BYE TANAKA!

Have to say that he does look a lot more healthy than during the Vana'Fest stream!

Could be due to the lighting I guess... in any case, I don't see why people need to bring their ill manners here. Whether or not one likes what he has or has not done, doesn't need to be heard (or read) here, methinks. :]

There's no denying he did lots of good, and should be granted the most well-mannered farewells.


Done.

Whether or not the blame for some bad decisions rests with him or his team, it's safe to say they put in a massive amount of work into trying to make FFXI the best it can be.

Take care Tanaka.

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Originally Posted by Zerich

It's perfectly ok to criticize, even under the circumstances. Just do it in another thread.

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I don't think you get to decide that. Also the title is "BYE TANAKA!" That could be taken more than one way.

U BUTTHURT MAD CASUALS, aren't gonna be saved with or wothout him.

The direction of the game and anything related to endgame is going to require dedication, team work and luck.

Neo Salvage and Dungeon crawling will cemet this standard in place.

If they add someone that doeswnt require team work, lil luck and dedication, the gear will not exceed that of Prov watcher/VW, let alone NI.

The days of getting the best gear via ABYSSEA level ease are dead, and gone. Forever.

This is endgame, with or woithout tanaka.

I look forward to seeing who you guys blame next, haha!

bye tanaka and thx for aspidochelone^^

Posting this again as the thread got derailed - play nice people!

Community team, is there any method by which we can write to Square-Enix and our thank you notes etc. be passed on to Tanaka-san?

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Originally Posted by Tunasushi

U BUTTHURT MAD CASUALS, aren't gonna be saved with or wothout him.

The direction of the game and anything related to endgame is going to require dedication, team work and luck.

Neo Salvage and Dungeon crawling will cemet this standard in place.

If they add someone that doeswnt require team work, lil luck and dedication, the gear will not exceed that of Prov watcher/VW, let alone NI.

The days of getting the best gear via ABYSSEA level ease are dead, and gone. Forever.

This is endgame, with or woithout tanaka.

I look forward to seeing who you guys blame next, haha!

bye tanaka and thx for aspidochelone^^

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I blame you. I hope Tanaka spends the first several years of his retirement going down a list of people who posted stupid stuff like what you just wrote, finding them, and slapping the snot out of them for bashing on his fans.

PS. finish leveling your whm, you "casual".


I wouldn't be surprised to see Tanaka working for another gaming company and / or doing some writing over the next few years. He could probably write some awesome stuff still.

Holy necrobump batman... on that note is it too soon to rehire him again? ;)

Tanaka....p-please...come home...we miss you

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Originally Posted by Anjou

Tanaka....p-please...come home...we miss you

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hn-enjcgV1o

EDIT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVLfzYkM6Lo

Please yes. I want him back so bad. So so bad.

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Originally Posted by Anjou

Tanaka....p-please...come home...we miss you

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no please no

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Originally Posted by Damane

no please no

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once he left things became broken because of no balance

Sad to say that I'd actually take Tanaka style FFXI back in a heart beat at this point. The model we're currently heading towards simply doesn't work with the skeleton crew we have updating FFXI.

Have we seriously reached the "drunk dialing" phase, at long last?

Tanaka had a shitty sense of balance too, just in different ways. Neither this nor how it was before is really how this game should be, nothing should take stupid amounts of time like Mythics, or be as annoying as some of the luck based events which were implemented by him such as NNI or VW. He did better in some respects, but that doesn't mean we should go back to it, we should get something better than both.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

Tanaka had a shitty sense of balance too, just in different ways. Neither this nor how it was before is really how this game should be, nothing should take stupid amounts of time like Mythics, or be as annoying as some of the luck based events which were implemented by him such as NNI or VW. He did better in some respects, but that doesn't mean we should go back to it, we should get something better than both.

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And that's the right perspective to take. Luck based sucked hard. VW NNI were and are terrible events. The jobs were really out of balance. Now the jobs are even more out of balance. The content, even just exploring the new zones is a drag. Instead of building an expansion around 99 they built it around Delve and ilvl119.

We've lost the intangible spirit that made FFXI FFXI somewhere between VW and now.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

Tanaka had a shitty sense of balance too, just in different ways. Neither this nor how it was before is really how this game should be, nothing should take stupid amounts of time like Mythics, or be as annoying as some of the luck based events which were implemented by him such as NNI or VW. He did better in some respects, but that doesn't mean we should go back to it, we should get something better than both.

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sure some of his things was annoying but it kept people playing way longer. now it just a ghost town because everyone got bored with the only 2 easy events and cap out on almost everything, feels like we really just beat the game. they just pretty much throwing easy to get over power gear without even trying much.:(

I hope Tanaka never leads any other team for gaming purposes.

Things may be going to shit but if you want Tanaka back on the job, you're drinking something awfully strong.

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Originally Posted by saevel

Don't worry, they'll clean it all up just fine once you've vacated the office. May take them awhile to fix things, but it'll be done eventually.

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Nope, you were wrong, as a matter of fact they just about destroyed the game

They were cleaning it up till SoA happened. Before SoA things were fine, actually, cut out everything SoA related, or simply balance it, and the game would be doing fine. They made some of the other events like Salvage or Meebles better, they made fun side events like Monstrosity, they added inventory, broke some gear limitations, I mean, had SoA not had the horrible gear it does and changed the game's design, I think the game would be doing better now than when that post was made. The problem was, SoA changed everything, and made it crash.

iLevel for the loss...

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

They were cleaning it up till SoA happened. Before SoA things were fine, actually, cut out everything SoA related, or simply balance it, and the game would be doing fine. They made some of the other events like Salvage or Meebles better, they made fun side events like Monstrosity, they added inventory, broke some gear limitations, I mean, had SoA not had the horrible gear it does and changed the game's design, I think the game would be doing better now than when that post was made. The problem was, SoA changed everything, and made it crash.

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SoA is several different sections so gotta separate them out. Skirmish sucks, it's just a voidwatch 2.0 loot system. Reives are hit / miss depending on the time of day and where your at. Lots of missions and quests to do that actually provide rewards. Delve loot system is amazing, the point buy + upgrade is definitely one of the best idea's SE every created.

What most of you are crying about is the iLevel system that rendered your RME's worthless. Your poured a ton of your free time into making what you thought would be the ultimate gear for your jobs only to have that investment wiped out and someone who didn't put near that much effort jumping ahead of you. That's what most of this hate is really about, not SoA but the obsolescence of RME's and the player reordering it caused. Mechanically the game is more balanced now then it was three years ago, and definitely more balanced then two years ago. The biggest problem is that MNK is a little overpowered due to SE's chosen battle mechanics (high physical / magical damage along with high HP and survivability). Second biggest problem is the delve MB's are essentially stun or die due to overpowered offensive moves, that's par for the course for SE though.

Otherwise I can't see any actual balance issues present in the game that weren't already present long before SoA. Hell SoA actually brought back jobs that had previously been near extinct, RDM and RNG are actually useful.

That's what I mean though, besides the gear SoA brought with it, everything has gotten better, but the fact it brought that gear and the item levels makes it seem like its gotten worse. Remove that one simple change and you have a better FFXI than when you made your original post, but outdating nearly everything in the game with the expansion was the change that soured the whole thing.

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Originally Posted by saevel

SoA is several different sections so gotta separate them out. Skirmish sucks, it's just a voidwatch 2.0 loot system. Reives are hit / miss depending on the time of day and where your at. Lots of missions and quests to do that actually provide rewards. Delve loot system is amazing, the point buy + upgrade is definitely one of the best idea's SE every created.

What most of you are crying about is the iLevel system that rendered your RME's worthless. Your poured a ton of your free time into making what you thought would be the ultimate gear for your jobs only to have that investment wiped out and someone who didn't put near that much effort jumping ahead of you. That's what most of this hate is really about, not SoA but the obsolescence of RME's and the player reordering it caused. Mechanically the game is more balanced now then it was three years ago, and definitely more balanced then two years ago. The biggest problem is that MNK is a little overpowered due to SE's chosen battle mechanics (high physical / magical damage along with high HP and survivability). Second biggest problem is the delve MB's are essentially stun or die due to overpowered offensive moves, that's par for the course for SE though.

Otherwise I can't see any actual balance issues present in the game that weren't already present long before SoA. Hell SoA actually brought back jobs that had previously been near extinct, RDM and RNG are actually useful.

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Couldn't agree more, i'm sick of these R/M/E ppl crying. Nobody forced them to waste their lives doing that and they demand to have that old content to be always the top gear of the game.

If you spent 6 months of your life on a project only to have it taken away from you or rendered worthless, I am sure you would be 'crying' about it as well. Most people who made RMEs expected them to be around, especially after being upgraded 24 levels past their original forms in the case of R/Ms. Relics were the top weapons from the time they were introduced till Abyssea, they were then upgraded to keep up with weapons of the time, and were some of the best at 99, there was little reason for that to change when it worked, and especially when it was a goal many people still strived for. Now that is gone, and we see what good short term goals have brought us. I am not saying Relics held the game together, but they were a long term goal, and those goals are what did help hold it together, now, we do everything fast, get done, and have nothing to do, in my opinion.

I don't have either a relic or a mythic, but I would sure love an Annihilator for my Rng, and the now totally unreachable Burtgang for my PLD, but before I go jumping through the hoops of building any R/M/E, I want to see what happens in November with regards to the R/M/E fixes.

Those of you that think Relics should just remain relics from the past, you are so wrong. When someone spends that much time and hard work on any single project, ingame or irl, there reward should be a lasting one. R/M/Es were real accomplishments that spanned a period of years in some cases, and should not have been so carelessly tossed aside by game developers in the first place. Took me a total of 6 hours from KI to fully upgraded Speleogen bow, and it's kind of shameful that it's so OP over the relic

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

If you spent 6 months of your life on a project only to have it taken away from you or rendered worthless, I am sure you would be 'crying' about it as well. Most people who made RMEs expected them to be around, especially after being upgraded 24 levels past their original forms in the case of R/Ms. Relics were the top weapons from the time they were introduced till Abyssea, they were then upgraded to keep up with weapons of the time, and were some of the best at 99, there was little reason for that to change when it worked, and especially when it was a goal many people still strived for. Now that is gone, and we see what good short term goals have brought us. I am not saying Relics held the game together, but they were a long term goal, and those goals are what did help hold it together, now, we do everything fast, get done, and have nothing to do, in my opinion.

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If the project of you life is in a game then perhaps SE was doing you a favor for making it worthless so you could rethink your life. But you won't do it. Like i said, nobody forced you to waste 5 months of your life for that.

It is pretty stupid to ask for an online game that should always be changing and evolving to be stagnant forever in terms of the most important item in a RPG, the weapon. But, of course, for people that puts their life projects into a game, that really must hurt.

No more checks to your naked character in town must really affect your ego.

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Originally Posted by Spectreman

Couldn't agree more, i'm sick of these R/M/E ppl crying. Nobody forced them to waste their lives doing that and they demand to have that old content to be always the top gear of the game.

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In their defense I'll say that in many cases if you didn't have an R/M/E there were no truly universally acceptable alternatives. You'd either be using a severely underpowered weapon with no aftermath or you'd be missing a game-breaking WS. It was essentially bring an R/M/E or don't come at all.

The real mistake SE made was making Empys just easy enough to make that the higher-end of the player base expected everyone to be able to get one in short order. They also made the alternatives either too weak or too hard/expensive to make in comparison.

They then repeated this mistake with delve weapons. They were too easy to get for the high-end players and too hard to get for those on the low-end.

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Originally Posted by Spectreman

Couldn't agree more, i'm sick of these R/M/E ppl crying. Nobody forced them to waste their lives doing that and they demand to have that old content to be always the top gear of the game.

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I'm sick of the people crying about the people who are "crying", i'm also sick of the reference that people who care about their gear dont have lives, and you obviously have, although i dont know you. Its just an assumption and irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by Spectreman

If the project of you life is in a game then perhaps SE was doing you a favor for making it worthless so you could rethink your life. But you won't do it. Like i said, nobody forced you to waste 5 months of your life for that.

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Did I say this was my lifes work? No, it was my ingame lifes work. I have a life and GF outside of this game which obviously rank much higher in priority than my Excalibur ever did. Just because it is only an ingame item or the fact I have a life outside of it does not make the fact it was outdated in the way it was any better. I spent about 6 months of doing Dynamis 3~4 times a week and spending any gil I made from Blinkers or VW on it. For what reason is it that my project I made in my spare time should be tossed aside in such a way?

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It is pretty stupid to ask for an online game that should always be changing and evolving to be stagnant forever in terms of the most important item in a RPG, the weapon. But, of course, for people that puts their life projects into a game, that really must hurt.

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Its equally stupid to allow a weapon that takes months to build to fall to the side in the wake of other gear which takes significantly less time, even though the developers do not change the requirements to obtain it. By your incredibly condescending tone in this argument one can only assume you have no RME, and that it drives your misguided view on the subject.

Keeping them the strongest weapons made them a reward for a large amount of effort people put in, a reward people could count on to be the top and be worth the effort, it worked. It also kept long term goals in the game which were always worth the effort, how many others held that kind of weight? I could go out and get anything else in the game, but I would know it has a high likelihood of being outdated, which could drive me away from it. But with the past of RMEs, I would have no reason to think that, I could take on the long term goal knowing I will have a reward at the end which stays with me forever.

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No more checks to your naked character in town must really affect your ego.

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If you really think I spent 6 months making my Excalibur so I could get checks or compliments, your incompetent.

I made Excalibur primarily for 2 reasons.

1. I have always been a RDM who melees and it is my main, as such, the first Relic and the first Empyrean I ever made were swords. I knew many people on Phoenix who did things like VW and because they knew I was a good RDM, they let me come, and I actually did good enough DMG on everything up to T4 that I was a viable DD. Excalibur only boosted that DD power more.

2. I wanted Excalibur as a sign of my determination on RDM to improve, and my dedication to that job rather than others. Many people now days question if anyone even really has a main job anymore, my way of showing my RDM was and is my main job was getting the best sword in the game for it. My PLD has no Aegis/Ochain, my BLU can not use Excalibur, I made it for RDM unquestionably, and proudly said that it was for RDM.



I did not make my Excalibur so I could afk and have others look at me in awe. I made it for other reasons, if you don't approve of them, oh well. All of this doesn't give you the right to act like you know me or anyone else who does when your talking about us all as though we are all the same jackass who just wants to flaunt their fortune or has no life and plays nothing but this.

Perhaps, if I was a person with 15 RMEs sitting in my inventory, and I constantly bragged about how my opinion mattered more than yours because I had them, you could say that, and it might be true. But that isn't the case, I own 2 RMEs, I probably will only ever own 3, and that's if I stay long enough to finish my RDM Mythic I am working on right now, my 3rd and final weapon.

Ok this is an MMORPG not a console RPG, so expecting any accomplishment to mean something long term is both ignorant and stupid.

That being said, Tanaka did create a patter of constant side-grades while leaving the ultimate weapons, well ultimate. The entire player base came to expect that as par for the course and when new leadership changed that, well you have the hate. Your anger isn't that they changed it (expecting no change in an online RPG is stupid), it's that SE had you expecting one thing while doing another. Thing is, we've gone through this exact set of issues before, during Abyssea. When SE released the crour sets and the +2 armor it obsoleted a lot of old gear. Futher then emp weapons beat out many of the previous super weapons (anyone remember Hagun) including relics. There were riots as relic holders moaned that Empy's were too easy and too powerful, it made many relics obsolete (not that many where that powerful to begin with).

Anyhow be glad Tanaka is gone, otherwise Delve would be 6,000 plasm for beating all six NM's with weapons costing 500,000 plasm. Or better yet individual randomized loot from each MB kill with only one slot for an item and the rest being logs and ores. Change is needed for MMO's to continue, especially in a game like FFXI where you can gear / level all jobs on one character.

Except it wasn't needed in the case of weapons, the game did just fine with RMEs being on top at all times, we had plenty of gear to use which we constantly went out and got to improve our characters, but RMEs were still the top, and there were never issues. Expecting things never change is stupid, and like I said before, its equally stupid to have things that take months to build yet are not even half as strong as other weapons in the game. Relics & Mythics lived for a long time at 75 till, 90 came along, and RMEs as a whole lived from Abyssea till the day before SoA hit, there was no reason to expect that to change. FFXI is not every MMO, it was different, the fact they are moving to change it to be like every other game is bad, not good, and it was yes, unexpected.

As long as it doesn't turn things into "REM" only, I don't care what they do.

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Originally Posted by Spectreman

If the project of you life is in a game then perhaps SE was doing you a favor for making it worthless so you could rethink your life. But you won't do it. Like i said, nobody forced you to waste 5 months of your life for that.

It is pretty stupid to ask for an online game that should always be changing and evolving to be stagnant forever in terms of the most important item in a RPG, the weapon. But, of course, for people that puts their life projects into a game, that really must hurt.

No more checks to your naked character in town must really affect your ego.

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The problem with your way of thinking Spectre, is that you're too hurtful in what you say. Why would anyone on God's green earth would ever take -you- seriously? You only make yourself seem more and more ignorant by saying people have no lives, aren't you playing the same game? But oh wait that's right, you haven't tried committing to anything so you won't know what it's like to have an accomplishment stomped into dust right in front of your eyes. These people took time, effort, and gil to make their weapons, and whether it was for e-peen or to just do the challenge, that's what gaming is all about. It's to give you a sense of accomplishment, it's the reason we as a whole collective of players continue to play this game. If it wasn't a challenge (A grindy challenge, but a challenge nonetheless) then you know what'd happen?




FFXI will die. What will you do with yourself then?

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Originally Posted by Twille

As long as it doesn't turn things into "REM" only, I don't care what they do.

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That's the thing. The only way to make these people happy is to make REM the absolute best which in turn makes them required by groups looking for members. The MB's in this game are ridiculously hard, stat wise, compared to most other MMO's. Other games compensate for that by creating battlefield mechanics, things moving or some form of dynamic interaction required to beat the Big Bad Evil. FFXI lacks that so instead just jacks the BBE's stats up so high that the players require near best gear to have any chance of getting the near best gear. It becomes a catch 22, you can't fight Tojil on MNK unless you have Oatixers, ect. You see this mentality with DD's more then anything because of how accuracy works in this game. The formula is so linear that either your smacking the NM around easily or your whiffing, very little room for the middle anymore.

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Except it wasn't needed in the case of weapons, the game did just fine with RMEs being on top at all times, we had plenty of gear to use which we constantly went out and got to improve our characters, but RMEs were still the top, and there were never issues.

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Is in direct contradiction to

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Expecting things never change is stupid, and like I said before, its equally stupid to have things that take months to build yet are not even half as strong as other weapons in the game.

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That's cognitive dissonance for you.

Now we can all agree that the requirements for RME's were entirely too high anyway. I'm a firm believer that no piece of gear, in any game, should require that much time to be used. This is because in order for a MMO to continue it needs to grow and locking that much time into a single piece that, by definition, must eventually be outclassed is stupid. Further players requiring that other players have something that requires that level of time is equally stupid. In essence RME's should never have existed in the form they did. SE is currently trying to remedy that design flaw by introducing easily acquirable alternatives. Of course they didn't fully understand the community's emotional attachment to the digital product of their wasted hours. RME's will be outdated, it's an eventuality and it must happen.

What makes Saeval posts similar to Beethoven's 5th? Highlight for answer: They both have a lot of dums!


It's not impossible to make RMEs near-equivalent to the present "best weapons" under optimal buff conditions. SE has access to the damage equations and server logs that could be analyzed to tell them player reaction times, typical TP overages, etc. They have all the information that they need to make the damage output of different weapons mathematically identical for the average player. Perhaps which weapon players should use will vary based on their skill level, but RMEs could be left as a valid option for everyone under the right conditions.


It is also not impossible to make a more complicated state of play where other high-end, current gear is required to make RMEs usable. Shouting for RMEs in this situation would be futile and RME holders could not avoid new content because that would make their RME useless. Doing something like adding base weapon damage to armor would fulfill this condition. Any time RMEs too far ahead with an ideal set (say 5% better than the common alternative), SE could just release a new common alternative and match them.




Considering the huge blowback that SE got regarding RMEs and the ensuing erosion of the FFXI community, I think they'd have to be pretty dumb to continue down the vertical progression path. I'm not saying they're smarter than that, but it's very obviously not the right choice for FFXI.

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Originally Posted by saevel

Ok this is an MMORPG not a console RPG, so expecting any accomplishment to mean something long term is both ignorant and stupid.

That being said, Tanaka did create a patter of constant side-grades while leaving the ultimate weapons, well ultimate. The entire player base came to expect that as par for the course and when new leadership changed that, well you have the hate. Your anger isn't that they changed it (expecting no change in an online RPG is stupid), it's that SE had you expecting one thing while doing another. Thing is, we've gone through this exact set of issues before, during Abyssea. When SE released the crour sets and the +2 armor it obsoleted a lot of old gear. Futher then emp weapons beat out many of the previous super weapons (anyone remember Hagun) including relics. There were riots as relic holders moaned that Empy's were too easy and too powerful, it made many relics obsolete (not that many where that powerful to begin with).

Anyhow be glad Tanaka is gone, otherwise Delve would be 6,000 plasm for beating all six NM's with weapons costing 500,000 plasm. Or better yet individual randomized loot from each MB kill with only one slot for an item and the rest being logs and ores. Change is needed for MMO's to continue, especially in a game like FFXI where you can gear / level all jobs on one character.

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This x 10000. I understand these guys effort and tears but honestly, you can't ask in a MMORPG for an item to be always the best in slot. That's just ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Spectreman

This x 10000. I understand these guys effort and tears but honestly, you can't ask in a MMORPG for an item to be always the best in slot. That's just ridiculous.

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How is it ridiculous if there's upgrades to it? A lot of old technology irl is upgraded to be able to be compared to the new technology we have today. For instance they could have just used a completely different design, but the F-35 uses the main look of the F-22, but slightly upgraded.

The fact is: Upgrades aren't hurting anyone, why are you so dedicated to your stance that these kinds of things should just be tossed? It's Excalibur, one of the most famous swords in folklore and especially FF, it and its other relic weapons deserve to be on that podium, otherwise they do not deserve their titles.