High-res font = yay; Now, how about the title screen?

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Originally Posted by LeaderofAtlantis

4) I did the macro save and switch when I tried playing on my brother's laptop when we were all visiting my mom last Christmas. It didn't transfer my macros over properly and well, my time is limited sometimes and redoing all my macros manually just isn't appealing to me.

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Log in on the PS2 and set yourself onto a blank macro page or, better yet, a blank book. Then back it up to the server.

I don't know why this works, it just does. Just another PS2 bug that will never get fixed.

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Originally Posted by Daniel_Hatcher

So many games use different names for the same thing.

It effects it as the "textures" will look horrible with that style chat area.

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Please explain why.

In This Thead: People don't seem to understand that adding a chat widget doesn't mean that everyone's chat log will be moved over to the side.

All it means is anyone will be able to resize and move their chat log however and wherever they want it, if they want to.

If you like it where it is, keep it there. If you don't, move it. Win-Win.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

Please explain why.

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They're ugly the normal way, uglier this new way.

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Originally Posted by Daniel_Hatcher

So many games use different names for the same thing.

It effects it as the "textures" will look horrible with that style chat area.

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I don't see how they would look any different than they do now. >_>

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Originally Posted by Daniel_Hatcher

They're ugly the normal way, uglier this new way.

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But they look exactly the same either way!

woo!!!
chat box sizing!!!

Camate here to deliver another message from Producer Hiromichi Tanaka!

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Originally Posted by Hiromichi_Tanaka

I’d like to start out with some responses to feedback.

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I think it would work well if we could adjust the width of the log window from both the right and left side. That way, for example, we could place them log window right in the bottom center of the screen.

Is it correct to assume, based on the original image, that it will be adjustable only from the right side? I’d really like it to be adjustable from the left as well.

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We plan on closely monitoring the situation for a while with the current setup as a variety of problems could arise with the compass and action commands/other things that are constantly displayed above the log window, making the settings quite complex.

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Along with the log window change, will there be additional log window backgrounds added? If adding new ones is difficult, I think it would be cool to customize the color just like you do when you select a color for your linkshell.

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We won’t be increasing the variety, but we are thinking it might be good to switch some out. Perhaps we’ll have a survey asking which numbers you would like cut. For now, we will try to see if we can make number 5 a bit darker.

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Personally, I welcome the log window change. Being able to change the number of text lines is helpful.

Will it be possible to add another log window in the space that resizing would create, so we can set up different logs? For example, it’d be really great if we could have one window as the battle log and another one for chat. I’d also really appreciate it if we could customize the size of the text in the log window.

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We are not currently planning multiple windows for “the current system.”

As we are working within the limitations of the current UI, we are a bit limited with the things we can do.
While we are working on things that we can, like the Windows version resolution improvements, we have actually begun looking into completely revamping the entire UI. Of course this is going to take some time, so once I have more information, I will be sure to share it with you.

For our next step, we are planning to address higher resolution text fonts and separate resolution settings for the overlay graphics resolution and menus.

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We won’t be increasing the variety, but we are thinking it might be good to switch some out. Perhaps we’ll have a survey asking which numbers you would like cut. For now, we will try to see if we can make number 5 a bit darker.

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This!!!! The backgrounds are long overdue to be replaced.

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Originally Posted by Camate

While we are working on things that we can, like the Windows version resolution improvements, we have actually begun looking into completely revamping the entire UI.

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That's... that's...
I didn't really read that, did I?
Somebody pinch me please, need to see if I'm awake or dreaming.

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Originally Posted by Camate

For our next step, we are planning to address higher resolution text fonts and separate resolution settings for the overlay graphics resolution and menus.

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All I needed to hear.

No more tiny chat box at 1920x1200!

I'm glad that they are deciding to do this. I think the UI is one of the most important parts of a game. It's the part of the game you stare at the most, and it's also how you make all of your interactions with it.

For chat backgrounds, I'd like to see some semi-transparent black or a Darkshade of blue.

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Will it be possible to add another log window in the space that resizing would create, so we can set up different logs? For example, it’d be really great if we could have one window as the battle log and another one for chat. I’d also really appreciate it if we could customize the size of the text in the log window.

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We are not currently planning multiple windows for “the current system.”

As we are working within the limitations of the current UI, we are a bit limited with the things we can do.
While we are working on things that we can, like the Windows version resolution improvements, we have actually begun looking into completely revamping the entire UI. Of course this is going to take some time, so once I have more information, I will be sure to share it with you.

For our next step, we are planning to address higher resolution text fonts and separate resolution settings for the overlay graphics resolution and menus.

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I think this person is referring to what can be done with FFXIV, I enjoyed the battle and the talking windows... The issue with doing that on FFXI is : in FFXIV the text is on a different server port, the text log keeps working while dcing and you could in theory log in to the chat server remotely....
On FFXI the chat server is shared with the game connection... so that cannot be done on the same stream... oddly if ffxi had the same set up as FFXIV when it came to chatting we could have shouts that work in all cities without a lot of lag...

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Originally Posted by Francisco

For chat backgrounds, I'd like to see some semi-transparent black or a Darkshade of blue.

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I don't know why they can't just give us another window slider for controlling transparency levels.

New UI <<Yes please.>> I love it ^^

Being able to split chat and battle into 2 logs would be omfgamazing. Also, not squinting at my high res screen would be a nice change.

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Originally Posted by LeaderofAtlantis

2) I like the PS2 controller and using my TV screen. Yeah, I wish I could get some of the clutter of the screen at times and better resolution will do that, but I feel comfortable with it, so it's my choice to play this way.

3) It still works, I've been playing on it for 7 years, with a controller and USB Keyboard (for chatting) - why take the time to get used to everything all over again on PC?

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You know it's possible to play with a controller on the PC as well? You can even use a Playstation controller if you have an adapter for it. ^^

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

All it means is anyone will be able to resize and move their chat log however and wherever they want it, if they want to.

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It's not quite that freely adjustable. If you haven't tried it out on the test-server, it is just as I expected, stuck in the lower-left corner, and you can adjust the size between set steps similar to how you can set the maximum/minimum lines visible, only that you can do it more to the up than before, as well as to the left/right.

I tried playing with it a bit, still not sure if I can get used to it not filling the whole lower area lol.
It is good to see that they are playing around with the UI, and even considering further changes.

Keep it up!

Revamping the UI almost makes me think they still care about this game. Makes me all warm and fuzzy inside.

I really really hope the change to the UI isn't going to be drastic.

I don't know why people complain about XI's UI, I've found it to be one of the most convenient, fastest UI in most areas bar certain parts.

The FFXIV team gave us a sneak peek of what the UI will look like a year from now. If it's going to undergo major changes, how about whetting our appetites with a sneak peek too? :p

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I really really hope the change to the UI isn't going to be drastic.

I don't know why people complain about XI's UI, I've found it to be one of the most convenient, fastest UI in most areas bar certain parts.

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You probably haven't played many other MMOs. The only concieveable strong point of FFXI's UI system is how basic it is. It lacks in information given, lacks in intelligent design (e.x. UI widgets covering up other UI widgets when they shouldn't), is almost unusable with the mouse (which drives a lot of would-be PC players off), is barely customizable at all, doesn't allow you to directly hotkey spells and abilities or many other functions for that matter, and has stupid rules for when you can and can't use certain functions ("You must close the currently open window to use that command").

The biggest problem is inability to customize. The ability to resize the log window is the best little baby step in that direction in a very long time.

I agree drastic changes would be very jarring to long time players, but it will be no more difficult to adjust to than when you learned it for the first time.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

You probably haven't played many other MMOs. The only concieveable strong point of FFXI's UI system is how basic it is. It lacks in information given, lacks in intelligent design (e.x. UI widgets covering up other UI widgets when they shouldn't), is almost unusable with the mouse (which drives a lot of would-be PC players off), is barely customizable at all, doesn't allow you to directly hotkey spells and abilities or many other functions for that matter, and has stupid rules for when you can and can't use certain functions ("You must close the currently open window to use that command").

...

I agree drastic changes would be very jarring to long time players, but it will be no more difficult to adjust to than when you learned it for the first time.

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I agree. After a few years of playing with a controller, and then having to play on PC with mouse when my console broke, I felt completely lost. The UI was so crappy without a controller it was almost unplayable. I mean just clicking on the menu item you want is often inaccurate or laggy, and navigating the menus is lame. It would make more sense if you could have macros up that you could click any time without having to push ctrl or alt. On a high res screen, I could probably fit 40 macros up on one side without even needing to hide them. Thank god for that JP guy who made drivers that turn the 360 triggers into buttons so that I can use my 360 wireless on my PC.

Actually, I'm surprised anyone plays XI with a mouse!

I find XI's UI one of the best, most unclunky out of all MMOs for a pure keyboard player. Having to move my hand to my mouse every now and then in some MMOs really is frustrating. The only thing I don't like is just how macros aren't as responsive as I would like to be.

Well, I don't mind a UI change as long as it's not so drastic *or* we have the option to keep the previous UI as well. Given XI's history though, I don't know how customisable it will be, if it will be at all.

yah if you play pure keyboard it's not a bad interface. Still pretty clunky yeah but not unmanageable.

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Originally Posted by Darkvalkyr

I really really hope the change to the UI isn't going to be drastic.

I don't know why people complain about XI's UI, I've found it to be one of the most convenient, fastest UI in most areas bar certain parts.

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Originally Posted by Darkvalkyr

I find XI's UI one of the best, most unclunky out of all MMOs for a pure keyboard player. Having to move my hand to my mouse every now and then in some MMOs really is frustrating. The only thing I don't like is just how macros aren't as responsive as I would like to be.

Well, I don't mind a UI change as long as it's not so drastic *or* we have the option to keep the previous UI as well. Given XI's history though, I don't know how customisable it will be, if it will be at all.

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Originally Posted by Tagrineth

yah if you play pure keyboard it's not a bad interface. Still pretty clunky yeah but not unmanageable.

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"User Interface" isn't just navigating the menu, it's everything that translates user actions into the game and vice versa translates game elements to the user. One of those things is displaying stats that currently aren't being displayed, like Accuracy, Evasion and as ranged and magic stats, as well as other screen elements, like displaying Party TP and Alliance MP/TP. Another would be allowing gear changes to take place when menus are open, something that bothers me gravely. Yet another thing that's an UI issue (that probably won't be fixed, though), is the disappearing of the menu one zoning, and consequently missing parts of the chat, and not being able to chat during that time. All of these things (and plenty more) bother the majority of people. And that's still not all, blinking and losing target on blinking, for example, could also be classed as interface flaws.

It's not just how well and fast the menus are to navigate with a keyboard. It's some inherent issues with the design and implementation of that into the game client, and SE can do a lot on that front.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

It's not just how well and fast the menus are to navigate with a keyboard. It's some inherent issues with the design and implementation of that into the game client, and SE can do a lot on that front.

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UI and usability are critically important aspects of any software development.

I'm just delighted to hear that FFXI will finally be getting some much needed UI upgrades.

The layout of FFXI's UI is not bad. I've used it for so long that I can't imagine using anything drastically different. The problems with the UI are 1.) It's ugly as #$^& and 2.) Useful info that other games put front and center are hidden in XI. I'm glad they are addressing point 1, and hope that this "overhaul", if it happens, addresses point 2.

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Actually, I'm surprised anyone plays XI with a mouse!

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People would use the mouse if it wasn't so completely useless the way its controlls were designed. The lack of a hotbar doesn't help either.

I use the keyboard only, but I would use mouse + keyboard if the mouse was in some way functional.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

The FFXIV team gave us a sneak peek of what the UI will look like a year from now. If it's going to undergo major changes, how about whetting our appetites with a sneak peek too? :p

You probably haven't played many other MMOs. The only concieveable strong point of FFXI's UI system is how basic it is. It lacks in information given, lacks in intelligent design (e.x. UI widgets covering up other UI widgets when they shouldn't), is almost unusable with the mouse (which drives a lot of would-be PC players off), is barely customizable at all, doesn't allow you to directly hotkey spells and abilities or many other functions for that matter, and has stupid rules for when you can and can't use certain functions ("You must close the currently open window to use that command").

The biggest problem is inability to customize. The ability to resize the log window is the best little baby step in that direction in a very long time.

I agree drastic changes would be very jarring to long time players, but it will be no more difficult to adjust to than when you learned it for the first time.

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There's nothing wrong with keeping a UI basic. Complexity for complexity's sake is stupid design. Also whatever they do has to be usable with a controller so don't expect anything like a WoW style MMO. They're not going to put as much effort into FFXI as FFXIV, so we almost certainly won't get two separate UIs.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

I use the keyboard only, but I would use mouse + keyboard if the mouse was in some way functional.

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I use a controller and I like it that way. I don't want to be forced to use mouse+keyboard.

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Originally Posted by Darkvalkyr

Actually, I'm surprised anyone plays XI with a mouse!

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I could go for an option to disable mouse input altogether.

I can't be the only one here who has instances where the mouse is overriding my keyboard input on the interface and requires me to move it around and click once before I regain control.

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Originally Posted by Kaisha

I could go for an option to disable mouse input altogether.

I can't be the only one here who has instances where the mouse is overriding my keyboard input on the interface and requires me to move it around and click once before I regain control.

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Couldn't agree more. I want the mouse gone.

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Originally Posted by Darkvalkyr

I really really hope the change to the UI isn't going to be drastic.

I don't know why people complain about XI's UI, I've found it to be one of the most convenient, fastest UI in most areas bar certain parts.

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I agree.

I have no real complaints I think, I always did sort of like it if we are not talking about the chat-system and logging and all that (I still dislike that part), but the UI in and as of itself without considering the channels I never had really any issues with. Then again, I am one of those that use the keyboard mainly. I use ctrl+m for Magic, ctrl+w for ws, and so on, occasionally even utilising the mouse a bit, or even a PS2-controller. That's when the issues come a bit more apparent if not using macros, but the battle-menu, which indeed is not the most comfortable to use.

As long as they do not touch the keyboard mappings (or as long as only adding options, not making it like XIV for example), I don't care I guess...

More options is always a welcome thing, as long as it doesn't hurt the others.

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Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull

There's nothing wrong with keeping a UI basic. Complexity for complexity's sake is stupid design. Also whatever they do has to be usable with a controller so don't expect anything like a WoW style MMO. They're not going to put as much effort into FFXI as FFXIV, so we almost certainly won't get two separate UIs.



I use a controller and I like it that way. I don't want to be forced to use mouse+keyboard.

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You completely missed the point. Improving the UI doesn't mean it's going to be good for mouse only.

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Originally Posted by Juri_Licious

You completely missed the point. Improving the UI doesn't mean it's going to be good for mouse only.

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It's basicly impossible to make a UI that works equally well with a controller or a mouse. They are two entirely different animals.

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I use a controller and I like it that way. I don't want to be forced to use mouse+keyboard.

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Who said you'd be forced to use it?

A mouse+keyboard offers vastly superior control to a gamepad, but if you want to use a gamepad, no one's taking that away from you.

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It's basicly impossible to make a UI that works equally well with a controller or a mouse. They are two entirely different animals.

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Not true at all. All you have to do is have options. FFXIV for instance plays just as well with a gamepad as the keyboard, and the mouse is also useable, since you have a hotbar (which can easily be utilized with the keyboard or gamepad as well)

Options are a good thing. You have options.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Who said you'd be forced to use it?

A mouse+keyboard offers vastly superior control to a gamepad, but if you want to use a gamepad, no one's taking that away from you.

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While it does offer more control, I've always hated using mouses or keyboards to move characters on games. The keyboard specifically is just ridiculously stupid.

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There's nothing wrong with keeping a UI basic

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It's TOO basic. Information that really should be available (the client has this information) is not displayed. I specifically meant "basic" in a flawed way. Not in a positive way.

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The keyboard specifically is just ridiculously stupid.

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What's ridiculously stupid about having 109 buttons at your disposal? What's ridiculously stupid about being able to customize any individual key on the keyboard to do whatever you want, like most modern games do?

It does take getting used to if you haven't used it before. I totally agree with it having a steeper learning curve. But it's just so much more powerful, so much more flexible that it's worth the time it takes to learn. Add in the mouse and you have much quicker, much more precise control than what an analog stick can offer.

BTW plural of mouse is mice.

Personally, I have no issues with the UI in game except when it comes to sorting magic. I know there is a way to sort both black and white magic at the same time in the same list, but iirc, it was a /command and not a menu option. If something like that was available in the battle menu, that would be greatly appreciated.

Also, a great improvement would be a way to change the wind colors and transparencies themselves instead of just being able to change the text colors. The designs available now would are nice, but they do not go well with the default text color outside of the default dark blue lines, and maybe the gray metal theme. The somewhat clear glass theme would be a perfect example of what could be done if SE lets us do this.

As for having 109 buttons for 109 things, I still would prefer having 50 of them for starting a sentence over using a macro.

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Originally Posted by Skie

Also, a great improvement would be a way to change the wind colors and transparencies themselves instead of just being able to change the text colors. The designs available now would are nice, but they do not go well with the default text color outside of the default dark blue lines, and maybe the gray metal theme. The somewhat clear glass theme would be a perfect example of what could be done if SE lets us do this.

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The problem with that is that window background transparency also makes text transparent. Compare the transparent window styles and you will see what I mean.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Add in the mouse and you have much quicker, much more precise control than what an analog stick can offer.

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My 7 and a half years of superiority over KB users at any and all NM camps says otherwise. But it's nothing new to hear a KB user dream that they aren't at an disadvantage with their slow KB control which I know is in fact a fact because I have one in front of me at all times and am no stranger to it's controls for FFXI. It offers far more options with a mouse combo, but never more control where it counts.

Oh look, it's this thread again.