Easier Payment Options (08/23/2011)

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If you think SE is perfect about banning people than lol

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I don't. But they are a lot more accurate about it than most people imply. And usually, when they screw up, they own up to it, like they did when they mistakenly cancelled a bunch of accounts for nonpayment when they actually did pay.

It was completely unnecessary to double post, by the way.

Why wouldn't I agree with you about people being careful? If you have any reason to think you might not be playing the game more than a month down the line, you shouldn't put down the money for more than one month.

there were people during the gardening ban that took up to two months to get their accounts back. Some said, "f it" after the first month and just didn't bother.

I don't think those people should be punished by losing out on money as well (not that those did, but I'm referring to those in the future).

I'm putting it as a warning to people. If they want to pay for 4 months ahead, go for it. I'm just putting this out there so they are aware that if something like the gardening bans happen again, they may want to quit after it and then lose out on that extra money.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

I don't. But they are a lot more accurate about it than most people imply. And usually, when they screw up, they own up to it, like they did when they mistakenly cancelled a bunch of accounts for nonpayment when they actually did pay.

It was completely unnecessary to double post, by the way.

Why wouldn't I agree with you about people being careful? If you have any reason to think you might not be playing the game more than a month down the line, you shouldn't put down the money for more than one month.

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How the hell do you know how many people deserved to be banned? Do you work for SE? Because you don't know any of them "Most deserved it"? Unless you can come up with some proof somewhere you're talking out of your ass.

I personally know people who got banned for nothing, I know people that got banned for dumb shit too. There was a lot more that got banned for nothing...

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

How the hell do you know how many didn't?

Again, unless SE is running a charity, they don't just ban people for the hell of it, because they like their money.

I know of no one, even reading through the BG forums and other community sites around the time it happened, that had no part whatsoever in an alliance that broke up to dupe drops. In any case where it only happened once and might have been an accident, they either did nothing or only gave a suspension. If you were part of more than one case of it happening, you were more than likely banned for it.

Then again, maybe my definition of "nothing" and your definition of "nothing" differ. My definition would be "any action that violates the terms of service or code of conduct posted on SE's website." Your definition seems like (this is just my perception "anything except really small violations that may not have been intentional." Violations are violations. It's not "nothing" if they broke the rules, even unintentionally. I don't agree that people should be banned for accidents or mistakes, but it's still not "nothing."

Anyway, by all means, tell me about the "nothing" the people you know got banned for. Can you say with 100% certainty that (in the case of salvage bans) that none of these people you know had any involvement whatsoever with any group/salvage run that, whether they did it intentionally or unintenntionally, broke their alliance under the conditions that would cause items to be duped? Were you watching their computer screens? Do you know for sure they really did "nothing?"

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When did I say anything about salvage bans? I was talking about my 3 gardener friends who got banned for npcing thier shit. Are you that slow that you have to make shit up to try and be right?

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Originally Posted by Tagrineth

No, no, they did. :x

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I have to say, that was kind of funny.

Stories of the STF:
* I know plenty of people banned for the Gardening STF bans.
* I know plenty of people who were and were not banned for the Salvage fiasco.
* I knew a guy who got his mule banned because he server-hopped it with 100mil to buy currency for his Claustrum. Main account un-touched, mule account banned.
* I knew one guy who gamed the chocobo betting system so that he'd have 100% betting accuracy. Instead of releasing it to the community and telling people that it could be done / how to do it (which would have resulted in major inflation), he wrote up a report, sent it to SE, and left all his winnings on the mule. His reward? They deleted his mule, gave him an official warning, and told him never to go into the chocobo circuit again. They have introduced a random component to the races since then.

No one expects them to be perfect, but the appeal system is non-existent unless you know someone and SE's justice is applied so unevenly that it's hard to feel that keeping within the "spirit of the TOS" is really going to protect your account. I was scared as crap when I server-hopped ~90mil last month to buy Alexandrite. That could have been the end of my account.

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When did I say anything about salvage bans? I was talking about my 3 gardener friends who got banned for npcing thier shit. Are you that slow that you have to make shit up to try and be right?

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I'm talking about all bans. Salvage bans are just the easiest to talk about, since they have been disputed far more loudly than these gardening bans. Which the gardening bans are over a much less serious issue (activity with RMT-like behavior). People who appealed these bans got them undone. Actual RMT didn't waste their time. Now, it does still suck, but any legitimate player could have challenged those bans. I will agree that their trigger finger was more loose at that time. But that doesn't mean no one deserved their ban. I'm sure a lot of RMT were killed for every innocent person that was affected.

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No one expects them to be perfect, but the appeal system is non-existent

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It's convoluted, yes, but I wouldn't go so far as to say nonexistent. People have gotten bans reversed, though it took more effort than it should have.

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I was scared as crap when I server-hopped ~90mil last month to buy Alexandrite.

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I don't think anyone should be server hopping purely for economic gain. You should only be changing servers if you don't like your current one and want to move to a different one. The whole reason there's a time restriction on it is because they don't want you to go back and forth. Apparently, 3 months wasn't long enough to prevent that.

I like how we keep talking about the gardening bans and all Alh can do is keeping mention the salvage bans even though we stated several times that isn't the same thing.

You do know they aren't the same right Alh?


No one is saying they banned innocent people during the duping. The gardeners had nothing to do with duping or salvage.

You are the only one talking about the salvage bans in an attempt to what? Argue with yourself?

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

I'm talking about all bans. Salvage bans are just the easiest to talk about, since they have been disputed far more loudly than these gardening bans. Which the gardening bans are over a much less serious issue (activity with RMT-like behavior). People who appealed these bans got them undone. Actual RMT didn't waste their time. Now, it does still suck, but any legitimate player could have challenged those bans. I will agree that their trigger finger was more loose at that time. But that doesn't mean no one deserved their ban. I'm sure a lot of RMT were killed for every innocent person that was affected.

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But you're the only one talking about salvage bans. Nobody said anything about those people not deserving it. You just chose to ignore what everyone else is saying it seems.

The only reason you choose Salvage bans as an easier situation to talk about because it's impossible to dispute that a majority of those players are cheating, thus supporting your argument that SE is majority right. Of course if you leave situations that weren't as sudden as however many thousands of accounts banned at once, but still routinely affecting the population of the game in a steady stream as opposed to all at once, then of course it doesn't sound like they have an off track record with banning at all.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

But that doesn't mean that every ban or even most of them were unjustified.

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hey guess what? It doesn't mean that every ban or even most of them were justified either.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

But that doesn't mean that every ban or even most of them were justified.
You can't just assume that everyone was guilty just because you know someone that was.

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You realize when you speak in abstracts it makes it this easy to turn your case on you?

*Edit*
Doh, beaten.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

I don't think anyone should be server hopping purely for economic gain. You should only be changing servers if you don't like your current one and want to move to a different one. The whole reason there's a time restriction on it is because they don't want you to go back and forth. Apparently, 3 months wasn't long enough to prevent that.

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Well, first off, <insert "it's my $50" defense here>.

Next, there isn't 92 mil worth of Alexandrite on the market on my server. If I can bag that much on another server and finish faster, then why not? Server transfers are a tool. Some people use them to escape their reputation, and some people use them to buy things not available on their own server. Your opinion on the subject isn't particularly relevant.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

But that "turning of the case" does nothing, because the turned argument isn't any better or worse. all it does is waste another post.

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But it is better, most of us actually know people who got banned. You, on the other hand, do not.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

But that "turning of the case" does nothing, because the turned argument isn't any better or worse. all it does is waste another post.

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It shows how much a waste of your post was too.

Derailed topic much? lol

In reference to the topic "Easier Payment Options", I'm glad to see that SE has at least acknowledged the problems with the new payment system, and I'm pleasantly surprised to see they've postponed the transfer deadline.
I don't say this often, but good for you SE!

nope.

10char

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Originally Posted by Romanova

nope.

10char

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wait, you are still going to pay the subscription fee even though you already said that you don't want to waste your time on either this game or FFXIV?

You got what you wanted from all that butthurt you have been posting for near a month now. But you still state you are going to quit.

If you are going to do us all the pleasure of quitting, please hurry up with it.

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Originally Posted by Korpg

If you are going to do us all the pleasure of quitting, please hurry up with it.

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I'd be much happier if you were the one to quit, you're nothing short of annoying/pretentious/self-righteous in every single post that you make.

Good job to everyone who did speak up on this subject. I hope it applies to everyone, including EU. :)

Very happy to hear about these changes.

So, I can just continue to buy enough crysta, then when the the new direct payment option is in place, switch to that after using up all my crysta.

It was just a matter of time, SE isn't stupid, they just pulled a bit of a boner at first. I for one thank them for the apology.

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Originally Posted by Octaviane

Except that now the Forum Troll has a good reason to say "see you next month." He has been a total a** about the whole thing because it hasn't affected him, but just hide and watch when something happens that he doesn't like.

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I don't hide, I just don't spend all my time with this game and forum.

I'm just surprised that so much hatred has been placed on SE just because changed a system to help alleviate costs to keep this game going, and when enough of you started complaining (most complained about the change, a very select few complained about not being able to pay for this game anymore), that is when they decided to look into their new system to see if there was really a problem. Which they have found, apparently.

Yeah, this doesn't effect me, because I don't base my judgement on others without doing at least a courtesy research into the problem. If they announced that they are doubling the price to pay for this game, then yeah, I would be mad too. If they announced that everyone who's character's name started with a K will automatically be banned for the game just for having their character name that started with a K, you would just state that you shouldn't have had your name start with a K and you should just transfer over to a new server to change your name, because it wouldn't effect you. Then who would be trolling who? By your definition....

See you next month though. Which is what I have been saying all this time.

Everything here just reminds me of the post I saw on AH the other day. "Everyone on the official forums is so SUPER ANGRY all the time." Lets relax now its just a game :3

U mad community? <3 with much love as always I get a kick out of some peoples fights.

Annnyway I'm interested to see exactly what SE plans to do about payment methods.

So I have a question...I had already done the SE account transfer and registered my CC with ClickandBuy instead of opting for Crysta, so can I just switch to Crysta and be okay or am I already screwed since ClickandBuy already has my CC info? *I did all this BEFORE I read and heard about all the bad PR ClickandBuy has* I'm really glad SE decided to extend the deadline but now I feel like I really shot myself in the foot by transferring so early.

Greetings!

It appears as though this discussion has gone a bit off topic. Although I will not be locking it at this time I must ask that we please return this discussion back to its original intent!

Sadly, if the conversation continues to deviate from its intended subject, we will need to close it out.

Thank you for your cooperation and apologies for any inconvenience!

-=Game Master Emdub=-

It's probably a silly question, but can a mod or a community rep give any information if these payment adjustements are also intended for Europe costumers?

WEll I'm glad they actually took into account the amount of ppl saying that the way to pay was not in the best interest for SE. GRant it some have already switched but atleast for those they can switch back once the new impliments happen

Cool. I was never troubled personally by the changes, but I'm still happy to hear that something is being done.

I hope the new options work out better for people in countries not supported or barely supported by the current options.

I want to take the opportunity to thank Square-Enix for actually listening and responding properly to the situation. It took a little while, but in the end I think they delivered admirably. Assuming the new payment options work in a smooth way (which I suspect they will for once), I will enjoy continuing my FFXI subscription in the coming months.

And note to anyone who thinks I'm being overly generous with my praise: I think it's important to show proper appreciation when a company actually listens to its customers. Gaming companies in general these days don't seem nearly as responsive as they used to be; while this isn't a perfect situation, it's been vastly improved. For that, SE deserves credit; let's hope it's a sign of things to come.

I want to take the opportunity to thank Square-Enix for actually listening and responding properly to the situation. It took a little while, but in the end I think they delivered admirably. Assuming the new payment options work in a smooth way (which I suspect they will for once), I will enjoy continuing my FFXI subscription in the coming months.

Sorry to be a Vhailor copycat(fix THF) but it's exactly what I wanted to say(fix THF) almost word for word. So I(fix THF) copy pasted. Whatev!

SE hit a game winning homerun(fix THF) in the bottom of the 9th, 2 out, 0-2(fix THF) count. My loyalty for FFXI(fix THF) will remain intact. Trolls(fix THF) are QQing. All seems back(fix THF) to normal, now. What's next on the to do list?

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You two are cute together. And by the way, under the current system it takes twenty one and a half years for your balance to return to zero.

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Under thte current system it will take a month or two for your balance to return to zero, because the new pay exact option will be available then and you can zero out your balance.

Also I'm pretty sure someone else mathed it out to 8 and a half years, not 21.

Is this game still going to be around in 8 and half years?

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Originally Posted by Kimble

Is this game still going to be around in 8 and half years?

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I don't see any reason for it not to be.

I find it amusing that someone who works for a website that steals information and data gathered/researched by others without citing it also defends policies that were at the most basic level, theft.

At least you're consistent Analhelm

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Originally Posted by Rearden

I find it amusing that someone who works for a website that steals information and data gathered/researched by others without citing it also defends policies that were at the most basic level, theft.

At least you're consistent Analhelm

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inb4 slander.

Also, offtopic.

Yay! Thank you SE for extending the cut off date until the new payment methods are in place. It's nice to know I won't be getting cut off from FFXI next week! /happydance!

This is good news! But what about the people that all ready transferred? Are there any steps we can take to return our accounts to the previous set up we were used to or are we stuck babying the crysta system or click and buy until the auto billing is implemented later on?

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All of the content initially posted by GE to its wikis was created by itself and its users or former users. Any content taken directly from another location does link to its original source., and in any case where I have been made aware of a lack of such linking, I have added links to such sources when verifiable. We have no "policies that were at the most basic level, theft.

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So you are seriously, with a straight face, are going to tell us that at least 50% (and I'm being generous with such a low number) of the information of ffxiclopedia was not directly stolen from either the BGWikia or the Math sticky on the forums? lol

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Originally Posted by Korpg

I don't defend Click and Buy, except the unneeded hatred towards that company by idiots who think that a Google Search is the same as justifiable research. If you are going to hate a company, find a valid reason for hating a company besides somebody posting that their friend of a friend of a relative of a cousin got screwed by somebody using Click and Buy.

Bolded for emphasis.

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This is what happens when I go home and leave the official forum troll to his own devices. I have my own reasons for disliking CnB - my bank raising the red flag through three forms of communication (phone, post, and electronic through the banks internal system) being said reason. So yeah, sound the klaxons and go on red alert, because the company is a pos.

That being said, you're better off on my ignore list. Because I cannot stand you. Not one fraking bit.

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Originally Posted by Aver

This is what happens when I go home and leave the official forum troll to his own devices. I have my own reasons for disliking CnB - my bank raising the red flag through three forms of communication (phone, post, and electronic through the banks internal system) being said reason. So yeah, sound the klaxons and go on red alert, because the company is a pos.

That being said, you're better off on my ignore list. Because I cannot stand you. Not one fraking bit.

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I wouldn't worry about it one little bit. Don't let it spoil your day. :) Just because one person isn't affected doesn't make the rest of the world idiots.

More than enough people did reasonable due diligence when choosing their payment options. Plenty of links were provided in the original thread for people to research. Others trusted that SE knew what they were doing and went with it. Even more went into panic mode and chose perhaps the only option open to them. They are not idiots either, just a tad foolish for being in a big hurry at worst. When problems were encountered, they were reported in this and other Forums and SE finally acknowledged them. It just remains to be seen if the same message has been delivered to EU affected people and regions where no options were available at all.

The point is that the community came together to express it's collective opposition based on factual information provided by players such as yourself, and that is commendable.