Raise the minimum allowable job level in Abyssea from 30 to 70+

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

I don't mind if it gets locked/removed or whatnot, I'm just enjoying watching Starcade embarrass himself.

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He could have done this in his own thread, tbh.

personally, i don't see how soloing makes you any better a player than abyssea keying does. if anything, that just means you know how to deal with a DC mob (on average by average job/subjob), probably don't have an endgame SJ, probably don't know "how to party" endgame style, probably have poor gear choices for your job's strengths, and above all else, are probably more interested in saving your own hide when stuff hits the fan. and if you spent 6 months levelling "the old fashioned way", you still probably have a majority of the above problems. accept that this game is roughly 10 years old now by japanese standards, that gear has come and gone, and that new players are pigeon-holed into being what they are.

take bard for example. you're tought from 1-12 to just save yourself and dont take anything tough. then from 12-24 to sing a few songs here and there and basically cure every now-and-again. and then from 25-54 you have to organize mages. Anyone who played way back remembers that etudes hit the whole group so you'd be doing INT and ballad. then updates happened etc. anyway from 55-75 pre-TOAU ballad II came out so it was a whole different game for bards. then when TOAU happened we were expected to pull, which meant dropping our time-tried /WHM for /NIN. Dynamis had similar expectations.

as a new player, you can't learn everything in under a year, on any job, because its role changes too much with different updates, different content, and different gear additions. there will ALWAYS be something to skill up, some piece of gear you need, some quest to do, some key item you want, some NM you haven't heard of, some combination for your job you haven't thought about, some person you haven't met who will enrich your game experience and on the flipside some other person who will undoubtably enrage you. you're paying monthly for this mixed blessing, and so are the new people. teach them or shut up and don't make it worse for them.

also, if gear on the AH is such a problem for new and low-level players that they won't party outside abyssea and you WANT them to, petition SE to make NPC shop gear more useful and/or more variety for a LOT less gil. make gil easier to come by. and while you're at it, make crafting not suck as a time/money investment. you can't; you can't even come up with solutions for those problems without breaking things elsewhere in the game. don't complain about abyssea leeches and then do nothing to contribute how to make new player's game experience enjoyable. you like to call all the people who are for leeching selfish, but really, whose being selfish making a new player leave because they have no friends, no gear, no cruor, and no parties?

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Originally Posted by Avina

Uh, last I checked, she didn't demand anything. She was explaining what she perceived was a problem and was posting her opinion on it. All she did was say she thinks it should be raised and she gave some reasons for saying that. You know, something that supposedly an online forum is supposed to encourage, and her reply was markedly more polite than any of the replies she got from people who seem apparently terrified to lose their precious exp.

But seriously, take some time to actually read someone's post before you try to spin it in the worst possible way.

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So you're saying she doesn't want to nerf a largely popular way that people like to exp now? The heart of the matter is that the OP and the poor little person you are defending want to subject everyone to their demands. They are literally grasping at straws to make it seem like faster, easier exp is bad.

Ok you want a rebuttal? Fine...

High crystal prices are a good thing because it's easy income for new players that don't have much gil. If you are a crafter that can't afford to buy crystals then there is something seriously wrong and you shouldn't be crafting. If the cost of materials goes up the end product's price goes up the crafter doesn't lose anything unless the market is over saturated.

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines.]

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Originally Posted by Starcade

There at least used to be a "law" which allowed Square-Enix to remove any account which exploited the game in any way in which the creators did not intend. It was basically used as a catch-all to cover any future exploits that the creators didn't think of.




Actually, vis-a-vis FFXI, that's two different concepts. Otherwise, you'd have seen bans for every Souleating DRK or every SCH that annihilated Absolute Virtue. The moves were legal, but they were not considered legitimate. Two different mechanisms.

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One of the things I hate most about some people is that some of them like to THINK they're intelligent and even SOUND like they're intelligent... but they're really not. You're one of them, Starcade.

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Originally Posted by Rubeus

personally, i don't see how soloing makes you any better a player than abyssea keying does. if anything, that just means you know how to deal with a DC mob (on average by average job/subjob), probably don't have an endgame SJ, probably don't know "how to party" endgame style, probably have poor gear choices for your job's strengths, and above all else, are probably more interested in saving your own hide when stuff hits the fan. and if you spent 6 months levelling "the old fashioned way", you still probably have a majority of the above problems. accept that this game is roughly 10 years old now by japanese standards, that gear has come and gone, and that new players are pigeon-holed into being what they are.

take bard for example. you're tought from 1-12 to just save yourself and dont take anything tough. then from 12-24 to sing a few songs here and there and basically cure every now-and-again. and then from 25-54 you have to organize mages. Anyone who played way back remembers that etudes hit the whole group so you'd be doing INT and ballad. then updates happened etc. anyway from 55-75 pre-TOAU ballad II came out so it was a whole different game for bards. then when TOAU happened we were expected to pull, which meant dropping our time-tried /WHM for /NIN. Dynamis had similar expectations.

as a new player, you can't learn everything in under a year, on any job, because its role changes too much with different updates, different content, and different gear additions. there will ALWAYS be something to skill up, some piece of gear you need, some quest to do, some key item you want, some NM you haven't heard of, some combination for your job you haven't thought about, some person you haven't met who will enrich your game experience and on the flipside some other person who will undoubtably enrage you. you're paying monthly for this mixed blessing, and so are the new people. teach them or shut up and don't make it worse for them.

also, if gear on the AH is such a problem for new and low-level players that they won't party outside abyssea and you WANT them to, petition SE to make NPC shop gear more useful and/or more variety for a LOT less gil. make gil easier to come by. and while you're at it, make crafting not suck as a time/money investment. you can't; you can't even come up with solutions for those problems without breaking things elsewhere in the game. don't complain about abyssea leeches and then do nothing to contribute how to make new player's game experience enjoyable. you like to call all the people who are for leeching selfish, but really, whose being selfish making a new player leave because they have no friends, no gear, no cruor, and no parties?

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This is a very well spoken post, Rubeus. ^^

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Originally Posted by Rubeus

hmm.. people are all complaining about relative intelligence by gear choice. This is altogether confusing, because as a THF I gear as a double/triple attack thief with an emphasis on haste and dual wield+. Most mithra thieves gear purely for DEX and ATK. you can't always tell if a person is a "bad player" at first glance without understanding what they've merited and what their gear-swaps are and what they were aiming for. there is no "1 right way" to play a job.

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I agree completely. I'm an Elvaan thf and a player who doesn't place nearly as much emphasis on haste as many other players do. I build my thf on mainly dex, agi, and now chr with str as a secondary emphasis just so I can dps a little harder. dex and agi are obvious, but why chr? Because Dancing Edge is still my all time favorite weapon skill (except in sky... as the sky gods seem to be weakest to Mandalic Stab) and chr helps my Dancing Edge hit harder. I regularly WS for 1300-1500 damage with SA or TA and have sometimes even hit 1700-1800. that's NOT in abyssea areas. I consider that pretty darn good for a thf who isn't a hard core DD like sam or war. I'm not saying that brag... just pointing out that it's not always smart to criticize somebody else's gear choices. Oh yeah, and I'm a DD (war & sam) who tries to balance out gear as best as possible so I DON'T have gear changing macros. Why? Because I like for my mages to actually be ABLE to cure me. Not everybody has windower's Blink Me Not!

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Originally Posted by Naturebeckles

I agree completely. I'm an Elvaan thf and a player who doesn't place nearly as much emphasis on haste as many other players do. I build my thf on mainly dex, agi, and now chr with str as a secondary emphasis just so I can dps a little harder. dex and agi are obvious, but why chr? Because Dancing Edge is still my all time favorite weapon skill (except in sky... as the sky gods seem to be weakest to Mandalic Stab) and chr helps my Dancing Edge hit harder. I regularly WS for 1300-1500 damage with SA or TA and have sometimes even hit 1700-1800. that's NOT in abyssea areas. I consider that pretty darn good for a thf who isn't a hard core DD like sam or war. I'm not saying that brag... just pointing out that it's not always smart to criticize somebody else's gear choices. Oh yeah, and I'm a DD (war & sam) who tries to balance out gear as best as possible so I DON'T have gear changing macros. Why? Because I like for my mages to actually be ABLE to cure me. Not everybody has windower's Blink Me Not!

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^ this. this so hardcore. completely agree.

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Originally Posted by Rubeus

^ this. this so hardcore. completely agree.

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Thanks :)

Oh yeah! And I forgot! I have a couple of eva skill + pieces to use for tanking. I LOVE tanking on my thf/nin. ;)

Overall, reading this long thread made me realize there are legitimate reasons for people to key whore in abyssea. It's kind of like an anology to concept of people who want to screen people and make them do parenting classes before they decide to have kids. In America at least, that's a concept that isn't going to fly, but the idea is the same: the dumb people who shouldn't have kids are like the dumb people who shouldn't be key whoring in abyssea because they need to learn their jobs. But, you can't possibly enforce something that ruins it or take the rights away from people who are perfectly able to be parents/learn their jobs well even while exping in abyssea.

The other thing I learned reading this thread? Starcade spends a lot of energy trying to convince others he's more intelligent than he really is. *giggles*

You act like you're the only one that knows why THFs would want CHR or Evasion. >_>

Sorry, nope. While it's possible that some people may not be aware that CHR is a mod for DE, the evasion gear should be pretty obvious.

It's still fairly easy to tell who is an idiot and who isn't by /checking someone. It may be harder to discern from the avergae to above average yes, but I'm talking about the people who use starting rings at 90, or level 14 ones, or an Ether Ring on a WAR. The people who are beyond stupid and beyond help. Those are easy to pick it. Quite often you don't even need to /check them to see that they're a window licker. Reading their shouts or comments may often be enough, /sea and check their subjob, and even times just look at their name. If I meet someone named Xxxcloudxgokux, chances are, they're absolutely stupid. Or most drug referencing names, really, figuring out who is stupid isn't impossible, and certainly not even hard. Pretending otherwise is silly.