Perfect defense / embrava unbalance

*Tabula Rasa
The effects of the white magic "Embrava" will be adjusted as follows:
**Duration: Reduced from 5 minutes to 90 seconds.
**Haste Effect: Reduced to 15% + 1% for each 20 enhancing skill. Maximum of +25% at 500 enhancing skill.
**Regain Effect: Changed to Refresh effect (the #/tick is the same as before, based on skill).

worst part of it

Yes, the fact we don't get a few extra TP every few seconds is terrible compared to the fact the ability lost nearly 3/4ths of its duration and the ability to function in any event as more than a midfight zerg buff.

mages potentially get more mp from empyrean WS's with regain than they would with refresh which only benfits mages. with regain melee and mages benefit

And thus, this is a nerf. The duration of the effect is much more devastating than the loss of a few bits of TP when you take into account in most cases your using Embrava the Regain was not all to important anyways, admittedly it may have made the difference between say, a 5 hit build or a 6 hit build, but at the same time, the Haste & Regain being toned down is understandable, those are its effects & hurt it enough, removing a ton of its duration just makes it worthless because its either a somewhat short zerg, or its worthless to use.

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Originally Posted by Iakothm

You do too have to pay for the game to post here. You also have to actually be actively playing your character to post too.

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Last time I cancelled my content ID was in february. The forums let me keep posting until august, when some billing change suddenly made the forums realize that I shouldn't be having access anymore.

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Originally Posted by Iakothm

and how long is "awhile"

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Roughly six months, it seems.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

And thus, this is a nerf. The duration of the effect is much more devastating than the loss of a few bits of TP when you take into account in most cases your using Embrava the Regain was not all to important anyways, admittedly it may have made the difference between say, a 5 hit build or a 6 hit build, but at the same time, the Haste & Regain being toned down is understandable, those are its effects & hurt it enough, removing a ton of its duration just makes it worthless because its either a somewhat short zerg, or its worthless to use.

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regaian was the best part of this ability like i said regain benefits both mages and melee, melee get to spam Ws and mages if MP is needed can get them back from various WS without having to be in range

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Originally Posted by Ezikiel

regaian was the best part of this ability like i said regain benefits both mages and melee, melee get to spam Ws and mages if MP is needed can get them back from various WS without having to be in range

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Haste was the best part, Regain helped. But the nerf that killed it was the one to duration, not the one to potency. If it had the same duration without Regain, it would still be awesome, because it would free up two bard songs, and would only need to be applied twice to fulltime for 30 minutes (which is the duration of most relevant events).

I think as long as you don't lose your login cookie you can continue posting here even after your account has been shut off.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

Nothing to do with people being jealous either. The simple fact you contradicted the subject of the thread shows it was mostly pointless, and likely an attempt at gloating about something I am 99.9% sure no one cares about.

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People care about embra and PD nerf yes. Hence the thread. The whole point was to warn SE that nerfing PD means the event is no longer doable, and not surprisingly, ADL/legion are no longer doable or at least not with the same winrate. Inbefore QQ IcankillegionwithoutPD and IcallkillADLwithoutPD. I mean at least they did nerf legion mobs's HP right ?

Also, people care because 8500 views

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

People care about embra and PD nerf yes. Hence the thread. The whole point was to warn SE that nerfing PD means the event is no longer doable, and not surprisingly, ADL/legion are no longer doable or at least not with the same winrate. Inbefore QQ IcankillegionwithoutPD and IcallkillADLwithoutPD. I mean at least they did nerf legion mobs's HP right ?

Also, people care because 8500 views

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lol... what?

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Here is an example of why embrava broke the game ; ADL is not killable without perfect defense, we have yet to see a reported kill, even with a complete alliance of 18.


Here is a video showing why perfect defense is so unbalanced, as a mob that can't be killed with 18 suddenly becomes a joke with 3.

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Also am i the only one who finds it funny that Pimpchans says "here is why embrava is broken" and than goes on to talk about perfect defense?

Edit: the 8000+ views are because they care about PD and Embrava not because they give 1 flying **** about your stupid sig.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

People care about embra and PD nerf yes. Hence the thread. The whole point was to warn SE that nerfing PD means the event is no longer doable, and not surprisingly, ADL/legion are no longer doable or at least not with the same winrate. Inbefore QQ IcankillegionwithoutPD and IcallkillADLwithoutPD. I mean at least they did nerf legion mobs's HP right ?

Also, people care because 8500 views

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

Nothing to do with people being jealous either. The simple fact you contradicted the subject of the thread shows it was mostly pointless, and likely an attempt at gloating about something I am 99.9% sure no one cares about.

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You contradict yourself yet again too... earlier you said its impossible to kill ADL without PD.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

They didn't do it or you would have seen it done in a video, it's just braging on video games forums.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

You have killed it in your dreams.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

I can't kill ADL anymore lol ? Didn't know that. At worst I can only get 45 M every two days instead of 90M. Not a problem really. Realistically though the marrow price will double haha.

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This means either your so selfcentered you believe only you are capable of killing ADL without PD, or you contradicted what you said earlier because before, ADL without PD was impossible, and now ADL is possible without ADL, you just make less.

You made a thread on a relevant subject which people care about, which is a good reason to make one. At the same time, you address people with the same stupid "what you say is impossible because I cant see you do it" attitude, and contradicted yourself on that later by saying you apparently can do it, you will just make less money, and now are back to the "its going to be unkillable" side.

Its funny you try to say people are jealous when they have a valid point that it does in a way look like all your doing is trying to show off a sig no one cares about.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

You contradict yourself yet again too... earlier you said its impossible to kill ADL without PD.This means either your so selfcentered you believe only you are capable of killing ADL without PD, or you contradicted what you said earlier because before, ADL without PD was impossible, and now ADL is possible without ADL, you just make less.

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I know you are a bad troll and all you is post count +1, until the other part stops responding, but really, I don't contradict my self anywhere. ADL is not winnable without PD, and ADL is no longer winable at the same rate is what I said.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

I know you are a bad troll and all you is post count +1, until the other part stops responding, but really, I don't contradict my self anywhere. ADL is not winnable without PD, and ADL is no longer winable at the same rate is what I said.

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LOL please stop trolling your own thread.

He is killable without PD, you just are too scared to try. If 12 people can do it, I'm sure the 18 man ADL groups will have zero trouble getting a decent win rate without PD.

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Originally Posted by Taint2

LOL please stop trolling your own thread.

He is killable without PD, you just are too scared to try. If 12 people can do it, I'm sure the 18 man ADL groups will have zero trouble getting a decent win rate without PD.

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I'm going to actually side a little with Pchan here... Unless you can provide me with some evidence of a Successful non-PD ADL Kill that didn't end with 90% of the alliance dead and everyone screaming like they just killed AV in 2007, I'm going to contend that ADL is going to be next to/almost impossible without PD.

I mean sure, You could get really lucky and win every so often, But without PD, It'd be so luck based that You'd have a better chance of reaching floor 100 in NNI with PUP, BLM, RNG than killing it with any respectable Win %.

As it stands, With our group, 1 Party (The best) Get PD, and we have a leftover that doesn't. By the first split, everyone in the secondary party is usually dead except maybe a THF who happened to Evade one of the TP moves. So while we're not completely losing PD, The idea that the event is all right without it is insane.

So to wrap up this.

Is ADL Doable without PD? Yes, It'd be significantly luck based and so unreliable that if it was the only method, Marrows would likely drop off the face of the earth.

Is ADL Still going to be PD Zerged? Yes.

There really is no way around it, ADL is a luck based content that was stupid to begin with and had terrible implementation and design, PD Just helped groups find a way around the idiocy of the Dumb luck system and Game-Over TP moves long enough to manage a kill now and again.

While on the subject, SagaSinger's drop rate is unreasonably low, I've probably farmed 50+ Marrows with my LS and never seen one, In all of their time doing it (before I joined), Only 1 has dropped, and thats with about 15 Completed 99 Relics or more...

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Originally Posted by Taint2

LOL please stop trolling your own thread.

He is killable without PD, you just are too scared to try. If 12 people can do it, I'm sure the 18 man ADL groups will have zero trouble getting a decent win rate without PD.

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Come on Taint you know this isn't true. ADL isn't particularly hard but he does have stupid powerful moves that him and his clones do at the same time. Those moves have 30~40 foot ranges and will hit everyone in the engagement area. And while dynamis assault is a joke, Implosion, Tera Slash and Oblivion Smash are all wipes. There isn't just one moving going off, he will always split into two at a minimum (three if you brought him under 40%). The very first thing they do is a synch'd TP move, double Oblivion Smash's, double Tera Slash's / ect. Assuming your survive the first one, a few seconds later when your melee's give him TP he'll do another set of double TP moves, you won't be surviving those without PD.

His HP isn't even that high, three really powerful DD's can burn him down, if they can live long enough to do so.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

I know you are a bad troll and all you is post count +1, until the other part stops responding, but really, I don't contradict my self anywhere. ADL is not winnable without PD, and ADL is no longer winable at the same rate is what I said.

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you contradict yourself in this post alone lol...

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

Also, people care because 8500 views

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No one cares, you're a punchline.

the nerf will come with shorter recast and the new 2H, all you'll need is time your astral conduit shock squall right before PD off

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

stuff

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Taint is trying too hard, just because pchan posts something he must prove it wrong. yet fails at it because no proof. There is so many things that could go wrong w/o PD.

The only way is stun locking. Things that are guarranted to END your run ( those WILL happen because shock squal is not a consistant duration):

Breakga; can use it very early.

Tera slash: can killmultiple DDS at once (~50% chance). it is NOT frontal aoe it is aoe (DD from behind can die to it).

implosion: impossible to counter or stun.

tripple split if you kill too fast (likely with 18): 3 of the same TP move, unstunnable, at the same time. Dont tell me you can survive this. he can do triple tera slash...

Things that will likely end the run, but can be countered:

-ramuh killed, ramuh break'd, ramuh slept (takes 5 sec to resummon, ADL does 2 TP move in 5sec). avatars do not get PD, they will die constantly.

-death.
-slowga: strongger than haste/hastega, probably 30% slow. prety much cancels 2xmarches.

- synchronized spells and tp moves at low HP; aga4 do 1k dmg aoe. all this TP moves have additional effects (gravity, strong paralyze, dispel, knockback).

- dynamis assault (add effect break, see pchan's video in 1st post. wasted 15 sec of PD waiting for stona). Does it right away.

I should mention that a stun-locking strategy will no stun lock it in the first 40% because if you do it will split at exactly 59% instead of ~40%. Also you will not use embrava now (what kind of people need embrava AND PD anyway lol).

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Originally Posted by saevel

His HP isn't even that high, three really powerful DD's can burn him down, if they can live long enough to do so.

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his stats are the same as NQ DL(same HP) untill low HP where he gets access to tier 4 -ga/death/implosion. NQ DL can also piss you off whenever he wants if he wants to spam tera slash/ back to back tier 3-ga. He can also triple split (or double split , I forgot) if you kill too slow. I witnessed recently a bunch of gimp pt made of BSTs/THFs/WHM taking almost 30 minutes to kill it and it kept tripling.

( we wiped 2 times in 500 pops due to all DDs dieing to tera slash).

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

While on the subject, SagaSinger's drop rate is unreasonably low, I've probably farmed 50+ Marrows with my LS and never seen one, In all of their time doing it (before I joined), Only 1 has dropped, and thats with about 15 Completed 99 Relics or more...

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we are like 3/400. FFXIDB has it at 61/5972 lol (1%). It's ok because it sucks like all non emy/relic weapons.

Pchan you still haven't answered anyone when asked why you are crying about the nerfs when you made a topic calling out for them, so with that been said i would like to know why ?

if you read carefully most of the posts about the nerf aren't about the nerf of PD and embrava itself, but about the lack of adjustements on the contents that need them (ADL Nyzul and Legion). And that's what we are discussing now: ADL unchagned, every group will kill one less clone on average.

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Originally Posted by saevel

Come on Taint you know this isn't true. ADL isn't particularly hard but he does have stupid powerful moves that him and his clones do at the same time. Those moves have 30~40 foot ranges and will hit everyone in the engagement area. And while dynamis assault is a joke, Implosion, Tera Slash and Oblivion Smash are all wipes. There isn't just one moving going off, he will always split into two at a minimum (three if you brought him under 40%). The very first thing they do is a synch'd TP move, double Oblivion Smash's, double Tera Slash's / ect. Assuming your survive the first one, a few seconds later when your melee's give him TP he'll do another set of double TP moves, you won't be surviving those without PD.

His HP isn't even that high, three really powerful DD's can burn him down, if they can live long enough to do so.

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LOL....what?

We are not the only group to do it without PD, I am just the only person dumb enough to post on this forum.

No way have I said its 100%, far from it. But Chanclan says its impossible when its a fact it is not.

It is also not something we go out of our way to do since we generally have 2+ SMNs, we just do it when bored after doing the first 2-3 and COR reset is unlucky.


Karbuncle - nobody died when we did it. I'm not argueing it was luck or whatever, I just argueing Chanclan saying its impossible, which is far from the truth since we did it. There are other groups that say the same thing. Also our none PD partys rarely die, earthen armor/scherzo on our mules keep them alive most every fight.

Chanclan - what are you using to make your youtube videos?

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

3 man ADL

Here is a video showing why perfect defense is so unbalanced, as a mob that can't be killed with 18 suddenly becomes a joke with 3.

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Brilliant how you're complaining how ADL needs to be nerfed with the alex nerf, but you post this to show you can kill it with 3 ppl. According to this 3 man video, after the PD nerf, you'll need 1 SMN and 3 MNKs instead. Definately needs a nerf, way to go!

Yup nothing happened you got it. SE has no clue.