Monstrosity Feedback

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Originally Posted by Babekeke

In Gusgen Mines, you can certainly operate the levers to get from the low-level area to the high-level area. I seem to remember that I couldn't open the door from the other side though, but I just assumed that this was supposed to be the case, even when not a monipulator. Is it not? Been a while since I had to do it.

Edit: Actually, I opened a door (with the lever), ran through, checked the map then ran back through it to try a different door. I can't remember if I opened the door from the other side or if it just stayed open for long enough for me to get back through it.

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I tried the levers. They do nothing. I think people are just making shit up now.

Edit: unless it was an announced update, that is. I haven't tried since the late August update, but I know Fei'Yin's doors are still sealed.

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Originally Posted by Ryota_Iwagami

Gestation
When teleporting to an area from the Feretory in your monster form, we've been hearing comments that it's easily to be killed when you spawn in an area where there are monsters that are higher level than you. Due to this, we'll be making adjustments so the gestation effect will wear off only when you remove it. However, this will be limited to times when PvP is not active only.

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Solution:
Make mobs not aggressive when Monipulating. Mobs don't attack other mobs normally, why do they do it when we're at the helm?

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Originally Posted by Edyth

I tried the levers. They do nothing. I think people are just making shit up now.

Edit: unless it was an announced update, that is. I haven't tried since the late August update, but I know Fei'Yin's doors are still sealed.

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The only doors i've encountered so far that i could not open were the doors in Fei'Yin (the tiny little doors leading to the dolls/etc). I've opened every important door in both Castle Zvahl and Castle Oztroja... including the door that requires the lever password and the door that requires you to pick the right lever.

There are doors we can't open that are annoying (Garlaige...) But most if not all Lever doors work fine, and even doors you click to open like the ones in Zvahl work fine. knowing this from personal experience

Edit: Remembered off the top of my head I'm not sure i ever made it to the "Password" Door to the Yagudo Avatar. So i can't confirm that one.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

The only doors i've encountered so far that i could not open were the doors in Fei'Yin (the tiny little doors leading to the dolls/etc). I've opened every important door in both Castle Zvahl and Castle Oztroja... including the door that requires the lever password and the door that requires you to pick the right lever.

There are doors we can't open that are annoying (Garlaige...) But most if not all Lever doors work fine, and even doors you click to open like the ones in Zvahl work fine. knowing this from personal experience

Edit: Remembered off the top of my head I'm not sure i ever made it to the "Password" Door to the Yagudo Avatar. So i can't confirm that one.

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The yagudo password door works fine.

When we get to Avians, I want unlockable chocobos.

For skins:
Yellow could be WAR/WAR
White could be WHM/WAR
Red could be RDM/WAR
Black could be BLM/WAR

...and so on.

How awesome would that be? Different forms could even have a unique TP move, like Choco Meteor or something.

Waiting on something with BLU and BRD spells myself, honestly. If there's gonna be monster parties soon, we need buffers. And of course a BLU monster would just confuse the hell out of the normies.

Greetings,

I'd like to quickly clarify that the lunar phase effects would not be all monsters. This was an error in the original post, which I corrected. The plan is to introduce more monsters that have special properties, and one example are Gnoles who would receive special effects depending on the lunar phase. Apologies for the confusion!

Will monsters such as ladybugs be affected by night/day then?

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Originally Posted by Louispv

Waiting on something with BLU and BRD spells myself, honestly. If there's gonna be monster parties soon, we need buffers. And of course a BLU monster would just confuse the hell out of the normies.

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Unless they tweak the mechanics, BRD will suck with no instruments and no subjob.

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Originally Posted by Edyth

Also, please comment on the door situation. I can't be the only person who wants to open doors as a monipulator. I've seen some people claim they've been able to open doors in certain dungeons, but I haven't experienced that. So far, doors have stonewalled me in Gusgen Mines and prevented access to certain monsters in Fei'Yin.

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To clarify the monstrosity door situation in dungeons, we’ve made it so you can gain access through doors that we have flagged as okay to be opened, but if there are doors that cannot be opened that are posing problems, please let us know and we’ll look into it.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings,

I'd like to quickly clarify that the lunar phase effects would not be all monsters. This was an error in the original post, which I corrected. The plan is to introduce more monsters that have special properties, and one example are Gnoles who would receive special effects depending on the lunar phase. Apologies for the confusion!

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That's better, but still, it will be an annoyance to someone like myself who wants to play a monster and have full access to everything that monster can do while they play as it. I believe I would find it more annoying if I enjoy playing as a Gnole standing, but not as much on all 4s, and at the same time were unable to freely change between the two. Or even worse, if I couldn't during the correct moonphase either, and were stuck in whatever form I ended a battle in.

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Originally Posted by Louispv

Waiting on something with BLU and BRD spells myself, honestly. If there's gonna be monster parties soon, we need buffers. And of course a BLU monster would just confuse the hell out of the normies.

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Could be waiting awhile, the only monsters that are blu/brd are beastmen, no?

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Originally Posted by Helldemon

Could be waiting awhile, the only monsters that are blu/brd are beastmen, no?

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As far as BRD, there are large-bird NMs that have that job, so that's a possibility there.

BLU is probably out of luck except as a special case on either flans or soulflayers, though.

i got thru doors in gusgen jsut fine. I cant remember if i was able to hi tthe lever or if they just opened for me. one time i spawned beehind them adn i just went thru it.

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

To clarify the monstrosity door situation in dungeons, we’ve made it so you can gain access through doors that we have flagged as okay to be opened, but if there are doors that cannot be opened that are posing problems, please let us know and we’ll look into it.

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Already making an epic montage of my monipulator failing to open doors. I reproduced the monipulator trap in Gusgen easily in my second feretory warp. I filmed three videos of my raptor failing to open every door (from both sides when possible) and lever in the mines. I'll edit them together later tonight and post on Youtube. But honestly, I shouldn't have to do this; anyone can do it. Maybe this is monipulator-specific to raptors, but I doubt it. I don't think any of these people claiming to have opened Gusgen doors really did.

Also, we need our "Pouch of weighted stones" to let us open banishing gates in Garlaige simply by clicking the door, which is how it functions in normal form. Currently, it does nothing as a MON. You cannot pretend the banishing gates are unproblematic.

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I shouldn't have to do this; anyone can do it. Maybe this is monipulator-specific to raptors, but I doubt it. I don't think any of these people claiming to have opened Gusgen doors really did.

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You know you really don't have to make a video for the Devs, a simple "Gusgens won't work" is enough to get them to look into Gusgen, Since they have "Flagged" doors as okay to open I imagine they can simply view the list and go "Oh hey, Gusgen isn't on here".

But yah, I'll say Gusgen and Garlaige should be added to list of approved doors ;x

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

You know you really don't have to make a video for the Devs, a simple "Gusgens won't work" is enough to get them to look into Gusgen, Since they have "Flagged" doors as okay to open I imagine they can simply view the list and go "Oh hey, Gusgen isn't on here".

But yah, I'll say Gusgen and Garlaige should be added to list of approved doors ;x

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The reason I'm making videos is because so many people are essentially calling me a liar.

In any case, here are the videos of Gusgen door fails. The poor video quality is symbolic of Old Mr. Raptor's weariness of these doors.

TRAPTOR'd:
As you can see on the map, both possible routes to the weaker area of the mines are sealed, and the center path is on a different elevation. The maps on FFXIcyclopedia seem to suggest that there is no way to access the first area of the mines in this situation. Even if it is possible, we should really just be able to open these doors. Notice how I had to dash through the room of those 90+ beasties in a generally level 30~40 spot due to the locked door?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlBHKO5hJ0w

Not a single door or lever functions. I've seen people claiming to be able to use both as monipulators. It doesn't happen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1TIVbQyIHE (No matter how many times I click the levers/doors, the center one stays open, and the others stay closed. This blocks access to a mid-level portion of the mines)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wy8Y5v-Di-c (very bad quality on this one, just illustrative purposes because this can be bypassed it seems by just walking around)

Chigoes attack is broken but has been declared not a bug even though it clearly is broken. Certainly provides a significant loss of game enjoyment to have 40 att at lvl 60. I suggest you actually consider it a bug and fix it

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Originally Posted by Helldemon

Could be waiting awhile, the only monsters that are blu/brd are beastmen, no?

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There are a number of bird and dragon types that sometimes have brd jobs; small birds, rocs, hippogryphs, dragons (the wingless undead looking ones), and puks. Very few of them actually cast songs (just a handful of roc and dragon nms I think?), but some of them are brds stat/trait wise the same way most crabs are plds.

The only non-mamool blu mobs have afaik been soulflayers, but that doesn't mean we won't see any outside those. Many of the current monstrosity skin/job combinations are not reflective of real mobs. IE: blm/war rabbit|lizard|wivre|antlion, blm/mnk korrigan, etc. They were just something SE put in to make those skins different. So I wouldn't be surprised if there's a blu flan/colibri/whatever eventually.

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

To clarify the monstrosity door situation in dungeons, we’ve made it so you can gain access through doors that we have flagged as okay to be opened, but if there are doors that cannot be opened that are posing problems, please let us know and we’ll look into it.

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Fair enough.. If PvM happens then having acess to exclusive areas could aid you in recovering for a second round if the NM persists.....

Probably been mentioned before but why the heck does my monster get shield mastery and reprisal if it can't block. And why can't it block if pld mobs we fight can?

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Originally Posted by dasva

Probably been mentioned before but why the heck does my monster get shield mastery and reprisal if it can't block. And why can't it block if pld mobs we fight can?

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I'm guessing because the PLD monsters you have in mind are shield-wielding beastmen, not shieldless beetles.

Most pld monsters (crabs, wamouras, etc.) can't block. The only type I know that might be able to (besides beastmen/whatever with shields) is admantoise, and even than that might just be guard or a random physical damage reduction trait SE gave them.

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Originally Posted by Edyth

I'm guessing because the PLD monsters you have in mind are shield-wielding beastmen, not shieldless beetles.

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Actually I have adamantoise in mind. I guess it's probably more like some haxed guard really but they aren't mnk types so yeah. And it's not just pdt since it clear effects some hits but not others. Still begs the question why can I cast reprisal lol. Or why do my thf mobs still get TH and gilfinder when I can't get drops or gil

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Originally Posted by dasva

Actually I have adamantoise in mind. I guess it's probably more like some haxed guard really but they aren't mnk types so yeah. And it's not just pdt since it clear effects some hits but not others. Still begs the question why can I cast reprisal lol. Or why do my thf mobs still get TH and gilfinder when I can't get drops or gil

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TH might be usefull later on, if they add unlockables requiring monster drops. It's pretty early in the content, after all.

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Chigoes attack is broken but has been declared not a bug even though it clearly is broken. Certainly provides a significant loss of game enjoyment to have 40 att at lvl 60. I suggest you actually consider it a bug and fix it

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Again, it isn't a bug. Chigoe gives up some atk in order to hit faster.

If your atk is that low at 60, you're not putting on enough atk instincts.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

Again, it isn't a bug. Chigoe gives up some atk in order to hit faster.

If your atk is that low at 60, you're not putting on enough atk instincts.

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Again you aren't listening. Forgetting how disproportionate the att lose to speed gain is... it is stacking additively . So -50% debuff means you are actually at -90% total. Add in bio and you have -100%. Please tell me what outside of the 2 +% att instincts (one of which gives slow completely destroying the point of using chigoe the other only being 5%) what I can do add to make -100% att not result in 0?

Right now on lvl 60 chigoe +145 att and +47 str and only am up to 242 att. Now I go fight a leech and my att goes down to 40 exactly... so nice try with use more attack instinct but it's completely wrong. Oh and to give you an idea of the difference my 61 scorpion has 545 att with those same instincts and only goes down to 317 att when fighting the leech. Almost 8 times as much att under the same exact situation.... so I'm not sure I'd call it gives up "some att"

Now you could say just don't fight mobs with attack down moves (though really the problem is almost as bad with mobs with +def moves too)... aside from the fact that that pretty much admits it's a huge problem what happens in mvm or mvp? When everyone who knows about this flaw will be able to render your chigoes physical dmg litterally down to 0? Kinda makes the monster unplayable

Also if chigoe is giving up some att to hit faster what exactly is it getting from not being able to use tp?

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Originally Posted by dasva

Again you aren't listening. Forgetting how disproportionate the att lose to speed gain is... it is stacking additively . So -50% debuff means you are actually at -90% total. Add in bio and you have -100%. Please tell me what outside of the 2 +% att instincts (one of which gives slow completely destroying the point of using chigoe the other only being 5%) what I can do add to make -100% att not result in 0?

Right now on lvl 60 chigoe +145 att and +47 str and only am up to 242 att. Now I go fight a leech and my att goes down to 40 exactly... so nice try with use more attack instinct but it's completely wrong. Oh and to give you an idea of the difference my 61 scorpion has 545 att with those same instincts and only goes down to 317 att when fighting the leech. Almost 8 times as much att under the same exact situation.... so I'm not sure I'd call it gives up "some att"

Now you could say just don't fight mobs with attack down moves (though really the problem is almost as bad with mobs with +def moves too)... aside from the fact that that pretty much admits it's a huge problem what happens in mvm or mvp? When everyone who knows about this flaw will be able to render your chigoes physical dmg litterally down to 0? Kinda makes the monster unplayable

Also if chigoe is giving up some att to hit faster what exactly is it getting from not being able to use tp?

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Chigoes have always been a niche mob though... high evasion, low attack, DA, I think I've seen one TA before, the ability to be one shot by criticals.. I'm not surprised they take a big hit when they get womped with attack down at low levels of attack.. I mean attack down takes a huge hit on adventurers at lower levels compared to higher levels where players have the attack to spare

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Originally Posted by Umichi

Chigoes have always been a niche mob though... high evasion, low attack, DA, I think I've seen one TA before, the ability to be one shot by criticals.. I'm not surprised they take a big hit when they get womped with attack down at low levels of attack.. I mean attack down takes a huge hit on adventurers at lower levels compared to higher levels where players have the attack to spare

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First off, if you want to make a monster with low attack, do the smart thing, make it have low attack. Don't incur a 40% natural attack penalty on the creature which is impossible to avoid. For one, it makes it so no matter what you put on it, the attack of instincts and such are lessened quite a bit, if I put DRK on, I get 30 instead of my 50 Attack.

Secondly, its not nearly as simple as you make it seem. Its not something you simply grow out of as you get to higher levels, in fact, it gets worse. At lower levels the amount you lose is not that high, due to your lower attack you normally have, while at higher levels, you need a nice bit of attack to be able to hurt the enemy even, and at higher levels, the enemies you fight have stronger Attack Down effects, such as Bio becoming Bio II or III. The problem mostly comes from the fact it stacks, if it were just a naturally low attack rather than a stacking effect, it would be fine, however, it doesn't work that way. If I normally should have 400 attack, I will have 240, now, if something casts Bio II on me, normally as a monster with 240 I would be reduced 10%, which would leave me at 216, instead, however instead, thanks to the stacking factor, I get left at 200. I am losing basically about 17% Attack because of that massive flaw in the race. What happens when a stronger effect comes along? Something like, say, -40% Attack, which I believe is what Trio Bats give, well, normally my 240 would go to 144, thanks to the fact my attack should be 400 though, and my attack penalty is now a stacked amount of -80%, my attack is left at 80. I am losing 66.6% of my Attack, the overall potency of the Attack down is about 160~170% more effective, just because of my race, at this point, on a Easy Prey mob like a Bat which can do this sort of thing, my attacks would go from wherever they are, do basically a flat out 0.

These mobs already have no TP moves, a large penalty all on its own, to make its attack suck this badly, removes physical from your options of ways to deal damage nearly completely on any mob who can abuse it. Simply avoiding this mobs isn't an answer, its a solution, but only to the extent of saying 'yes, its a problem, but we don't feel like it deserves to be fixed, instead, we rather limit you on where you can play this till you unlock BLM' which is stupid.

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Again you aren't listening. Forgetting how disproportionate the att lose to speed gain is... it is stacking additively . So -50% debuff means you are actually at -90% total.

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So... don't fight stuff that does atk down on you? This isn't rocket surgery, here.

Even on mobs other than chigoe, you usually wouldn't want to fight atk-down capable mobs anyway unless you either have Erase or the ability to beat them before they can do a TP move.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

So... don't fight stuff that does atk down on you? This isn't rocket surgery, here.

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Your right, its not, its simple, just don't give a mob without TP moves super low attack in this form. If you want to give it low attack, do it normally, I assume all of these mobs have a different method of getting attack, I wouldn't know for sure, never check, if so, instead of making a -attack % penalty, there are 2 other ways to do it, either make it naturally just suck at attack, or B, make it a scaling penalty that goes up with every level. Making it a -attack % that stacks is stupid. I guess I can never play as a Chigoe against other players, no matter my level and no matter my type or class, I get to know that a lovely Bio II & some BLU spells or other such abilities will make my attack so low I cant touch them because I flat out suck thanks to a race based penalty.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

So... don't fight stuff that does atk down on you? This isn't rocket surgery, here.

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Thank you for admitting it's a problem that you HAVE to work around :). And one you have zero choice in once you start doing mvm and mvp. Also you face very similar problems on high def +def move mobs.

Not everything is going to be equally good. It can't be done, and even if it could... surprise, that would make things boring. Frankly, the system already IS boring due to how similar most of the monsters play out (mindless auto-attacking things to death and actually succeeding due to ridiculous amounts of HP and HP regeneration), and right now we only have a small fraction of what will eventually be available. If something doesn't tickle your fancy, don't play it. Man, you people act like tiers never existed before in fighting games with loads of characters.

I personally found chigoe to be a change of pace, because it isn't as durable as most other monsters and you have to actually pay more attention to your prey, because that IT++ high def enemy is going to fare a lot better against you than it would on almost any other monster. Nevertheless, I still got it to 60 for my haste+5 instinct, as I imagine most of you will, want to, or already have. It's Monstrosity on hard mode (at least comparatively speaking; playing on almost any other monster feels like easymode in comparison) with a nice reward for sticking it out to at least level 60. Suck it up or go play something else. There's like 50 or so other easymode monsters to use right now and they aren't going to be the last.

Again thank you for admitting it's a problem with your non solution solutions.

If something is broke just pretend it doesn't exist brillant. Never try to fix it. Hell let's treat everything in the game like that. If you don't like it just don't play it. And since there is no to improve on anything in the game or our playing of it let's just do away with the OF they really serve no prupose then. And heck by your logic if what I have to say isn't your cup of tea then just don't read it and don't respond

And oh my I never knew that something that litterally reduces the mobs ability dmg to 0 making it unplayable is just not equally good. Your grasp of the situation is so amazing I don't know what else to say other than I can't wait for your next post about how we should just stick our heads in the sand

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Again thank you for admitting it's a problem with your non solution solutions.

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Except I never said that it was a problem, nor that it is broken. Don't put words in my mouth.

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And oh my I never knew that something that litterally reduces the mobs ability dmg to 0 making it unplayable is just not equally good.

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Oh crap, this mob just petrified me. My ability to do damage is now zero! I'm calling bs, remove petrification from the game!

Try again.

Totally the same thing...

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Totally the same thing...

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My point exactly

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

My point exactly

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Except its not, here, lets take SAM & give it a -40% Attack penalty. It gets TP faster than other jobs, so it WSs faster, the Attack bonus on most of its WSs can make up for the penalty, but it should be balanced, right? How about DRG, they got a Wyvern, support abilities unlike other 2-handed DDs, perhaps we should give them some massive penalty to the job too right? Or DRK, just give them a -40% defense native effect, because after all, its a massive offensive job, tons of attack on that one, should take out its defense so its fair.

No, that's stupid. Chigoes are simply broken. Under the rules of the game when fighting an enemy version of them, it works, because they have special rules that will not allow them to become so worthless, that's why level 1 mobs can hit any level 99 for DMG still, but in the case of us players... its different. We can hit for 0 due to these penalties, they effect us in a much worse and terrible way. If they simply gave us low attack, it would be better, at least then the attack down effects we get from any source would not instantly get a super boost to potency due to our race.

As it has been said, the race attacks a little faster, yippy, but the -attack & no TPs alone is more than enough to make the race suck to the point of being nearly unplayable because of how horrible it is. There is no, 0, zilch, nada reasoning for why this should be stackable with other effects similar to itself in a way that makes a Chigoe basically worthless for physical combat simply because their race was made to have a foolishly implemented naturally unavoidable penalty which brings it down. As I said, I hope no one wants to play as a Chigoe when PvP comes out for this event, because it already is hopeless seeing as unless they change the rules for player monsters, 1 attack down effect is all it takes to make your damage drop to crap.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

Man, you people act like tiers never existed before in fighting games with loads of characters.

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Who knows, maybe the community will go the Pokemon route and make up their own tiers (smogon, official, etc. complete with different clauses and subsets of rules). That's a pretty exciting prospect to me.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

Except I never said that it was a problem, nor that it is broken. Don't put words in my mouth.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

So... don't fight stuff that does atk down on you? This isn't rocket surgery, here.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

don't play it.

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Yes you clearly aren't admitting it's a problem when your solution to things is either just don't play large parts of it or don't play it at all. That sticking your in the sand and pretending there is nothing to see clearly isn't saying there is a problem. Your mastery over logic is simply breathtaking. I'd say I couldn't wait for your next stroke of brillance but you already had another one

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

Oh crap, this mob just petrified me. My ability to do damage is now zero! I'm calling bs, remove petrification from the game!

Try again.

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Because yes something that only does that to 1 mob is totally the same as something that does that to everything. Even better a rather common ability is the same as a fairly rare one. I can't wait for your next totally apt comparison.