Windurst region fix.

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Originally Posted by cidbahamut

What in the world are you talking about and why did you quote me?

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umm I was replying to you. >.>;; I simplely was trying to fix my errors with a retype and would have added the part you said was better. So both would be present.

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Originally Posted by Rosina

umm I was replying to you. >.>;; I simplely was trying to fix my errors with a retype and would have added the part you said was better. So both would be present.

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You could have fooled me. It didn't seem related at all, but that may have been because it was almost completely incomprehensible. Heck, I can barely figure out what you're trying to say in the post I'm quoting.

Cid
Raist already made is point of why he posts.

His point of view summed up is "this change is a waste of time" Thats it. All his posting can sum up that he simply does not "get it" he can't see past his own nose.

Before: a player in windurst had little to no trouble finding sweett spots to level in, geting low level fame quests done. Now, a few quest need high level assistence. He refuses to see a difference because he started late in the game. He is from the "net" generation where info was online.

Windurst is a nation nearly completely cut off from the "typical" ffxi path people layed out. Most of the ffxi player base on garuda was sandy then bastok, then windurst. Infact Sandy had the sarutabaruta region when i logged on.

See as a windurst player you had to expernt with leveling due to design of the zones, the type of mobs that spawned, and the spread of the mobs. Windirst areas are some of the most open and bigger zones in game. Sandy had forest bastok had 2 large hills so mobs around these

areas. Windy USED TO have the ruins and the underbelly for the better leveling. Plus ALOT of quests took place with in these areas. As a new/ returning player picky windy. You pretty much NOW have a limited play area to pick from. You pretty much level in east sarutabaruta then canyon (which sucks cuz 10-14 u can get lost easy in that pass) then try to level in the pennisula which has the worst lay out the the low level section.

As a player you wante best kill/rest ratio. In windy you run around most looking for said page mobs then you do killing them. What I used to do was level around west sarutabaruta then @ 5, I would go to the tower located north of Giddeus. The was a large square room with you smaller rooms on the left and right side. Mobs were spread out enough for quick kills, but not enough to gang bang you. And you can rest on the platforms w/o too much aggro.

After that I would then make my way to valkrum dunes. Now that has changed. And i dislike it.

A new player will not like seeing a open zone fo from level 5 to level 80. in 1 door way, infact that is a HUGE complain in ffxiv. Zone level ranges are all over the place. That isn't how rpg or mmorog are run. That does confuse a player. I'[ve had returning players feel it was retarded. And here is the kicker, WHY was it changed? There was no reason. To my understanding no weather takes place in the ruins. So trials are pointless. No high level would want to go to windy to level, so that is out. I personally from 04-2012 have never seen a ton of ppl use these areas.

I'm not even demanding it get changed, If people do use these areas I can see, but i personally do. I'm also voicing my opinion on a chamge that 1) was never made mention from the player base. 2) never was needed in the first place.

Honesy raist, you nd this change useless, why post. Stop trying to force correct ppl with false notions.

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Originally Posted by cidbahamut

You could have fooled me. It didn't seem related at all, but that may have been because it was almost completely incomprehensible. Heck, I can barely figure out what you're trying to say in the post I'm quoting.

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ok. Let me just type out in simple sentences.
I wanted to reply you, to say, that I could not fit everything I wanted to type.
If i could have fit everything, I would have added the part you pointed out.

Is that easier to read? (i'm not being snarky, I'm asking because I'm trying to work on typing.)

ok, let me make something a bit clearer. It isn't so much my typing sucks, but how my thoughts come across. I have a hard time taking my thoughts and putting them out there. Whether through type, or though physical writing.

I have to section my thought out in a single sentence bullet points, and try to make it readable. This is how my mind works, and how I've learned to cope with it. My thoughts race faster then i can type, so my typing finger goes a mile a mintue just to keep up. That is why I simply said I had ADD, because that is a "tic" of it. And since I figured that ppl have it, it would have been a simple "oh, ok" but ya, that Never happen.

Ps this was with or with meds, always something i had an issue with. In irony, i can type/wrote poetry no issue. So i may just need to write in my poetic style so it easier to read. And not saying it as an excuse, just explaing why it may be hard to read but I am trying to do better.

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Originally Posted by Rosina

ok. Let me just type out in simple sentences.
I wanted to reply you, to say, that I could not fit everything I wanted to type.
If i could have fit everything, I would have added the part you pointed out.

Is that easier to read? (i'm not being snarky, I'm asking because I'm trying to work on typing.)

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Yes, that is easier to read. It's direct and to the point. Kudos on taking time to clean up your spelling/grammar as well. It's very much appreciated and makes reading your posts much easier to read.

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Originally Posted by Trisscar

I do not know whatever it is you're trying to say, but I'm sure you're probably wrong anyhow.

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this is by far the most unessicary thing to do on here. Please be adult and NOT do this.

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Originally Posted by cidbahamut

Yes, that is easier to read. It's direct and to the point. Kudos on taking time to clean up your spelling/grammar as well. It's very much appreciated and makes reading your posts much easier to read.

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Ok, so type it like i do my poerty. Got it.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

Think of it this way, most areas gradually move up in levels as you move through them. Like with Inner Horutoto Ruins, the cards start at 2~3 and end up in the 8~9s, level wise its a start of lv4~5 ending in the upper 40s but they move up as you go. The GoV mobs are not as gentle, they go from level 10 mobs, to level 85 mobs, by simply moving behind a simple door. I am under the idea that if your playing Final Fantasy, part of what you do is explore, going behind a door to see whats on the other side is expected, however... finding something that is 8 times the level of what you were just fighting and yourself, isn't so expected.

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That seems a reasonable point at face value...but if you are doing the research you would be aware of the threat and if you are going through a process of trial and error to learn your way around, you would quickly learn that that section of the map is not good for you right now, just like you might just as easily stumble into a nasty situarion in Giddeus and die and learn not to go in there just yet. The fundamental principles are still the same---either you know in advance, or you learn by trial and error.

Besides, that isn't the argument that was being made. The argument being put forth was that a new low level player would rage quit because they ran into a mob they could not handle. This type of scenario could play out for that type of player at any time from level 1 to 75 in the past, depending on where they explored aimlessly and at what job/level they are against the mobs they came across--that still applies just as well from level 1-99 now. So, it is a bit weak of an excuse.

Even so....they should learn from the mistake, and try something different. There are other paths that can be taken. The issue of making this change needs to have the pros and cons weighed. As it stands now, people from Windurst have obviously been finding ways to level, as evidence by the new players coming up through Genkais and such needing help at the higher levels. Each time I've searched the areas, I have always found level 90+ peoplle using the areas, but rarely find lower level players there in comparison. I'm sure this varies from server to server, but it is one of the things SE would likely want to analyze if they were to consider this concern....who stands to win/lose, and to what degree. What is wrong with bringing these points into light?

At present, it would appear (from what I've seen) it would penalize higher level players by denying them access to specific game mechanics for that region, while providing a minimal gain for the lower level players. On both sides of the equation, low level players can now and still could seek alternative camps currently close by, while higher level players would no longer have any options in that region. Lower level players still currently have a much wider range of areas to choose from than higher level players do by comparison when it comes to taking advantage of specific game mechanics in these older regions. That is an important point to be considered, and likely one of the driving points behind them making the changes in the first place---players were asking SE to make these older regions useful for higher level players, they did, and players appear to be using the new options added.

As for the point about the xp path laid out for players....I have seen this evolving gradually since WotG came out, and there really isn't a set path to follow, never really was--there was simply popular paths, but those have shifted over the years as the game has evolved with new features/options at one's disposal now. At various points, several directions open for players....it is the player's choice in which way they go. Before, yes...they may have had more variety in certain areas, and those may have been reduced for those areas--but that deoesn't meen they are out of options. They in fact still have numerous options available to them. They are not locked into JUST that one alternative path that pushed them to the Canyon, that is just one fairly obvious route. Rosina herself just brought up Amaryllis tower again:

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What I used to do was level around west sarutabaruta then @ 5, I would go to the tower located north of Giddeus. The was a large square room with you smaller rooms on the left and right side. Mobs were spread out enough for quick kills, but not enough to gang bang you. And you can rest on the platforms w/o too much aggro.

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That tower is still usable for lower levels in much the same fashion, it just may be laid out a bit differently now is all (I can't recall just how it was laid out 4-7 years ago, but I DID explore it earlier in this thread and found that the section she referenced is currently NOT full of 80+ mobs, but rather varying clumps of mobs bracketted from level 10 through 18. If the mobs were lower in the past, than that is a change that one needs to work around by going somewhere else for the levels the may have gone there in the past. The trick is to investigate a bit to discover how it has altered....perhaps it is simply a matter of going into a different tower now? I found one such section that had mobs up to level 7, and ther are targets in the Saras that go to level 10...just saying, there are options available for the levels that have been put into question in the thread that do not put players in such dire jeopardy as is being portrayed here.

The point that keeps getting overlooked time and time again, is that when SE made this change (made in part because they were lobbied to do something to bring players back to the older regions), they were careful to try to section them off and also made adjustments to preserve options for the lower level players. They didn't simply convert an entire zone to an elite campground and shut out the lower levels....they tried to keep things balanced.

One can argue how well they did/didn't balance it....but you can't say they completely shut out lower level players from having a viable path for leveling. What appears to be goin on here is more that there are those that either are not aware of the options (for whatever reason), or are aware but are refusing to branch out into the new direction the game has taken and are clinging on to times past that are simply are no more. Either way, this should foster a spirit of exploration/experimentation to find one's way, just the same as we all had to do in the past. Sure....some will make mistakes, sometimes fail miserably....but they should be learning from those mistakes and move on. What appears to be happening here, is some are falling into the rutt of trying to teach and old dog new tricks. That is quite frankly, more of a personal issue than a game design issue.

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Originally Posted by Rosina

Cid
Raist already made is point of why he posts.

His point of view summed up is "this change is a waste of time" Thats it. All his posting can sum up that he simply does not "get it" he can't see past his own nose.

Before: a player in windurst had little to no trouble finding sweett spots to level in, geting low level fame quests done. Now, a few quest need high level assistence. He refuses to see a difference because he started late in the game. He is from the "net" generation where info was online.

Windurst is a nation nearly completely cut off from the "typical" ffxi path people layed out. Most of the ffxi player base on garuda was sandy then bastok, then windurst. Infact Sandy had the sarutabaruta region when i logged on.

See as a windurst player you had to expernt with leveling due to design of the zones, the type of mobs that spawned, and the spread of the mobs. Windirst areas are some of the most open and bigger zones in game. Sandy had forest bastok had 2 large hills so mobs around these

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Actually, Rosina, I never said it was a waste of time. What I actually said was:

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Quite simply, the changes are not needed, and will drastically upset the structure of what the game has evolved into. You might want to take some time to review the FOV/GOV lists for those zones. They are laid out quite well to get you leveled up in a very streamlined fasion, especially with the double xp tweak.

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If you are going to try to appear to quote someone, it's best if you actually quote them. If you were trying to paraphrase, need to make sure you give an accurate representation of what was actully stated. Otherwise, be prepared for rebuttal.

The Net Generation? If I remember correctly, I am considerably older than you and pre-date the Net Generation (I remember when TSR-80's and Apple IIe's were in schools, system/36, i386, the fanfare over i486 and later Pentium 90's), and I followed the game from early on....read printed guides in the BAM stores and had notes laid out for how I was going to get started and all long before I even bought the game. I was simply holding out for it to become cheaper to play (which, unfortunately never happened).Don't know where you're drawing the assumption that I'm from the Net Generation.

And, from what I've seen going on, apparently Windy citizens are not running into a lot of trouble finding ways to level, perhaps they are simply doing something different than you, IDK.

That quest in question does not require higher level help. That's just one of the easy tactics that can be deployed, just like people may have opted for in the past. There are alternative ways to get sneak/inv applied so you can progress through that dangerous section....restated because it doesn't seem to be sticking.

Nations continually take over rival nation's areas, so not sure just what you're getting at there...but Windy has never been cut off from a traditional leveling path. Each nation had and still has it's own popular paths....Bastokans didn't simply run to Sandy to level and such because that was THE path to take. People from Bastok and Sandy still experimented and find their way just the same as players from Windy. If Windy's was so terrible, more people might have switched because of it...some may have changed nations over frustration with Windy (not necessarily levelling), but many stayed for various reasons. There are other reasons people might chose a starting nation outside of how they were going to level, the grind was more or less just an accepted evil in the game regardless of where you were from.

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Originally Posted by Rosina

And here is the kicker, WHY was it changed? There was no reason. To my understanding no weather takes place in the ruins. So trials are pointless. No high level would want to go to windy to level, so that is out. I personally from 04-2012 have never seen a ton of ppl use these areas.

I'm not even demanding it get changed, If people do use these areas I can see, but i personally do. I'm also voicing my opinion on a chamge that 1) was never made mention from the player base. 2) never was needed in the first place.

Honesy raist, you nd this change useless, why post. Stop trying to force correct ppl with false notions.

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Some theories on why they made the change have been stated in various posts by several people in the thread already.

Not all trials require weather to be present. People may have specific reasons for choosing a certain target/zone for a trial. For instance, I choose some certain beetles for a Vermin Trial because it allowed me to skillup some crafts off their drops.

I have seen higher level players in the ruins...and levelling is not the only reason people go to a zone.

If you've never seen a lot of people using these zones over 8 years....then why are you so vehemently lobbying for them to change them back? If no one is using them, why does it matter? This statement alone so greatly undermines this thread.....

Actually, the concept of a training area/event was brought forward by players and discussed in length on various forums. There was also a lot of chatter about making the old zones usable again, and requests for more options for post 75 for various reasons, amongst them skillups. SE may have done this in part to knock out several birds with one stone.

I never stated that it was pointless to change things. In the scope of the challenges presented, I said it wasn't needed with various clarifications, among them: adjustments have been made to offset issues created by the change (granted, it may still need some tweaking in some spots), it does not prevent access to content as was being presented, and changing it would disrupt access to key elements in the game that actually are being used now that the game has evolved past 75 cap.

If you have every right to express your opinion, so do I. You just seem to feel it was an unecessary change, others disagree. You feel it would be better for them to change it back, others disagree. Others here have been in opposition of you in this thread, yet you've just chosen to continually lash out at me and not them for some reason, and it is often so out there that it calls for a rebuttal/correction. That's just how things work in a point/counterpoint discussion. Guess I'm just the first one to actually try to verify the claims, and that rubbed you the wrong way, IDK....but it is getting a little old. Yo don't like when people go after you personally, so we do you insist on doing so to me when I have not?

I'm not trying to "force correct" anyone with "false notions". I've corrected misinformation, and just happened to put forth an opposing point of view that for some reason just jazzes you up. If you have the right to post information as facts whether you have vetted the information, I have every right to actually look into them and correct the record where fault is found. Facts are facts, it's either right or wrong by definition. Stating the truth after something was assumed in error is not "force correcting" someone....it is simply a correction. If you then insist on challenging the correction that has been sourced or actually checked on in game...be prepared for further rebuttal. That is not cramming it down your throat...that is a response to your challenge. If you don't like being corrected like that...might want to make sure you have the facts right in the first place.

TLDR:
A lot of things you keep bringing up have been gone over in the thread already, sometimes repeatedly--they keep coming back, because you either keep bringing it up or are misrepresenting things. IDK if some key things just are not getting through to you somehow, or you just aren't reading some posts thoroughly....but a LOT of this back and forth could have been avoided if you would have just accepted the basic truths that you did not give a clear and fair presentation of the facts, and there are people here that have just as strong an opinion on the topic as you, but just happen to have a different view on the topic than you. If you are going to be so openly opinionated and not double check your claims/posts, be prepared for opposition/correction. Don't challenge those corrections if you don't have the facts to support said challenge, or be prepared for a rebuttal. Every time a post is made in opposition to one of your posts is NOT a personal attack on you, sometimes it is just a challenge/correction of the elements presented in your post....so please, stop with the personal attacks against those that have not been attacking you personally.

Raist you infact have stated that you see this as a pointless suggestion. And continue you "find" evidence to baxk it up. I know not all trial require weather. But point blank mobs found in ruins dotted around windurst are also located in other regions, so you would not need the ruins.

Also the mobs in the tower north of Giddeus pre change was solo-able from 5-13. Also Raist by net generation, i didn't mean age, I meant playing on ffxi. When I started we just played the game, did trial and error. We didn't do the "look on wiki" stuff.

Also Raist, you don't need to constently correct people when you CLEARLY "don't get it". You started ffxi later then I did. So you are not really in the know. You only know what wiki taught you. Which hate to say, in some cases have proven false.

Wiki is user created, so cases of inaccurate data will happen. It also can be freely changed by anyone with an account. So realistically anyone can write anything and state it as fact.

Also raist, since you seem to not read my post at all cept what you FEEL are inaccurate statements. You would be surprised to know that the quests in question NEVER needed assistence from anything. And there is something you forget, you need tabs inorder to put book sneak/invis. Did you ever thing or grasp that a person may not have tabs?

You are not grasping any concept then what wiki or the norm tells you. That is what I'm trying to get across to you. You shouldn't assume anything. Not everyone follows wiki/ the norm like a net gen zombie.

I personally perfer more free form play instead of going by the apparent ffxi bible. To really share an opinion about this though. You would have to physically experience it for yourself. You shouldn't comment on what you assume you see. I never had an issue leveling around windy before. Now i am. Its not really the difficaulty. It is on the fact that I'm running more then killing. Which for me gets dull fast. Mobs in the zones are too spread out.

I never stated any reply here was a personal attack outside the one triss made. But what i find a bit pathetic, is you feel that i have no "good enough" reason to suggest this. I think that is a rude statement.
Honestly, by your stance, no reason no matter how well thought out would ever be good enough for you. And really, why defend the mob level increase in what was low-mid level areas? Is it not the point of leveling to explore FARTHER from the city?

Also how does it make any sence to have mobs start out from low-mid level, you open a door and they are all of a sudden high level. To me that is silly. It does turn a player off. Just read ffxiv forums in the past or old reviews. That was a major complaint. Mob levels show flow naturally through out the zones/regions and dungeons. NOT have sudden "omgwtf" increases. That makes the region unblanced.

Basically, I'm suggesting this to return the mob balance/ placement go back to normal. There is no need to have high level mobs in starter cities regions.

it is a bit unfair that high level players get areas that were once for low-mid levels. Plus all the areas they had from the get go, and areas that got added. A low level became very limited in choice. My choices ti level around windy: west/east sarutabaruta (a few pages here are tedious at best due to how spread out mobs are) the canyon (hard to navigate at times, mobs spread out.) the east sarutabaruta towers (link/aggro is too high so death rate is pretty high) Giddeus (link/aggro is too high, death rate high) And that is it really. I shouldn't be forced to waste my play time running to a different area just to "try" to level. (as in going to a different nation)

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it is a bit unfair that high level players get areas that were once for low-mid levels

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Its because there are more high levels than low levels...

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Originally Posted by Rosina

Raist you infact have stated that you see this as a pointless suggestion. And continue you "find" evidence to baxk it up. I know not all trial require weather. But point blank mobs found in ruins dotted around windurst are also located in other regions, so you would not need the ruins.

Also the mobs in the tower north of Giddeus pre change was solo-able from 5-13. Also Raist by net generation, i didn't mean age, I meant playing on ffxi. When I started we just played the game, did trial and error. We didn't do the "look on wiki" stuff.

Also Raist, you don't need to constently correct people when you CLEARLY "don't get it". You started ffxi later then I did. So you are not really in the know. You only know what wiki taught you. Which hate to say, in some cases have proven false.

Wiki is user created, so cases of inaccurate data will happen. It also can be freely changed by anyone with an account. So realistically anyone can write anything and state it as fact.

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I did not state it as being pointless....I even quoted what I said. Again, you have misrepresented the conversation. This is exactly what I was talking about.

And I do get it, and I too experimented....even stated it at some point that I did so with subjobs to see how alternative combinations played out. And if someone is going to continually spout false information against something I just checked out, yes...I'm going to correct it if someone else doesn't do it first. If anything, it might be you that isn't getting it. You are refusing to accept that there is a reasonable, accepted means to avoid the dangers presented that challenges the direness of the situation as it was presented, and that the changes actually did serve a purpose and do fulfill a need. What you are requesting to fulfill your perceived need can already be fulfiilled easily, you are just refusing to accept change I guess. IDK why you were struggling so hard when so many others have not---especially considering you are a veteran player vs. 13 year olds that are new to the game.

OK, so the mobs are available where... in a rival nations area? Or somewhere out in no-man's land that requires lengthy travel to get too? Isn't that one of the same arguments that you've used--don't want to have to travel so much? If you feel it is a viable excuse on one hand, it can be applied to the other as well. You've been round and round so much.. I think you're starting to undermine your own position.

Whether I started in 2004 or late 2005 makes no difference if I too have actually explored and played the game extensively and have experienced the challenges. I never stated all I knew was what Wiki taught me...you are making assumptions again. As you are so fond of bringing up in other threads, you've never played with me and know nothing of my playstyle outside of what has been posted here. Many that have played at length with me will attest to the fact I try repeatedly to accomplish things on my own before I ask for help--and as such I've made a buttload of mistakes, and suffered countless deaths and delevels from it. It's a running joke amongst friends that I'm a connoisseur of Vana' diel dirt. They all know that if I'm asking for help...I'm having a hard time with it. I continually get asked where to do a trial, where to skillup, where to level, where/when is it best to farm this or that. So yes, I've explored in places I had no business being there...thwacked a certain dragon in the nuts when it drew me in as a last great act of defiance before he bit my head off....it's nothing new to me, and just another day in the life for me. I have engaged in sprited debate about theories, gears, events and often take a "show me" or "let me test it for myself" approach for a lot of it---to the point I have spent hours/days testing something just because I wanted to see it with my own eyes. so, please, take a look at your own experiences on these forums before you go on the attack with such assumptions about a player's experience with this game.

Everyone who's been around this game for an extensive amount of time knows that wiki's aren't always 100% correct initially, but most eventually do get corrected--by people who actually test/experience it. And the things I've cited from them have stood the test of time. The FoV/GoV data and references is collected not only from the books in game, but also what I and others have experienced from participating in the content.

I even took the time to verify some information in game, I wasn't just citing wiki's....beginning to wonder just how much of the information in this thread you've actually been digesting.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

Its because there are more high levels than low levels...

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and the game is not newbie friendly as it once was.

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Originally Posted by Rosina

abd the game is not newbie friendly as it once was.

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Actually no, its more so, you see the people who are to stubborn to make the choice of leveling fast via Abyssea/GoV fail to understand that. Where as most will also condemn those who think is good. They both allow new players to get themselves into the most populated part of the game in a matter of days, where as before it was a long grind to get to where most players had the most content and new content being made. In my eyes its like telling you there is a 100 mile bridge and it keeps being built outwards called FFXI, before, you had to walk all 100 miles and then some to catch up to everyone, now you can get someone to give you a car ride for a few bucks and you get caught up to everyone in just a few hours, then you can work with everyone else on the bridge together!

btw Raise the part you kinda fail to read is that part you wrote
" Quite simply, the changes are not needed, " << this pretty much does infact mean you find it pointless. If something is not needed it is pointless.

I feel this suggested is needed, I gave my input. Also this game was never that hard/ long to get lvls. Only ones who actually complained are the ppl who wrere rude, leeched, and noobs in general. (who are the apparent ones who took over the ffxi community... or at least the assumed of most forum posters) I restarted this game 70 times. And i got 16 of those 70 up to max in my play time of 7 years.

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Originally Posted by Rosina

Also raist, since you seem to not read my post at all cept what you FEEL are inaccurate statements. You would be surprised to know that the quests in question NEVER needed assistence from anything. And there is something you forget, you need tabs inorder to put book sneak/invis. Did you ever thing or grasp that a person may not have tabs?

You are not grasping any concept then what wiki or the norm tells you. That is what I'm trying to get across to you. You shouldn't assume anything. Not everyone follows wiki/ the norm like a net gen zombie.

I personally perfer more free form play instead of going by the apparent ffxi bible. To really share an opinion about this though. You would have to physically experience it for yourself. You shouldn't comment on what you assume you see. I never had an issue leveling around windy before. Now i am. Its not really the difficaulty. It is on the fact that I'm running more then killing. Which for me gets dull fast. Mobs in the zones are too spread out.

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No, I read your posts...some of it is just hard to follow. And in general, I don't always go through line for line through them. Most of the time it's a stream of consciousness thing...as points come back in to mind while typing, I comment on them. Sometimes I have to go back and stich something in that I overlooked, or I go back and quote a post later and comment on it. To be honest, it's hard to keep it straight with your arguments sometimes because you'll hop all over across multiple posts.

And that quest could have required stealth tactics in the past as you were initially presenting it, as there were aggressive mobs that would aggro you--as I already stated it would have depended on the level at which you were chosing to do it as to whether you wanted to avoid aggro or fight your way through it.

And the comment about the tabs just further shows that you aren't getting some of the points that have been made. How many times has FoV/GoV been pointed out in this thread?. It's just hard to fathom that someone would turn down the free xp offered from the books, especially if the pages are the mobs you are going to fight anyways.....but, again, that comes down to personal choice.

Which is what a lot of this boils down to. In spite of all the evidence, testimonies that could probably be gathered here to show you a more efficient, less stressful, and more enjoyable way to do something.....you have a history of turning your nose up at it. But, that's another series of debates....but it does still apply here.

Typo I guess, I'm guessing you meant I'm not grasping any concept other than what the wiki or the norm has told me. Again, you are assuming a lot there. Guessing you haven't read my last post yet. In addition, I spent the vast majority of my time in the game solo, and when in parties was more duo up to 4-manning things more so than 6-man. This was not only pre-abyssea, but pre WotG as well. I was duoing WotG missions at 75 caps. We didn't follow cookie-cutter roles/strategies often....to this day I still get teased about my prized BLM Blackjack posession, and cursed for inspiring other BLM's to become whirling dervishes--but that scythe allowed us to setup chains sometimes that sped things up like farming and such, allowing us to get our wins faster. Always an unconventional group, but we found our own way of getting things done. Conversations frequently went along the lines of: Can we pull this off? IDK, but won't know till we try--who still has reraise/raise? Wanna try again?

I don't follow an FFXI bible....never claimed I did....to be honest, don't think there really is such a thing. If there is, I sure haven't read it. Hell, I was a melee SMN when I started bringing that up--even in parties. I was using Carby in Khazaam, tossing out the cures, and thwacking with my staff..sometimes even daggers--and inspite of the objections, we kept chains lgoing, and people survived because I made sure there was a WHM for main healing...I made it work for me and my party, some didn't like it, they left, and were promptly replaced and we moved on. I've almost always found my own way of doing things... but when someone showed me a a better way to do it, I generally took it unless I had specific reasons not too (like I leveled my jobs to 75 before going into Abyssea because I wanted to keep my skills up so I could actually hit things and avoid resists when I started--didn't want to be dead weight).

Sure, there are tried and true methods to do some things, and you can tweak them to kinda sort of do it your own way, or do it completely bassackwards in everyone's eyes if it still works, it works. But let's face it....some things just make perfect sense. For instance, if your first job for Maat is BLM, why would you do BLM Maat any other way? It's simple, it's fast....barring that random resist, screwy lag, or a misfire on the macroing----it's virtually an assured win if you follow the script for it, or at least the spirit of it. Sometimes it just really doesn't make much sense to kill yourself repeatedly when you can just do it the proven way, unless you are just a glutten for punishment. That's what's so perplexing, regardless of logical assertions/contradictions--you refuse to accept there may be a simple way to do what you are having trouble doing.

The last statements in this post are a bit confusing. What I've assumed to have seen? Say what? Either I have seen LS Mates re-roll and level or I haven't, we've sent people to camps that worked or didn't. Either I've gone out and skilled up, shared my experiences with others and they've followed the path with success, or not. It's not anything I've "assumed". As I stated a long time ago...we've been putting things in practice. Then there's this bit:
"I never had an issue leveling around windy before. Now i am. Its not really the difficaulty."
But....you spent time on difficulties you did have with some camps, so...not sure what is what with that now. If the mobs aren't too hard, but were appropriate level for you to xp off of.....why were they giving you trouble?
"It is on the fact that I'm running more then killing. Which for me gets dull fast. Mobs in the zones are too spread out"
Than you might need to form a new plan I guess? You've brought up the whole free form style of play, then why not put it in practice? Find a spot that doesn't require so much running around. There are lots of places you can go, if you would just stick to your guns with this individuality factor and try new things...which is what has been suggested you do but refuse to do, even though you've proclaimed it is how you prefer to play.

And....weren't you a level 21 WAR just the other day? Now your profile is showing level 1...and in Bastok. IDK...starting to wonder if it's not more an issue of lack of focus combined with an actual unwillingness to experiment that is getting in the way with you finding your way in the new FFXI. I just don't run into people in game having this much trouble finding their way these days...it just defies logic, unless it is something more specific to your approach somehow.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rosina

btw Raise the part you kinda fail to read is that part you wrote
" Quite simply, the changes are not needed, " << this pretty much does infact mean you find it pointless. If something is not needed it is pointless.

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If you take it out of context, then I guess you could say that, but you can't slice and dice the complete thought. Even cutting it up like that, it doesn't mesh right. Not needed =/= pointless. Pointless implies it would make no difference towards acheiving the ultimate result, Not needed means it is not necessary to make the change in order to achieve the ultimate goal.

Put in context, with the whole statement ("Quite simply, the changes are not needed, and will drastically upset the structure of what the game has evolved into.") it has a deeper meaning. The discussion was about viable, reasonable alternative strategies for accomplishing the ultimate goals in question. The discussion was bringing forth ways to get things done even with this new obstical. After showing that it is not a permanent obstacle preventing progression, it is thus not needed to change it, especially in light of the point that it will upset the new structure that has evolved. Essentially, you are asking for a change so that one group of people can continue to do what they can already do, and in doing so, denying another group from doing what they are currently doing--when it can be basically left alone (as one poster pointed out, they could just make them non-aggressive) and both parties can continue to progress.

Therefore, it is not necessary for them to revert the zones to their previous states...as there are already remedies present, and if the threat is still too great, they can tweak it just a little to remove the threat without upsetting the current structure that is proving useful as inteneded when the change was implemented.

[Edit:]
as for the statement about "I never stated any reply here was a personal attack outside the one triss made.", you continued to put forth the notion that I have been harrassing you, which is clearly not the case.

Oh, and then there's this post, aimed directly at me:

Quote:

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I'm not even trying to point out insult to cover my tracks you proving it with each post ur doing. Instead of coming in here skiming my posts, stoning me for my experiences see for urself. You are helping those players. I'm not getting help. I have tried these suggestions... they didn't work. But my suggestion still stands.

simply put... get over urself.. ur doing nothing but attacking a poster for their suggestion. Nothing more....

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(missed this point in this post earlier, but you assumed I was directly helping the new players, which was not the case...people ask where to go, we tell them. On some occasions, someone has teamed up and they made parties, but there is a lot of solo work going on...we try to encourage people to try things for themselves first to prevent full dependency on others)

ok raist I'm not gonna read every bit of text in ur post because you over complicate ur replies.
here is something I suggest.

1) do not skim posts
2) if you have a question or unsure of what is written ask befor commenting.

What this actually boils down to as you simply do not "get it" and you go out of ur way to try and discredit something that you are not grasping.

I can only assume you physically never leveled in windurst. So you do not have any say on what I am personally going through. A new player, nor a vet who is returning, shouldn't go out of their way just to level up in the lower levels. Traveling does take too much time out of what your trying to do. I fully explained why the current "options" are not all that fun or easy to really safely level up in. You just haven't experienced it.

What you assume you see, may not be what is actually going on. You cannot sit there and tell me with out having experienced it for yourself what "options" are viable. I have tried most, and come ~>

< ~
to find that compared to before, leveling is that much more tedious SINCE the change. And zones have became unbalanced and redundent. High levels ALSO have options WAY MORE then lower levels. They do not NEED more. Plus they are getting the zones in the new exspansion.

This topic is something you need to actually experience to really comment on. You can't really say "oh you can just go do this, this, or this" with out having to physically done it.

If you wanna prove me wrong walk a mile in my shoes, if that isn't something you wish to do. Please stop posting, because it does feel you are attacking (not personally) but you feel you must/ have to be right.

Did you think that you may be wrong because you lack that experience?

He did mention that he took a subjob and leveled it through the area to see what you meant. I think there's skimming over areas coming from you too. Maybe SE should work on the monster placement again; but I for one love the new Zeruhn Mines and areas like the basement of Garliage Citadel. I regularly go there by myself or with friends to either skill; get a few merits without dealing with others or try for the skill up ring (in Zeruhn).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rosina

ok raist I'm not gonna read every bit of text in ur post because you over complicate ur replies.
here is something I suggest.

1) do not skim posts
~>

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No context to take this out of. You straight up tell someone that you don't read the detailed and thought out replies they give and then proceed to tell them not to skim posts.

If you expect someone to read your rambling and barely comperehensible walls of text (to give credit they have gotten better in the last few posts I've read) at least have the decency to accord them the same respect.

You people suck at making concise arguments.

God, some admin please lock this thread. I feel like I'm reading a Williams S. Burroughs novel.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mahoro

God, some admin please lock this thread. I feel like I'm reading a Williams S. Burroughs novel.

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^-----Oh my goodness this!


And on a related note, i think threads like this(or rather what it has devolved into) could have occurred pretty much entirely in Private Messages. When is that feature going to be unlocked mods?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Komori

He did mention that he took a subjob and leveled it through the area to see what you meant. I think there's skimming over areas coming from you too. Maybe SE should work on the monster placement again; but I for one love the new Zeruhn Mines and areas like the basement of Garliage Citadel. I regularly go there by myself or with friends to either skill; get a few merits without dealing with others or try for the skill up ring (in Zeruhn).

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I am not saying the mines though.... Just windurst areas. And the ciditel mobs didn't get that much of a noticeble change since the lower part was already higher anyway. I'm talking mobs that was once mid level are now high level.

As for he tried, he took a lvl 59 whm and went there to see the quest area. He never leveled a character from the ground up, and said he couldn't.

i never skimed his posts, and only didn't want to read his recent cuz it was the same bs as he keeps writing. He is only spreading what he assumes he is seeing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rosina

I am not saying the mines though.... Just windurst areas. And the ciditel mobs didn't get that much of a noticeble change since the lower part was already higher anyway. I'm talking mobs that was once mid level are now high level.

As for he tried, he took a lvl 59 whm and went there to see the quest area. He never leveled a character from the ground up, and said he couldn't.

i never skimed his posts, and only didn't want to read his recent cuz it was the same bs as he keeps writing. He is only spreading what he assumes he is seeing.

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You really need to go back and read the posts. I was not skimming them. If you had bothered to take the time to read my responses to most of your last blast of posts before my patience wore out with trying to respond to every single point in the long run of them, you would have a firmer grasp of that point (in case you don't afford the same respect I try to extend to you....the way you post makes it VERY difficult to respond to in full, all the time--I take the time to try to proofread my posts, re-read them, edit/update them--you sometimes post 4 or 5 times to one of mine because it takes so long sometimes---roughly 35 minutes spent so far on this ONE post to you).

Guess your memory of SE's form of balance may be a bit fuzzy. Each starter nation got these adjustments made to zones that were of the same caliber for their regions. No other starter nation has a zone laid out like H. Ruins, So, naturally, there would be some variances--but they DID have zones previously setup to be used in the same level ranges that received the SAME adjustments. As per SE's past history for adjustments, if they reverted H. Ruins, these similar zones in the other starter nations would likewise be adjusted. So, by extension, what you have requested could very reasonably be expected to apply across the board for those parallel portions of the game--and would be a big upset to a certain section of the playerbase, to correct a problem that already has a correction built into the current structure of the game. On our server, R. Pass and Dangruff are used a LOT for very specific reasons (as I have seen first hand, because I go there a LOT myself), and apparently so is H. ruins, as evidenced by the fact I have yet to NOT find 90+ players using it on our server.

umm.. 59 WHM? Where are you getting that from? My WHM is 99 btw. Case in point that you are in fact skimming my posts, and making wild assumptions about me. If you had taken the time to actually read them , you would have caught that I casted snk/inv with 49 WHM skill and never said I was on WHM. Hint: I was sending Garuda to kill the mobs I was testing (was pointed out in one of the posts). In short, I was exploring on 99 SMN/WHM, in case you still haven't figured it out.

You also would have read that I experimented and leveled in starter zones in 05/06 and experienced the same challenges one would face in all starter zones. If you actually compared them, you would see Bastok and Windy have some similar target options as far as difficutlies go--in some cases the Bastok path could actually be rougher on you. But, I didn't just level in Bastok. I made a lot of friends from Sandy and Windurst, and cooking was my primary craft, so I actually spent a lot of time coming from the Sara and Ronfaure paths (even made the mistake of wandering into KRT and got drawn in by a certain dragon....guess you missed that part too, didn't you?) It wasn't only for bettter support for my crafting, but also because I didn't reallly care too much for the Gustaburg path back then. I used it early on, but quickly got tired of being ripped apart by lizards and turtlebacks and changed camps when I could. Spent many a night chatting under a tree in Sandy, or farming chips/silks in Windy with my friends for cash.

[afterthought:] That zone right there in E. Ronfare has for the longest time had mobs as low as 4, as well as up into the 60's, and even NM's as high as 95....just saying, it really isn't something new to have a massively overpowered mob appear in a lower level zone--granted, maybe not a full time situation for the absurd end of the spectrum, but it has always been possible for players to wander haphazardly into aggro range of a ridiculously overpowering monster...a point that just doesn't seem to be sinking in, no matter how many different examples are given.[just a few thoughts that hit me when reading over this again]

So, yes, I do have some familiarity with the mobs there in the past, but it was about 5+ years ago, so the specifics were blurry--that's why I took the time to actually GO there. You also would have read that LS members have been starting up there and going through the exact same zones/levels/lack of subjob/etc. as you are--only, for some reason, they have been successful at it. Thus, I don't need to pay to create a new character and spend the time to prove something that I have already seen played out in practice...yet another point that you should have picked up on if you were actually reading the posts.

I am not spreading what I am ASSUMING to have seen (you keep using that word...), I am pointing out things I have ACTUALLY seen, experienced, tested...things that have been PROVEN to work and to be TRUE. Why you can't accept such simple truths as being self-evident defies logic.

Maybe that's it...do you like to defy logic simply for the sake of defying it? IDK, but so long as you keep challenging things known/proven to be true and/or disrespecting those who simply see things differently than you, you take the risk of being rebutted/challenged. Please, if you really don't like being debated or called out for bad behavioral traits, either start using more common sense and show some modicum of respect...or just drop it when you have been corrected by those that have already been there/done that.

Again, all of this back and forth could have been avoided if you would have just followed those basic principles and not flown off the handle and assumed a clueless player was attacking you specifically, digging in your heels with a sort of I'm right, your wrong and don't know what you're talking about attitude. If you would just take the time to reflect on your own and other's post(s) and actually seen where things maybe/were in error, or simply a difference of opinion---there would have never been any need for me to put up all these details to support my point of view or to try to provide more accurate versions of the situations being discussed.