bazaar system but it would be extremely helpful if people could just put high end items on AH to sell them without some silly tax taking out unreasonable amounts of gil from the sale...

Let crafters do quest daily and gets gil back as reward im talking about good reward not for craft cost 5k reward 4.8k cause there is many people with high craft skill allrdy.

Hmm... but then I think there would be some motivated people like me who would totally level every craft to as high as they could... just because they can. But I think it'd be better to raise the total number of levels you could increase after 60 from 40 to 80 rather than raise the subcraft cap to 80. This way, recipes could still call for a specialist in one arena. If everyone could get 80 in every subcraft, then specialists would only be needed for very few recipes.

Also, I like synergy, but I hate leveling it. Platinum Leaves and Vitriol go in... platinum leaves and vitriol come out. Repeat ad nauseum. I'm at 29 and sick of it.

I never ever understood why on earth there was a crafting limit in the first place, it's a needless limitation. We were allowed to level every job to 75, why couldn't we take every craft to 100?

Sure maybe to add a bit of balance make it so that past 40 levels garnered over 60 each level gets progressively hard to obtain, until taking the last craft to 100 takes much more effort than the first.

I don't see a reason with the current economy to have any limit at all. If people have the time, effort, and means to take all crafts to 100 what reason is there to prevent them from that?

Second, if you really want to reinvigorate the economy for ffxi crafters, the answer is simple. Abyssea is all the rage so take advantage of this.

Make 9 NMs, one in each zone, that are popped by trading an item to an ???. Their pop items are made by crafting a couple of other pops dropped from various other NMs in their respective zones. Said synthed items each have their own respective craft.

And most importantly, make sure every single one of these NMs drops something worthwhile so there will be demand for said items.

Demand for these items will go through the roof. Crafters will have something to profit off of again, and third parties will have items they can farm and sell to crafters.

Nearly all abyssea zones at the moment have a fishing spot. Off the top of my head tahronghi and attohwha seems to be the only one lacking. Make a fish in each abyssea one give up a pop item for an NM when traded to Zaldon. Boom fishing now has an epic new fish to sell on the AH to everyone AND RMTs have little to no access to it due to the nature of abyssea.

Also: I love the direction you guys are going with furniture, pretty much every piece of furniture you guys have been adding recently is absolutely beautiful. I just recently obtained the Galley Kitchen and have to say its stunningly well made. My compliments to your designers on these objects, they're doing a fine job!

So on that note, I would very much enjoy more of these epic pieces of large furniture. One of the biggest thing I've noticed you guys have missed out on in mog houses are... chairs. We literally have no chairs. We have a couple stools and a bench, but there is nothing that really fits with our tables. A couple different types of chairs would be cool.

A wider variety of paintings and other wall objects would also be enjoyable. Maybe another big wall hanging like the Gustaberg painting would be nice.

As per crafting, it seems that food has quickly dropped to little use. I mainly suspect this as to Abyssea's incredible size of buffs now dwarf the importance of food.

Maybe add some food items that somehow augment your character in abyssea? A set of foods that increase the potency of lights you gain in abyssea would probably sell like wildfire on the auctionhouse, or maybe in the form of stacks of "drops" from alchemy in the medicine section.

How about some Treasure Hunter food? Now THAT would be well sought after on the AH.

Also: You guys really REALLY need to add all the new post ToAU arrows/bolts to the NPC for quivering, too many really good arrows and bolts are having 0 demand because they can't be quivered and thus take up too much inventory space.

Finally, either increase the rate of skillups in synergy or lower the cost of Fewell. It shouldn't cost 100~150K to get 10 levels in a craft. Maybe lower the cost of fewell as you level up, or the inverse?

Also fishing seems to be getting a lot of love lately regarding items to make it easier. Maybe consider adding a new 150K cost GP armor to each craft that gives something like "HQ rate +10%" or something. A lot of the economy ran back in the day on GP, demand for products to make GP items helped run things but now everyone and their mule has their apron and item.

These are all things I just thought up off the top of my head.

If i read right max will be 80 for all craft and 40 extra level pass that mark
So 2 craft at 100 and rest at 80...

I just ran across this thread and wanted to voice my disappointment about the postponement of the skill cap increase (prolly too late but what the hell). As a very old school crafter, when I heard about the skill cap increase I thought it could breathe some life into a portion of the game that I think needs it.

There are very few things craftable (not synergy) anymore that are even worth bragging about; and I hate it. Synergy is a stupid and clumsy system; hardly anybody does it. Requiring 2+ people to make anything worthwhile is difficult, makes such items very unavailable, and ruins one of the best things about "crafting"; it's something to do when none of your friends are online or you don't have much time to play.

Multiple 100+ crafts would ease the burden synergy imposes on crafters. Who cares if we have multiple 100+ skills; just makes it so we have to mule less and might increase supply in terms of old synths. Since gil is useless anymore (R.I.P. relic and mythic weapons, salvage gear, H.Q. anything cause it'll be junk in 1 update, etc.) some of synths that require subs might be able to be HQ'd at a higher rate and will hopefully increase supply of some of the things that have become rare because hardly anybody crafts for money now it seems (arhats +1 for example).

I could prolly rant forever; but in short:
1. Please don't postpone the skill cap increase.
2. Please stop making consumables like arrows/bolts/bullets synergy only.
3. Please stop making the "awesome" armors synergy only.

Or you could just give up on synergy like you gave up on the ebon/furia/ebur armor you released with it; because it sucks.

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Originally Posted by Camate

• Improvements to synergy, fishing, chocobo digging, harvesting, mining, gathering systems

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Wow, it's been a while; a very long while. I don't think many people dig anymore. Maybe it's because damn near everything you can dig up now drops in a gold chest in abyssea which people farm 24/7, because it's the entire game to do so.

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Originally Posted by Bling

Wow, it's been a while; a very long while. I don't think many people dig anymore. Maybe it's because damn near everything you can dig up now drops in a gold chest in abyssea which people farm 24/7, because it's the entire game to do so.

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lol there are people who still lives outside abyssea, lmao

I'm on the line about having 2 level 100 guilds. I see 2 happening things with this.

I see the materials to make items sky rocket and the price of the end result of the syth lowered drasticly due to the fact that there will be so many in the Auction House. The player purchasing the item would not see a problem with it, but the amount of gil lost will hurt the person that made it.

I also see an improvement in HQ'ing items that can sell quick. Like Bullets, Arrows, Shihei, Sneak, Invis, etc. If you have the right guilds leveled that is.

Although synergy has its benefits, I haven't grown fond of it. I understand that now:

1: ) Adventureres now can work together to make something. (Which I haven't grasp whether this is good or bad now)

2: ) There is no loss of items (why don't they make this for the normal guilds instead of having our MH filled with crap to prevent a lost by a certain %?)

3: ) You can add slots to certain weapons and armor
(Now this is what synergy is about to me but the problem now is the augmented armor / weapons people don't use because of abyssea, dynamis, magian trials.) Can we make an update that adds more weapons and armor to the slot system?

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Originally Posted by Jada

3: ) You can add slots to certain weapons and armor
(Now this is what synergy is about to me but the problem now is the augmented armor / weapons people don't use because of abyssea, dynamis, magian trials.) Can we make an update that adds more weapons and armor to the slot system?

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The things you can fill the slots with are complete trash. I'm not farming a bunch of NM so I can be carrying 10 different situational evolith that give me marginal +attack vs specific mob families and re-augmenting my gear (which will have crap for non augment stats if it can be augmented) everytime I switch to fighting a different mob.

Just look at it.
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Ev...iangleUpFilled

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Originally Posted by GlobalVariable

The things you can fill the slots with are complete trash. I'm not carring 10 different situation evolith that give me marginal +attack vs specific mob families and re-augmenting my gear everytime I switch to fighting a different mob.

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You're right. I don't know why I didn't bring that up.

The Aug's you can add to the slots are pure crap that players would not use even when the system 1st came out.

Add slots to Emp/Relic/Mystic weapons and good evolith's drop in Salvage/Abyssea/Dynamis lol

Just edit the stats on all those evolith stones, change what can be placed in which gear after. Fixed sizes and +amounts off specific targets of actually useful stats like it that leaping lizzy can cough up +2 agi on a small sized stone to fit a small sized slot. None of this vs lizards crap. Nussknacker being a much high level can cough up a larger stone for +6 instead (which would not fit the smaller slot). Just completely overwrite the existing evolith stone possibilities.

Make the shape/element stuff sort out mage/melee stats and such instead. Mages didn't need +attack(melee stat) vs birds on their INT gear...


Gonna stop talking about synergy's evolith now, before its to far off the topic of crafting. >.>

really bummed that this is not in this update when it very much sounded like it was going to be

That is an excellent idea to put forward, but if it is can the issue of skill ups be addressed, as speaking for many the ability to level crafts at times is absurd, and as example alchemy synth to cap at 61 venom dust to get from 58 has so far taken 12 stacks of farmed scorpion claws, synths made on the right day and moon phases and resulted in 1 broken synth and .3 skill ups only, which is by my reckoning an awful lot of work for so little reward.

Crafting:
- remove the wait time between crafting.
- add "Craft All" option when choosing crystal+mats, it will repeat the same craft as long as you have the mats in the inventory.
- remove guild points restrictions, allow us to gather points for different crafts at the same time.
- Crafting will be revived if you bring it back to the end-game scene, powerful crafted items alongside dropped items, like cursed gear.
- let Crafting share a good amount of new unique items like it used to be, nowadays there are many sources that give items like boxes and such, leaving nothing to add for crafting...

Chocobo Digging:
- increase the Stack of greens to 99.
- increase the maximum items per zone, with Chocobo Endurance gear I usually dry up a zone myself before reaching the cap...(from full)
- Add more zone with new items to dig with.
- make personal Chocobo Digging stats relevant, and enhance the abilities more than just adding new items to the pool (sometimes its even bad when new items are crap..) make them target rare items more often.
- add a massage when the Chocobo hits the daily cap (for fishing too if you didn't do already?)

Was this implemented in the update? Not seeing it anywhere in the update logs.