Wake up, "Seekers" is failing

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PeaceWalker

This is what they wanted all along, right? To get people out of XI and into XIV.
Too bad they're so out of touch that they don't realize that XI players don't want XIV.
Good job, SE.

---

I don't recall you being made the official spokesperson for all XI players. But to each their own opinion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alerith

I don't recall you being made the official spokesperson for all XI players. But to each their own opinion.

---

Agreed, I am very interested in FFXIV, as are many others.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by detlef

They are probably not supposed to be common, but you were around for Abyssea, Dynamis revamp, and Salvage revamp right? SE has introduced content that centered around building these weapons. And now a lot of people have them. You can argue about whether PT standards all you want, but the fact remains that enough people have RMED weapons that you can fill your Plasm farming DD spots with a single shout. I have not argued that it's right, but that's how it is right now.

Also, you don't have to play for years. You need an NM kill and 30k plasm and you're caught up, weapon-wise. You may not get in as a DD while you're first farming plasm, but that's because there are so many other players who are better geared than you. If you have a problem leveling and playing a support job in order to gear your DD job then this may not be the game for you.

---

This mindset is the reason most of my friends quit.

First off, the content should have never been designed specificially for these weapons alone. We've been over this. Working on it should have been an a-side thing, not the major core game aspect. It's a goal over time, not a mandatory factor.

Secondly, enough people have them? Good for them. What about the people that don't? You haven't solved this problem, yet you are still defending the "I got mine so deal with it." mindset.

Third. Leveling a job you never had an intention to play, just to play the game? Sodd right off with that right now. Seriously. Leveling other jobs has always been optional as well, not mandatory. Now I have to level a WHM to get my great axe weapon for my warrior? What sense does this make? I already went over this point in my first post.

Fourth. This game was the game for me, but I see that it's not anymore because of people backing up ludicrous ideas. I hated HNMs back in the day, but guess what? I still respected the people that did them, and wanted to eventually get that gear. But there was alternates to catch up with. Now? It's just a straight line in tiers. I get my delve weapon by leveling a support class, now what? My other gear in this case would still be all gimpy because I couldn't get into invites for other events because I didn't have a RMED at the time. Time to back-track.

It's fine though, the dwindling numbers are speaking for themselves.

It was the same for HNM days... There was always a need to level support if your DD was shit, or else you were carried by a good group. You make me laugh, go quit for XIV and have to do the same shit there when your gear sucks because your mentality in these games is me me me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Draylo

It was the same for HNM days... There was always a need to level support if your DD was shit, or else you were carried by a good group. You make me laugh, go quit for XIV and have to do the same shit there when your gear sucks because your mentality in these games is me me me.

---

So glad you read the post properly and completely missed what I said. Good job.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by detlef

The point is, if RMED weapons become common enough, they are the new status quo. If they are so common that Delve PT leaders can afford to be picky about who they invite, then your beef about them being "unique tools" that "provide extra punch" is no longer valid.

---

It's fine if they become the status quo. As long as the AH / easily obtainable options aren't light years behind them like they are now.

They have grossly misunderstood the mentality of the player base. People were already excluding "Gimps" back when they killed things 10% slower than pimped out players. Now they just flat out can't kill it.

Sorry, I don't know any MMO where everyone can go meathead DD to an event and win the hardest content. You always need a healer and things like that. Someone has to play that role, and the majority dislike doing it. So yes, you have to play things you dislike sometimes to get what you want.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Draylo

Sorry, I don't know any MMO where everyone can go meathead DD to an event and win the hardest content. You always need a healer and things like that. Someone has to play that role, and the majority dislike doing it. So yes, you have to play things you dislike sometimes to get what you want.

---

Name a few. Most MMOs these days have classes that can spec into 2 of the 3 in the holy trifecta. You always need a healer. Okay, so what? Other people that have it leveled, and properly geared will always be the better pick than your undergeared healing "I had to level this because" job. Why wouldn't I want to play the job I invested the most time into?

By the way, I find FF14 to be meh so far. I'd rather not bother unless I was coaxed into it or someone bought/paid for it for me.

So your excuse is that other people should always be forced onto a job so you can go meathead DD which sucks compared to most? COR or GEO aren't hard to gear or use, it isn't asking much for someone to play those jobs to gear up their DD so it can be actually useful and not carried. If you invested "so much time" then it should be good enough to compete as a DD in current content.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Draylo

So your excuse is that other people should always be forced onto a job so you can go meathead DD which sucks compared to most? COR or GEO aren't hard to gear or use, it isn't asking much for someone to play those jobs to gear up their DD so it can be actually useful and not carried. If you invested "so much time" then it should be good enough to compete as a DD in current content.

---

Funny how you think I'm referring to just myself in this situation, when I'm trying to base this on the whole of the game. Get your head out of your ass.

Regardless, why should players have to level these jobs, when they already started and worked on others they wanted too? What about the players that have leveled stuff like Paladin? Where do they fit into all this if they don't have shit like Ochain or Aegis?

The job you want to play is not always going to be the one that gets the job done. This has been true for over a decade. The difference is that unlike way back when, leveling additional jobs and gearing them to an acceptable baseline is a straightforward process that doesn't take months. Leveling additional jobs to help you gear your favorite job is something that people have been doing since Sky days.

What if you want to play WAR and your friend also wants to play WAR? If you want to accomplish something, one of you is going to have to compromise.

Those players were not serious about Paladin then. It was already stated that Delve was meant for the top tier of players, they are adding content for casual players who refuse to devote time into jobs they "main". I fail to see how this only pertains to FFXI, in what MMO do they let subpar players tank the hardest bosses?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

It's fine if they become the status quo. As long as the AH / easily obtainable options aren't light years behind them like they are now.

They have grossly misunderstood the mentality of the player base. People were already excluding "Gimps" back when they killed things 10% slower than pimped out players. Now they just flat out can't kill it.

---

At the same time, if they made Bayld weapons (as an example) as good as RMEs, people would riot. I do not envy SE, as they are caught between a rock and hard place.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Draylo

Those players were not serious about Paladin then. It was already stated that Delve was meant for the top tier of players, they are adding content for casual players who refuse to devote time into jobs they "main". I fail to see how this only pertains to FFXI, in what MMO do they let subpar players tank the hardest bosses?

---

Here's one. WoW. Looking for Raid. Lets you tank/fight/heal against bosses and learn their moves, as well as get some decent gear off them. After which you can attempt in 10 or 25 man raids for the actual high level tier pieces, and these are progressively harder. It's better than nothing.

Also, if Delve was supposed to be for the top players, that means you are again telling me that RME is a requirement, making me go in circles. Enough.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by detlef

The job you want to play is not always going to be the one that gets the job done. This has been true for over a decade. The difference is that unlike way back when, leveling additional jobs and gearing them to an acceptable baseline is a straightforward process that doesn't take months. Leveling additional jobs to help you gear your favorite job is something that people have been doing since Sky days.

What if you want to play WAR and your friend also wants to play WAR? If you want to accomplish something, one of you is going to have to compromise.

---

In most cases, I asked my friends what they would like to main before we seriously tried at anything, and we always had a nice balanced group. No one was on the same job unless it was an absolute requirement. Most of us had 3-4 jobs leveled anyway, but we put those who were the best at their specific jobs, on that job.

SE's caught themselves in a rock in a hard place by raising the damage values so high up without a real specific reason other than "because" from what I can tell.

The highest tier of Delve is absolutely for higher tier players and RMED is a requirement if you're on a DD job.

For lower tiers, you do not require RMED to win, but you can easily get all the RMED DDs you want off the street with minimal effort.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Radd

Here's one. WoW. Looking for Raid. Lets you tank/fight/heal against bosses and learn their moves, as well as get some decent gear off them. After which you can attempt in 10 or 25 man raids for the actual high level tier pieces, and these are progressively harder. It's better than nothing.

Also, if Delve was supposed to be for the top players, that means you are again telling me that RME is a requirement, making me go in circles. Enough.

---

FFXI has the same thing with Wildskeeper Reives. You fight a lesser version of Delve mega boss, and get gear off them. Then you can attempt the next level content to prepare for the final content which is the delve mega boss... RME isn't a requirement for plasm farming, but the Skirmish weapon is a start (which isn't hard to get or do.)

It feels that there is no longer such a thing as a 2nd best (or acceptable) weapon anymore. It didn't seem that long ago that if somebody didn't have an r/m/e, having certain magian weapons was still viable. Sure, I may not have had an almace, but I do have a str shikagar that can get the job done. With delve, we lost this option so if you don't have the best, you may as well not have anything at all.

Now that I think about it and regarding posts I've seen about people not eating food, I wonder if I could join a plasm farming party by offering to bring either drg or pld/blu/rdm and wield the evasion down weapons I made just for @#$% and giggles. My dmg won't be good but it might help others actually connect their hits. :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by detlef

At the same time, if they made Bayld weapons (as an example) as good as RMEs, people would riot. I do not envy SE, as they are caught between a rock and hard place.

---

Why? They could have made RME's slightly better. They could have made content that didn't require the absolute best to beat as well. It's fine for amazing players to beat things at an amazing pace. It's not fine for them to be the only ones who can do it at all.

Nobody likes paying for a game that they can't enjoy as much as the next guy.

There are things I don't like about Adoulin and it's distribution, but it is all due to bad presentation. Matsui clearly said this expansion is gear towards those who have cleared previous content. This would've gotten across better if it would've been written on the box, on the log in screen, if people's moogles would say it to them, and maybe have the intro Cut scenes mention "it's a bit rough here, I hope you've at least visited 'insert content name here.'". Here are some things that would've made this expansion work a bit better.

1. Explain first.
2. Build upon, do not kill off.
3. Expand.

For point number 1, alot of anguish would've never existed if they would've given this sort of roadmap that they have, at the beginning. I know that ruins the surprise or whatever, but at this point in the game, after that stale year we had with vw and the updates to old content, it seems like a necessity to me. Instead they release things with very little info when alot of people are RELYING on the success of this expansion to determine their future... or lack thereof, with FFXI.

2. Build upon, do not kill off. Delve has become literally a black hole where are all your time and progress are void and null as this gear completely renders most everything else, useless. Some will like this, but they should know better and know that nostalgia is too big a part of the game for that thinking to be successful. Square Enix caused the mandatory need for upgrading mythics and relics by upgrading them when level 75 cap was released. Once you do it, you can't stop. It is then no longer level 75 content. It is then, "i worked hard for this and it deserves infinite updates to match content."

3. Expand. I liked the expansion at the beginning. Delve came and related very little to colonization and rendered skirmish pointless and reive are done at 20% of the frequency as the were prior to delve. The worst part is that they don't seem to even see that and aren't even making any changes to it. Anyroad, the game expanded for me by giving me multiple things to do until delve. Now they have plans to "bring back reive and skirmish" by adding more content to them. If you would've stated this from the beginning, maybe it would've been received better and sought after more. Reive and skirmish should've never been killed off by a single event so soon.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

Why? They could have made RME's slightly better. They could have made content that didn't require the absolute best to beat as well. It's fine for amazing players to beat things at an amazing pace. It's not fine for them to be the only ones who can do it at all.

Nobody likes paying for a game that they can't enjoy as much as the next guy.

---

I was saying if they added easy to get weapons that were as good, people would be upset. I agree that if easily-acquired weapons that were slightly but clearly worse than RME options were introduced, most players would be fine with that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Monchat

70 k plasm is basically 7M per character per run. There are 18 players splitting the airlixir +2 and the horn that dropped so it doesn't greatly enhance the reward on a per character basis. So if you go purely for money, you do like 8M in a successful run of 45 minutes. Sure it's about comparable theoritically to marrows in a 6 man group. There are several issues though

- 18 man event with an experienced LS. In FFXI, no LS has ever been able to successfully gather 18+ ppl for several days or weeks. You can act as if it's as easy as triboxing ADLs, it's not.

---

The bolded part and your similar follow-up comments are not true in the slightest, as could be demonstrated from even a casual perusal of forums devoted to the game. They weren't true ten years ago and they are certainly not true today.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Draylo

So your excuse is that other people should always be forced onto a job so you can go meathead DD which sucks compared to most?

---

... he said to the PLD.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rekin

Is this a real question? I'll answer that with another. If you and your ls have ample time on your hands and have come across a reasonably geared individual with a high level of knowledge of the game and its mechanics yet lack the means to get to your level, would you assist this individual if it meant going through frustrating to boring at best fights? How about if you don't have your ls on hand and its just you and that guy?

---

Yes, it's a real question, because I hate being carried and not being any help at all. I feel as though I have accomplished nothing when that happens, so if someone offered me that, I would turn them down, which is why I found it remarkable when I read complaints that the people who already have theirs aren't willing to come back and help other people catch up.

Yes, I would assist that individual, and I have done so many times. And I think you misjudge how large my LS is. We have a bunch of dual/triboxers in the LS, so we sorta make up for our small numbers, but it's a moot point. I've helped on LB10 about 6 times now when there was nothing in it for me. I've killed promathia so many times I've lost count. I do NNI with strangers even though I have all my gear. I'm willing to help an underdog catch up, though I will admit I still have many goals for myself and I'm not going to spend ALL my time helping others.

So yes, if delve bosses ever become easy for us, we'll probably start allowing undergeared people to tag along as long as they don't muck it up somehow. At the very least, we'd be forming 5 NM kill runs and should be strong enough to carry some newer guys along with us. For the time being though, 5 NM kills are still a bit rough for us, and we still have the boss to worry about after that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yinnyth

Yes, it's a real question, because I hate being carried and not being any help at all. I feel as though I have accomplished nothing when that happens, so if someone offered me that, I would turn them down, which is why I found it remarkable when I read complaints that the people who already have theirs aren't willing to come back and help other people catch up.

Yes, I would assist that individual, and I have done so many times. And I think you misjudge how large my LS is. We have a bunch of dual/triboxers in the LS, so we sorta make up for our small numbers, but it's a moot point. I've helped on LB10 about 6 times now when there was nothing in it for me. I've killed promathia so many times I've lost count. I do NNI with strangers even though I have all my gear. I'm willing to help an underdog catch up, though I will admit I still have many goals for myself and I'm not going to spend ALL my time helping others.

So yes, if delve bosses ever become easy for us, we'll probably start allowing undergeared people to tag along as long as they don't muck it up somehow. At the very least, we'd be forming 5 NM kill runs and should be strong enough to carry some newer guys along with us. For the time being though, 5 NM kills are still a bit rough for us, and we still have the boss to worry about after that.

---

First, that is why when I play monster hunter with people I wear gear for their level. It completes the experience.

Of those things you listed most were low stress, quick events which you would spend more time traveling than fighting. What I am addressing is when you have to bring the person and X number of people required to actually do Y thing which can go between 1hr to 5hrs only to discover that someone is unprepared for the fight and you now have to spend even more time to get another person only to have another core job leave due to time and all your friends/ls mates are unavailable to aid you. Lets also pretend you and the person cannot dual box. Plenty stressful no? This is exactly why people are unwilling to help others go through the hoops. And never mind if the fight/event is boring. What I am getting at is that content needs to be changed to be entertaining for those w/o all your wonderful resources.

inb4. "man up, rage quit, make your own groups, make new friends".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rekin

First, that is why when I play monster hunter with people I wear gear for their level. It completes the experience.

Of those things you listed most were low stress, quick events which you would spend more time traveling than fighting. What I am addressing is when you have to bring the person and X number of people required to actually do Y thing which can go between 1hr to 5hrs only to discover that someone is unprepared for the fight and you now have to spend even more time to get another person only to have another core job leave due to time and all your friends/ls mates are unavailable to aid you. Lets also pretend you and the person cannot dual box. Plenty stressful no? This is exactly why people are unwilling to help others go through the hoops. And never mind if the fight/event is boring. What I am getting at is that content needs to be changed to be entertaining for those w/o all your wonderful resources.

inb4. "man up, rage quit, make your own groups, make new friends".

---

NNI is a 30 minute, high stress event, or it used to be before the changes, and I capped my gear well before the changes and liked it so much that yes, I helped other people as well. 45 minute delve plasm farm is much lower stress. Are you asking would I FORM a delve group when I no longer need anything from delve just because I think someone else needs it? No. But I would join it. Just like I join VW shouts when I don't need anything from them, just because I have nothing else going on, and I feel like helping some guys out.

I'm not going to form a group which may or may not be of use to someone, but I will join one when I know it's of use to someone, and I will give it my all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yinnyth

NNI is a 30 minute, high stress event, or it used to be before the changes, and I capped my gear well before the changes and liked it so much that yes, I helped other people as well. 45 minute delve plasm farm is much lower stress. Are you asking would I FORM a delve group when I no longer need anything from delve just because I think someone else needs it? No. But I would join it. Just like I join VW shouts when I don't need anything from them, just because I have nothing else going on, and I feel like helping some guys out.

I'm not going to form a group which may or may not be of use to someone, but I will join one when I know it's of use to someone, and I will give it my all.

---

NNI is a luck based chore. You could be aces up and get crap jumps, or you could mess up a few times and get to the final floor just to run out of time.

Even still, that is just YOU out of many players who would decide to help the masses out. You are a rare commodity. In most cases, most people wouldn't give two cents about anyone else in the game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Draylo

FFXI has the same thing with Wildskeeper Reives. You fight a lesser version of Delve mega boss, and get gear off them. Then you can attempt the next level content to prepare for the final content which is the delve mega boss... RME isn't a requirement for plasm farming, but the Skirmish weapon is a start (which isn't hard to get or do.)

---

This was good, in theory, but they pretty much nullified the need to do it with the release of Delve. There's no progress, it's actually such a huge jump that doing skirmish really is a waste of time, considering the items needed to be collected and the luck on drops. Why bother doing that X amount of times when you could just get lucky on a KI, go delve farm (on not my main job, as you would want me too, which is a complete deterrent why anyone would play the game in the first place, or just leech if I have a super cool friend who won't give a crap,) and get a delve weapon.

If every event could be 6 manned, and have actual tiered gear or gear based on the event's numbers, (3 man T1, 6 man T2, 12 man T3, 18 man T4) It would have been a way better system and you could progress upwards way easier.

Bayld content is mostly garbage and WS pieces. Anyone full timing in that is just as silly as the people that would full time in Perle or Teal gear.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

... he said to the PLD.

---

This made me laugh as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yinnyth

NNI is a 30 minute, high stress event, or it used to be before the changes, and I capped my gear well before the changes and liked it so much that yes, I helped other people as well. 45 minute delve plasm farm is much lower stress. Are you asking would I FORM a delve group when I no longer need anything from delve just because I think someone else needs it? No. But I would join it. Just like I join VW shouts when I don't need anything from them, just because I have nothing else going on, and I feel like helping some guys out.

I'm not going to form a group which may or may not be of use to someone, but I will join one when I know it's of use to someone, and I will give it my all.

---

See that is what I already do, but as a whole does not address the issue that plagues the majority of the player base. The lack of motivation to do the middle content, why? because its pointless and in the face of the pugs no one gives a crap if your running around with NNI/Salvage 2.0/skirmish if you lack a delve weapon. Oh and lets not forget the career mage players who aren't WHM have little reason to be excited over anything... even then WHMs have maybe 1 piece of notable gear in delve?(not counting club)

But returning to my main point, the reason why the majority of players don't wanna go back through the hoops is mainly because the hoops are covered in rusty barbs that are on fire and have some old lady with a megaphone screaming into your face the entire time. Sure its easy riding along with it but to be honest whilst you wait for the others do get ready chances are you aren't even looking at your screen until people are about ready to do the fight. In the past week I spent most of my time playing on my DS whilst waiting for people to gather or prep for fights in the few hours I was logged on.

Something the QQer of the thread did not understand is that it's nearly impossible to play the game without dualboxing. I mean even in abyssea time, it was basically needed to get an empy. Adoulin is even worse because you cannot physically cross a zone solo, let alone defeat a NM solo. Sure you will always find someone explaining you to suck less and get a LS. You can't even find any decent LS doing exclusively delve atm so I doubt anyone would find a LS helping you RME. Once you understand this you can probably keep playing. Other wise your game experience will be harsh.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MarkovChain

Something the QQer of the thread did not understand is that it's nearly impossible to play the game without dualboxing. I mean even in abyssea time, it was basically needed to get an empy. Adoulin is even worse because you cannot physically cross a zone solo, let alone defeat a NM solo. Sure you will always find someone explaining you to suck less and get a LS. You can't even find any decent LS doing exclusively delve atm so I doubt anyone would find a LS helping you RME. Once you understand this you can probably keep playing. Other wise your game experience will be harsh.

---

there are enough decent LSs out there that do Delve on almost a daily bases with megaboss kill. The real problem is none of those LSs would accept you!

The fundamental problem why some people struggle to do LSs is because the "Me me me" mentality alot of people have.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MarkovChain

Something the QQer of the thread did not understand is that it's nearly impossible to play the game without dualboxing. I mean even in abyssea time, it was basically needed to get an empy. Adoulin is even worse because you cannot physically cross a zone solo, let alone defeat a NM solo. Sure you will always find someone explaining you to suck less and get a LS. You can't even find any decent LS doing exclusively delve atm so I doubt anyone would find a LS helping you RME. Once you understand this you can probably keep playing. Other wise your game experience will be harsh.

---

Isnt the entire point of an MMO to play with other people!? everything should NOT be soloable.. if you cant make friends and need to duelbox instead thats on you..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Babygyrl

Isnt the entire point of an MMO to play with other people!? everything should NOT be soloable.. if you cant make friends and need to duelbox instead thats on you..

---

Playing with other people doesn't necessarily have to mean 18 other people from the same server for 1 - ? hours uninterrupted. It can mean playing with 3 other people or 5 or just trading goods or cooperating on things like reives or crafting etc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

Playing with other people doesn't necessarily have to mean 18 other people from the same server for 1 - ? hours uninterrupted. It can mean playing with 3 other people or 5 or just trading goods or cooperating on things like reives or crafting etc.

---

Indeed.

In fact, I think it's safe to say it's up to the player on an individual level to decide how much depth they want their multiplayer experience to have.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

Playing with other people doesn't necessarily have to mean 18 other people from the same server for 1 - ? hours uninterrupted. It can mean playing with 3 other people or 5 or just trading goods or cooperating on things like reives or crafting etc.

---

Absolute truth. People get way to literal over the initials MMO. Multiplayer means more than 1, multiple. Not 18. Not 36. Just 2.

You can "interact" with whoever you want, millions of people in fact. But being required is just blah. I personally can't find 17 other humans I even tolerate on the planet, let alone in a realm of a couple thousand. I can bite my tongue and play along sure, but it's loosing its charm.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

Playing with other people doesn't necessarily have to mean 18 other people from the same server for 1 - ? hours uninterrupted. It can mean playing with 3 other people or 5 or just trading goods or cooperating on things like reives or crafting etc.

---

This needs to be quoted again for truth. I LOVE the concept of an MMO just because it allows me to play a fantasy game with 3 friends who live hundreds of miles from me. Nothing about "multi-player" suggests that should always mean large group requirements.

The only thing I see in the update that sounds small-group friendly is changes to Revies, which were only fun for about a week to begin with :( I can't convince anyone to remain on XI when our only option in new content is bug patrol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Merton9999

The only thing I see in the update that sounds small-group friendly is changes to Revies

---

Missions, Quests, Mog Gardens, Coalition assignments, new areas to explore, Monstrosity, Skirmish, and lastly yes, Reives. I saw quite a few things in there myself. In the end, still not what matters most, broken things are still broken, Delve is still to many people with no announced low-man version, they said they are working on it, but no release. Which to me means its coming to late to matter to anyone interested probably because FFXIV, or simply people not willing to wait on the game to be worth playing anymore.

I think one thing SE's failing to realize here, is how the game changed after they raised the level cap. Back at 75 cap, very few things could be lowmanned. Then abyssea was released along with the level cap being lifted, and once we learned the ins and outs of abyssea, we also learned that lowmanning was the way to go for efficiency. Along with abyssea, there were also being made changes to older events, which allowed us to lowman or even solo those aswell. All this contributed to the death of the typical large endgame linkshells as we knew them.

Then SE gave us Legion, which was not possible to lowman. And we all know how successful that event turned out to be. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed Legion myself and was lucky enough to be a part of a group of players which were highly successful at the event. But overall there weren't that many linkshells across servers that were able to do Legion successfully. In addition to requiring a larger number of participants, it was also a reasonably difficult event, in the sense that it required cooperation, players needed to focus, and they needed adequate gear (for example stun sets). This would be the reason why Legion shout groups failed, at least in my opinion.

And now they've added Delve, another 18-man event (talking about the boss fights incase someone wants to argue how certain nms can be lowmanned). And again we're seeing the same thing as with Legion - few linkshells are successful.

The player base has also been dwindling, making it even harder to find competent players to do non-lowmannable events with.

Those who know me, will probably call me hardcore, and those who think they know me will probably call me elitist. Actually, some of those who know me will probably call me elitist too. But believe me or not, I'm not liking this at all - "this" being how Adoulin and Delve seem to create an even bigger gap between the haves and the have-nots in this game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tamoa

All this contributed to the death of the typical large endgame linkshells as we knew them.

---

Good riddance.

There are people who like being in such linkshells, and people who are in such linkshells because they must. Adding more content that didn't require marshaling such large groups let us see who fell into what category. It turns out that hardly anybody actually liked such set-ups.

Not disagreeing with you at all. What I meant to point out was by going from large endgame type linkshells (including linkshells for specific events only, like dynamis/Einherjar/Limbus) to linkshells consisting of way fewer members because nothing really required more than 6 people tops, didn't exactly help Legion becoming a more popular event. But you could still get by just fine without doing Legion, there were plenty of other activities to choose from.

And now there's Delve, which also requires more people. And if you miss the boat now, it'll only become increasingly difficult to catch up and worst case scenario you'll find yourself left further and further behind - at least that's what I predict when I read the posts regarding future updates.