Comet/Meteor

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Originally Posted by Eric

I'm from the planet where people who play MMORPGs, actually you know. . . play with other people, not solo. And of course they're the best soloers in the game--gotta adapt because nobody wants them in their parties.

But it's fine. Solo all you want. Would rather not deal with people like you in my alliances. While you're off soloing trivial NMs and mobs, I'll be busy actually contributing something.

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While the mods were so kind as to delete a minor point of my post, you still contribute as much as that post (which coincidentally the reason why it was deleted was because it wasn't following the point of the thread...k).

I have several well geared jobs, and when I feel like soloing something, be it a mission, quest, or NM, I'll gear up SMN. When I want to be in a group situation, SMN would be the last choice in that job. Thanks for assuming that I am a SMN only player though.

The people who wished to talk to are those who only have SMN (or think SMN are melee jobs) and contribute to the party by creating more risk and also become a MP sponge for the WHM (see: Dallas).

But thank you for your post in the matter.

As a side note, when will we know what the 2 hour spells for SCH are?

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Originally Posted by noodles355

Saying Squall dies doesn't really spoil the game because it's down to your own interpretation as to whether he dies or not.

It's not like I said Tidus dies or anything... oh whoops.

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Tidus died before the game event started... that's an irrelevancy.

Frankly, I'd like to see the return of more retro spells to FFXI.

I don't think BLM should get Comet -and- Meteor -- but since we do, they should definitely be Light and Dark Ancient Magic -- if anything. I'm guessing since we get those SCH is going to get Ultima (Which is great for me, as I have both jobs.)

Comet is one target

Meteor is AoE

Ultima should be for BLM too. SCH shouldn't specialize in anything, but be rounded enough to Nuke well and Cure well. They don't need more nukes, they need more cures.

Horadrim, you are one of the few who knows a compromise (and balance and sense to boot). Its funny that so many people scream for SCH to get unique spells and to not get the BLM/WHM ones (Ultima isn't a BLM spell since it not even in the game so you really can't make claims as if it were theirs)

Also Snape Kills Dumbledore!!!

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Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

Comet is one target

Meteor is AoE

Ultima should be for BLM too. SCH shouldn't specialize in anything, but be rounded enough to Nuke well and Cure well. They don't need more nukes, they need more cures.

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Except they can do neither.

I was a career SCH before the cap raise, and even then SCH had a hard time keeping up with a good WHM. The only reason we were desired was because no one was seriously playing WHM because of how much more longevity and utility RDM had (and because of the things SCH ended up being able to do.)

SCH has -nothing- right now. We get beat out by WHM when it comes to healing and have no chance of keeping up. WHMs can cure effortlessly in situations where I have to constantly burn charges to try and compete with. RDM maintains its status as the most MP efficient mage while simultaneously being able to deal solid damage and issue out potent DoTs. BLM shatters all nuking precepts of SCH and makes a joke out of SCH's attempts more often than not -- even in the best geared situations outside of Abyssea.

SCH doesn't have anything worthwhile to offer compared to WHM and BLM, which are both completely available at just about any time as a result of Abyssea's weakness targeting. SCH needs some major boons to be able to compete on either side of the spectrum, ESPECIALLY healing. Right now, there's no reason to take a SCH over BLM or WHM.

Hit the nail on the head, so to speak. But sadly people won't believe you Horadrim.

Hold the phone, SCH single nukes can do much more DMG than BLM can.

You SCHs need to realize something. You are not meant to be the best at healing OR nuking. You are supposed to be the best at doing both at the same time.

BLM: Master of damaging spells.
WHM: Master of healing spells.
SCH: Great at being a weak BLM and WHM, but never surpassing either.

Why do you guys think that you deserve to be better than a BLM at nuking or a WHM at healing? You are already better than a BLM at healing and a WHM at nuking. Just enjoy that.

Another advantage was also in being to nuke more often than Blm at 75 without having to rest, now Blm has Elemental Celerity/Emp+2 set bonus and /rdm to keep mp up alot better then they used to. still have issues if procing grellow sometimes due to spell casts/having to recast often due to mob using TP/Spell spam etc.

TP spam can be averted by only having the tank on the NM in question.

Spell spam, just cast right after the mob cast a spell.

That assumes the blm is competent, and is also the reason I don't like PUG groups. So glad to be pretty much done with them.

BLM/SCH is epic for proccing. Doesn't get better than that, and IMO you save way more MP than /RDM nets you.

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Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

BLM/SCH is epic for proccing. Doesn't get better than that, and IMO you save way more MP than /RDM nets you.

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True, but I really don't want to level SCH from 37 to 49. Although I should now since I have WHM leveled and geared.

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Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

BLM/BRD is epic for proccing.

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Fixed that for you.

BLM/BRD is completely gimping your BLM. I never like to gimp anything.

Ask me to sub something other than /SAM on DRG DRK WAR. I dare you.

BLM/BRD is only for when you absolutely need 100% yellow procs. I rather go with 5/6 (or 4/6 to cut down on the number of people) yellow procs than alliance fight stuff and everyone just happens to want what I want, even on my pop(s).

Depends how resistant the target is too, sometimes you can never land threnody

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Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

Depends how resistant the target is too, sometimes you can never land threnody

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You only use BRD spells in case you tried all others and you know it is BRD. Then you ES and go for Threnody.

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Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

BLM/BRD is completely gimping your BLM. I never like to gimp anything.

Ask me to sub something other than /SAM on DRG DRK WAR. I dare you.

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Gimp true, but that has no bearing what-so-ever. You're not there to kill, you're there to proc.

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Originally Posted by Korpg

You only use BRD spells in case you tried all others and you know it is BRD. Then you ES and go for Threnody.

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Sometimes they resist even with Elemental Seal added. Depends on the monster and the elemental type they are and the elemental proc.

If you are talking about Orthrus, then yeah, he resists all types of dark and light spells, including threnodies.

Honestly a BRD is invaluable to a group. I'd take one over a BLU in a heartbeat, even if that means I lose that one proc.

No one seems to be a good BRD anymore though.

Considering I have both leveled...somewhat, I will always be a BLU than a BRD....mostly because BRD is at 73, naked, and will forever be dead in my mind.

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Originally Posted by Korpg

Considering I have both leveled...somewhat, I will always be a BLU than a BRD....mostly because BRD is at 73, naked, and will forever be dead in my mind.

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People would rather play BLU, but BRD is, at least in my opinion, the most useful job in the game.

You know what, I think that Comet and Meteor should be quested spells, instead of buying them from NPCs or finding them in Gold Boxes.

Oh I agree and think they should do the same with all the "best" magics (Mighty Guard, Ultima, Comet, Meteor, etc)

Mighty Guard will be a BLU spell, if anything.

Don't expect to see it under SCH category.

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Originally Posted by Korpg

Mighty Guard will be a BLU spell, if anything.

Don't expect to see it under SCH category.

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It better be a BLU spell.

Quested? IDC. Maybe a solo BCNM that you learn it 100% afterwards. Nothing wrong with that.

It's only Protect+Shell AoE usually anyway.

Mighty Guard isnt going to happen when SE has Barrier Tusk lined up to be the Pro/Shell cast for BLU.

White Wind is still up in the air but Mighty Guard looks like its going to be passed over.

I wasn't saying it was SCH, I was merely considering it to be one of the best magics and therefore should be quested (yeah make BLU have to learn it from a quest monster, just make the spell 100% chance to learn upon completing the battle).

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Originally Posted by Sparthos

Mighty Guard isnt going to happen when SE has Barrier Tusk lined up to be the Pro/Shell cast for BLU.

White Wind is still up in the air but Mighty Guard looks like its going to be passed over.

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I thought Harden Shell will be the super def spell we are going to learn though.

Barrier Tusk included would be sweet though.

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Originally Posted by Korpg

You SCHs need to realize something. You are not meant to be the best at healing OR nuking. You are supposed to be the best at doing both at the same time.

BLM: Master of damaging spells.
WHM: Master of healing spells.
SCH: Great at being a weak BLM and WHM, but never surpassing either.

Why do you guys think that you deserve to be better than a BLM at nuking or a WHM at healing? You are already better than a BLM at healing and a WHM at nuking. Just enjoy that.

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Yeah, I'll enjoy doing that in the parties I can't get because WHMs and BLMs are so readily available.

Its not about being "Better" than anyone. There is no occasion where being a "Weak BLM or WHM" is a "great" thing, you're either invited to nuke or you're invited to main heal -- jumping between the two isn't an effortless thing and actually takes time that could land someone dead in crunch time, unless you don't care about being efficient at all; which defeats all of the bonuses of being a SCH if you decide to cure in DA or nuke in LA.

Its not about being better than WHM or BLM, its about being competent and desirable. Why take a SCH over a BLM if you need damage or procs? Black Mage has significantly more procs and despite people's claims, will easily beat out a SCH in serious nuking unless the SCH has a distinct gear advantage. Why take a SCH over a WHM if you need healing when WHM can induce Stoneskin with a cure or heal massive amounts of Damage with Cure V and Cure VI that SCH can't even shake a stick at.

I love the job, but frankly there's no situation where another job is available that you would want a SCH. Having a bunch of time-limited job abilities you have to spam to augment your efficiency is more an encumbrance than a boon when things get down to the wire.

All I want for the job is something to make it more unique and potent AT BEING A MIDDLE GROUND MAGE, because right now I feel like I could main heal better as PUP/SCH than I could as SCH/RDM.

And lets not even get into the ridiculously huge spell/ability list that takes of two full sets of macros and somehow still doesn't get the job done.

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Originally Posted by Korpg

I thought Harden Shell will be the super def spell we are going to learn though.

Barrier Tusk included would be sweet though.

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Both are in the .dats but granted what Barrier Tusk does for Marids, its likely that spell will be Pro/Shell. Harden Shell could be a Cocoon II.

Good for you Horadrim.

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Originally Posted by Sparthos

Both are in the .dats but granted what Barrier Tusk does for Marids, its likely that spell will be Pro/Shell. Harden Shell could be a Cocoon II.

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I meant having both Harden Shell and Barrier Tusk on at the same time. Which by the sounds of it, might be possible.

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Originally Posted by Horadrim

Its not about being better than WHM or BLM, its about being competent and desirable.

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That is very true. I play both WHM and BLM and I don't want my SCH being better at their jobs than they are. I do want it to be competent though. Right now, SCH is a good nuker and will be better once our spell list gets flushed out. The healing side is lacking on some content, but that is true for RDM and a couple simple changes would take care of that.

I'm interested in flushing out an area where SCH can truly shine. The Animus spells were a great idea and something I really wanted. They were not implemented well at all. Have them work like helices and decrease/increase a % of enmity over time and have it make a noticeable effect. SE seems interested in adding a lot of enmity related abilities for SCH, THF and PLD but they need to make them worth using. If the combination of these 3 jobs could work together to allow DD's to do more damage on some of these harder HNMs without sitting at the hate cap, then that could be a situation where it would be worth inviting them. It would also help with hate reset moves. There is a niche here but the mechanics have to support it.

The TP spells also sounded like great ideas. Aldoquium is too weak. That is why no one uses it. The TP enfeebles need to be potent.

Lastly, give us a new Klimaform type spell that adds buffs to party members based on their current weather and fix Modus Veritas and I'll be a very happy monocole wearing Taru.

A mage skilled in both black and white magic that is capable of controling the flow of enmity in battle and manipulating monster and ally TP sounds like a job worth playing to me, Comet or not!

You can Manifestation > Klimaform (pretty sure they get the bonus if they have a -storm spell on them). Just to make a note, although it would be great if Klimaform had a longer duration OR a shorter recast timer (its what 3min? that's just ridiculous)

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Originally Posted by Sparthos

Mighty Guard isnt going to happen when SE has Barrier Tusk lined up to be the Pro/Shell cast for BLU.

White Wind is still up in the air but Mighty Guard looks like its going to be passed over.

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Pretty sure in that recent .dat video that was released on youtube the last spell cast was mighty guard.

Same animation - Big Green crystal-wall thingy following the standard BLU casting animation. That's going to suck something fierce to farm...


We're getting off topic here though, again. I'd like to see SCH get some more functionality out of Libra, though not really sure how they could add to that other than perhaps lowering the recast. Some spells to affect enmity directly (similar to BRD's merit songs) would be wonderful as well.

SCH is supposed to use both White & Black magic, but who says they have to emulate WHM & BLM? I'd much rather see more SCH only spells that distinguish them from the rest of the mages.

OuShiroHeart posted the SCH 2-hour spells here:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post156535

Looks like no Ultima, but I can't complain that it's possibly called Merton instead :) I'm very happy they at least look like something unique to SCH and not Comet or Meteor.