Question for Devs regarding cleave

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Originally Posted by samusaron

If you Can Charge people to Levell them up and have from 3 to 10 Hour's spare in your Rl , then the Question one need to ask is , Why do you have so much time to do this and is this your Full time occupation ? there are other eans to make Gil in Game and especially it seem's you have so much time on your Had's to do so evidently.

RMT Behaviour is exactly that , it is their full time occupation in game to make Gil and to sell period. there is no fine line to read.If you charge people to play for levelling them , then you are an RMT. What do you do with Gil ? Sell it? Afcause you do.

Normal players play the game for Fun and do not have 3>6>9 hour's to Burn making money and if you do this you are RMT is this Clear enough ?

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I have had friends working on relics charge for cleaves on weekends and such as an alternative to farming Dynamis for currency. I have also had friends working on Empyrean weapons do the same while they cleave to build up time for themselves in the zone as get amber lights going for key items. These parties typically do not last the same length as the RMT advertised ones. On our server there are regular shouts for 11 hour afk parties which I suspect are RMT. The "legit" ones are generally 3-5 hours because the players doing those typically want to actually get to doing whateever their goal in game was :)

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Originally Posted by Lokithor

So, players are free to provide power levelling, same as RMT, but if they participate in an RMT organized power leveling activity, whether they know them as RMT or not, they can be banned? Only SE thinks that it is OK to kick out paying customers in the face of a declining player base. Awesome.

Maybe you should think of ways to control RMT that do not involve bystander casualties. Just a thought.

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Maybe you should just find other ways to level up? Just a thought.

I find that the non-fodder RMT characters have a bit less nonsensical names than usual, and lack of ex equipment could also just mean they're a recently abyssea burned legit character :p

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Originally Posted by Kikorimo

Nerfing cleave would do nothing because AoE exp burns have been around for years, even before level 80+ and fell cleave. Remember summoner burns? There is also Aeolin edge and Cataclysm burns as well as blu "cleave."
Just my 2 cents in regards to the "nerfing one weaponskill will solve all the problems" train of thought. Fell Cleave is currently just the most popular method is all.

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<3 SMN Burns >.> anyway yes they do need to nerf fell cleave, but everyone does bring up a good point, esp with the direction that the producer wants to take in this game, it only seems logical to keep fell cleave as it is... but pertaining to your question,

"Please be aware that advertising in such a manner in itself can be disrupting to other players and we may take action against players who continuously advertise for the above kind of parties. This also includes behavior that helps facilitate such activity. Please take caution in not supporting RMT-related activity"

Since there are some "fair" FC parties I think they would be ok, however the STFU is usually responsible for checking out RMT related activity, so in conclusion I believe that non-RMT related Fell Cleave parties will be ok.

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Originally Posted by samusaron

If you Can Charge people to Levell them up and have from 3 to 10 Hour's spare in your Rl , then the Question one need to ask is , Why do you have so much time to do this and is this your Full time occupation ? there are other eans to make Gil in Game and especially it seem's you have so much time on your Had's to do so evidently.

RMT Behaviour is exactly that , it is their full time occupation in game to make Gil and to sell period. there is no fine line to read.If you charge people to play for levelling them , then you are an RMT. What do you do with Gil ? Sell it? Afcause you do.

Normal players play the game for Fun and do not have 3>6>9 hour's to Burn making money and if you do this you are RMT is this Clear enough ?

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Okay so what you're saying is people don't have 3-9 hours to burn? Just to let you know there are people who actually do and for the right reasons they might spend that time FC'ing. If you consider that a lot of people buy a place in FC parties and charge 100k per hour which is entirely possible, you could make ~18 mil in 10 hours which would pay for 1/3-1/4 of a relic stage 4 or 5, in 1 day! I think that's a good reason to spend 10 hours doing the same boring thing over and over.

Also just to add, people might have friends that want to help, and for a cut of the profits might join in the FC to take over after 4-5 hours giving you time to rest so although you're advertising for 10 hours, you're not actually cleaving for the whole 10 hours.

It is hard for SE to differentiate between RMT and genuine players without a few "casualties" but FC'ing is fine imo, and if people are willing to pay for it there shouldn't be anything wrong with it. I don't personally sell FC services before you say anything, simply because I'm not the sort of person who could do the same old thing for so many hours even if I do get paid, but some people would and I agree with their reasons and they shouldn't be classed as RMT.

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

Greetings,

To clarify the situation -- normal players will not get in trouble for advertising power leveling services on their own.

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If you have no problem with players doing FC pts to power level, then why was the 10 mob at once limit imposed (seriously hurting blu CW)???

There are also married couples/siblings that play ffxi, among the married, there are likely stay at home parrents, who yes, in fact, have 10+ hours to play ffxi, due to children being in school for 7+ hours and largely self-sufficient. Pair this with as was stated, people passing off the control of the character to another friend/family/spouse/etc to resume the task, this is very much realistic. In fact i actually encountered one cleaver on 3 separate occasions on sylph here, and 2 of the times it was actually his wife doing the cleave on his character. Had some short and lengthy conversations with them over it actually, they were in fact working on 2 relics up to the 99 stage. So while its unlikely, its just as plausible that these individuals are not conducting "real Money Transactions" and are simply using this activity to fund their in game activities. Not that any legitimate player needs to come on here and justify their activities to the penut gallery.

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Originally Posted by Godofgods

If you have no problem with players doing FC pts to power level, then why was the 10 mob at once limit imposed (seriously hurting blu CW)???

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tbh although yes I know it does hurt CW :( it is a little better of an idea, that way you don't step on other player's toes by taking mobs they are trying to farm, esp when it comes to PIs for nms, just sayin.

So it's OK for us to FC as players but we'll be investigated for doing so? Awesome.

The 10 mob limit is completely ignored by regular FCers, so was that just put in to discourage small groups? I can't help but notice that duos and trios are most highly affected by this change, large paid alliances are not. Yay Square, sticking it to the common player in response to RMT!

Yeah this really is not okay. RMT means Real Money Trade. It doesn't refer to earning lots of gil. There are so many things wrong with the way SE bans people. For example:

There really isn't a review process. If a player was just given a chance to write a paragraph explaining that they are a 9 year player with 3 relic weapons and 5 empyreans who charges people to kill Apademak because he happens to be able to do it as an ochain/aegis/almace paladin without using a brew, they should not be banned just because they made 300m in a week and played 16 hours a day while they were on summer vacation and having a bipolar episode where they experienced insomnia. This player is not doing "Real Money Trade" and they are likely going to buy alexandrites or relic currency with their gil, which is probably where their "clients" got their gil in the first place. There may be some farce of a review process, but I have 2 friends that have been banned for making too much gil in a short period of time by selling services like Empyrean farming and Epona's rings/Zelus Tiaras, and they were definitely not RMT, they were making mythics.

Secondly, there is nothing worse than a manager at a workplace that punishes you before telling you what you that what you were doing was wrong. "You aren't getting your bonus because you didn't hit your sales goals, here are the goals for you that I made during the review process" RMT activity appears to be an instant ban process, with no temp ban unlike third party tools. It makes perfect sense that this would be the case for real RMT players, but the innocent casualties are similar to doling out the death penalty without a rigorous review and appeal process. You just wouldn't do it.

In conclusion SE, just rescind your statement about joining Fell Cleave parties and go back to banning people for laundering large amounts of gil. It should be absolutely clear when you permanently ban these players. Go on a temp banning spree as much as you want, but perma ban should be treated like a really big deal. As a side suggestion, the tenure of the character should be a large consideration.