Adjustments to Embrava and Perfect Defense

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Originally Posted by Washburn

Mages can benefit from the regain o embrava more than they can from the refresh if they're in the right situation. Spirit Taker.

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This and procing staff and club in Abyssea. I know it's old but my mind is still on things I actually like to do, all of which this Embrava nerf will render unbearably time consuming after having it as is for so long.

As a player who has both leveled and enjoyed the many aspects of both the Scholar and Summoner jobs I implore the development team to reconsider the adjustments to, at the very least, Embrava. As others have mentioned, completely removing the regain effect makes the spell essentially worthless with the viable amounts of mp restoring equipment and buffs from other jobs the new refresh effect adds. Creating more of a compromise would be the best situation for rectifying the current plans; please consider retaining a regain effect, but with a lower potency (such as 3), along with a lower potency refresh effect (3 is also good for this). A few others in this thread have suggested this, but a 3 refresh/regain split would be the most compromising.
If the regain effect cannot absolutely be retained, the effects of Adloquium should be increased based upon enhancing magic skill (500+), up to a cap of, at the very least, 3. The regen effect should remain at its current potency. The haste effect can certainly be reduced if needed, but it is already possible to reach the haste cap with bard's march songs, and this doesn't seem like a logical adjustment. The effect duration needs to come to a compromise; 90 seconds is simply too short, even with a reduction to the 2 hour timer for all jobs. Something that would max out at about 5-8 minutes (WITH perpetuance) would be a common ground that seems acceptable, while favoring more balance.

The Perfect Defense adjustment is definitely more reasonable. However; I propose that it be set at a 60 second duration with 500 summoning magic skill, with increasing duration from then on, as creating equipment with even more summoning magic skill to reach 600 will be very difficult while sacrificing other statistics; to an ideal cap of 90 seconds for those invested in summoner to reach this 600 skill cap. If 90 seconds is too long, perhaps one of 70 or 75 would be more plausible.

If a compromise cannot be made, then the content suggested for development must be altered further to provide true game balance. The problem with these events is monster attack strength (Legion: 1000-2000 damage TP abilities is not fair game balance with the rate at which these monsters gain TP, along with tacking on enfeebling effects to these damaging abilities), speed, and radius (Arch Dynamis Lord being the supreme culprit, and Legion abilities of Ironclads/Botulus/etc.). Also the enfeebling and death spells of the monsters should be reduced if these compromise changes cannot be made and the content itself must be re-adjusted, as monsters can effectively incapacitate entire alliances with these incredibly powerful AoE effects.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings everyone!

As was previously mentioned, with the addition of the new special abilities as well as the shortening on the cool down timers for the current special abilities, we are planning to adjust the effects of both Embrava and Perfect Defense. The adjustments will be reflected in this week’s Test Server update, but I’d like to share the information with you beforehand.

• Embrava:
  • Effect duration: Currently 5 minutes → Adjusted to 90 seconds
  • Haste: Currently 1% increase for every 15 enhancing skill points → Adjusted to 1% increase for every 20 enhancing skill points. Maximum of 25% at 500 skill
  • Regain Effect: While the value will remain unchanged, the Regain effect will be changed to Refresh.
• Perfect Defense:
  • Effect duration: Currently 90 seconds → Adjusted to 30 seconds. +1 sec for every 20 summoning skill points, maximum of 60 seconds with 600 skill (30 seconds +30 seconds)
  • Effect: No change

Along with the above adjustments, the content that featured these abilities heavily into their strategies will see adjustments as well.

• Nyzul Isle Uncharted Area Survey
  We'll be reducing the number of Astrariums necessary to exchange for equipment from 25 to 5.
  *As a result of this, the number of Astrariums players have in possession will be reduced by 1/5.
  
  The idea that you'll need some luck on your side to reach level 100 will not change. While we expect that the number of floors reachable and the frequency will decrease due to the adjustments to Embrava, we decided to balance this by reducing the number of Astrariums required for equipment.
  
  
• Legion
  Monster HP will be reduced by around 10%
  
  This will be applied to all monsters, and adjusted so the overall pace will become faster making it possible to defeat close to the same amount of monsters as before within the 30 minutes time limit.
  
  
• Einherjar
  Odin's Chamber II: Odin's HP will be reduced by around 10-15%.
  
  As this is different from Legion and only a single monster battle, we will be adjusting the HP on a slightly larger range.

Besides the above content, Perfect Defense and Embrava are utilized for Arch Dynamis Lord and Provenance Watcher; however, the battle times for these monsters are relatively short, so we would like to monitor the battle situation at their current difficulty.

All of these adjustments will be implemented during the Test Server update this week, but we will continue to look at balance and make adjustments as needed.

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ok, I can agree with everything EXCEPT the "some luck" to reach 100. I've been very vocal in mutliple aspects of the game in my belief that "if you do the work, you should get access to the reward" and I haven't changed my belief 1 iota. Reaching 100 should simply be dependant on having: a. beaten the content, and b. having the points to get to 100. you see, that is what was RIGHT with Nyzul 1.0. Keeping it "luck-dependant" is synonomyous with keeping it "hack-dependant". While the Devs may choose to put on their blinders, the fact is many players use 3rd pt tools to reach 100, and anyone who is even remotely paying attention to the outside sites knows this-as I know the anti-RMT group does; keeping hacks viable to an increased success rate simply sends the message that SE is now ok and in fact EMBRACES the use of 3rd party tools to beat your content.

if that's the case, stop pussy-footing around and just say so, but if not, simply tie the content to doing the work. I realize this will probably piss off alot of 3rd party tool users, but since you actually have to respect a person before their opinion matters to you, well, let's just say I don't and leave it at that

<irony>Incidentally, SE forgot to add that blue mage will have more procs for voidwatch.</irony>

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Originally Posted by Camate

Next, keep in mind that these adjustments to Perfect Defense and Embrava were made with the idea that all special abilities’ cool down timers will be shortened. With that said, during this week’s Test Server update we are also planning on making adjustments so that the cool down timer on current and new special abilities will be halved. (We are also planning to make it possible to cut this time even further via equipment and merit points.)

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I just want to make it very clear that what I said in my earlier post was based on this knowledge. At the very least I haven't forgotten that Mr. Matsui has said they'll be reducing the recasts of the 2 hour abilities. As far as I'm concerned, the proposed changes the development team have offered for Embrava don't even make it good enough to be used on a 10 minute recast timer, much less 30-60 minutes.

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Originally Posted by Camate

we would appreciate it if you could post specific feedback about what would be the preferred method for going about these changes.

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Any method that doesn't make me want to call Commander Cody to tell him to execute order 66. How you go about it, I leave to you. But just for the record the correct method will include either serious HNM nerfs or these two JAs remaining where they are, untouched.

I like what PD does. It makes the impossible possible, which I presume is the only reason for it to exist because otherwise it's pretty useless. I suppose the same goes for Embrava but it'd be far more useful for someone somewhere than these proposed PD adjustments. I do think in whatever case we could stand to have a little less need for PD and Embrava.

Added thought with ADL: Either Terror duration needs nerfing, or PD needs to grant resistance against it. It's a 30 second Terror on a fight where if it's not dead when PD drops, the alliance dies in seconds.

As stated multiple times the regain being changed to Refresh benefits almost no one DD wise teh only DD that would even use the mp would be BLU or DRK, I don't know if the devs seem to think adding refresh would suddenly make the mages melee or something.... NO never gonna happen.

Perfect Defense the nerf is ... ok, With changes to specific events:

Arch Dynamis Lord The Aoe Range of his attacks are beyond absurd the back line jobs have to be WAAAAY outside support range to avoid being destroyed by his TP attacks, the Terror can easily outlast Perfect Defense, in effect making it USELESS

Legion reducing mobs HP by 10% equaling the sheer effect of pre nerf Embrava, kinda doubt that, with the Haste Regen AND Regain from embrava the mobs were dying quick enough. As stated many times in this thread the biggest issue with the current "end game" is the sheer damage of the AoE attacks, 2000 aoe's generally equal dead alliance, single target attacks reaching the 2k range is far preferable, as it gives players a chance to regroup have a secondary tank hold while the first is raised and recovered.

Nyzul 2.0 Embrava is almost Necessary to reach the higher floors with the up to 1/2 run duration the haste regen and Regain worked to lessen the downtime during the grinds of kill alls / Boss Floors, The Order lamps tend to be run killers on an already heavily luck based event.

Odin 2/ Prov. watcher : can't comment as i've only read the wiki/BG about the fight never attempted

In essence the way the changes to Embrava and Perfect Defense combined with the "changes" to existing events
in general seems to be "how can we reduce the efficiency as much as possible, while giving as little back as possible"

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Originally Posted by Camate

Next, keep in mind that these adjustments to Perfect Defense and Embrava were made with the idea that all special abilities’ cool down timers will be shortened. With that said, during this week’s Test Server update we are also planning on making adjustments so that the cool down timer on current and new special abilities will be halved. (We are also planning to make it possible to cut this time even further via equipment and merit points.)

We understand that these adjustments will change the usage of these abilities and may cause inconvenience to some, and we apologize for this. We would like to proceed with these adjustments carefully, so we will be looking closely at the feedback we receive. Also, we realize that there are a good amount of people who oppose these changes, but we would appreciate it if you could post specific feedback about what would be the preferred method for going about these changes.

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Any news on how Astral Flow will be changed to be useful as a whole instead of just used for PD now?

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Originally Posted by saevel

There are no other "strats". If you don't have PD on you then you die.

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against ADL, yeah not really, but he's a big FU to us all anyways. He's not a real boss, he has no tactics, he's just better than you, which is why you have to cheat to win. Adjust ADL, adjust content. Get rid of PD and Embrava dragging SMN and SCH along so that they don't get real adjustments. SMN is regarded as boring because all you really ever do is throw PD. You just throw 1 move and then maybe do shock squall rotations. I'd personally like more for SMN. It would be nice if you could use Astral Flow for damage...you know against bosses.

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Originally Posted by Camate

We would like to proceed with these adjustments carefully, so we will be looking closely at the feedback we receive. Also, we realize that there are a good amount of people who oppose these changes, but we would appreciate it if you could post specific feedback about what would be the preferred method for going about these changes.

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Embrava
Reduce che amount tp/tic you get, but keep the Regain in place of Refresh, please.
Also, base duration should be 120 seconds instead of 90.

I don't have much to complain about the Perfect Defense change.
Something that needs serious fixing instead is all the other content.
The reasons why the combination of Embrava, Perfect Defense and other abilities were abused was not because the monster's health was too high, but rather because they have frustrating abilities that one-shot you or seriously make you unable to do anything.
Too many "cheap" strategies the monsters use to reach a false level of high difficulty in the attempt to counterbalance the existance of powerful combinations of buffs on the players' side.
If you nerf such mentioned players' abilities, you should fix those monsters "strategies" as well, not their HP wich hardly matters.
If it's too much work to fix all of those abilities individually, then do a general % reduction to all of their damage.
Maybe it wouldn't completely solve the problem, but at least it would be better than cutting their health by 10%.

Also, why no fix at all to Provenance Watcher and Arch Dynamis Lord?
What about adjusting the "??? floors" jump in Nyzul to make it a bit less random, or to make it possible to jump a higher amount of floors if you're lucky? Or to increase the minimum amount of floors you can jump through that command?
Stuff like this is what's needed to fully compensate for the nerf of Embrava/PerfectDefense and reach a final scenario where things are, hopefully, even more balanced than they were at start.

Nerfzilla!! - what I don't understand is why you're changing Embrava from a melee buff to a more mage based one ? We never asked for refresh yet you insist on forcing it upon us ?

How long before you nerf Kaustra just to add insult to injury for Scholars...

You say it's to balance out the game when the new 2 hour abilities are introduced, but to be honest Scholar has a rather pointless substitute. You're in effect killing off this jobs usefulness when it comes to certain content.

But clearly we the people that play the game obviously don't know what we want at all , we will just have to put up with being spoon fed this tripe until we either give up and move on or the development team realise just how unhappy we are with them...

SE you f*ck up yet again. Over and over and over again. People spent time to level SCH, to merit SCH, get the gear and augments to get Enhancing skill up enough to be able to do good Embrava, and get into, among other things, Neo Nyzul Isle groups. These are people who DO NOT CHEAT, unlike those who use all 3rd party tools and cheat and hack and sell NNI clears & gears that you do nothing about. Then you nerf it for the honest players. Badly. You just keep annoying your players, seems you really want to f*ck everyone off.

Now that the cheaters/hackers got their gear, you gimp it for everyone else. BRAVO! BRAVO!

It is not the gilsellers who are ruining the game, it is you SE, you and only you.

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Originally Posted by ManaKing

against ADL, yeah not really, but he's a big FU to us all anyways. He's not a real boss, he has no tactics, he's just better than you, which is why you have to cheat to win. Adjust ADL, adjust content. Get rid of PD and Embrava dragging SMN and SCH along so that they don't get real adjustments. SMN is regarded as boring because all you really ever do is throw PD. You just throw 1 move and then maybe do shock squall rotations. I'd personally like more for SMN. It would be nice if you could use Astral Flow for damage...you know against bosses.

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It's not just ADL, it's Legion also. After the first wave the boss are pretty much ADL style, spamming stupid crazy AoE's while laughing at you.

There are many questions the devs need to ask themselves. What are SMN and SCH supposed to be or do? What is their role? Do they really have one? Is the "hybrid" thing really working out for them (or RDM or DNC)? Do they need to be given a specific or primary role? Are the planned abilities and adjustments really going to make them desired or just leave them in the same spot they are now? What happens when everything is implemented and they're still wallowing around at the bottom of the barrel? Shouldn't the time and effort players have put toward any job be rewarded with the potential for effectiveness?

As for content: What content is supposed to be accessible for which caliber of player? Is there enough for the average player to do? Do players have the tools necessary to have a reasonable chance to succeed? Are players even supposed to be able to succeed? How often? Should luck really be such a strong deciding factor? Are the adjustments made going to improve the players' experience at all or just drag out content for the benefit of the bottom line? Isn't there supposed to be a balance between the two? Are players really going to run the hamster wheel you're building or will they just ignore content or quit altogether?

its funny, its just like the company i work for, i have countless customers tell me they want us to carry a certain item and our headoffice tells us to inform them of such cases and when i do i always get told by them "No customer wants that, we tested it in (insert god awful location with heavy foreign community) and they didn't like it."

Its the same with this game no matter what we tell SE what we the people probably keep their company afloat they turn around and tell us that isn't want we the people want.

How about you spend all this time and energy into getting rid of the RMT that blatantly walks around towns in trains of stands in zones and only moves when the NM they want is up and "instantly" are able to claim it and pull back even up mountain sides.

My Idea, which may not be very popular, How about completely change Embrava's effect, and scale the spells that it emulates? I.E. let the original haste spell scale up with enhancing magic skill, same with adloquiem, heck, scale refresh and refresh 2 while your at it. My whole problem with Embrava from when it originally came out was it made Rdm obsolete as a buffer. I say use this opportunity and give the buffing power back where it belongs. While I'm at it, here's an idea to differentiate Rdm single target buffs from AOE buffs: If you want to keep Rdm buffs single target, let them scale up with enhancing magic skill, while keeping AOE buffs at the current level of effectiveness.

As for the new Embrava effect, how about a boost to critical hit rate and critical hit damage + critical magic hit rate and critical magic damage? Personally, given the name Embrava, which reminds me of Brave, seems to me this would be a better effect. If that isn't enough, throw on a status effect prevention effect, and a bar-element boost as well.

And before anyone attacks me for turning the Embrava issue into a Rdm thread: Barring the eternal Rdm melee arguement, Embrava is what put us mage Rdms out of business. Like I said before, use this opportunity to right past wrongs, please don't make us Rdms even more obsolete by giving Embrava refresh as well.

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Originally Posted by Lollerblades

Nerfzilla!! - what I don't understand is why you're changing Embrava from a melee buff to a more mage based one ? We never asked for refresh yet you insist on forcing it upon us ?

How long before you nerf Kaustra just to add insult to injury for Scholars...

You say it's to balance out the game when the new 2 hour abilities are introduced, but to be honest Scholar has a rather pointless substitute. You're in effect killing off this jobs usefulness when it comes to certain content.

But clearly we the people that play the game obviously don't know what we want at all , we will just have to put up with being spoon fed this tripe until we either give up and move on or the development team realise just how unhappy we are with them...

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Have you tried using kaustra on anything that is big like in legion on odin on a salvage chariot on ADL on anything really that isnt a fodder mob... it doesnt need nerfing it already sucks since 90% of anything that matters resists a major portion of it to where I can push helix's higher by a fair ammount.

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Originally Posted by Camate

We understand that these adjustments will change the usage of these abilities and may cause inconvenience to some, and we apologize for this.

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If your intent was to make Embrava completely useless then I think you're on the right track. Taking the regain effect away was the worst thing you could have done, nobody needs refresh, as people have stated there are already many forms of refresh in the game.

Reduce the potency of regain to something like 2 or 3 tick but don't take it away totally because that renders Embrava useless.

I'm just glad that I hadn't got around to gearing SCH yet... I did go through the pain of skilling enhancing to cap though ><

I'd be interested in their thought process on this change, what do they think we use Embrava for, or expect us to use it for?

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Originally Posted by Camate

Next, keep in mind that these adjustments to Perfect Defense and Embrava were made with the idea that all special abilities’ cool down timers will be shortened.

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that makes no sense at all.

"here take this ability, it's no longer usefull, but now in 2h you can fail 2-4 times instead of winning once"

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Originally Posted by Sekhmet

My Idea, which may not be very popular, How about completely change Embrava's effect, and scale the spells that it emulates? I.E. let the original haste spell scale up with enhancing magic skill, same with adloquiem, heck, scale refresh and refresh 2 while your at it. My whole problem with Embrava from when it originally came out was it made Rdm obsolete as a buffer. I say use this opportunity and give the buffing power back where it belongs. While I'm at it, here's an idea to differentiate Rdm single target buffs from AOE buffs: If you want to keep Rdm buffs single target, let them scale up with enhancing magic skill, while keeping AOE buffs at the current level of effectiveness.

As for the new Embrava effect, how about a boost to critical hit rate and critical hit damage + critical magic hit rate and critical magic damage? Personally, given the name Embrava, which reminds me of Brave, seems to me this would be a better effect. If that isn't enough, throw on a status effect prevention effect, and a bar-element boost as well.

And before anyone attacks me for turning the Embrava issue into a Rdm thread: Barring the eternal Rdm melee arguement, Embrava is what put us mage Rdms out of business. Like I said before, use this opportunity to right past wrongs, please don't make us Rdms even more obsolete by giving Embrava refresh as well.

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Embrava didn't put RDM out of business, addressing the other mage jobs' constant crippling MP shortage as well as making all enfeebles worthless put RDM out of business. We RDMs have no desire to mana-screw other jobs just so we can have our job as Refresh whore back; how about giving us some enfeebles that actually help with mob TP moves instead? You know, like we've been asking for over and over forever?

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Originally Posted by saevel

It's not just ADL, it's Legion also. After the first wave the boss are pretty much ADL style, spamming stupid crazy AoE's while laughing at you.

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And you think the problem is that we don't have enough SMNs that aren't really SMNs instead of that Devs need to make actual content that is enjoyable for their player base? Lots of 2Hs get used/abused in Legion because they are making you boss rush. If it's going to be 18 people spaming 2hs, i'd like it to be less boring, which these changes are going to attempt to do.

If the player base for FFXI is too stupid to figure out how to kill bosses without PD and Embrava for crutches, then maybe they should actually learn how to use their characters.

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Originally Posted by Hashmalum

Embrava didn't put RDM out of business, addressing the other mage jobs' constant crippling MP shortage as well as making all enfeebles worthless put RDM out of business. We RDMs have no desire to mana-screw other jobs just so we can have our job as Refresh whore back; how about giving us some enfeebles that actually help with mob TP moves instead? You know, like we've been asking for over and over forever?

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I agree and +1'd because refresh was never a RDM issue, it was an issue for every other job that wanted it. That's why we became so popular over night and then so unattractive as soon as that issue was resolved.

I'm in support of what they are doing because both abilities that are getting nerfed because both abilities have boiled SMN and SCH down to a single function that Zerg crazy masses are stuck on. Why try anything else, when we can get a couple of SMNs and SCHs, use them for only 1 thing, and then do whatever content we want? Bunch of magic addicted users that don't want to think.

SE is offering diversity and people are spitting at it because if we have diversity, then we can't just get 'the best' solution to every problem the exact same way every time. If you think a ton of Rag DRKs and WARs that are hopped up on Embrava and PD is the best way to do everything, then you really did miss 90% of the game. It's not like this game is hard, it just requires you not to be a dumb ass and play with people who aren't dumb asses either. Actually play the game, instead of focusing on completing content by any means necessary and maybe people would complain less.

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Originally Posted by Sp1cyryan

The Dev team can not have it both ways.

You can not make a useful ability to allow rejected jobs access into an event and then take the ability back when it was the only thing getting said job into the event.

Do you really think after years it is time to adjust perfect defense? SMN is just about the most undesired job in this game without perfect defense. Its buffs are not worth the party spot, its DD is not worth a spot in the party, and besides that it really can not do anything no other job can not fulfill in a party setting.

Once more this returns astral flow to being just about worthless since Odin does worthless damage to NMs 99% of the time. But of course there will be no Odin buff. Astral flow for SMN can just be to kill the IT mob that aggroed you and hope Odin does not miss.

Maybe if you do not want players to rely on a small sect of jobs for a single strategy to do an event over and over again you should not make the monsters capable of going ape sh** and killing people with a single blow.

Do you really think players want to spend the time gathering together for Prov. Watcher to then go lose? What a waste of time is that? No one wants to go through all the previous work to then get to the end for a "sorry try it all again" that is just garbage. People will rely on whatever strategy produces the best results.

Take walk of echos for example. There is a simple reason people all go on pet jobs. You gave the mobs annoying/deadly TP moves. Do you really expect anything else? People want a way around the shenanigans.

YOU, the Dev team have gotten upset time and time again over players not playing the game the way you wish.

We have had

*"Throw more BLM at it"
Devs: Design around that.

*"Have the tank kite the NM"
Devs: Enfeebling resistance and draw in.

*"Have the BRD tank because it holds hate"
Devs: Nerf the enmity on Mazurka

*"Buff a bunch of DRKs to go souleater the NMs"
Devs: Give mobs souleater resistance.

*"Lets try to kill AV with Modius Veritas since we can not kill it since the souleater nerf"
Devs: Nerf Modius Veritas back to the stone age.

*"Throw MNKs and WARs at it"
Devs: Nerf Victory smite and Ukos Furry

*"Embrava so the DDs can be at their strongest and win more"
Devs: Nerf Embrava

*"This move rips our faces off lets try and provide cover to not rapidly wipe"
Devs: Nerf Perfect Defense

*"BSTs, the job people do not generally take to group events has a TH one above /THF and four below what a THF can get. Lets go solo Dynamis."
Devs: Nerf TH lower than if the BST subs THF.

So on and so forth.

Why is it when players find a way to win a harder event you say that is not acceptable and adjust it? Should you guys just put out a list telling us what are acceptable tactics and what are not?

Oh wait, I am sorry. You guys are the ones who put out the "hint" video for how to defeat AV that used RDMs spamming dispel, bind, etc for hate and then nerfed the hate from those spells.

The Dev team is too much.


In the end perfect defense should be just about as long as it is now.

In regards to embrava the durations should not be reduced by more than half the current duration, and either the haste or the regain should stay the same. I would imagine half duration with no regain and the same haste is sufficient a nerf as it is. You have a reputation for taking it too far when players are not winning the way you want them to as it is.

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Since everyone know i'm obsessed with Apoc i can afford it : SE nerfed the haste effect on it. And they nerfed haste status too.

I disapprove of giving Scholar a spell source of Refresh. That's the last bit of Red Mage territory that hasn't already been trampled. If you give that away, then what does Red Mage have left?

However, if the developers insist upon adding a Refresh effect to Embrava, then I suggest raising the level on Convert to 50 so that you cannot use it with Red Mage as a support job. Convert was always iconic of Red Mage, and I feel it should have remained exclusive to the job. If the developers were to make such a change, then maybe extra sources of Refresh would be more welcome.

Camate:
"Community Rep"

If that title is your job, then represent this community. 100% of the players are against this. This is not a nerf to a job, this is a nerf to the whole game and its players. We do not want this.

/sigh Though I am happy to see SCH get a troll nerf finally. I'll simply say this: Just nerf the ability. Not the enhancements it gets. IE: Lower regain amount, Low time, Heck even lower the haste. But don't destroy a useful ability that is a decent tactic in overcoming some tribulations. Umbral Marrows are already a whole lot of money. Lowering 2 useful tactics for beating him will make the price sky-rocket. Either do that or lower the effectiveness of their TP moves. But alas, Tanaka 2.0 comes into play I guess. As for PD make it last as long as PLD Invincible. Nothing more. Nothing less. I think we can all agree that's fair. So whether you take my advice or not. Up to you. But you guys already pissed off a lot of your fan base nerfing blinkers.

Embrava is an interpretation on the spell Brave... and Refresh has no role in that regard. If you want to "adjust" Embrava and PD just to keep the unwinnable events unwinnable, at least have honest, logical functions for spells instead of gimping them to save face.

Embrava can afford to lose the Regen effect. However, Embrava should be doing this: Increasing attack speed and increasing attack potency.

So, either keep the Haste+Regain as they are, toss the Regen, and call it a day, OR

Shorten the duration: 4min base (up to 10min with Perp+hands), reduce Haste potency to 30%, increase Attack by 5%, and increase Regain effect to 3tp/tic.

Embrava should be a rediculously potent spell... it requires a 2-hour ability to use it! Even if you reduce 2hr timers to 30min, the ability should still be dramatic.

Anything that reduces Embrava (or PD) further needs to be accompanied by a proportional reduction in the way/frequency mobs use the "I win" button.

I agree with nearly everything the players have said in this thread except for the comments about the final limit break.

I'm sorry, but you NEVER needed perfect defense to win it. Other battles may be unwinnable without PD, but this wasn't one of them.

I'm also severely concerned about the community reps responses so far. I'm not gonna shoot the messanger, but comments like "We'd like specific feedback" when you already have 10 pages worth, even after filtering out all the useless posts, tells me someone along the chain isn't paying attention.

Greetings everyone.

I have some feedback from the development team to share in regards to all the response we have been receiving about the adjustments to Perfect Defense and Embrava.

• Adjustments to Perfect Defense and Embrava
  At the current time, we would like to proceed with the changes as stated.
  
  The main idea behind the adjustments and the plan is as Producer Akihiko Matsui has mentioned:
  
  
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  Originally Posted by Akihiko_Matsui

  For both existing content and content to come in the future, I believe that conditions where special monsters are created for the sole purpose of counteracting Perfect Defense and Embrava is not desirable at all. The main idea behind the adjustments to Perfect Defense and Embrava is to correct the situation so it will not come to this.
  
  As a result we would like to make it so summoner and scholar can widen their range of play and usefulness via other elements. We understand that these adjustments might be somewhat of an inconvenience, but we appreciate your understanding.

  ---

  In other words, currently we have been giving consideration towards Perfect Defense and Embrava when making adjustments to content and monster strength. Likewise we have had to scale back new equipment stats and abilities for other jobs for the same reason.
  
  In the event that we were to continue at this pace, content and monsters would be created where the effects of Perfect Defense and Embrava would be ineffective, so in order to redraw the standard values for content and equipment we will be making these adjustments.
  
  We apologize for how late these adjustments are being made.
  
  
• Nyzul Isle Uncharted Area Survey Adjustments
  The reduction in the amount of Astrarium needed is a boon for reaching each of the main floors, but in addition to this we will be making the below adjustments in order to increase the chances of reaching these floors.
  *These adjustments have yet to be implemented on the Test Server
  
  • Increase the cap value for warping to ??? floor
    When randomly warping, the highest value will be increase from 9 to 11, and the average amount of floors that need to be clear in order to reach floor 100 will be reduced.
  • Adjustments to lamp response speed
    In order to prevent any impediments to the time attack element, we will be reducing the wait time.
    • After “same time” lamps have been operated, the wait time until they can be checked again will be reduced from 30 seconds to 15 seconds.
    • The time until “order” lamps judge the correct answer will be reduced from 12 seconds to 7 seconds.
  • Astraria adjustments
    Currently, the below changes have been made on the Test Server:
    
    <table width="400" border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1" align="center" class="ta01"><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="th01"><td width="45%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Astraria in Possession Before Implementation</td><td width="10%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7"></td><td width="45%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Astraria in Possession After Implementation</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3">0～4</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3">→</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3">0</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#f5fafb">5～9</td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb">→</td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb">1</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3">10～14</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3">→</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3">2</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#f5fafb">15～19</td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb">→</td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb">3</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3">20～24</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3">→</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3">4</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#f5fafb">25</td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb">→</td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb">5</td></tr></table>
    We will next be changing it to the below:
    
    <table width="400" border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1" align="center" class="ta01"><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="th01"><td width="45%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Astraria in Possession Before Implementation</td><td width="10%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7"></td><td width="45%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Astraria in Possession After Implementation</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3">0</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3">→</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3">0</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#f5fafb">1～6</td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb">→</td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb">1</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3">7～12</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3">→</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3">2</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#f5fafb">13～18</td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb">→</td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb">3</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3">19～24</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3">→</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3">4</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#f5fafb">25</td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb">→</td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb">5</td></tr></table>
    
• Changes to jobs that can equip Powder Boots
  As an experiment, we will be making this item equippable by all jobs.
  *This adjustment is not reflected in today’s Test Server update.
  
  
• Legion and Einherjar adjustments
  With the adjustments to Embrava and the scaling back of its boons to offensive capabilities, it will take longer to defeat enemies. In regards to Perfect Defense, with the effect duration reduction, it's important to defeat enemies quickly.
  
  We are closing the gap of the increased time variation by reducing an enemy's HP.
  
  We know that there are a variety of reasons as to why enemies need to be defeated in a shorter amount of time, and it varies by monster and content, and we believe it's very important to look into all of these individually.
  
  While there were many comments touching on this, we would like to keep this separate from the feedback regarding Perfect Defense and Embrava. (Please know we are not ignoring your suggestions, we just need to look into them one by one based on the topic.)

In the name of "balance," TP version of sublimation, {Can I have it?} Some mages use myrkr T.T

also... Kaustra really needs to be redone or seperated from Tabula Rasa.

Can you please consider the fact that RNGs require REGAIN and not haste, and certainly not refresh, so please make the spell "somewhat" useful for them again. Thanks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings everyone.

I have some feedback from the development team to share in regards to all the response we have been receiving about the adjustments to Perfect Defense and Embrava.

• Adjustments to Perfect Defense and Embrava
  At the current time, we would like to proceed with the changes as stated.
  
  The main idea behind the adjustments and the plan is as Producer Akihiko Matsui has mentioned:
  
  
  
  In other words, currently we have been giving consideration towards Perfect Defense and Embrava when making adjustments to content and monster strength. Likewise we have had to scale back new equipment stats and abilities for other jobs for the same reason.
  
  In the event that we were to continue at this pace, content and monsters would be created where the effects of Perfect Defense and Embrava would be ineffective, so in order to redraw the standard values for content and equipment we will be making these adjustments.
  
  We apologize for how late these adjustments are being made.
  
• Legion and Einherjar adjustments
  With the adjustments to Embrava and the scaling back of its boons to offensive capabilities, it will take longer to defeat enemies. In regards to Perfect Defense, with the effect duration reduction, it's important to defeat enemies quickly.
  
  We are closing the gap of the increased time variation by reducing an enemy's HP.
  
  We know that there are a variety of reasons as to why enemies need to be defeated in a shorter amount of time, and it varies by monster and content, and we believe it's very important to look into all of these individually.
  
  While there were many comments touching on this, we would like to keep this separate from the feedback regarding Perfect Defense and Embrava. (Please know we are not ignoring your suggestions, we just need to look into them one by one based on the topic.)

---

This makes incredibly little sense. The development team would have to reduce future equipment statistics based upon a game tactic that not everyone employs; effectively limiting the entire player base for a tactic not everyone uses? Yet again the development team's vision of embrava and a game mechanic is being shoved down the player base's throat when nearly everyone has displayed their disagreement with the complete change of the spell.

Why can there be no compromise with a reduction of current enhancement potencies, or an explanation as to why there can be absolutely no compromise? And why are the adjustments to legion and einherjar being asked to be talked about separately? They've been introduced in the same topic for a reason. Because they are being adjusted due to these abilities. The players have said several times that reducing monster HP is not the problem with these monsters. The team says that each monster differs, but that's not really the case. Their area of effect abilities and spells are simply too strong and wide, that is what needs adjusting; not maximum HP.

I for one am getting very tired of the development team simply going ahead with their plans even after a majority of the community states that it should not be carried out. This inability to compromise with the player base will likely mean cancellations of subscriptions from many players, as this is certainly not the first time this has happened, and this definitely reinforces that it will not be the last.

On a separate note, at least Neo Nyzul Isle is being adjusted further for those that hadn't completed that content, because it certainly needed to be. Having lamps produce a delay so large in the first place was ludicrous.

Can't complain about the Nyzul Isle changes but still what a poor excuse behind the nerf ...

If that's the reason then Kaustra will need some form of adjustment to it , so that scholar actually will have a use for Tabula Rasa . Sadly you forget about the ranged jobs that don't need haste or refresh ?!

The current layout for the new embrava is pointless it will just be another spell hardly used because let's face it who really does need refresh when it's so readily available to us with gear and the spell itself

I don't envy you Camate being the bearer of bad news but maybe the devs do need a slap upside their heads to make them see its not what we want ....

But then we're ignored all the time so I can't say I'm holding out any hope

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Camate

In other words, currently we have been giving consideration towards Perfect Defense and Embrava when making adjustments to content and monster strength. Likewise we have had to scale back new equipment stats and abilities for other jobs for the same reason.

In the event that we were to continue at this pace, content and monsters would be created where the effects of Perfect Defense and Embrava would be ineffective, so in order to redraw the standard values for content and equipment we will be making these adjustments.

---

But do the devs understand that they're going to have to do a whole lot more than reduce monster HP to make things truly balanced? We're not losing wars of attrition where our healers are running out of MP before the monster runs out of HP. We're getting vaporized by nuclear bombs. Adjusting monster abilities should be the first step, but it seems as though it's going to be the last simply because it's the hardest. No player nerf should be coming without monster adjustments already figured out and ready to be implemented.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lollerblades

But then we're ignored all the time so I can't say I'm holding out any hope

---

It's not really that we're ignored, they don't want any ideas from the player base. They just want to know do you like it or not. If enough people are against it, we MIGHT think about a sideways way to adjust it. That's what the forum is really for. They may as well keep it limited to a no comments forum and put a like or dislike button next to the updates. FFXI would be much different if they listened to the actual ideas from the community. Granted, most posts on here aren't worth much anyways so I wouldn't want to have the job of sifting through the crap to find a needle.

SE nerfs embrava in Nyzle Isle meaning

you will attack 175% slower (or you'll have less healing power and will have to wait for brd buffs)
you will lose the abilty to one shot mobs with tp gained from embrava
with the lower haste and lack of regain, it'll take 2x longer to kill normal mobs at least.

Simply put kill all floors/leader floor will become bigger time sinks

Now there is a 15% increase in floor jumps which is pretty nice but is totally offset by the above things and then some.

Imo Nyzle isle is gonna become more gear dependent and less accesible (pple can't just lvl SCH and be useful) and alot more luck based since Order, Big kill all floor and tough leader floor will end more runs now.

Honestly, for those that haven't got the gear yet i'd try and spam it before the update.

I'm seeing this as them actually listening (to a point). They are adjusting piece by piece the embrava/pd'd events, so I'm thinking that patience will do well.
I'm holding out hope that this will be a return of the "Come as your best geared job" as opposed to "Come as one of the 5 jobs in the game".

I dont think the devs realize that we arent doing this strat because we want to, it's because we've been backed into a wall with no other way out and now they want to lock the door, to be honest, i hate being dependant on 2hrs to do things. It was nice back in the day when shit could be difficult like wyrms and JoL (atleast at first) but still be defeatable by a group of skilled and well geared players without everyone sitting around for damn 2hrs. Tiamat "Could" truck you with MS, but a smart PLD would just use sentinel to counteract, whereas idiots would get trucked. Just shit like that instead of oh hey i'm a taru and if i sit within 30' of this mob i'll get one shotted when the mob perspires...