99 Empyrean Trials.

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Originally Posted by DrStrangelove

So, of the 3 of us, my opinion, is far more valid.

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Good god, i didnt even bother to look you up, i assume DSL isnt your real character, which i just confirmed considering DLS does not have any of the items you claim to own, and what if i were to say i'm working on a relic now? since any change to a relic in the near future would effect me if/when i obtain it or rather any one who has or is working on the the item's opinion is valid.

My point is your hiding behind a sock puppet, that isn't just name calling considering you made grandiose claims to have x and y relics and at least DSL does not.

Since when did i call you names? oh just now, but before nope, unless you were inferring that i called you a coward which i did not directly say.

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Originally Posted by Erics

But you can't factor in empys 99 stage? The rift I've been seeing are only going for 1.5mil. Guess what?! Empys are still more expensive!!

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At your estimate that's 90m for final stage, right now each merrow is ~20m assuming they are available that's 100m. That aside currency is not an accurate way to compare trials the value of these items change day to day, server to server, player to player (bought a Riftcinder earlier today for 300k, if Almace is never finished I'll sell it back for more. If I assume I will find more for this price then for me 95 -> 99 will be under 20m. Not to mention some I've already bought for ~100k)

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Originally Posted by Zinato

At your estimate that's 90m for final stage, right now each merrow is ~20m assuming they are available that's 100m. That aside currency is not an accurate way to compare trials the value of these items change day to day, server to server, player to player (bought a Riftcinder earlier today for 300k, if Almace is never finished I'll sell it back for more. If I assume I will find more for this price then for me 95 -> 99 will be under 20m. Not to mention some I've already bought for ~100k)

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Who's your supplier?! (sounds like an epic drug deal!)

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Originally Posted by Nala

Good god, i didnt even bother to look you up, i assume DSL isnt your real character, which i just confirmed considering DLS does not have any of the items you claim to own, and what if i were to say i'm working on a relic now? since any change to a relic in the near future would effect me if/when i obtain it or rather any one who has or is working on the the item's opinion is valid.

My point is your hiding behind a sock puppet, that isn't just name calling considering you made grandiose claims to have x and y relics and at least DSL does not.

Since when did i call you names? oh just now, but before nope, unless you were inferring that i called you a coward which i did not directly say.

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Your point? Einstein was a patent clerk, so he couldn't know physics? Mendel was a Friar so what could he know about genetics?

The words I write are correct depending not whether they are, in fact, correct, but who you think says them?

5+5= 10, but not if I say it? Only if I have a level 99 character?

Really? Do you judge people as being correct on what they look like or what age they are?

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Originally Posted by Erics

But you can't factor in empys 99 stage? The rift I've been seeing are only going for 1.5mil. Guess what?! Empys are still more expensive!!

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I don't know what world you're living in but you're going to pay around 20 mil at least per marrow but more than likey around 30 , so no empys are not more expensive lol.

Dross isn't anywere close to 1.5 mil on quetz i picked up some today for 500 k each aswell.

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Originally Posted by Erics

Who's your supplier?! (sounds like an epic drug deal!)

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Lol, no way you're on my server. I know I'm getting a good deal why would I share the info -.-
A hint though I do troll bazaars and look for players I know sell cheaply.

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Originally Posted by newmonkey

I don't know what world you're living in but you're going to pay around 20 mil at least per marrow, so no empys are not more expensive lol.

Dross isn't anywere close to 1.5 mil on quetz i picked up some today for 500 each aswell.

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Many are up for 1 mill on Bismarck.

The problem is not price...both weapons are going to be expensive or tedious or both. The problem, like mythics is supply being far to small once ADL, Salvage and VW are allowed to lapse in interest.

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Originally Posted by DrStrangelove

You have funny posts.

First, I have both a relic and an empyrean, unlike you who has 1 empy (and no relic or mythic) and the OP who has 3 empys (and no relic or mythic). !!

So, of the 3 of us, my opinion, is far more valid.

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I pay for 5 accounts, I have 3 empyreans and 1 relic and about to be 5 ebisu's, which are sort of like relics, if we're comparing opinions and which persons should hold more weight, I've done more then you, I have more then you, and I pay SE 5x more then you, so it's definitely me, so gtfo.

ALSO: If you're gonna claim to be a big shot, maybe you should not hide on a level 1 mule hiding who you are, I doubt you have anything based on the things you've said, and it's not like you've proved anything to anyone. So take your level 1 self and leave my thread before you make yourself look more dumb.

it has nothing to do with level, and everything to do with taking ownership of your opinion with your OWN character, DSL isnt that, DSL is some mule your using to maintain your anonymity at least in terms of the FFXI community, i also call BS on your claims to multiple relics your worse then MarkovChain aka P-chan, he at least isn't afraid to post his opinions as himself.

Who he is, what level he is has no relevance. Everyone gets an opinion and as long as its not aggressive, everyone else then gets to decide if they agree or disagree. Don't get this thread locked.

Why are people responding to a level 1 poster?
Real Character or GTFO
Sorry if this was brought up lol

ITT: Lieing about having Relics and Mythics is cool

How has no one brought up to this fool that level 90 emps aren't free based on their opportunity cost? Every brew is worth 500k every emp item from a lot of NMs is worth 300-500k. A lot of pop sets are 50-100k. Depending on how you do your specific emp your opportunity cost could be anywhere from 20-80mil.

It's all about opportunity cost and as long as however many HMPs you need for 95 ends up being worth around 100mil then trials are balanced. Dropping the requirements to 150-300 would skyrocket the prices and balance the cost with relics even if you only needed an amount of HMPs that you could realistically farm yourself in 80 or so hours of gameplay. The ONLY difference is that instead of cruor burning or dynamis farming or crafting to make the gil for your plates you could do VW for roughly the same amount of time. It would still cost you the same amount of gil but you could actually be doing the relevant event. If that doesn't make sense then idk what does.

People seem to be forgetting he's talking about SOLOING here. As in doing it alone, no help, no multi-boxing, noone other but your main character.

You can only hold one pop item at any given time. You can only hold one KI (or set of KIs) at any given time. Meaning you can't aoe kill mobs for pop items/KIs. So lets take Apademak. Kill the appropriate lesser nms and hope for pop items to drop. Or, buy a pop set from AH. Pop Dhorme Khimaira. Hope you can proc red and not die. Pop Apademak and brew it (lololol @ soloing Apademak without brew).

Oh hey, you used your KI for Apademak. Now you gotta do all that all over again, you can't brew lock because you need to make another pop set for Dhorme Khimaira and proc red on that so you will be able to pop Apademak again. Oh and you need another brew for the next Apademak. You'll need to pop a minimum of 38 Apademaks to finish horns. That's 7.600.000 cruor. Or, twenty million gil worth of cruor, if you want. If you don't have 7.6mil cruor, then you need to stop and farm cruor somehow.

Same thing applies for the level 80 and 85 item nms. You can only hold one pop set at a time. And what if you can't proc red? Damn, you have to go back and get another pop set.

So yeah, good luck doing that in 9 days. Solo.

@^
have my childrenz (and if you a man just catch the seed and let it die on its own)


Also, don't forget, if you're doing it solo, you can't team up w/ anyone during the pre-80 trials, so you have to camp against, not with anyone else camping those same NMs

All the bitching about which costs the most between relics and empyreans is pretty silly they are the most balanced they have ever been since the 99 trials were introduced and they are pretty close in total gil spent so its pretty pointless to argue over which is worth more or not.

That been said i think se should man up and just admit they kinda mugged it with the hmp supply and reassure the playerbabse that they are going to increase the drop rate in the next update there is no need to change the amount needed just increase the drop rate or places to get them by a good margin.

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Originally Posted by newmonkey

All the bitching about which costs the most between relics and empyreans is pretty silly they are the most balanced they have ever been since the 99 trials were introduced and they are pretty close in total gil spent so its pretty pointless to argue over which is worth more or not.

That been said i think se should man up and just admit they kinda mugged it with the hmp supply and reassure the playerbabse that they are going to increase the drop rate in the next update there is no need to change the amount needed just increase the drop rate or places to get them by a good margin.

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Just like with mythics I'd rather see a decrease in amount required than increase in drop rate.

SE needs to adjust to 200-300 required
Same with mythics Alex needs to be adjusted to 8000-10000 instead of 30000

here's why.... Unless SE makes every single NEW voidwatch NM drop heavy metal plates then the content will eventually become ungrindable and Empys in general will not be upgraded as much or often as Relics.

And they won't do that because they never allowed mythics to be solo farmable for instance, even now, unlike relics.

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Originally Posted by Insaniac

How has no one brought up to this fool that level 90 emps aren't free based on their opportunity cost? Every brew is worth 500k every emp item from a lot of NMs is worth 300-500k. A lot of pop sets are 50-100k. Depending on how you do your specific emp your opportunity cost could be anywhere from 20-80mil.

It's all about opportunity cost and as long as however many HMPs you need for 95 ends up being worth around 100mil then trials are balanced. Dropping the requirements to 150-300 would skyrocket the prices and balance the cost with relics even if you only needed an amount of HMPs that you could realistically farm yourself in 80 or so hours of gameplay. The ONLY difference is that instead of cruor burning or dynamis farming or crafting to make the gil for your plates you could do VW for roughly the same amount of time. It would still cost you the same amount of gil but you could actually be doing the relevant event. If that doesn't make sense then idk what does.

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This post points out one of the biggest problems with the Empyrean 95 trials (and potentially the 99 trials). Up to level 90 I was able to log in, immediately hop into Abyssea, and start making progress on my weapon in some way. I didn't need to spend any gil along the way which let me focus on the relevant content of the time (Abyssea). Now, if I ever want to get my weapon to 95, I have to log in, wait for a VW shout for an NM that drops HMPs, wait for that group to actually fill up, wait for randoms to actually gather at the spawn, and hope to god that my chest isn't flooded with useless crafting materials (despite capped lights, and cells used each time).

With Abyssea I was guaranteed to walk away with something if I did the leg work. With Voidwatch it's a crap shoot on whether I'll get anything. The content that is actually relevant to my trial is just so horribly broken that I have to buy HMPs to finish in a reasonable amount of time. That leaves me doing old, unrelated content (Dynamis) in an effort to raise enough gil. To me it's utterly ridiculous that I can't expect to make reasonable progress on a trial by participating in the content tied to it.

I don't understand why relic/mythic quests sucking so bad means empy has to suck

thats some very antiquated thinking

how about, heavy metal plates gets fixed to a decent number, and alexandrite rains from the sky in new nyzul, and relics take 1 umbral marrow to get to 99

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Originally Posted by Cybernetic_Empire

This post points out one of the biggest problems with the Empyrean 95 trials (and potentially the 99 trials). Up to level 90 I was able to log in, immediately hop into Abyssea, and start making progress on my weapon in some way. I didn't need to spend any gil along the way which let me focus on the relevant content of the time (Abyssea). Now, if I ever want to get my weapon to 95, I have to log in, wait for a VW shout for an NM that drops HMPs, wait for that group to actually fill up, wait for randoms to actually gather at the spawn, and hope to god that my chest isn't flooded with useless crafting materials (despite capped lights, and cells used each time).

With Abyssea I was guaranteed to walk away with something if I did the leg work. With Voidwatch it's a crap shoot on whether I'll get anything. The content that is actually relevant to my trial is just so horribly broken that I have to buy HMPs to finish in a reasonable amount of time. That leaves me doing old, unrelated content (Dynamis) in an effort to raise enough gil. To me it's utterly ridiculous that I can't expect to make reasonable progress on a trial by participating in the content tied to it.

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thats my fear too and why I rushed and spammed the hell out of dynamis after the 95 cap. You still see HMP right now. People said wait a few months and HMP price will drop. It didnt. It satayed at 100-150k. But in a few months when they (hopefully) release other content, vw will become irreleveant and HMP will dry out. I might finish my 95 and 99 daurdabla trials before working on spharai99 upgrades, actually, since the empyrean trials are quite doable now, provideded you have gils

God I've never had so much blank space from ignore lists....

Alright. "Having the gil" idiocy aside; What can be done to fix the Empy trials have been lost to the troll-bridges. Let's try a recap, shall we?

An adjustment to the amount of plates dropped: Either allow pouches to drop at least 15 and upwards of 25, or reduce the requirement to something manageable like 200 to 300. A combination of both would be helpful. If the Devs feel the need to keep the Balance Hammer in effect the cinder/dross can be adjusted back to 125, as long as the dross/cinder follows the same pouch possibility as the plates. Because let's face it, the supply won't last much longer with people getting what they want and moving on.

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Originally Posted by Finuve

I don't understand why relic/mythic quests sucking so bad means empy has to suck

thats some very antiquated thinking

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If anything, rather than try to make Empyrean more like Relic and Mythic, it should be the other way around. To me, Empyrean up till 90 was the system they got right. It's actually modern MMO content. It does take time and teamwork, and don't anyone say it doesn't, but it's not some life stealing/life altering experience. It's fair and rewarding.

Relic acquisition is an antiquated grindfest reminiscent of the worst of Evercrack. Mythics were billed as easier to obtain than Relics, but with the Alexandrite requirement became a joke no one could laugh at. The only thing Empys lack is rarity and prestige, but sadly that seems to be what's most important to SE and many fellow players. To many of us though that rarity and prestige is meaningless, but we're apparently not the ones who matter.

Rarity and prestige is not the problem everyone has, the problem they have is empyrean has become the everyone weapon. And a large portion of jobs have gained the stima of Empyrean or gimp. Period. SAM RNG WAR MNK DRK PLD NIN are all examples. What empyrean did was split the bar between players too far apart, In alot of cases empyrean double or triples the next best thing. (excluding relic/mythic) Whats more the Merit weaponskills ment to combat the that issue got a large nerf and why? Because all the empyrean players said it ruined the work they did on their empyrean. Is this sounding familiar. (relic) Now the game is split empyrean owners find things too easy and non empyrean are having trouble. To top it off players (even on things that don't require it) have begun using empyrean as a sort feature. Surely, if you value a job you would go get empyrean even if it means making a 3rd or 4th super weapon, right?

These weapons are not soloable by some or all jobs at some stage or another everyone WILL need help, unlike relic which given time is 100% soloable. Empyrean can't become the bar unless there is some balance (that's right) Either other non empyrean need to be only slightly weaker (damaging the value of empyrean), or empyrean can maintain its power over other weapons at the cost of rarity. Fact stands, In a world players expect someone who likes tanking with say PLD, MNK and NIN (this may even be their only 3 jobs) to have 4 different empyrean to count all of their jobs as usable something needs to be done. Fix merit weaponskills (for everyone not just SAM) and sure players can have the higher damaging empyrean at an easier rate. (Don't bother mentioning WoE versions those are just as much of a pain to get since WoE is a ghost town)

Just to point out you can't solo the fragment and attestation for relics and no one is soloing the 99 stage.

Come on se thorw the people a bone here and announce some refinements for heavy metal plates.

Are you sure you can't solo those? (disappointing news to me I thought id be able to at 99) That's for the first two, and I only ment to the 85 trial since that's when the destructive power comes, 90 at most since that's the common "end point". As long as you get the main idea.

If empys are so easy peasy why care if you don't have the means to upgrade em further. They are perfectly fine how they are at 90 anyways. Heck I was probably one of the first people to make a 95 empy, and I don't even give a shit about upgrading it to 99 atm. All they add is a few base dmg, I'm not gonna pay another 60m for that. I did mine to 95, hoping 99 would be some uber upgrades, but empy gets nothing but base dmg increase, fuck that. I would not even do it to 95 if I had the chance to go back in time and undo it. The only weapon really worth making 99 is the harp, since that actualy gives you a big bonus of one more song.

Look at my woe weapons, all sitting at 90, I don't care about buying up devious dice to upgrade em further. Spend 10m gils to add 3 more base dmg okay!

If they lower HMP amount required, everyone will start to sell them for 1-2m each. Same thing happened to riftdross/cinder. They were like 100k before, now they are 1m soon as they announced the reduced numbers.

Mythics are not impossible, you will just have to slowly farm it yourself, and hope the nyzul patch will bring alot more alex.

I find it bs they didn't lower the riftdross/cinder requirements. That stuff is pretty rare too, and it will be impossible to get once people stop farming the 2 mobs. Hopefully they will add drops to new tiers.

Relic trial is by far the easiest with the least amount of work. No one is gonna sell you umbrals, so saying it will cost as much as empy is laughable. 5 umbrals you will do with your linkshell, and they will be free. Maybe if you try and pay 18 people to help you kill ADL it will cost you gil.

I know this much though, I will finish 99 relic before I finish 99 empy.

You're wrong certain ls on Asura is selling umbrals at 30 mil each pretty sure others will merc them aswell once they get a few of there own relics done.

As long as SE makes adjustments to the drop rate of HMP in some way, I won't care to collect 1,500 HMP. Doing an LS event of voidwatch for 8 to 9 hours and only walking away with 1 HMP, if that, is redundant.

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Originally Posted by Zinato

Are you sure you can't solo those? (disappointing news to me I thought id be able to at 99) T

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Really REALLY depends on a lot of factors. Let's just say the average Joe/Jane will not walk into Dynamis and solo attest/animated stuff. Ever. If you are above average in gear and skill then don't be afraid to try to solo something. You do get to enter Dynamis once each day now and basically for free, after all. At bare minimum I can confirm that BST walks all over everything. With Quie though it might need help. I'm not sure how much of a factor haste was for my BST when I killed it. Bene is a bitch. Also THF will not solo and must duo with a mage at the very least.

With the update in 7 days, I pray, an announcement of HMP adjustments comes soon... Come on SE wtf, Let us know you increased the drop rate or they are more common in the new VW mobs. GIVE US SOMETHING! :c!

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

So take your level 1 self and leave my thread before you make yourself look more dumb.

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I'm only here because you want me here. And be careful wearing the blinders you have. Your posts don't help the impression you give off one bit.

At this point the update is too near to make a change now, (or at least i'm sure that's the excuse we will get) we will see soon enough what the final decision is. Arguing among ourselves won't do any good.

It's sad that the strongest arguments to change how empyreans are done are these:

1) you are level 1
2) you are anonymous
3) we don't believe you
4) get out of "OUR" thread
5) LOL

It seems if those are the best arguments you have for SE, they won't find much useful to read here.

Wait, I forgot one

6) wahhhhhh


Reminders for those who have forgotten:

1) there have been 16,000 empys made in 1 year, versus 4,000 relics in 8 years (with twice the number of people.) Ignore away if you will, but SE has the same numbers.

2) Empys are free up to level 90; Relics and myhics cost between 120 and 300 million just to get to level 75

3) The amount of cost for empys and relics ONLY becomes close if you take the empy to level 99. It is a CHOICE the empy owner has to make.

4) Empys at level 90 are excellent weapons; relics at level 75 are far far weaker

5) Many people have done the level 95 empys already. It's a slap in the face to make it reduce the 1,500 plates at this point


For those of you that can't respond to cogent arguments....here is what you can say:

1) you are level 1
2) you are anonymous
3) we don't believe you
4) get out of "OUR" thread
5) LOL
6) wahhhhhh



PS I think it's a pretty lame retort, but if you think that will win the day, go for it.

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Originally Posted by Zinato

At this point the update is too near to make a change now, (or at least i'm sure that's the excuse we will get) we will see soon enough what the final decision is. Arguing among ourselves won't do any good.

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I'm hoping to get a consensus that ADL, Salvage and VW content needs to be keep relevant by adding new drops etc. But I agree that we'll know more in a few days.

Me? I can't wait.

Most of us don't care if they don't reduce the 1,500 needed. We just want an adjustment to the drop rate in some way. Like I have mentioned before, doing VW 8-9 hours a day per run and only seeing 1, or if any, HMP is complete redundancy.

you can replace "HMP" by any item from VW and its why vw is a failed content.

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Originally Posted by DrStrangelove

It's sad that the strongest arguments to change how empyreans are done are these:

1) you are level 1
2) you are anonymous
3) we don't believe you
4) get out of "OUR" thread
5) LOL
.

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That's because people from a certain site like to start arguments every time someone doesn't agree with them. The real excuse though is that they are not good enaugh to get the plates. QQ etc.

So, Mr level 1 mule, players can't solo their relic weapon these days, should they want one? They have to buy the currency needed? Only asking since you keep coming up with the "relics cost XXX amount of gil to get to level 75" argument.

Not disagreeing that mythics are horribly expensive and that an update to alexandrite supply should have been added a long time ago btw.


But yes, this:

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Originally Posted by Erics

Most of us don't care if they don't reduce the 1,500 needed. We just want an adjustment to the drop rate in some way. Like I have mentioned before, doing VW 8-9 hours a day per run and only seeing 1, or if any, HMP is complete redundancy.

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Oh and this:

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

That's because people from a certain site like to start arguments every time someone doesn't agree with them. The real excuse though is that they are not good enaugh to get the plates. QQ etc.

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has to be the dumbest thing I've read here in a while. So, spamming dynamis to make gil to buy plates makes you good? Lol, just lol. Pathetic.

You're all still in denial that SE caters to JPs first and everyone else second. No mater what you want to believe the JP player base is larger than the NA and EU players combined and when given a choice of pleasing them or pleasing us they will choose the JPs every time because when having to make a decision to angerone market segment or another it makes business sense to avoid angering the larger group.

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Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull

You're all still in denial that SE caters to JPs first and everyone else second. No mater what you want to believe the JP player base is larger than the NA and EU players combined and when given a choice of pleasing them or pleasing us they will choose the JPs every time because when having to make a decision to angerone market segment or another it makes business sense to avoid angering the larger group.

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What exactly does this - if even correct - have to do with the empyrean 95/99 trials?