WoEs

2
And make final reward some points/tokens you can exchange for coins of your choosing. Getting 100 Coins of Ruin and barely anything else at the end of your 1 RL day run doesn't really help anyone. Also, make entry tickets accumulate if you don't go in every day, either acumulating infinitely or up to let's say 7, so that you don't have to organize the group every single day. Setting up a 30min run every day gets old fast, asking few friends to tag along and spamming 3-5 runs one evening sounds more bearable.
Hell, why not make the coins tradeable/bazaarable even, so people who get junk coins can sell them off or trade (hello Tarut Cards quest!). If I wanted an empy weaponskill, I'd ask a friend or two to team up and be done in a week with the real thing. Some lv80 versions are even soloable. WoE version can't be harder than that, considering it's inferior/placeholder.
As a side note: WoE version of Shield/Harp, that would be something to look forward to! :)

Personally, I'm split, but I'm still leaning toward the idea of #1, keeping it original.

If #2 wins, please for the love of God, make it once per vana'diel day.

Only reason why I like the idea of 'top 5 people getting chests' is those people put effort in the battle field, and not just being there to leech, (of course if the WoE battle IS won). If #1 win, there needs to be some kind of system that actually rewards those that did put effort into the battle, and not reward people that are just there to leech the pool.

All in all, regardless of whichever won, it should be soloable as ever.

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Only reason why I like the idea of 'top 5 people getting chests' is those people put effort in the battle field, and not just being there to leech, (of course if the WoE battle IS won).

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It's not related to leeching at all. It's related to who abuses the system most.

There are points for curing, points for taking dmg, magic dmg, phy dmg, enfeebling, etc.

You can go rdm/nin melee, buff yourself, feed mobs tp, spam nukes and only look out for yourself and contribute 0 to the actual run (we've actually had rdms that made it harder w/ joytoy spam feeding it tp) and rank themselves a top chest.

2 is good. I agree with once per real-life day as long as the coin drops are increased accordingly.

2

But I rather a tag system of some kind that regenerates at jp midnight or hopefully the drop rate will be up for the reduced entries.

A mix,
have fluxes 1-3 or something be open for anyone, then 4-7 be reserved chambers or something to that nature

2
The only thing that has been holding Linkshells back from doing this as an LS event has been other people just enterring the zone and lotting on the drops you've been working for. However, I think adding one Conflux to tailor to those without a group would be a good idea as well.

2 is my vote

2

And if you're really going to restrict it to once per RL day, the new rewards better be really really shiny. Not this fake shiny "oh hey yeah, augged abjuration gear will be as good as empyrean armor +2 on HQ synergizes" BS we were fed 2 updates ago.

What ever they decide to do its really nice to even give players a say on the content and closest this game has even seen to real time feed back.

inb4 2 and everyone starts bitchin

I think the best system to start with is #1 - to allow players to continue to do this solo or in small groups.

I suggest the following changes:

1: The player who first initiates the battlefield can select loot distribution rules and combat rules.

- The player can select to allow public lotting or lotting only by people in the alliance who defeated the monster. (This will prevent uninvited people from entering and casting lots without helping in any way.)

- The player can select to allow or disallow people outside of an alliance to assist on a claimed enemy. (This will prevent uninvited people from "tagging" a mob or "kill-stealing" to obtain lotting rights.)

2: Adjust the battlefields to encourage both "organized group" and "solo" play.

I will use Crabs as an example...

- Crabs will appear in six groups of 4-5.

» Damask Crab x2, Cyanic Crab x2, Caldera Crab x1
» Damask Crab x4, Caldera Crab x1
» Cyanic Crab x4, Caldera Crab x1
» Damask Crab x2, Cyanic Crab x2
» Damask Crab x4
» Cyanic Crab x4

- Pulling a Caldera Crab will cause the lesser mobs of it's group to assist it, but pulling smaller crabs will not cause the Caldera Crab to attack.

- Cyanic and Damask Crabs will occasionally repop if they are killed and assist the corresponding Caldera Crab if it is being attacked

- Cyanic and Damask Crabs become susceptible to Sleep, Bind and Gravity.

- Cyanic and Damask Crabs become able to be staggered. Staggering one of these enemies gives a small chance for everyone in the battlefield to receive a time extension, temporary items or a boost to attributes.

- Bosses will no longer "investigate" defeated enemies. Up to two Cyanic or Damask Crabs may still exhibit this behavior. Monsters exhibiting this behavior will only be aggressive to the alliance who defeated the original enemy while on their patrol.

3: Reward System

Again, I will use Crabs as an example...

- Cyanic and Damask Crabs will occasionally drop one or two coins.

- Caldera Crabs will drop two or three coins and one or two frayed pouches.

- Defeating a Caldera Crab will grant a Treasure Casket containing several items which can include Frayed Pouches, Dynamis Currency, Alexanderites, Empyrean Armor Upgrade Items, high level equipment and synthesis materials. Only the alliance which defeated the Caldera Crab may cast lots on these items.

- Defeating all three Caldera Crabs will grant a Treasure Casket. This casket will have unique rewards for each participant. Your reward will be determined based on your overall performance.

- Players may choose from two options to share unwanted treasure:
» Add to alliance treasure pool.
» Add to public treasure pool.

4: Grief tactics countermeasures.

- If a Caldera Crab is held by a player or group of players for a certain period of time without being significantly damaged, it will temporarily go into a rage mode.

- If a player dies or leaves the area when being attacked or chased by monsters, those monsters will despawn and reappear at their original location, unless someone else is on the hate list.

2 - once per game day - mobs in instanced fights are still soloable.

1

Yeah, I know, losing proposition, but I'd rather see what "reward revamps" look like before throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Speaking of, why not a modification of the Union system from campaign battle? Rather than showering rewards on people on an individual basis, let parties or alliances pool their points for a single loot pool, shared exclusively among them?

The modification I would make is restricting membership to such a WoE union to only people in the same party or alliance. This would let groups have their exclusivity without effectively locking out individuals from even participating in the battle.

As for the solo players who'd be locked out from joining such a union, crank up the drop rates of Ex items (/cough coins /cough). If they wanted frayed pouches or salable items (spells, equipment), they'd probably have to go through some sort of organizing process, but if they'd rather just grind through their magian trial on their own they'd at least have a realistic chance.

Or, for the sake of making implementation easier, enroll soloers into an "everybody else" union automatically.

If it's supposed to be once per GAME day (as it is currently) then I vote for 2).

Otherwise, I vote 1), for one reason only.

only being able to enter once a day would stink. The rate of reward obtainment would have to be a LOT higher if it were limited to once a day.

if that once a day clause was removed, I would change my vote in an instant.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Howdy!

As there has been quite a lot of feedback already on the topic of Walk of Echoes adjustments, we’d just like to confirm the type of system everyone really wants, one more time.

We’d like to decide what the best option for the renewed system is based on your feedback, so please post your opinions by 7/18 (Monday).


(1)Original open-access system

•Proceed with adjustments based on the current system.

(2)Change to reservation system

•For the reservation system, we are planning to make it similar to regular battlefields. It will be different than Dynamis and Assault.
•Planning to make entry limited to once per real world day.

We are also looking into the below regardless of which system we chose to adopt:

•Reward revamps
•Item drop rate on regular monsters
•Difficulty level of Magian-related trials that require different types of coins

When responding to this post, We ask that you please begin your post with "1" or "2" so that we can easily tally the votes up during our information gathering.

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2

I very much enjoy linkshell/group related activities. Free-for-all stuff like Campaign and Besieged while fun at times, rarely reaches it's potential. Being able to schedule events with a group of friends works out great. Bonus points if WoE is setup so that pickup groups can still enter and be rewarded.

I'd realli love to see some challenging WoE fluxes that involve strategy and team work. Granting rewards to people who have some mild success, and extra rewards for teams who can complete the event. I'm also largely in favor of rewarding the group and individuals. I'm strongly against additional rewards for performance. The jobs are not created equal, their roles are not equal, and all it does is stifle working together for a common goal. Reward a group for performance by completing a flux in 20 minutes, instead of using up the whole 30 minutes. Extra rewards like that force the group to learn new strategies and find ways to enhance their performance.

(Most likely #1) My answer would depend on several factors.

The original open-access system is a fine concept. The problems I see are:

Distribution of Rewards and Monster Difficulty and Behavior Quirks:
The event was designed around rewarding personal contribution to the battle similar to Campaign (almost identical) which favors anyone who can survive a monster's assault until its death, deal lots of damage, heal their own damage, enfeeble the monster, etc. People who focus only on healing others, or only dealing damage, or only tanking (highly specialized roles) are penalized for performing their roles in strategies meant for large groups to take down extremely powerful foes. As a stand-alone feature, this has worked in Campaign (debatable). This is because several Campaign features are designed to allow this to work that are not present within WoE. These being: temporary items, NPCs that heal and raise people, NPCs and "targets" to help fight multiple enemies so they're not all focused on players, among others.

All of those Campaign features allow players to go in solo, fight monsters, and get rewards. Most solo players can't stand up to the bosses, but you don't really have to fight bosses (usually they're avoided unless you have an organized group). WoE's version of "Campaign Unions" essentially includes everyone in one big group.

The way rewards in WoE are handled runs contrary to the solo nature of this system because of the challenges faced within and the actions and choices required by participants. Most monsters in WoE have unusual hate and linking behaviors that require participants to be in groups to handle multiple monsters, and you can't even think of touching bosses on your own, so there's no chance of getting the chests from a full clear.

Identity Crisis
The devs have to decide if they want the Walk of Echoes event to be solo or group oriented and then design the content and reward system around that.

If it's supposed to be the solo method of obtaining the lesser-Empyrean weapons and a few nice pieces of gear on our own time, without needing a linkshell to coordinate schedules, something that can be done in short bursts...

Then the enemies must not have the special hate systems and linking potential that makes soloing nearly impossible in most battlefields of the event. Most of the rewards should be obtained from killing the non-boss enemies. Killing the bosses would still be required to progress with opening new battlefields (but a party of 6 random people on jobs that can normally solo the non-boss monsters in the battlefield should be able to defeat the bosses. For example, this means no spamming of highly damaging AoE attacks.)

It may be best to include a currency similar to Einherjar's Ampoules of Therion Ichor to reward participants from each kill based on their performance, similar to Bastion, to spend on items purchased from an NPC, which would remove much of the controversy surrounding the "drops" issue. People would attend on the jobs they currently bring to Campaign, fully expecting to be solo.

If it's a group oriented event that requires full linkshells with groups of tanks and healers and damage dealers all working at their peak performance to clear the different challenges, gathering at set times, rewarding their members for attendance or whatever other whims they may have...

Then the current monster setup is fine with the changes to the system listed in option #2. This way, groups could coordinate properly for the events and hand out rewards according to their own agreed upon systems (not that I think this is any more fair in some cases - I prefer in-game point systems if you hadn't guessed). Using the currency system of Einherjar would equally reward all participants in the battlefield for performing whatever role their group assigns to them for their strategy, not relying on arbitrary game code to reward each person for what the algorithm decides is worth whatever reward they get.

However, this would mean that it is no longer geared toward the casual obtaining of the lesser-Empyrean weapons. People may start treating WoE like Dynamis of old, and it will likely share many of its problems. Coins would have to drop much more freely, especially if entry is limited to once per real day (I think once per game day is fine.) These changes would make the event a hybrid of Dynamis/Einherjar.

With all that said, I'd prefer option number 1 (with associated changes) because I don't have an organized linkshell anymore that would devote itself to scheduled events of this sort. Abyssea decimated the one I was in, and the server merge finished it off. I think a lot of people are in my position, since most goals can be accomplished with small groups of 3-6 people these days - there isn't as high of a demand for big linkshells that can gather groups of 18+ at the same time on a regular basis.

1

(1) Although SOME people do abuse the lotting system by leeching, or even worse IMO, people thinking they control the zone and make all the rules, HOWEVER, unless you increase droprates by 10,000%, the "entering once per RL day" is just absurd and will NEVER work. People will give up on WoE altogether, and never touch it again. Even with being able to spam it once per gameday, even as a trio, I would sometimes go 10 hours of spamming without getting a SINGLE COIN that I could use! If this is switched to once per RL day without DRAMATICALLY increasing droprates, then no one will EVER finish their weapons. Additionally, if we choose the second option, and it goes to being reserved, rather than instanced, solo players will constantly tie up the zone, preventing others from entering, so even attempting to get your coins will be the equivalent of beating a dead horse.

For the LOVE OF GOD, please do not make WoE worse than it already is... anyone who has worked their butt off for a WoE weapon already knows how awful the droprates already are, and if our ability to spam it multiple times per day is taken away or if they let someone else reserve it and lock us out goes through, then WoE will be completely dead for everyone.

1
Most people seem to claim to want 2, but really want a 3rd option that wasn't offered.

2
Whatever makes WoE more bearable than it is now would be grand

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Originally Posted by Catmato

1
Most people seem to claim to want 2, but really want a 3rd option that wasn't offered.

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Even if it is once per RL day no matter what, I still pick 2. I picked 2 because I think 2 is the better choice. Afterwards I gave some additional suggestions, but even if I can't have my suggestions implemented, I still pick 2. Just because someone is not completely satisfied with choice 2 doesn't mean choice 1 is better for them. A vote is still a vote regardless of whether or not said voter is 100% satisfied with their choice for all time.

Please instance it like Nyzul Isle, Assault and Salvage, everyone has is own battlefield and can team up outside if they like. Everyone is happy.

2, but not once per game day unless you can get ~24 runs worth of coins in one run.

@Camate, both systems suck.
I'd prefer #1 simply because it makes WoE a unique battlefield.
The other option turns it into, not only the SAME THING we have everywhere else in the game, but it also makes it extremely limited access so that people would do it even less than they do now.

So, yes, I'd prefer open-access. I'd love if you found an anti-leeching method, though. [Not that I have had this issue myself.]
Other than the extreme blandness of the second option, making it a whole real life day to re-enter makes it a terrible system.

2 but no one day limit

Either option is fine, but the coin drop rate should be greatly increased or make a system (similar to Abyssea trophies) where you can exchange X item for specific coins. Also make it once a game day, not once a earth day. As others have said, it should not be harder to get a WoE weapon than to get a Emp weapon.

Though please do consider the rest of the post as well, as certain details would definitely change my mind towards (1).

Firstly, being able to enter solo is necessary.

Secondly, the 24 hour wait does not sound good, even if the drop-rates were tremendously increased. While I don't exactly like using lots of time into tedious things really, I did sort of like spending time at WoE, sometimes whole days even! So I really don't like a chance of doing a 30 minute run only once per 24 hours.
It's really not all about the drop-rates here too, I want to be able to spend my time with events like this, if I want to, instead of having to wait for such long times (Assault is a good example too).

Nevertheless, it would require the drop-rates to be quite massively increase indeed, which it already is crying for with the current system... It took so long for me and my friend to get a weapon done each, weeks I think?

While I understand that if it gets crowded, there could be massive congestion. But I'm quite sure it could be alleviated in a different way.

I would really like to get some more information before deciding on this.

While there are issues, I would miss some aspects of (1), if I will ever do it again. Number (2) is however quite clearly winning this as is now, so I'm just hoping it will be done right.

I would like to also thank you a lot for asking about the players' opinion about this directly. Need more this!

Big thumbs-up ! !! !



Now some personal experiences in general.

It's not really an easy choice, because I actually most of the time ended up teaming up with nice (Japanese) people while doing it duo/trio and sometimes would kill the bosses even with 5 or so characters only.

And if there already was a group in, no one seemingly had a problem with teaming up. No one was leeching really.

Sometimes I might find a player soloing, then if we'd attack the same monster, they'd start running around like a headless chicken... I don't understand that at all; killing stuff faster would have helped these players as well.

I'm not sure if it was due to the time we were doing it (mostly no one else there than us, or if there were, they were Japanese mostly).

Sometimes I'd get quite rude tells without saying or doing anything, just waiting outside, telling me I am not to follow them in. What the heck is that? I understand that they might have had bad experiences with leechers who really do naught but harm, but seriously, I was just staring at the screen, thinking if this person is serious. It felt so ridiculous, but oh well, that only happened once.

I'm not claiming the American are just worse, as I said, mostly there were no one else than the few of us, and if there were, it was mostly Japanese when they had the time to play. And we would just naturally team up, and I think this is how WoE was intended to be.

2 but ONLY if there are multiple instances on each zone, and if getting coins is much easier to compensate for the once a day entry and shorter time limit.

Would be horrible if the zone you wanted was always taken, as with things like Limbus and old Dynamis.

Would be nice too if it worked like Assault, in that if you didn't go for a few days you could do a few runs in a row.

I would definitely like it to be more lowman friendly. Currently it is pointless to go in without a full party, as you are unlikely to clear the zone, which means only getting 1 or 2 coins drop at best, and lotting against everyone else for them. Yet finding a full party of people that want to go with the jobs needed can be pretty tough.

As the WoE weapons are inferior to the Empy weapons, they should not be harder to obtain.

2

Definitly 2.

2, but more than 1 time per day.

1) Because the moment you make this stuff reserved, you're going to have people who want to take control of their group, usually benefiting themselves more than others. They'll use the ultimate excuse of "Well I formed this group, so if you ever want a chance to get your coins, you'll do as I say" and things become too...businessy. It happened with Dynamis, it happens in Abyssea, it happens pretty much everywhere there are desirable drops that require a lot of members to get. WoE is an exception in that everyone has an equal chance, regardless of anyone else. Just revamp it so the coins aren't as hard to get.

Maybe every participant in the fight should (so long as they have engaged a target) get a chest at the end, and the higher up you are in rank, the more you get in your chest or the better your chances of getting coin pouches.

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1) Because the moment you make this stuff reserved, you're going to have people who want to take control of their group, usually benefiting themselves more than others. They'll use the ultimate excuse of "Well I formed this group, so if you ever want a chance to get your coins, you'll do as I say"

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And what part about that in WoE doesn't happen now?

When I shouted for pick up runs, I locked advancement coins. When I joined other people's shout groups, they locked the coin of their choice, etc.

Of course, you had no obligation to honor that, but lol someone lot what they're not supposed to, usually shunned by the group and of course never taken along again, so it still works even in shout groups.

Make the group, make the rules. I don't see how going 1 over 2 would come close to changing that

Opption 2.

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Originally Posted by Cream_Soda

And what part about that in WoE doesn't happen now?

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Everyone can lot, anyone can enter. It's kind of hard to tell people they have to play by your set of rules when there's nothing to stop them from not. Again, it's not perfect the way it is now, but essentially making it like old Dynamis is just going to cause a different kind of monster.

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Originally Posted by Andevom

Everyone can lot, anyone can enter. It's kind of hard to tell people they have to play by your set of rules when there's nothing to stop them from not. Again, it's not perfect the way it is now, but essentially making it like old Dynamis is just going to cause a different kind of monster.

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That's true about Dynamis, BCNMs, Abyssea Seal/+2 NMs, etc. as well nothing but your morals bound you to respect rules set forth by the organizer.

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Originally Posted by Andevom

Everyone can lot, anyone can enter. It's kind of hard to tell people they have to play by your set of rules when there's nothing to stop them from not. Again, it's not perfect the way it is now, but essentially making it like old Dynamis is just going to cause a different kind of monster.

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Ok, so it's stopping people from leeching then? That your only complaint?

Because any organized group, even with the current system, whether you shout or go with a ls will have some sort of lotting system when they enter.

Just because randoms and lot on everything, doesn't mean everyone in the organized group does.

For example, i want coin of glory. I join a shout group and the leader has advancement locked. Some random comes in and lots on glory who wasn't part of the group and wins. That doesn't mean that I'm going to lot advancement now when that drops.

If it is indeed one day reset, is there a way for it to reset at NA or EU midnight (I know they would have to pick a timezone to do this)?

A lot of things in game are JP midnight reset. It would be nice to have an NA or EU reset time, no? Is there a reason things must be JST reset??

1
I don't like being forced to play with 16 gimps.

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Originally Posted by Cream_Soda

Ok, so it's stopping people from leeching then? That your only complaint?

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I never made this claim. Actually, the fact that it doesn't stop people form leeching IS a problem, which is why it needs some kind of incentive for people to actively participate (hence my suggestion of giving everyone a chest if they pull their weight). The current system stops people from creating a strict set of rules that causes a ton of people to have to wait longer to get their coins. Which is good; there's enough of this in other events.

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Because any organized group, even with the current system, whether you shout or go with a ls will have some sort of lotting system when they enter.

Just because randoms and lot on everything, doesn't mean everyone in the organized group does.

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My point is that this doesn't need to be heavily organized at all. It can be like campaign, where you just go and do it.

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For example, i want coin of glory. I join a shout group and the leader has advancement locked. Some random comes in and lots on glory who wasn't part of the group and wins. That doesn't mean that I'm going to lot advancement now when that drops.

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But see, under the current system, the leader can't lock in advancement to start with. And he shouldn't be able to anyway, really. I'm sorry, I'm in favor of people being able to enter the event and try their luck at getting the coins. Everyone's on equal footing going in that way. But the main issue is people who go in and leech. I don't think the solution to this is make it like Dynamis. It's too drastic.

So, going back to the campaign example, maybe you have it so people join something comparable to a union in WoE. You help out, you get access to the spoils. You sit around and leech, you get nothing. This was such a good reward system that hasn't been implemented anywhere else. I know that nothing like this is being proposed at the moment (option 1 is the closest), but with some tweaking to the system, you can easily make it so leechers don't benefit as much.

When I did WoE, nobody shouted for groups, no LS's came in and did a zone, it was thrown together groups. The majority did the slime one, sometimes the crabs or ants when it wasn't available. I met very few bad apples in my time. Almost everyone who came in joined up with the mash-up of people already in, did their part, and reaped the benefits. Nobody I saw literally just went in, sat there, and lotted at the end. Thats the worst way to get coins. The best way is to fight for one of the top 5 slots. I vote keep it the way it is, and progress from there. I don't have a lot of friends on the game, I'd like to be able to keep joining up with randoms easily if for whatever reason I need to go back in there.