Scholar Has lost it's ability to be useful, please fix this.

Just putting it out there, that's better than anything the jobs that don't get to go for xyz reason get to do.

Go complain on their forums then.

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Originally Posted by Raksha

typically you embrava and stun

(yeah i don't like it either, but that's what this thread is about)

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Sounds boring, I'll avoid it in that case or form my own party of people who know how to make the most of SCH. Theres hundreds of BLM/RDM out there who can stun.

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Originally Posted by Raksha

Go complain on their forums then.

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Lol, who's doing the complaining? The original posts title uh.... Yeah.

Sch is far from useless. "."<<<<

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Originally Posted by Thorbean

Sounds boring, I'll avoid it in that case or form my own party of people who know how to make the most of SCH. Theres hundreds of BLM/RDM out there who can stun.

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Yes but nothing is better then SCH for stun duty then SCH/BLM. With haste + embrava their capping recast, then they can use a stratagem to cut it's recast in half. You end up with a 5s recast on stun and one to two SCH/BLM's can lock down any NM. It's become a vital strategy on PW and Legion.

That being said, SCH is an epically amazing job. It's remembered for Embrava because of how stupidly powerful it is. Its a miniature 12m brew. Outside of that SCH has potent healing, buffing and nuking.

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Originally Posted by Thorbean

I don't know what kind of parties you are in but if you need more than Regen V + -45 damage/hit phalanx and maybe a bar spell then your SCH team mate will probs be pretty upset too O.o. Let's be honest, it takes around 60 seconds to helix + throw out a few nukes while weather swapping (at the absolute most). If you can't last that long with Regen V then you should probs rethink your strategy and bring more appropriate gear for the situation? You can always halt your attack and switch back to LA if you really need to, but that shouldn't happen often. Remember your party should be aware of what you are doing, don't just do it without letting them know.



Nobody is disputing that WHM is an amazing healer, thats it's job after all. Those cures are rarely needed if you are fully buffed and geared right. In a small party that is, If you have 10 people eating AoE then you are doing it wrong. and a WHM would be hard pressed to keep up with that without 69hp/tic regen easing the load.

Ps. 45 reduction phalanx on the party absorbs more damage than 350 cureskins over the duration of a fight.



Again, I'm not disputing that, I'm leaving it out of the discussion because SCH is so much more than just that 1 spell. If thats all you get from your SCH's then they are also doing it wrong.



It is opinion because:
A: I have never used stun as sch because /RDM has so much more to give.
B: Lots of jobs have access to their own stun and should be able to use it well.
C: Standing around doing nothing, hovering over a stun macro is a waste of a scholars time and ability's.
D: If you need to stun so often that SCH is required for strats then you are feeding way to much TP and wasting the SCH's strats.

Are there really this many bad scholars around that all anyone thinks of them is an embrava bi**h?
The job is perfect for those of us who enjoy playing in a pair or trio, you can fill the roll of BLM and WHM for your team mate and not have to depend on other people and or timezones.

There are problems with the job i admit (such as MV and libra) but those problem abilitys could be completely removed from the game and SCH could still perform just as well. they certainly don't make the job useless. Flexibility is SCH's greatest strength, that's something only a hand full of jobs can boast.

@Delvish I'd still main SCH even if embrava was removed :). I'm surprised Kaustra isn't talked about as much as embrava. when it comes to soloing NM's, a kaustra, helix, bio II and pois II + kite is an effective win with almost 0 TP feed.

I find Klimaform quite nice for landing enfeebles the target is resistant too (though that has been somewhat reduced with the new enfeeb resist system ><). I wouldn't be against a merit category for it though.

I posted a couple of suggestions for MV and libra (Mainly making MV simply add the damage again rather than multiplying, with a 100% landing rate reinstated). I agree though that these abilitys are frustrating at best.

Adloquium I rarely cast, but it can increase the frequency of WS occassionaly (IE. when your melee ends up at 99 TP, with Adl. up, they can get a WS off and the next attack round is building TP again).
I wouldn't put it in the useless camp, but 1-2 gear pieces that increase TP by 1 per tick would make this a very nice spell indeed.
My LS generally ask for me to come as SCH if they are doing anything hard, alot more than they ask for a WHM or BLM at least. I'm not exactly trigger happy when it comes to casting embrava either, I usually save it for when somethin goes wrong or I need the extra HP/tick when soloing stuff.
My machine struggles in huge alliances though so any party I'm in is usually no more than 6 bodies. AoE 850 cures with Aurorastorm (I only have 19% cure potency atm :() + regen is more than enough to get the job done.

I'm not saying it's better than all other mage jobs, I'm saying that it can fill either roll (or both at a push) with just as much success for the party. It is far far from useless.

Edit: Woah! for the love of god TL;DR.

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Funny, everyone else is the bad sch yet you know nothing about sch stunning. This shows you have no knowledge of Legion and Provenance at the very least. Not to mention 19% cure potency is pathetic. I really can't take you seriously now after this post.

Because I should instantly have the best gear? Grow up... Building gear sets solo takes time. Talk to me again when you start over from scratch (I'm a fairly new player and spent more than half that time playing MNK). I never said all SCH are bad, I said if all they are providing is embrava then they are bad.
I know nothing about SCH stunning because I've never seen the need arise for it. I'm sure that when the need arises I'll learn all about it, but there are only so many hours in the day to play a video game and I'm not blessed with the ability to stop time unfortunatelly. However, after hearing about it, it seems that its just another tool in scholars already fantastic arsenal. But hey SCH is useless right?

Ps. 19% gets the job done and gives me 850-890 cures with Aurorastorm. I don't do VW and most of my gil goes towards my GF's relic weapon so what exactly do you suggest? I'm only missing 2 pieces and I'm not using arka because it's a waste of time for SCH with Chatoyant + Aurorastorm in the game.
Also, you don't need perfect gear to perform well (well you apparently do but I don't).

Are you also saying SCH is useless? Do you just provide Embrava then do nothing too?

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/...-here-meme.png

Math shows that chatoyant starts winning around ~42% (or was it 46%) cure potency. Obviously you use what you have, but there's a big difference between Abyssea and the rest of the game. No one is saying that SCH is as useless as RDM, but the things it supposedly does well like healing and nuking are irrelevant to current endgame (for the most part). Other than embrava and stun spam which any abyssea burned mule can do, SCH offers nothing. This is a problem with mages in general, and isnt specific to SCH. The things that make SCH unique though are underwhelming to say the least.

I think you make a fair point. I've been on hiatus so I am behind on some more recent end game stuff and I appreciate that SCH is useful in the sense that people want Embrava and that MV's recast time has been reduced and that gives people a reason to invite us, but I have found that what I like about the job is not necessarily useful, at least not anymore.

For me the top 3 things that should make a Scholar unique:
Weather
DoTs/HoTs
Stratagems

I think we're doing stratagems well, it's one thing I still love about playing this job because it allows you to shape your next spell in many aways, which I think adds more strategy to the job.

I think SE have made a step in the right direction for DoTs/HoTs but I don't think it's quite there yet, I mean Kaustra/Embrava are nice additions in that respect, but are only 2 hours. With the update to MV, using Helices isn't as frustrating and I think they're actually really useful spells to use in between other spells, so if you're nuking you're adding extra damage and if you're healing you're able to still do damage without using too much MP or generating too much hate. Their changes to regen are also a step in the right direction in that it can be a boost to our healing ability.

On the other hand, we've got the weather, which to be honest, I would like to see get a boost and to become a reason for people to bring a SCH along. Weather would make a nice boost to our own spells & stats but also other people. It has been a long time since anybody's cared about whether or not they've got a weather spell on them. Plus, I think having emphasis on adjusting the weather kind of adds to the idea that Scholar's are strategists - you adapt the weather based on the current situation.

It would be better in my eyes than treating a SCH like a BLM/WHM hybrid, at least, being a BLM/WHM hybrid wasn't what made me fall in love with the class.

I find this post hilarious.....SCHs gets invites to do shit all the damn time. Come back to your own post when your a RDM that don't get invites to do anything due to being 'not-so-useful'. Stop being a whiney little bitch about getting invites. SCH is doing just fine, and you know this.

Troll harder. Go bitch on the RDM forums.

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Originally Posted by VraeliaRDM

I find this post hilarious.....SCHs gets invites to do shit all the damn time. Come back to your own post when your a RDM that don't get invites to do anything due to being 'not-so-useful'. Stop being a whiney little bitch about getting invites. SCH is doing just fine, and you know this.

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Necrobump much? This horse was killed, buried, dug up, reanimated and beaten to death again.

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Originally Posted by Raksha

Math shows that chatoyant starts winning around ~42% (or was it 46%) cure potency. Obviously you use what you have, but there's a big difference between Abyssea and the rest of the game. No one is saying that SCH is as useless as RDM, but the things it supposedly does well like healing and nuking are irrelevant to current endgame (for the most part).

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Wouldn't SCH be a decent mage for new salvage? There's only 1 spot for healer/mage, and SCH can cure just fine and nuke to help with dmg in a 3~4 ppl pt. The disadvantage is that it needs SJ and JA unlock more than other mages though.

Yeah but it's the same problem as the rest of the game.

You don't need an actual SCH, you just need a dual box mule SCH.

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Originally Posted by Llana_Virren

Necrobump much? This horse was killed, buried, dug up, reanimated and beaten to death again.

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well more or less nerfed to death again when the embrava nerf hits! (but I will keep playing my sch!)

Not sure if anyone said this because I really only read the opening post: Welcome to the pain of RDM.

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Originally Posted by Severence

Not sure if anyone said this because I really only read the opening post: Welcome to the pain of RDM.

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That poor poor horse... Someone managed to put their twilight's set on him. How cruel.