Level 99 Relic, Mythic, Empyrean, and WoE Weapons

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Originally Posted by RushLynx

This is impossible. Let me try one last time.

Some of us have always felt that the effort/reward ratio for REMs was inadequate for us to chase after. We chose to spend our game time doing other things, like helping people and crafting... Filling other gear slots instead, or we preferred another weapon and worked towards obtaining that one. We still built up our characters, we have great armor that should be fine for new content, but there's a problem...

People feel that the new expansion requires REMs, leaving the rest of us on the sidelines, even though we have better gear than some people with REMs do. I see people in town every day with upgraded relics while the rest of their equipment is a joke. That's bad prioritizing in my opinion. I feel that this isn't the way that it should be, and that by giving in and upgrading them at this point, it would only perpetuate the idea that REMs are required for end-game content, they're not, and they shouldn't be... they never have been. I understand that some of you felt that the effort/reward ratio was adequate when you built your REM, but that's how these games work. Things get replaced. It has literally always been that way every time a new expansion was released.

Do I think those of you with REMs should suffer? No, I don't. But I see an overwhelming sense of false superiority in these forums from REM holders, constantly suggesting that those of us without REMs somehow don't deserve the opportunity to take part in new content just because we didn't spend our time upgrading the same slot or grinding through the same content as you did.

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Then I make it simpler for you. Why don't you lead your own events and pick whoever you want, make something like a NO REM run?

Delve weapons are the new r/m/e. Take a look around Adouin almost everyone has one now. Seems like its just gear progression.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

There is absolutely no reason why the RME weapons can't be upgraded to an equal or slightly stronger form than the delve weapons themselves via drops from delve thus facilitating the ability for RME owners to keep their weapons while helping out people who just want delve weapons.

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If the design intent is to level the playing field for real (not cave to cries of "my relic is not the best anymore se plz fix"), then there is no reason for RME to even be involved in Delve in any capacity.

And if you're referring to an old weapon that was implemented several years ago not being relevant to the current content as "suffering", I'm simply going to file that under melodrama. In a way I really wish Blizzard didn't purge the WoW forums every time they change formats. I'd love to paste some of the gems from the vanilla era that mimic the arguments here just using "tier 3/AQ40 gear/Thunderfury/Sulfuras" instead of "RME", and "hellfire peninsula quest greens" instead of "Delve weapons".

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Originally Posted by Duelle

I'd love to paste some of the gems from the vanilla era that mimic the arguments here just using "tier 3/AQ40 gear/Thunderfury/Sulfuras" instead of "RME", and "hellfire peninsula quest greens" instead of "Delve weapons".

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But this isn't WoW. How about I post some whining from an ISPs forums? Equally relevant.

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Originally Posted by Zohno

Then I make it simpler for you. Why don't you lead your own events and pick whoever you want, make something like a NO REM run?

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Well that's a different thread, they shouldn't have released Delve at this point because it was obviously intended (and they've suggested such in their responses) that the entire server had progressed to a different point when they started this content. I.E. it's been largely speculated that Delve strength is inversely proportional to colonization rates, something that requires a collective effort from the server, which isn't going to happen when everyone's throwing themselves at NMs they can just barely kill sometimes. Instead we have people trying to brute force their way through it, and it's logical that they would attempt to find the best of the best in that case. Rather than actually finding some better way of judging player ability, though, they have resorted to simply adding "RME only" to their shouts, which is wrong. Having a RME in no way makes someone a more competent, skillful player. Many RME holders are lacking in literally every other slot because they spent so many resources on their weapons.

Let's see... should I spend several hours every day for months working on a single weapon... or spend the same amount of time filling every other slot instead, for multiple jobs, while I can spam VW and make some gil at the same time to obtain a pulse weapon of similar stature... (I will always choose the second option here, because that's my sense of priority, in my opinion it continues to be the logical choice for someone who only has a that limited amount of time to invest.) Meanwhile, the douche that has 10 relics, is still wearing AF, and has zero skill is the one that gets accepted to shouts while I get ignored, simply because I admit to not having an REM.

So everything else is dead. Even those of us who would rather wait until we can do the content as intended can't find enough people willing to go along with it. NNI groups won't settle for anything except a SCH and REM-melees because they have confused luck with skill. Oftentimes when I try to make a NNI run with my WHM/SCH it's hard to find people that will even try because I'm not a SCH. This sort of thing is something devs should be focusing on, rather than giving in to the demands of RME holders who are starting to realize that their investment might not be so sound after all and are beginning to panic.

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Originally Posted by RushLynx

Well that's a different thread, they shouldn't have released Delve at this point because it was obviously intended (and they've suggested such in their responses) that the entire server had progressed to a different point when they started this content. I.E. it's been largely speculated that Delve strength is inversely proportional to colonization rates, something that requires a collective effort from the server, which isn't going to happen when everyone's throwing themselves at NMs they can just barely kill sometimes. Instead we have people trying to brute force their way through it, and it's logical that they would attempt to find the best of the best in that case. Rather than actually finding some better way of judging player ability, though, they have resorted to simply adding "RME only" to their shouts, which is wrong. Having a RME in no way makes someone a more competent, skillful player. Many RME holders are lacking in literally every other slot because they spent so many resources on their weapons.

Let's see... should I spend several hours every day for months working on a single weapon... or spend the same amount of time filling every other slot instead, for multiple jobs, while I can spam VW and make some gil at the same time to obtain a pulse weapon of similar stature... (I will always choose the second option here, because that's my sense of priority, in my opinion it continues to be the logical choice for someone who only has a that limited amount of time to invest.) Meanwhile, the douche that has 10 relics, is still wearing AF, and has zero skill is the one that gets accepted to shouts while I get ignored, simply because I admit to not having an REM.

So everything else is dead. Even those of us who would rather wait until we can do the content as intended can't find enough people willing to go along with it. NNI groups won't settle for anything except a SCH and REM-melees because they have confused luck with skill. Oftentimes when I try to make a NNI run with my WHM/SCH it's hard to find people that will even try because I'm not a SCH. This sort of thing is something devs should be focusing on, rather than giving in to the demands of RME holders who are starting to realize that their investment might not be so sound after all and are beginning to panic.

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So you think that if the REM stay as they are, everything will be fixed? People will not drop their weapons so nothing will change. Instead, they are increasing. People are still completing REM on my server, maybe hoping for a future fix, maybe because they don't wanna see what they did until now be wasted. Maybe only the shouts will change, since you'll see REMD instead of REM only, but the players mentality will hardly change. They will always look for the most efficient way. If they can make a choice that will increase their winning chance by 10%, they will.
In the future it will be even worse. When there will be a good % of players with delve weapons those shouts will be replaced with D only, reducing even more the amount of players that will be able to join.

Instead of increasing the interest of REM holders in joining the new events so that they can upgrade their weapons, the devs are only killing past events.
REM holders may still be pushed to do the newer events to get the more powerful weapons but with less enjoyment and more frustration since they know that their REM will become a mannequin (if you have one) item after the drop.

so now that golden week is done (i think) are you gonna give us a non insulting fix or keep burying your collective heads? you silly silly ostriches

Ok Rush since you quoted me out of context I'll just put it plainly..... You are a troll and a worthless troll at that. Anyone can finish a relevant Empy for events in 3 weekends with 2-3 friends and the fact that YOU don't have one means YOU don't have a dog in this fight. My suggestion is that if you don't have anything invested just go on your way and quit your griping so that SE doesn't listen to your idiotic opinions and screw up REMs for good for the rest of us. You literally have no idea what you are talking about and for those of us that made an R, relic early on and invested years of our lives, you just sound petty and bitter.

Talk a walk Biquikboy.

I can't speak for how other linkshells are run by for my shell I try to treat everyone the same. Everyone is allowed the opportunity for 1 relic, emp, or mythic if they are willing to put the time into it and wait their turn. What they do with said item after it is their choice. If they just want to depend on the wep only so be it, but I would say those that get one of those weps also focus on the gear to complement the weps to make them stronger.

As for NNI, the issue is the time limit. Since you only have 30 minutes, it only makes sense to go with the highest damage possible/most efficient group possible. When I run NNI, I go with 4dd, brd, sch. Sch still is the best main heal mage for it becuase it has the highest regen. Regen allows DD to perform their job while not having a mage around. Thereby allowing the sch to remain at the lamp. Again this comes out to efficicency sake. If it wasn't for the time limit, the party setups could vary alot. Yes other mages can do /sch, for instance whm, but regen 5 is still better than regen 4. That's not to say with whm/sch it's not possible, but if you want efficiency, sch is greater than whm in this respect.

It comes down to personal wants. Some want the very best and will seak it out and obtain it. I've always said if something is important to you, you make the time. Others are fine with midrange to high lvl gear, which again that is their choice.

So neither choice is right or wrong it depends on ones personal preference. When you help it should be for the sake of helping. It is nice to get help back, but you should not require help when you do help, nor expect help back. Which then comes back to how people were raised.

I reiterate my situation is unique since I play brd and a brds job is total support to live vicariously though others. The game allows us to change to every job so I can understand why people go after multiple REM. I personally don't like REM not being used. It is my view that if you get a REM you should be that job as much as you can as to not let the item go to waste. IE for my Gjallarhorn, I try to be brd as much as I can, as not to let the efforts of those who helped me back at 75 to obtain it.

I know I'm probably in the minority but for my linkshell I prefer to focus on my members first before I get anything as shell leader. It just sounds like some of you have had leaders get things for themselves and their cronies, which I've been in shells like that. That is why when I took shell leader I refused to be that way.

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Originally Posted by RushLynx

No one is preventing RME owners from keeping their weapons. Even if they were nerfed to 1 dmg, still, no one is forcing anyone to toss their weapons. As it stands, though, the only people with access to the new weapons are those with the old weapons, at multiple angles of approach.

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Thi sisn't true, but assuming it was... why would you care? You either don't have an RME. In which case this will not affect you one way or the other. Or, you do have an RME, in which case a bump would benefit you.

In reality, you don't need a 99 RME to get the delve weapons though, so you're whole premise is shot.

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Originally Posted by RushLynx

Judging by people's track record with pretty much anything difficult in this game, I don't see very many people turning around after getting through the new content and saying "Hey guys, let me spend some time to help you through it too." No, they're going to immediately go to the next stuff and proceed with acting like douche-bags. 'Well, I could help you out now, but that sounds like a lot of work... and I need all this stuff for myself...'

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That is why you make delve part of the upgrade process. So that people have a reason to keep doing it. Just like they did with HMPs and riftdross etc. in VW. Hopefully they would do a better job of it this time though (not holding my breathe).

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Originally Posted by RushLynx

There are a lot of people in here who seem appalled by the notion that people simply take and swindle their way to the top in this game. I've played this game for 10 years, and it's pretty much always been that way when it comes to end-game content. What magical land do you people live in, where selfishness and greed aren't predominant traits of humanity?

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They are. They always will be. That has nothing to do with you not having a RME though. That only takes 1-3 people. Even the loudest idiot racist shouting slurs and "Yo Momma" jokes in port jeuno has that many friends. Knock off the sad face crap. Nothing but legion has required an ls since like what? 2010?

You keep saying that the weapons haven't changed and are still exactly the same weapons that we worked so hard for. Okay. The $6/hr that I made washing dishes when I was 16 years old is still the same $6 too.. But if my boss tries giving me that now, I'll punch him so hard he'll wake up back in 1990.

I don't know who touched you in the naughty spot, but life really isn't that full of bad men. Get over it.