[dev1000] Dynamis Reborn!

So i guess who claim get drop in they PT/Aliance, still don't like the idea of this. Specially if is 'open zone for everyone'

The good news is that not the WoE system.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Hey everyone,

I wanted to shed some light on a correction we made to the original post:

• Monster claim and item drops will work the same way as in regular fields and dungeons.

Sorry for the earlier confusion and I hope this clears things up!

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Thanks for clearing that up.

That means officially any dynamis ls that runs with more than 18 people (if such ls exist anymore) will be limited to 18 onry, w/o a lot of party swapping.

Well at least they cleared that up. Now the real question is are they making the rest of it like any other zone where the mobs in the zone will pop more than twice with the added groups inside competing for them?

kinda, abyssea is limited at 18 too and is still possible to run with 36 member, but ya i see what you mean anyway ^^

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Originally Posted by kaht

Thanks for clearing that up.

That means officially any dynamis ls that runs with more than 18 people (if such ls exist anymore) will be limited to 18 onry, w/o a lot of party swapping.

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^ This does still exist and thankfully I am not an officer in the Dyna group I run with this will make things rough on us for a while til it gets sorted out.

They haven't divulged any information, but logically I only see it being possible if Mobs repop. I'm guessing they'll have camps of different mobs, enough to facilitate a few groups.

@Ilax
Sorry I deralied, these things change topic and its hard to keep track, so whats the problem here then???

and thanks on the funny compliment, I try to post as I try to play, to have a little fun away from RL stress (jost got very upset about the car agency cheated on the recipe taxes so now I cant deduce my car on tax recovery... frigging lot of money lost...)

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Originally Posted by Camate

Hey everyone,

I wanted to shed some light on a correction we made to the original post:

• Monster claim and item drops will work the same way as in regular fields and dungeons.

Sorry for the earlier confusion and I hope this clears things up!

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So competition for "???" targets and MPK attempts at Dynamis Lord (bad) but no zone wide loot pool (good). Re-entry changes to 1 earth day but is there still a time limit for how long you can be inside the zone?

Time to camp the ??? for Dynamis Lord... 100% 100 currency gogo!

Hm... probably the spawn of ??? NMs like Dyna Lord will be with pop items like the ones in Abyssea... so one member of a pt need to have all 3 (was it 3? I dont remember) to pop DL.

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Originally Posted by azjazo

@Ilax
Sorry I deralied, these things change topic and its hard to keep track, so whats the problem here then???

and thanks on the funny compliment, I try to post as I try to play, to have a little fun away from RL stress (jost got very upset about the car agency cheated on the recipe taxes so now I cant deduce my car on tax recovery... frigging lot of money lost...)

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Sorry to hear that =(

Hmm wonder if they will do NMs like Dyna Lord like they do KI pop NMs for abyssea maybe?

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Originally Posted by GERM

spending 500k (was 1m) per run and making gil off this was not a monopoly if you wanted to upgrade relics this was a must and now its a reduced entry time and hopefully a increased currency output for quicker upgrades. I will one day have to achieve this and I hope my shell keeps doing it despite what is to come, problem is if they reduce drops to alliance/party then a lot of people are going to get screwed in the long run from shells since there are still a limited amount of people that can be in an alliance and sometimes members participation exceeds 18 people..

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Bingo. you win the prize. that is it right there. that is the only problem i see with it. It's like going to Dynamis-tav and the first 18 get to go, sorry rest of you have to sit out. Our LS still has 18+ members go to dynamis when they all show up.

Couldn't you just split up and drop and reinvite people as necessary? It really doesn't seem like that much of a dilemma.

to be honest it would actually be more efficient solution to kick underperformers from the shell to limit to 18 but as I said before thankfully not my decision to make, but definitely an obstacle to deal with for the larger shells that still exist.

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Bingo. you win the prize. that is it right there. that is the only problem i see with it. It's like going to Dynamis-tav and the first 18 get to go, sorry rest of you have to sit out. Our LS still has 18+ members go to dynamis when they all show up.

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So split into two groups, and when one group gets something someone in the other needs, that person drops and joins the other group to lot on the item.

It's not that hard.

(and really- I can't remember the last time I had dynamis with more than 18 people)

Considering the shear amount of effort I've put into the dynamis shell I've run for many years now... and finally being SO close to completing my first relic... I'm very not happy with what they are going to do to dynamis. It's taken me this long to get close... and now that I'm ALMOST there... they are going to change it again... and make it harder for me to complete it. It wouldn't be bad if they made it an INSTANCE zone but if it's an Open zone... all it's going to do is create: Have's and Have Not's. AKA "I HAVE GIL!" and "I WISH I had the gil" This isn't solving problems... it's making MORE. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

If you want to finish up your relic the old way just go do CoP dynamis then.

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Originally Posted by Gwynplaine

If you want to finish up your relic the old way just go do CoP dynamis then.

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Itt: because everyone know CoP zone always been the best for currency...

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Originally Posted by varistor

Bingo. you win the prize. that is it right there. that is the only problem i see with it. It's like going to Dynamis-tav and the first 18 get to go, sorry rest of you have to sit out. Our LS still has 18+ members go to dynamis when they all show up.

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Already been pointed out, but that's like saying Abyssea doesn't support linkshells because the maximum number of people in an alliance is 18. It doesn't even make any sense. Any good linkshell is capable of multitasking. The only events that would ever suffer from size limitations are things like Limbus and, drumroll, old dynamis.

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Originally Posted by Ilax

Itt: because everyone know CoP zone always been the best for currency...

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I didn't even know cop zones dropped currency.

Who's to say they can't adjust that?

Original Dynamis zones: New system
CoP Dynamis Zones: Original system with drop adjustments.

Everyone's happy.

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Originally Posted by Kagato

Who's to say they can't adjust that?

Original Dynamis zones: New system
CoP Dynamis Zones: Original system with drop adjustments.

Everyone's happy.

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Yeah that would be nice. /nod

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Originally Posted by Caria

Ilax, you are not alone. Dynamis and working toward my relic with a group of faithful friends with whom I have been working for years on end is one of the sole reasons I still log into this game. I have been appalled by many of the changes in the game since the advent of Abyssea and the new level caps. I am a particularly goal driven person. I don't enjoy very many video games because they tend to be very focused on the short-term goals. I fell in love with FFXI when I found out how hard a game it really was, when I realized I could have goals that extended several years out and be successfully working toward those goals. I joined a dynamis group a number of years ago and made a lot of friends that way. The dynamis system was challenging if a little repetitive, but I felt things were balanced very well. I particularly liked the fact that it allowed a system for needing many people working together to empower each other, one at a time, to get their relic weapons, the best weapons in the game (at the time). I never took issue with the fact that others were getting their relic before me. We were all enjoying ourselves and taking on the challenge of clearing these zones, or even just getting wins. It took hard work on the part of everyone there.

In the recent updates, this has largely changed. While there is a key core of my group that has come together, we are small, because the rewards of dynamis have largely been outdated and the new level caps have largely taken the challenge out of these areas. Our core group still works together, and we manage to recruit new people often, though they don't stay long because the experience of working together is so much less rewarding when the challenge is gone. To a large extent the damage has already been done. I have been hoping for a revamping of Dynamis, but not to make it easier and more accessible, but harder and more challenging with the same currency rewards and hopefully a new way to make the relic armor more competitive.

I am very concerned about the future of Dynamis now after reading this new information. Removing the need for reservation sounds like making it like the WoE, which at least on my server, has been a very failed system. While many people have been discouraged by the fact that traditional Dynamis shells worked by getting one person in the shell the relic before the next stepped up, I found this to be an exceptionally well designed system when it worked among loyal friends. I have been working for a number of months now on my relic with the help of my group, and there are people still waiting in line. It concerns me that these people may never get their chance, if this new system makes the system open to all and we have to compete for currency.

I am glad to see from the posts here that I am not the only person worried about these changes. I understand the need to make the game accessible to new people to keep it alive and profitable. But this does not mean that everything has to be made easy. Give the new people competitive gear, but don't have it be equal to the gear that people have worked years to obtain. SE, you gave the new people Abyssea, WoE, Campaign, etc. Do you really have to give them Dynamis and the relics too? Please, don't make this a free for all. Let the shells that have been functioning for many years continue.

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I don't have the time to invest to read more but I do agree with this post a lot. People stay in FFXI because it is one of the few major mmo's out there today that remain difficult. Making everything easy mode, if anything, will lose dedicated subscribers and not be enough oomph to attract replacement subscribers. In short destroying what is monetarily for SE, and will destroy the experience for those who love it for what it is. While I applaud the recent changes as they will allow some people to actually get through everything the game has to offer, removing any and all challenge from the game will devalue the worth of accomplishments to a point where like many mmo's today, it doesn't feel worth doing.

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Originally Posted by rog

I didn't even know cop zones dropped currency.

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...
I hope that was sarcastic.

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Originally Posted by Burmecia

Yeah that would be nice. /nod

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Yes i agree, that would be nice they keep CoP old style and adjust the drop. Just still bad if no one buy the new idea and everyone end to fight for the only 4 zone left =(

I would like to share the way my dynamis shell does dynamis and the way we handle currency. Our shell has been around for some 6+ years in 1 form or another, we have completed 4 relics and our 5th is almost completed.

Currently, 1 person pays for the glass and collects all the currency for relic upgrade. The rest of the people that are there are either there to help the funder, or there to lot af2. The funder is one that has been in the group for a while and has put in the work with the shell and has the ability to fund constantly.

Based on my 5+ years with the shell and my data on my own relic here are some thoughts. For my relic, gjallarhorn it took 1 year 7 months to complete with funding, at the time funding was split 3 ways. I did a combination funding/buying, totaling 134 funding runs and 49 million gil spent.I can say that without funding, I would never have finished relic without have spending over 100 mil at the currency rates at the time. 57% of the 14400 was funded and 43% was purchased.

From this data, I have concerns about any change to dynamis. If each of us has to buy a key item from npc, this would eliminate the sole funder, as I would think everyone would want a cut of the currency since they paid for their key item. A solution for this would be the funder to pay for a members key item, but I don't really feel this is fair either unless all members are static. Even if you had 18 static members, if they all wanted to work on a relic, it would increase the total time needed to fund by a factor of 6. Now I know some of you will say but what about you can now enter every real day. I don't know about you, but those of us who have done dynamis for years, I doubt could survive doing it every single day. Doesn't this contradict the agreement that we accept when we enter ffxi, SE by making it able to enter everyday yes it would be possible to complete a relic in 52 days at that rate, but at what cost? There would definitely be a real life cost.

Not everything has to be like abyssea to succeed. I for one liked the challenge of relic, SE for years has said relic would not be for everyone, that it takes dedication to achieve it. In my opinion to lessen it would cheapen the accomplishment of all those who have completed relics.

So to recap, my points I would like to bring up are these:

1) Think of how it would affect the current way of funding. I know SE in the past wanted 64 people to share the cost of glass, but this is not the way the playerbase decided to do it. The playerbase has mostly used the few funders get all the currency to speed up the completion of relic.

2) Think of the reasoning the players have used for the funding. If 1 person buys the hourglass for entry, they should get all the currency from the zone as without the hourglass none of us could enter. If everyone has to get a key item that is only obtained once, this affects how the current way that currency is handled. To equally split currency among all that participate it would take 936 days(2.56 years) to complete all 18 relics, if we use the 52 days to complete a relic(52 * 18 = 936). That is 936 days of constant dynamis, which I highly doubt all 18 would do.

I really don't want to see people fighting over mobs. They can add more spawns and make boss's force popped, but just looks at bastok mines - its only so large. Dyna bastok is a copy+paste of it with darker lighting. There isn't a lot of room to add more mobs in. When we had full dyna groups in they they were all from the same ls...Can you imagine that many people trying to claim a mob or a "???" target? Just the competition will be bad enough, but if they leave in a clock ticking to kick you out after so many minutes it'll be even worse trying to get anything done.

You know what they should be doing this to? Limbus zones. Get dynamis money from exchange of ancient beastcoin. As long as they left ultima/omega as a bcnm battle they could do whatever to the normal apollyon and temenos zones since a boss clear boots you from zone and you can't jump right back in to monopolize. Hey there is an idea. Kill dynamis NM, everyone on its hate list gets kicked out for 1 earth day.

...Basically all I'm saying they darn better make sure the selfish people in this game don't have a way to screw it up for the rest of us before they release this change. That is something they've not been so good with in the past (lookin at you bot-claimed land kings back when kings mattered).

Edit:
the sponsoring issue is a good point, but if you can afford to buy the glass now in theory you should be able to just buy your currency with the new supposedly more plentiful amounts post update.

We already have Abyssea. Why make Dynamis into Abyssea? That's not saving Dynamis, it's using the name "Dynamis" to refer to something that isn't Dynamis anymore.

The whole thing that has made Dynamis my favorite event in the game is that you go in with a group of friends, and together as a team you take on an entire zone. Everyone has to work together, following a strategy, in a spirit of companionship and friendship. That is the true essence of Vana'diel.

Now that's going away. It's going to be just another zone with random people getting in the way of this great cooperative effort. You're taking what made Dynamis special, and throwing it away to make it just like Abyssea. Sure, Abyssea is very well done, exceptionally good in fact. But we already have Abyssea, we don't need another one called "Dynamis."

What distinguished FFXI from other MMORPGs was the need for cooperation, a rich storyline and in-game culture, and difficult challenges. There was no Easy Button, and I liked that. That's why I picked FFXI over the others, even having never played another Final Fantasy game before.

You see, Dynamis for me has never been about the drops. It's the fun, the challenge, the teamwork, the concept and storyline, that's what has been important to me. It's the immersion in the world, the culture and history of Vana'diel, and the friends I make along the way. You're keeping only the part that's least important to me -- the drops -- and wrecking everything else.

Why not just leave Dynamis as it is? No-one revamped Garrison (another great event) when people stopped doing that. If people want to move on, just let them move on.

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Originally Posted by VoiceMemo

...If each of us has to buy a key item from npc, this would eliminate the sole funder, as I would think everyone would want a cut of the currency since they paid for their key item. A solution for this would be the funder to pay for a members key item, but I don't really feel this is fair either unless all members are static. ...

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Key item is one time buy only. Probably the goblin will check if u have requisite (liv65+ rank6) and let you buy it.
Then u need nothing else and can enter freely dynamis every 24 hours.

Lots of good points in this thread. I agree that the double-edged sword of this change S-E is proposing will potentially cripple the efficiency of current Dynamis groups, but most of this is all speculation at this point. I've been doing Dynamis off and on for the past 4-5 years and the old system worked quite well. However, it seems to be more of a chore to me than the rewards (or in my case, complete LACK of rewards due to miserable luck ::shakes fists at Duke Berith:: ) promise to pay off. Granted, Dynamis currency isn't impossibly expensive to purchase, or rare enough to make farming it daunting (relatively, at least), it IS grossly inflated relative to the cost and effort necessary to obtain it. I'm actually interested in the changes coming up as well as the promise of a more casual approach at this content.

I would like to propose a 'Have Cake / Eat Cake' solution to the situation. Whether it's viable or not is irrelevant to me at this time because I don't claim to know or care about SE's server situation.

They can make Dynamis both instanced AND open to all. Keep the current form of the event intact, and as is, but with the new additions and modifications except keeping a 3 day cool down to avoid server monopolization. Employ a reservation system similar to the reservations required for Ballista or Brenner (I know that time is volatile in Dynamis, but not discussing in-depth mechanics here) requiring participants to have a copy of the reservation to enter. This will keep Dynamis linkshells able to operate as before without impacting efficiency. On top of this, have a SEPARATE instance of the zone with the 'open to all' framework in place. In order to encourage team play and to avoid the lazy factor, make the drops in the free-for-all zones moderately more infrequent and difficult to obtain than the dedicated zones. This will allow for more casual players to enjoy Dynamis at their leisure, but not invalidate the efforts of the more dedicated player bases.

Also, in order to allow both player bases the same opportunities, allow the players on dedicated zones to play in the open zones 24 hours from their previous entry regardless the instance of the prior event.

Just my suggestion. I figure that would make things enjoyable for all. Sorry for the length.

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The whole thing that has made Dynamis my favorite event in the game is that you go in with a group of friends

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It wasn't really the design of the event that made the event popular, it was the good rewards for doing it. That's not to say that Dynamis was bad, but it had some issues, like scheduling problems, that often caused conflict between groups, which is the main reason for these changes. Making the Relic armor more accessible so that it can be a go-between between artifact and empyrean may have also played a role.

Now, I did like the fixed nature of Dynamis, where it took learning and planning to master it that went above and beyond small battlefields with a couple monsters. I will somewhat miss that, but at the same time, Many of us have beaten the crap out of the fixed Dynamis setups and I do think it will be an interesting change to have things all moved around. As others have said, doing the same 4 hour event over and over eventually became more of a chore than fun, even with the promise of a reward (though fun moments still occurred now in then with massive links and spectacular wipes :p )

I like the idea of being able to go every 24 hours. I don't think I like the idea of it being like Walk of Echos. I hate that anyone can enter WoE. Totally messed up our run the other day. Not to mention if we are farming the -10 cure cast time neck for our whms, then anyone can come in and get it. Right now it's like 1.7m on our server. Kinda stinks that way. This will kill getting currency for relics (if you do that). Anyone can come in and lot whatever they want. That stinks.

So the fair version of dynamis was where one person or a small group of people within a shell reap far greater rewards than others for the same amount of time/effort invested? The faulty system is the one where all have an equal oppertunity to reap the same rewards? Don't get me wrong WoE style would have been fail but as I read the changes to be made, only NM monopolization is even a concern. Not that you didn't have zone monopolization before.

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Originally Posted by Antonioklaus

I like the idea of being able to go every 24 hours. I don't think I like the idea of it being like Walk of Echos. I hate that anyone can enter WoE. Totally messed up our run the other day. Not to mention if we are farming the -10 cure cast time neck for our whms, then anyone can come in and get it. Right now it's like 1.7m on our server. Kinda stinks that way. This will kill getting currency for relics (if you do that). Anyone can come in and lot whatever they want. That stinks.

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Dev team member said a couple pages back that it is NOT open pool like WOE, so all the WOE comparisons can die now.

Haven't read the whole thread, but has anyone said anything about what will happen if you have a glass at the time of the update? Should I use the glass that I have, or will I be able to trade it for key items etc ?

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Originally Posted by VoiceMemo

I would like to share the way my dynamis shell does dynamis and the way we handle currency. Our shell has been around for some 6+ years in 1 form or another, we have completed 4 relics and our 5th is almost completed.

Currently, 1 person pays for the glass and collects all the currency for relic upgrade. The rest of the people that are there are either there to help the funder, or there to lot af2. The funder is one that has been in the group for a while and has put in the work with the shell and has the ability to fund constantly.

... <bunch of other nonsense about how a sponsor should keep all the currency> ...

2) Think of the reasoning the players have used for the funding. If 1 person buys the hourglass for entry, they should get all the currency from the zone as without the hourglass none of us could enter. If everyone has to get a key item that is only obtained once, this affects how the current way that currency is handled. To equally split currency among all that participate it would take 936 days(2.56 years) to complete all 18 relics, if we use the 52 days to complete a relic(52 * 18 = 936). That is 936 days of constant dynamis, which I highly doubt all 18 would do.

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This whole post reminds me of that South Park episode where they showed Lars Ulrich sitting by his pool with a sad look on his face. Because of people downloading Metallica songs off napster, Lars couldn't afford to line his pool with gold that month - instead he had to wait till next month.

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Originally Posted by DEV1000

# Along with the reduction of the entry time restriction, the amount of Ancient Currency earned per session will be lowered. Overall, this change should increase the Ancient Currency distributed across the World.

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I don't really know if everyone realize that after update:
# You will need to invest more time to get relic weapon.
# You have to deal with competition more then ever for relic weapon.
# The charge going to be once per day for every player that attend dynamis run (like limbus).
# Every linkshell (Example on fenrir for Wed/Sun 8pm est, is 4 linkshell before merge) that will need to fight for the 4 zone left [CoP].

You can for sure expect currency to jump skyrocket, because:
# Everyone going to feel 'Hey i worked hard for what i got' and it cost me something.
# Everyone going to dream again they can obtain relic. Making the Demand >> Offer.

Idk why ppl seem to forget they experience with ffxi in general, Limbus have same system for the cost, but is still close zone, now add competition into it and you obtain dynamis V2. I can already see a tons of people ready to join this new event, not because they really wan the LOL-GEAR from dynamis (i think that been say just too many time in this thread) But more to try get a gil reward out of it. For who that actually making a relic with the OLD system, trust me they all not happy about this change.

The change from base is 1x per day instead 1x per 3 day, is 3x more, but do not forget the fact that SE said: 'the amount of Ancient Currency earned per session will be lowered'. Can be sure at the moment 10,000+ player are back dreaming they will get relic, but i have a bad news, the offers still not that high to get that many relic, so yes, you can see the price skyrocket for sure, or we might see everyone just say: F@c# that $h*t when they see the dream still remain not possible after tasting the bot claiming (HNM Ref), the major LS monopolizing every best camp (like we see in abyssea). And in the end who really going to be happy about all this? Trust me, not Mr. everyone, still going to be the most organized LS including RMT.

# Obviously, keep in mind been long time enough that HNM ls or RMT have multi-Mule / Character, be ready to see them fully monopolize this. Also keep in mind for those kind of LS, is just too easy with abyssea to create a MULE every day to lv90, making them able to just rotate they mule and stay inside dynamis Day long. So what about everyone again? oh yes, another false dream.

Another point of view, is not much possible for normal human to stay awake 24/24 7/7, but for RMT with organization is fully possible to be there 24/24, so that might of course reward them a tons of currency. Everyone get your paypal ready, might be soon possible to buy relic for only 1,000$ instead 3,000$. Seriously i hope SE drop this idea, i can't really see anything positive into it.

Do the math yourself if you think i am wrong, once per 72h for 4h event mean 72h/4 = 18 mule x 12 player (216 lv90) but 24h/4 = 6 * 12 = 72 lv90 needed to fully monopolize the new system. Its an open event so be ready to accept them into it.

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Originally Posted by Ilax

But no matter my way or your way, we still derail about the subject, making 'open zone' wont help any of us.

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There are times I openly question the motives of Square-Enix regarding player conduct and all.

They can say what they want, but this whole "relic" situation (and I finally am looking in, with some seriousness, to working toward that direction, should Square-Enix' MMO division last that long!) sounds ugly.

I remember, before Campaign actually added currency to the situation, currency being 5/10 (5K for Bynes, 10K for the other two). Now, I'm lucky if it's not 7/14. Given what some of these idiots are going to do, what are we looking at? 10/20? WORSE??? (Especially because the Devs have now said that the amount of currency per run is going to drop)

And as for Camate's stating that monster claim and item drops will work the same as regular areas, that's nice -- problem is you're going to have a gazillion people running around trying to outclaim each other -- that's bot city, in case you people who haven't nearly dealt with this problem on an organizational level at Square-Enix don't get it...

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Originally Posted by Starcade

problem is you're going to have a gazillion people running around trying to outclaim each other -- that's bot city

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Just like Abyssea is bot city right now.

Oh wait...