[dev1049] New weapon skills

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It seems you're not up-to-date Runespider.
The 14 new WSs are already on the test server and they are unlocked through merits.
Each WS can be upgraded up to 5 times, total upgrade of the category is 15 atm, which means up to 3 maxed-up Weapon Skills.

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Oh I didn't know that, thanks for clearing it up. Love the way they did it too, needed a reason to merit again.

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Originally Posted by Mizuharu

Camate, I shall give you my Chocobo's first born if you get those other weapon skill videos soon. :Q

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Get your @$$ off of skyrim..my duchy earring only has one charge left. This is an emergency!

I do hope the Hume one will be better than Blade: Hi.
Never liked that one; it's just awkward. :[

Wish they changed that while at it!

I would have liked single different quests for each weapon more, but that would have been too much work, they have limited resources and chose to spend them into developing new animations.
There's also a quest to unlock them, but it's a single one you need to gain access to the new category.
Overall not bad, still better than having them bound to rare and exclusive weapons.
They also made them widely accessible to a lot of jobs.
Examples? SAM on Archery, THF on Markmanship, SAM and WAR on Polearm, MNK on both Club and Staff, etc.

You'll see me whine quite a lot about the current category cap though, will be really hard for me to pick just 3 of them... Really hope they're going to increase it to at least 20 sometimes in the future.

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Originally Posted by Dragoy

I do hope the Hume one will be better than Blade: Hi.
Never liked that one; it's just awkward. :[

Wish they changed that while at it!

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You mean the animation or the stats?
Blade: Hi is just Blade: Ten with different special effect (the fire thingy instead of the Tornado one)

H2H: Shijin Spiral Five-Hit WS, Additional Effect: Plague. TP mods chance of Plague.
Dagger: Exenterator Four-Hit WS, Additional Effect: Accuracy Down. Duration of effect varies with TP.
Sword: Requiescat Five-Hit WS, Non-elemental damage. TP mods Attack (Not sure what it means by this)
Great Sword: Resolution Five-Hit WS, Damage varies with TP.
Axe: Ruinator Four-Hit WS, Accuracy varies with TP.
Great Axe: Upheaval Four-Hit WS, Damage varies with TP.
Scythe: Entropy Four-Hit WS, restores MP based on damage dealt. Damage varies with TP.
Polearm: Stardiver Four-Hit WS, lowers enemy critical hit evasion. Damage varies with TP.
Katana: Blade: Shun Five-Hit WS. TP mods Attack (Same characters as sword)
Great Katana: Tachi: Shoha Two-Hit WS. Damage varies with TP.
Club: Realmrazer Seven-Hit WS. Accuracy varies with TP.
Staff: Shattersoul Four-Hit WS. Lowers enemy magic defense. Chance of effect varies with TP.
Bow: Apex Arrow Triple Damage that ignores defense. Amount ignored varies with TP.
Marksmanship: Last Stand 1-2 Hits, based on ammo remaining. Damage varies with TP.

Assuming this is accurate (and it sounds very accurate to me), the damage of the new weaponskills will pretty much depend on their respective modifiers. Which makes sense, given that modifiers are apparently the bit additional merits will affect.

I really dislike the way they did these WS. The fact that you are stuck unlocking only 3 or if you are to unlock more you rightfully gimp them all. You can only be on one weapon skill table at a time so this is just trying to force players to specialize on fewer jobs.

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Originally Posted by Vold

I don't think any freebie WSs should ever out perform ultimate weapon WSs or even be in the same league as them.

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Someone should have told them this when they made Blade: Metsu, it was just a fancy Blade: Jin with a nice but now useless aftermath (seeing how easy it is to cap Subtle Blow now) way before Blade: Hi ever came out :\

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Originally Posted by brayen

I really dislike the way they did these WS. The fact that you are stuck unlocking only 3 or if you are to unlock more you rightfully gimp them all.

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That's not true, you can unlock them all and have a free upgrade to spend on one of them.
What you can't do is get them all to max level, which is something I don't like either but I guess we'll learn to accept.

Really do hope they'll increase the category limit from 15 to something higher though, 20 or 25 for example.

Anyone with the French or German test client feel like making a video?

I personally just want to see what the others look like.

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Originally Posted by Zhronne

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Originally Posted by Dragoy

I do hope the Hume one will be better than Blade: Hi.
Never liked that one; it's just awkward. :[

Wish they changed that while at it!

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You mean the animation or the stats?
Blade: Hi is just Blade: Ten with different special effect (the fire thingy instead of the Tornado one)

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Yeah, I mean just the animation, though I find it both hilarious and saddening how I can hit 0-40~ with Hi (talk about Lo).

Hmmm, does Ten have the end-half of it as well?
Never thought of that, really. Gotta get on Ninja once I'm done with what I'm doing now. :V


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And so it is. Guess I never just paid enough attention to them, and figured they had been altered at least a bit, but nay... Oh well.

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Originally Posted by brayen

I really dislike the way they did these WS. The fact that you are stuck unlocking only 3 or if you are to unlock more you rightfully gimp them all.

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On the contrary, i understand it can be frustrating, but i like the merit system, and the way it applies to new ws, you have to make choices, you can't be the "best" in every job.

Can you change the language of your client, or does it auto-detects the settings on your Square-Enix account?

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Originally Posted by Zhronne

That's not true, you can unlock them all and have a free upgrade to spend on one of them.
What you can't do is get them all to max level, which is something I don't like either but I guess we'll learn to accept.

Really do hope they'll increase the category limit from 15 to something higher though, 20 or 25 for example.

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That is what i mean. The fact remains you can only be on one weapon at a time so this just seems like forcing the players to limit themselves on how many jobs they will max out or gimp their weaponskill choice by not being able to max out the upgrade. Previously this sort of stuff was less of a problem as general merits were all very minimal but now we are potentially looking at 4 additional merits that will straight out boost your potential straight out. And the high cost makes it impractical to be changing your choice before departing from a home nation <something a few friends do with combat merits>. Knowing the general population i am sure i am not the only one who has more jobs then 3. going further then 3 will mean weaker performance.

edit:
"On the contrary, i understand it can be frustrating, but i like the merit system, and the way it applies to new ws, you have to make choices, you can't be the "best" in every job. "

why should we be limited? since day one this game applied the whole play "any job you wish to play just you have to level it"... unlike most games out there where you need to lvl a whole new character just to play the class. like i said before, can only use 1 weapon at a time so why make the barrier for entry to maximizing the job? by the quoted logic you should only be allowed to do 1 relic or 1 empy or WoE or mythic weapon.

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Originally Posted by Yukichibi

On the contrary, i understand it can be frustrating, but i like the merit system, and the way it applies to new ws, you have to make choices, you can't be the "best" in every job.

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Why do people always say this? What's wrong with all your jobs being as good as possible?

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Originally Posted by Yukichibi

On the contrary, i understand it can be frustrating, but i like the merit system, and the way it applies to new ws, you have to make choices, you can't be the "best" in every job.

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Altough I don't really like this view, I can accept it and respect it. It's not really the same here though. With merits within the same job you have to make choices, but those choices are inside a single job.
You don't get a limit like "if you got merits for MNK, WAR and SAM then you won't be able to get merits for WHM".
Which is quite the case for weaponskills.

Once again, I'm fine with the limit, but they should make it a bit higher, like 20! That would be 4 different maxed up WS, I'd call myself satisfied on such a comrpomise.

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Originally Posted by brayen

Knowing the general population i am sure i am not the only one who has more jobs then 3.

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This issue goes beyond that, seeing as some jobs can access to NINE (9) WSs, take WAR for example.
MNK can access H2H, Club and Staff.
Sam can access Great Katana, Polearm and Archery.
And so on.

I can understand SE developers wanting to put a limit there, they just need to make it higher.

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Originally Posted by Insaniac

Why do people always say this? What's wrong with all your jobs being as good as possible?

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Exactly! The thing wrong with the merit system is that it goes completely against FFXI in every way possible. The whole job system is based about never having to be forced to compromise or settle down on one job, even temporarily, because you can always just go home to a Moogle and instantly change!

I don't mind "earning" the weapon skills via a merit point system, but if they're going to do that, they better have each be fully upgradable. Anything less is a disgrace to the job system they designed.

Edit: I want to make this very clear to SE reps reading this. This is unacceptable. I don't care if it takes one hundred merits per weapon skill to upgrade if it means we can upgrade them all, but limiting us is wrong. Shooting the job change system in the face is not good policy.

What i meant, is that you can't get specialized in every aspect, if we could it wouldn't be a specialization anymore.

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Originally Posted by Insaniac

Why do people always say this? What's wrong with all your jobs being as good as possible?

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Why do people always say this ? What's wrong with making choices and make certains aspects of your jobs as good as possible ?

It's an impossible debate, since there will always be pro and con.

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Originally Posted by Economizer

Exactly! The thing wrong with the merit system is that it goes completely against FFXI in every way possible. The whole job system is based about never having to be forced to compromise or settle down on one job, even temporarily, because you can always just go home to a Moogle and instantly change!

I don't mind "earning" the weapon skills via a merit point system, but if they're going to do that, they better have each be fully upgradable. Anything less is a disgrace to the job system they designed.

Edit: I want to make this very clear to SE reps reading this. This is unacceptable. I don't care if it takes one hundred merits per weapon skill to upgrade if it means we can upgrade them all, but limiting us is wrong. Shooting the job change system in the face is not good policy.

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EXACTLY this is what has me disappointed on the new WS. If they are intent with keeping us limited at least make it less limited then this, only being able to max out 3 is very limiting out of 14 skills. As i have pointed out, you are already limited to one weaponskill when in combat so i see no point in this.

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Originally Posted by Yukichibi

What i meant, is that you can't get specialized in every aspect, if we could it wouldn't be a specialization anymore.



Why do people always say this ? What's wrong with making choices and make certains aspects of your jobs as good as possible ?

It's an impossible debate, since there will always be pro and con.

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How is it not a specialization anymore? you have to have the job leveled, and the combat skill, THEN you also have a quest. The fact that yes those are all attainable goals for anyone should not limit the fact that people wish to have more jobs then 3 in a specific field. There is no con to allowing players to have access to all the weaponskills. In the end of it all, you can only perform one weaponskill at a time, unlike job merits where you can use both JA that have recast timers on them or hp merits that are always active, etc.

I don't mind only being able to improve three of the new weaponskills to the point of "not sucking that horribly" through merits, but using merits to unlock them will be a miserable experience if these weaponskills ever become part of any proc system.

Like a good conspiracy theory about lizard people eating non-lizard people, everything is connected!

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Originally Posted by brayen

I really dislike the way they did these WS. The fact that you are stuck unlocking only 3 or if you are to unlock more you rightfully gimp them all. You can only be on one weapon skill table at a time so this is just trying to force players to specialize on fewer jobs.

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I was actually kind of hoping thats how t3 merits would be. Make them so powerful that they can only justify you getting it for 3 jobs.

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Originally Posted by Dfoley

I was actually kind of hoping thats how t3 merits would be. Make them so powerful that they can only justify you getting it for 3 jobs.

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The thing is those are tied to individual jobs, these are weapon specific, so not really tied to anything, sort of like attribute, you are forced to pick one. So for example: i can unlock GA, GK, and Polearm, and max them out but then i am left with nothing for my MNK and PUP or i can gimp one of the other jobs just to have access to a gimped out weaponskill and so on.

again really dislike that, they take lots of merits too so i cant just change based on the job i will be using before i exit my mog like i do with combat merits already.

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Originally Posted by Zhronne

Can you change the language of your client, or does it auto-detects the settings on your Square-Enix account?

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The installation language depends of the installer.

I doubt even for the non-Japanese ones only the POL viewer would be enough, one would likely need the installation files for the game and non-downloadable expansions at least as well.

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Originally Posted by Yukichibi

Why do people always say this ? What's wrong with making choices and make certains aspects of your jobs as good as possible ?

It's an impossible debate, since there will always be pro and con.

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"You have SAM?"
"Yes."
"Did you spend months getting perfect gear for it?"
"Yes."
"You have the new WS 5/5?"
"No I maxed HtH Polearm and Bow"
"Please come on another job"

If you take the time to level and gear a job there is no reason you should have to gimp it for the sake of other jobs. There is no upside to forcing people to only max out 3 WSs. This game is content starved and being able to spend and extra ELEVEN-HUNDRED merits on WSs would keep people occupied for quite a while. Just like allowing them to cap all combat and magic merits would. Some things it makes sense to have to chose between like attributes and job specific merits but having some of these WSs could be make or break for a lot of jobs.

So to recap:
No logical upside
Plenty of downsides

Debate over.

I love these new weaponskills

The fact you have cross over like SAM on Bow or even BST on scythe really promotes a variety of play ^^

As for the merit system for them

I agree with it fulyl ^^ (that my opion tho)

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Originally Posted by Insaniac

"You have SAM?"
"Yes."
"Did you spend months getting perfect gear for it?"
"Yes."
"You have the new WS 5/5?"
"No I maxed HtH Polearm and Bow"
"Please come on another job"

If you take the time to level and gear a job there is no reason you should have to gimp it for the sake of other jobs. There is no upside to forcing people to only max out 3 WSs. This game is content starved and being able to spend and extra ELEVEN-HUNDRED merits on WSs would keep people occupied for quite a while. Just like allowing them to cap all combat and magic merits would. Some things it makes sense to have to chose between like attributes and job specific merits but having some of these WSs could be make or break for a lot of jobs.

So to recap:
No logical upside
Plenty of downsides

Debate over.

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You're assuming these WS's are better than the ones we already have. It's going to be hard to beat fudo, ukko, etc. If they do beat those WS then well, this game just got even easier I guess.

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Originally Posted by Economizer

Edit: I want to make this very clear to SE reps reading this. This is unacceptable. I don't care if it takes one hundred merits per weapon skill to upgrade if it means we can upgrade them all, but limiting us is wrong. Shooting the job change system in the face is not good policy.

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Erm... did you forget that it's exactely the same for all other merits?
You can't get 8/8 on more than 4 kinds of weapon
You can't get all the categories inside "Others", you can't get 15/15 on both hp AND mp, you can't merit all attributes, and inside job specific merits you can't max up every single merit.
I mean, this usually doesn't have a huge impact, even more because the majority of those merits are "meh", so there aren't many situations where you'd want all the merits inside each category (altough I can think about a few!).

Not saying I agree with this, just saying you shouldn't be surprised or call this WS limit choice as "unacceptable" or "incoherent".
Seems consistent to the merit system as a whole to me.

But I still think that max 3 maxed up WS is not enough, allowing us to get at least 4 would be a much better compromise imho. WS are definitely way more important and relevant than the majority of other merits are, at least for a DD.

weather they beat the empy or not should be irrelevant, as the main point is that it is making you openly choose to either get all the ones you want or only 3 and let the other jobs you have be forgotten.

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Originally Posted by Zhronne

Erm... did you forget that it's exactely the same for all other merits?
You can't get 8/8 on more than 4 kinds of weapon
You can't get all the categories inside "Others", you can't get 15/15 on both hp AND mp, you can't merit all attributes, and inside job specific merits you can't max up every single merit.
I mean, this usually doesn't have a huge impact, even more because the majority of those merits are "meh", so there aren't many situations where you'd want all the merits inside each category (altough I can think about a few!).

Not saying I agree with this, just saying you shouldn't be surprised or call this WS limit choice as "unacceptable" or "incoherent".
Seems consistent to the merit system as a whole to me.

But I still think that max 3 maxed up WS is not enough, allowing us to get at least 4 would be a much better compromise imho. WS are definitely way more important and relevant than the majority of other merits are, at least for a DD.

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That was always a problem as well, the difference is that with those other merits you had were a lot more minimal then these. You are unlocking a new skill, something only ever done via job specific merits. Heck if they tied these weaponskills into jobs so that you can pick any 3 per job and just have to re-merit them for all the jobs you have that would even be fine,

I can say from what I saw that a lot of them will at least be competitive with emps. I saw Scythe GS Polearm GK and GA all do 3k+ outside of abyssea. Some of them don't even need to be competitive because they are different types of damage. Gun Club and Staff for example. Then you have situational WSs like dagger which will probably be the go to TA WS plus it has an acc down effect that will probably be amazing for solo or low man tanking.

3k Damage on PA outside of Aby...

Welcome back PA Samurai! :D

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Originally Posted by Insaniac

I can say from what I saw that a lot of them will at least be competitive with emps. I saw Scythe GS Polearm GK and GA all do 3k+ outside of abyssea. Some of them don't even need to be competitive because they are different types of damage. Gun Club and Staff for example.

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Also, the ones that seem really disappointing right now may just use weird formulas that call for odd weaponskill sets. I wouldn't be surprised if Rustythecat has a Tachi: Jinpu thing going on given it's multiple hits along with a mention of magic damage, for example.

Not that the oddballs will ever perform on par with the weaponskills designed to crush skulls into stucco and break boners in twain, but I'm guessing the ideal numbers will be much higher than the random numbers popping up now.

That one may have been a fluke admittedly. I only saw him do it once and then he left.

Courtesy of Spira
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/106...=1#post4915012

All the new level 96 WS's shown on Hume F model.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nOtdsGbjsU

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Originally Posted by Aleste

Courtesy of Spira
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/106...=1#post4915012

All the new level 96 WS's shown on Hume F model.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nOtdsGbjsU

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To bad us english players/na players cant use em yet way to go se

Except some clever people figured out how to~

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/106...=1#post4915028

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Originally Posted by Aleste

Except some clever people figured out how to~

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/106...=1#post4915028

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thats cool and all but SE should have it workin some what the first time around

What is the effect of the merit upgrades? Are we talking about [100% + (y * x)] or [22.5% * (y * x)]?
They did that last one with the RDM G2 merits (ONLY RDM), and it sucks to high heavens.

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Originally Posted by Insaniac

"You have SAM?"
"Yes."
"Did you spend months getting perfect gear for it?"
"Yes."
"You have the new WS 5/5?"
"No I maxed HtH Polearm and Bow"
"Please come on another job"

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Something like this would only happen on viodwatch and only if these new ws are potential procs.

I dont actually mind the specialization since it makes individual characters unique this way. These WS might make way for classes that previously had a sub weapon but couldn't use it effectively because the available weaponskills sucked.

Scythe BST, Club BLU, Marksman THF, Archery SAM etc.

Part of what made Emps bleh is the fact just about everyone has the weaponskills and thus there is no exclusivity to having one thanks to infinite brews and piss-easy mobs. With merit-based WS you get to now choose how you spec your character for 99 and it isn't supposed to be an easy decision - here's where you weed out the leechjobs from the stuff you care about.