Suggestion: Remove Abyssea Time restrictions

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Originally Posted by Carala

If old outdated content is an acceptable solution to you, than I'm not sure what to say. Most of the stuff I've done... a lot of times. Abyssea is however freshly new to me. Some stuff from ToAU & WoG are new to me, but they aren't to many who are still around, and thus they simply don't do this content. If I could solo everything in that content, I'd rather just go play a single player game.

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Sorry to break this to you, but Abyssea is old, outdated content.

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Originally Posted by Zerich

You're either a completely oblivious new player who has never done a spit of endgame for FFXI, or you are a dedicated troll. Whichever it is, I recommend quitting.

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Reading through the last few pages of this thread, it seems you're almost right:

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Originally Posted by Carala

I was not able to have my character restored (account cancelled in 2004). When I decided to play again in January, I had to start from scratch.

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@Carala - when you haven't played in over 7 years and still whine about all the "outdated" content and things you don't want to do, I do wonder why you came back in the first place. There's "outdated" content you never even tried because it wasn't around when you quit the first time.

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Originally Posted by Carala

That's just fucking retarded. Most peopl who have an abundance of stones that "will never run out" are people who have quit for a length of time and renewed their subscription.

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Well that's just a load of bs. The only break I ever took from this game was when the earthquake hit Japan a year ago. I have 703 traverser stones with npc and 5 on me. And I know a lot of people - that, just like me, haven't quit or been on breaks - with more stones than me.


Edit: Just noticed this:

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Originally Posted by Carala

4) Magian Trials - I refuse to do these out of principle that you do the same thing and kill the same NM's 100's and 100's of times, amongst gambling drops with greedy players (guild friends or not). Farming these weapons are a pathetic waste of time spent in this game.

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Sounds to me like you don't have any friends in this game? Oh and if bettering one (or more) jobs by getting the best (or one of the best) weapons for it, is a waste of time in your eyes, then I REALLY question why you play. Why are you wanting unlimited access to Abyssea then? What do you do in there? Exp? Surely you can get TEs when exping?

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Originally Posted by Carala

5) Forced NM's. Because camping in the same position for hours & hours for items that the NM may drop, that I don't need is fun? So is logging in every 10 hours to see if it's spawned, right?

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That would be timed spawn NMs, not forced. And there are barely any left of those in this game, in case you didn't notice. At least with any worthwhile drops.

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Originally Posted by Carala

6) Crafting - ...... really? Anyone would even mention crafting as a suggestion? Huge waste of time, it's boring, farming items to craft things is boring given how out of touch the dev team is with the skill up system in this game, and I don't even need the miniscule amount of gil it'd make me.

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Ever heard of synergy? Any idea what kind of gil you can make with capped synergy and the right subcrafts?


Ow my head -.-

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Originally Posted by Kristal

You deliberately created a non-existent situation with the intent to attack it as if it was the real thing. Classic strawman argument and undefendable because there is no position to defend.

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Your strawman argument is a strawman argument. LOL @ attacking his technique instead of addressing the argument itself which was: that adding things that are in no way shape or form fun just so that people waste time is bad.

He's also correct in that if you are arguing that the time limit is needed then you are also by extension arguing that you have difficulty getting time. Which is hilarious being as you clearly think you are great.

The only truth behind all this discussion... a NEW character need to wait sometime before effectively farm things into abyssea... while other people can do it all the time... I have a 27 days character and I can't farm +1/+2 w/o help from my friends with trigger + TE, If you're hardcore w/o hardcore friends you're completly lost; having a new character into the game "NOW".

Increase the limit to 240 won't solve much, but we can farm time into exp PT. (helpfull).
I'd suggest to give a new abyssea player "daily quest" to get traveler stones.

Removal of Abyssea Time Restriction will become Empyrean Weapon VERY EASY to obtain.

As it's now I have precious 7 traveler stones!!! I can't do nothing atm :) Oh shit I need to farm feet (Atthowa Chasm) hahahaha

Sorry English isn't my native language. I tried my best.

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Originally Posted by Waldrich

The only truth behind all this discussion... a NEW character need to wait sometime before effectively farm things into abyssea... while other people can do it all the time... I have a 27 days character and I can't farm +1/+2 w/o help from my friends with trigger + TE, If you're hardcore w/o hardcore friends you're completly lost; having a new character into the game "NOW".

Increase the limit to 240 won't solve much, but we can farm time into exp PT. (helpfull).
I'd suggest to give a new abyssea player "daily quest" to get traveler stones.

Removal of Abyssea Time Restriction will become Empyrean Weapon VERY EASY to obtain.

As it's now I have precious 7 traveler stones!!! I can't do nothing atm :) Oh shit I need to farm feet (Atthowa Chasm) hahahaha

Sorry English isn't my native language. I tried my best.

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But, as mentioned earlier, there is soooo much more a new player can do OTHER than abyssea. Things like unlocking subjobs, leveling said subjobs, earning home nation's (and optionally other nations') rank, completing quests to raise fame, getting Chocobo License, Airship Pass, Sea Access, Sky Access, TAU Access, farming Artifact Armor, Limit Breaks, completeing quests for quested only spells/equipment/weaponskills, skilling up, Campaign Battles to increase WotG rank, getting the WotG maps (quested), Dynamis and Limbus (and gear from said zones, which require repeated participation to acquire), Nyzul Isle, Assaults, Salvage, Einherjar....omg the list goes on even longer.

All the while.....because you aren't spending any time in Abyssea while working on all this other content, your base stones are building in the background. Then, when you get a nice linkshell you are comfortable with and can then gather a few friends to help you find your abysites, you will get one that will multiply your stone stock immediately (Celerity Abyssites are retroactive--it recalculates the time passed since you started Abyssea and you gain the extra stones you would have aquired at the faster rate, so if it's been one month or so since you started abyssea, for each Celerity you get, you can pick up to ~18 free stones instantly).

All you have to do is just unlock Abyssea as soon as you can, then play the game somewhere other than in Abyssea for a while and then go get your Abyssites of Celerity--the first two of which are basically purchased. One is quested by simply trading an item you can buy off the AH (which you get back and can re-sell it back on the AH), the other is purchased for 9000 cruor. So.....after farting around for a month or so after unlocking Abyssea, then spending a spot of gil on the AH, and joining ONE decent Abyssea party for farm a spot of Cruor.....you can get up to a FREE 36 stones, depending on just how much time has passed. At this point, you get 2 stones every 24 hours. After that, you can farm the third Celerity off the Tonberries (fairly easy to do...some jobs could solo these early on) to get another ~18 free stones. This will finally cap you at getting a stone every 8 hours.

Stone stock problem virtually fixed for a new player....work smarter, not harder.

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Originally Posted by Shadowsong

May I ask why you play this game?
No one here asked you to, so no one here wants to hear you whine about it.
(1) I find people to do Limbus with me whenever I want to, do you have any friends?
(2) You obviously have no clue about even recent updates to the game if you are comparing Neo-Dynamis to Dynamis you grinded in 2003.
(3) LOL soloing assault
(4) Magian trials take less time, less effort, less knowledge, and less aggrivation than 90% of content at any period of time in the game, seriously, do you even play this game or are you trolling from another forum?
(5) I can't even form the words to debunk this one, #mymindisfulloffuck
(6) Crafting... meh

Ok, so you hate old content for stupid reasons, thats fine. Why don't you do Walk of Echoes, VoidWatch, NeoNyzul, or Legion like the rest of the goddamned player base?

edit: Jesus Christ you can't even use the correct game terminology (lolguild). I call BS on this guy having played before

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Jesus Christ! I choose not to use "correct" game terminology. Linkshell reads dumb as fuck, sort of.. like you. Just because this game out of the many many more MMO's have come before & after it don't use anything but "guild", as that's what they really are, it's been my choice to use the proper name for calling a Linkshell, what it really is. I'm not sorry at all that I'm purposely not politically correct enough for you. Get over yourself.

Despite the annoyances of this game, it's still pretty fun and if I'm having fun guess what? I play it. I don't owe you or anyone any reasons of why I choose to play.

And no one here asked for you to chime in with your opinion, about anything. On any thread, but yet you're all over them like a whore to cock.

1) I have a few.. LINKSHELLS I'm in, not one single person in any of them do this content. Virtually all of them are veteran players and they spend most of their time dicking around in abyssea. See bottom of post.
2) I admit, I haven't gone to do any dynamis since I returned but just looking at the page listed updates to it.... You obviously have no clue what dynamis was like before CoP, if you're considering that drastically different.
3) LOL! Read the post following, common knowledge that you just don't go do some of this stuff solo. Even more common knowledge that you don't just have a group of people wanting to do it at a moment's notice, much less in a reasonable time frame upon logging in.
4) Let's dissect this just a little: You do a quest that requires killing some lowbie timed / lottery NM a handful of times. You have to essentially this same routine 2-4 times. Others involve scoring xxx killing blows / weapon skills used on xxx mob in xxx weather. Then eventually you get to killing the same abyssea zone bosses / stronger NM's, over and over and over and over and over again for 50 of their items. Sounds (fun) and (interest)ing. That's sarcasm by the way.

In no way do I think emp weapons should be served on a platter, but let's face it. Doing essentially the same thing about 9 times for a single item isn't challenging. It's certainly not fun. If anyone finds that fun, I have to think they're out of their mind. But to each their own.
5) This one is as full of fail as your other retorts.
6) We agree. Meh.

Refer back to #3 for VW, Nyzul, etc. Occasionally there's a shout in Jeuno for some VW group. Never anything else. It's a bit on the impossible side to do any of this when 1) Everyone you know & care to actually play with happen to live 4 hours ahead. So unless I want the opportunity to do some of these things with people who aren't tools, I'd either have to bail on my friends and/or be like you - quit my job so I can play at opportune hours.

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Originally Posted by Kristal

You deliberately created a non-existent situation with the intent to attack it as if it was the real thing. Classic strawman argument and undefendable because there is no position to defend.

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That is not a strawman argument, it's an analogy. A strawman argument would be if the situation I created was different to the actual situation and only tried to fool people into thinking it compares. My analogy was applying your reasoning to a similar situation which better exemplified the flawed reasoning your argument presented. While the situation does not compare fully, it is indeed similar and was closer to a reductio ad absurdum than a strawman argument. Also, for a strawman argument I would have to actually attack the situation I created, but I didn't. I attacked the original situation (which was the time restriction in Abyssea) and presented my analogy at the very end of my post to sum up how ridiculous the argument of the opposing party looks to me.

^
Ill just let that post do all the talking for me

It's cute that you feel anything Arcon just wrote works for you. Back to grade school: "I'm right, you're wrong, I win."

Obvious troll is obvious. I just found someone new to avoid on Odin. :)

All of the people who are new to abyssea should either a) look for or b) start EXP alliances in the zones they are interested in farming. It's really simple. Get to 300-400 minutes and farm away. You kids who are new definitely need the exp/merits, so there's no point in arguing that this sucks. This is what many of us did when Abyssea first came out in order to have time to farm seals and items. We had nothing handed to us like you guys are asking for.

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Originally Posted by Sfchakan

Obvious troll is obvious. I just found someone new to avoid on Odin. :)

All of the people who are new to abyssea should either a) look for or b) start EXP alliances in the zones they are interested in farming. It's really simple. Get to 300-400 minutes and farm away. You kids who are new definitely need the exp/merits, so there's no point in arguing that this sucks. This is what many of us did when Abyssea first came out in order to have time to farm seals and items. We had nothing handed to us like you guys are asking for.

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Fantastic & likewise.

While I appreciate the less asshole-like post, there are problem areas. Grauberg, Konschtat, Vunkerl, Misareaux (sometimes), Tahrongi, Attohwa. I've never encountered people exp'ing in these zones. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I just haven't ever seen it. I need the merits & exp for what exactly? Jobs that I will never take to level 2? Merits on jobs & general tabs have been maxed for a while that I cared enough to level up. So save for simply just farming TE, which is easy in your general exp zones, getting people together for the ones I listed above to farm enough TE at an efficient rate to do actually do stuff in those zones and not waste traverser stones, on the other hand is not.

I like how no one is actually addressing the whole point of the thread. It's more of the same replies.

Game
Design
Flaw

You seriously need to stop white knighting this system / SE. It's obvious how much stock you put into time spent and time you pour down the drain into your character. I know it grows epeen. Same exact people that can't handle a game that has more than pve content.

Point is no one should have to find other things to do against the content that they actually want to do. You're seriously fooling yourself if you don't think there are a lot of players who feel the same way. I'm not sure why any of you feel so threatened by the idea of removing the time restriction. All the arguments against it are just rofl and dodge any valid point that has been made.

Wow, a lot of mad going on here.

Ok so - if you don't need to exp or merit any jobs, and you don't want to make empyrean weapon(s), wtf do you do in Abyssea that keeps eating all your traverser stones?

Oh and for the record, we were all in your shoes at some point. Hell, the majority of us we even had to actually take the time and traverser stones to figure out how Abyssea actually worked, at least you don't have to do that.

Insulting the thousands of players that ever made an empyrean weapon by saying it's a waste of time doesn't exactly help your case either.

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Originally Posted by Tamoa

Wow, a lot of mad going on here.

Ok so - if you don't need to exp or merit any jobs, and you don't want to make empyrean weapon(s), wtf do you do in Abyssea that keeps eating all your traverser stones?

Oh and for the record, we were all in your shoes at some point. Hell, the majority of us we even had to actually take the time and traverser stones to figure out how Abyssea actually worked, at least you don't have to do that.

Insulting the thousands of players that ever made an empyrean weapon by saying it's a waste of time doesn't exactly help your case either.

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A lot of people here would have said the same exact thing about the Grand Marshal grind in vanilla WoW, that it was a waste of time. When I did it, it sure didn't seem like it. Looking back, I realize differently it was a huge waste of time (not in terms of game time, in terms of the actual time I gave away from my life to put into that task). There however is two huge differences, that was actually fun and it required actually being good if you didn't want to have to grind honor 10+ hours a day, everyday for 4 months.

You can't even begin to compare the world of difference that a scripted fight vs a thinking, breathing human on the other side of a screen makes when it comes to keeping gameplay fresh while in the process of upgrading ones character. I'm not proposing people get empyreans from pvp. Ballista was fail.

I might be inclined to feel somewhat differently if the method of obtaining these items was at least amusing, but leave it to be unoriginal in execution and not even fun and fully centered on time spent rather than effort expended. The two are not the same. If thousands of players are insulted about a comment like that, they'll just have to get over it. That's on them, not me.

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Originally Posted by Carala

While I appreciate the less asshole-like post, there are problem areas. Grauberg, Konschtat, Vunkerl, Misareaux (sometimes), Tahrongi, Attohwa. I've never encountered people exp'ing in these zones. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I just haven't ever seen it. I need the merits & exp for what exactly? Jobs that I will never take to level 2? Merits on jobs & general tabs have been maxed for a while that I cared enough to level up. So save for simply just farming TE, which is easy in your general exp zones, getting people together for the ones I listed above to farm enough TE at an efficient rate to do actually do stuff in those zones and not waste traverser stones, on the other hand is not.

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That's because abyssea has fallen into the same pattern the rest of the game has: some zones are easier to farm than others. It's largely why everyone is either killing worms in La Theine or birds in Miseraux or Bluffaloes/Observers in Uleguerand. Grauberg is a long walk unless you already got all confluxes, and the only worthwhile mobs you can farm are crabs, AKA the mob most people who have played this game are already sick of. The other zones werent even as popular when Abyssea launched, but I used to see doll-killing parties in Altepa a lot. FFXI is very unfortunately subject to random trends that form.

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Point is no one should have to find other things to do against the content that they actually want to do. You're seriously fooling yourself if you don't think there are a lot of players who feel the same way. I'm not sure why any of you feel so threatened by the idea of removing the time restriction. All the arguments against it are just rofl and dodge any valid point that has been made.

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Because we all know that if the devs under Tanaka Hiromichi touch abyssea, it's going to be to nerf it in some way in the name of "Balance". As I love Abyssea, I don't want that guy anywhere near the batch of content I can actually do in a way I can actually enjoy. RDM is currently "useless" in the "relevant" content (AKA voidwatch), and even if it wasn't I wouldn't be able to draw my sword against any of those mobs. At least Abyssea gives me that opportunity.

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I might be inclined to feel somewhat differently if the method of obtaining these items was at least amusing, but leave it to be unoriginal in execution and not even fun and fully centered on time spent rather than effort expended. The two are not the same.

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And yet it's still several echelons above anything else that has been done in this game. At least you can plan things and expect to get X within a certain timeframe. By comparison, I could camp an NM for 8 or 9 days in a row and get nothing for my troubles. Sure, certain NM pop times may make things a little wonky (which I agree is something they got wrong. The weapon trials should have really used timed spawns instead of lottery pop NMs), but it's still way better than counting on the RNG gods favoring you to get the drop or loot you're looking for.

Since you seem to have played WoW, I hope that you can see the difference between the magian trials and the alternatives would be akin the difference between relying on RNG for rare trinkets/librams/totems/relics and grinding justice/valor points to get them.

I'm still saying lol sad 2 days later. hahaha. Give up already, only the noobs be struggling with abyssea still. And yes, noob does mean "newer" or "less intelligent", doesn't mean your a bad player, it just means you have a lot to learn, and you have to learn that abyssea has, and always will be abused, and needs no changes, and 98% of the player base would agree.

So, despite the trolls that got what they wanted from Abyssea, don't even need that anymore after having their LS roll this for them and yet tell others to go the harder way is a must, I would really like SE to take a look at this matter in the future.

You changed CoP, you changed Dynamis, even changed the 95 cap to adjust the difficulty with the lack of players for old content. Its natural to adjust Abyssea now to this.

Ignore the stupid posts from players who wants nothing but to make others game experience as miserable as possible since their RL are horrible and they play games to get revenge on what they can't face in Real Life, against their bosses, parents or girls that reject them each day. These players don't contribute for your game to prosper and keep attractive to newer players that are required to keep your funds going. They just complain about everything, even ideas that do not even touch their characters, just to be a pest like they like to be.


So Square, if you are reading this topic its a good suggestion to get newer players into this part of the game without the help that the bitter veterans (those that want new players to suffer and quit) had and forgot they had 17 ppl to help them with everything.

You recognized adjustments were needed for newer players to get them into older events, now its time to get Abyssea into this. The message was sent. I would like a Dev or Moderator to read the positive criticism (even those who suggested something a bit different, like extending time or stones, etc) from the players that are indeed affected by this problem.

If possible lock this thread since the trolls won't resist bashing any idea that contributes to anyone besides themselves (5-10% of the game population).

Trolls are too obvious now to be funny anymore, /threadfail

And actually, Arcon trolled me with his post 2 minutes before mine, I was pointing out your own post illustrating how retarded you are for me.

edit: Also, bringing up WoW automatically makes everything else you write invalid (as if it wasn't obvious enough lol). Why don't you go play that?

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Originally Posted by Fupafighter

I'm still saying lol sad 2 days later. hahaha. Give up already, only the noobs be struggling with abyssea still. And yes, noob does mean "newer" or "less intelligent", doesn't mean your a bad player, it just means you have a lot to learn, and you have to learn that abyssea has, and always will be abused, and needs no changes, and 98% of the player base would agree.

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Fortunately 98% of the player base keeps out discussions like this one that have no negative impact on them because while they may feel that abyssea is "easy enough", they don't feel the need to blab on internet forums about how they are better than "Noobs".

Sorry that you have a hard time farming lights, but the rest of us just think farming lights is boring. The idea is to make the game less tedious so that it is more about doing fun exciting content, and less about mindless crap like zoning in and out of abyssea, or killing 200 of the same mob every day. QWhen the content was new, the time limit served a purpose. Now it does not. Please be less dense.

Has it not yet dawned on you guys that Abyssea is not the only thing for new players to do? <previous post>

As for farming time....you don't necessarily HAVE to farm Azure kills. I have gone 3+ hours solo on jobs that have NO way to get azure light--WAR, SAM, MNK....

And as for stone stock, in just a weeks time, a new player can stock up on about 8 stones. With those 8 stones, they can get into a group for XP, build up a spot of cuor, purchase 2 abyssites (one directly via Cruor, the other indirectly by a quest item off AH that can be resold afterwards) and then go farm a third and they pick up 13 stones because of the way they revert back to when they first started Abyssea and it recalculates their stock. From that point on, they get 3 stones per day. If they then go after their abyssites to extend time per stone, they can eventually get to the point where they will only be spending 1 or 2 stones each time they go in (48 minutes per stone, if you EVER use more than 2 per session, you are just throwing them away). So, unless they are spamming the crap out of stones all night, they will in all likelyhood be breaking even or gaining stones from that point on. If they do run out...wll, guess what....there's plenty of other stuff to do in this game BESIDES Abyssea.

Stones are really not that big of an issue if you take the time to learn how to use the system properly.

The only thing people really have a reason to complain about is having to leave the zone and come back. While it would be a cool idea, thinking it wouldn't break abyssea more is just ignorant and selfish of people. Yall are just lucky we don't have a daily limit really anymore.

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Originally Posted by Carala

Fantastic & likewise.

While I appreciate the less asshole-like post, there are problem areas. Grauberg, Konschtat, Vunkerl, Misareaux (sometimes), Tahrongi, Attohwa. I've never encountered people exp'ing in these zones. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I just haven't ever seen it.

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Grauberg, Burn parties on those flooting orbs, people also exp party on the bogards.

Konshtat, this is another great place to do a burn party. If you have capped amber and azure can exp indefinitly. You can also make good money off augmented items in the process. These give nice augments if you farm enough.

Vunkerl, the bats say hello, wonderful burn spot, rabbits and caterpillars are for amber.

Misareaux, This zone has constant burn parties. birds, birds, birds, crabs.

Tahrongi, Cat's, bats, bugs, scorps all make good burn parties.

Attohwa, Awesome spot to kill fleas. You're a warrior even a poorly geared warrior can fell cleave these. The mandies are also cool because they aggro.

I don't know where you've been but I've been in parties in these zones multiple times. I already agreed that new players should get a small starting stash of stones. If they used these correctly they too could have 700+ stones in a week if implemented.

There is no need to remove the time in these zones. If people actually read the two solutions I offered and they where implemened none of these arguments would be valid.

There is a reason that you cannot remove the time limit. It's not about being annoying. It's about RMT. There is a quest that allows you to exchange cruor for a ridiculous 1 cruor to 2.6 gil rate. It's called a chocobo blinker. If you go into Abyssea and farm your cruor chain to max and you get 500-600 cruor per kill and then do so for a couple of hours, you get a good amount of cruor and therefore gil, but nothing gamebreaking. Now remove the time limit. RMT. Gil would FLOOD the market and we'd have another major period of inflation. Think about it. SE cannot allow this. They also have no reason to take this nifty way to make gil while making exp out of the game. It's limited by time. Remove the time limit and the RMTs will just lose their minds farming cruor and blinkering it. You could easily with 2 characters kill the mobs required very quickly while having 16 bots get the same cruor apiece. Then blinker all the cruor. Let's be modest and assume 100k cruor per hour. That's 1800k per alliance. They'd do what? 15-16 hours a day. 1800KX18X2.6. How much gil is that for ONE RMT group (or legit linkshell for that matter). The answer is 84million. ONE DAY! ONE. Not allowable.

Can you do this now? Yes. But once you get tired and go to sleep (you have to come back in) I know you could technically just get like 60k minutes and spend the month in Abyssea. SE has a glitch for that and you'll randomly lose status after a certain period of time. There's a reason. GIL.

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Originally Posted by Keelu

There is a reason that you cannot remove the time limit. It's not about being annoying. It's about RMT. There is a quest that allows you to exchange cruor for a ridiculous 1 cruor to 2.6 gil rate. It's called a chocobo blinker. If you go into Abyssea and farm your cruor chain to max and you get 500-600 cruor per kill and then do so for a couple of hours, you get a good amount of cruor and therefore gil, but nothing gamebreaking. Now remove the time limit. RMT. Gil would FLOOD the market and we'd have another major period of inflation. Think about it. SE cannot allow this. They also have no reason to take this nifty way to make gil while making exp out of the game. It's limited by time. Remove the time limit and the RMTs will just lose their minds farming cruor and blinkering it. You could easily with 2 characters kill the mobs required very quickly while having 16 bots get the same cruor apiece. Then blinker all the cruor. Let's be modest and assume 100k cruor per hour. That's 1800k per alliance. They'd do what? 15-16 hours a day. 1800KX18X2.6. How much gil is that for ONE RMT group (or legit linkshell for that matter). The answer is 84million. ONE DAY! ONE. Not allowable.

Can you do this now? Yes. But once you get tired and go to sleep (you have to come back in) I know you could technically just get like 60k minutes and spend the month in Abyssea. SE has a glitch for that and you'll randomly lose status after a certain period of time. There's a reason. GIL.

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The entire value of removing the time restriction is so that we don't have to waste our time leaving to get more time... yet to NPC blinkers you must leave and return to purchase more blinkers due to inventory restrictions. It would really have no effect on RMT. All they have to do now is farm lights at the start, and then they can farm cruor to their heart's content. They then have to buy the blinkers, go to town to sell them, go back to abyssea to buy more, etc... the time restriction does not limit their activity in any way, and it's removal will not make it easier for them. It literally has no effect on their behavior, other than making the farming of lights necessary at the start, which is negligible.

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The entire value of removing the time restriction is so that we don't have to waste our time leaving to get more time... yet to NPC blinkers you must leave and return to purchase more blinkers due to inventory restrictions. It would really have no effect on RMT. All they have to do now is farm lights at the start, and then they can farm cruor to their heart's content. They then have to buy the blinkers, go to town to sell them, go back to abyssea to buy more, etc... the time restriction does not limit their activity in any way, and it's removal will not make it easier for them. It literally has no effect on their behavior, other than making the farming of lights necessary at the start, which is negligible.

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The point isn't farming lights, which is negligible. What you're missing is farming the cruor chain, which is less than negligible. Farm cruor to max and spam. Go to bed. Get back online. Continue farming. At some point they do need to do exactly what you mentioned, and reenter. Light farming isn't the issue. It takes time to refarm lights and build your chain. It's not entirely the only reason, but it's something I would do without the hassle. Saying, "go farm 20000 minutes is easy," but actually getting to that point and then being alive is less easy. It would have an effect on the economy. It would not be quite as drastic at first or maybe even not at all. The point is that ANY effect is unacceptable. Leaving to get the blinkering done is a moot point. That's included no matter what. Change blinkers to any other easier to obtain cruor item, it only changes the conversion rate while saving lots of time. Regardless of how you might minimize the effect by obvious requirements to cash the cruor in, the ability to troll cruor in this manner with no effort would have quite an overall effect. 18 character at 600 cruor/kill overnighting for days. Then take one of them back and forth blinkering this cruor. Yeah that's not different than now. Not at all.

OH and i neglected that the time limit keeps people from just botting key pop mobs and forcing you to either phony up the dough or gold boxing it. It simply leaves too much of a strain on GMs. Too many problems with this idea. They made the time limit to keep big LSes from bullying for long periods of time.

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Originally Posted by Keelu

OH and i neglected that the time limit keeps people from just botting key pop mobs and forcing you to either phony up the dough or gold boxing it. It simply leaves too much of a strain on GMs. Too many problems with this idea. They made the time limit to keep big LSes from bullying for long periods of time.

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RMT have no problems keeping time up while farming cruor 24/7. People can already bot NMs to their hearts content. Big LSs already have no problems with farming time and gold boxes and pop NMs and ??? NMs all at the same time.

In fact now that I think about it, the less exploitative you are, the more this helps you. Big LS, RMT and bots have nothing to gain from this but convenience.

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Originally Posted by Shadowsong

Trolls are too obvious now to be funny anymore, /threadfail

And actually, Arcon trolled me with his post 2 minutes before mine, I was pointing out your own post illustrating how retarded you are for me.

edit: Also, bringing up WoW automatically makes everything else you write invalid (as if it wasn't obvious enough lol). Why don't you go play that?

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Right, because mentioning WoW some how invalidates anything. That goes to show how unintelligent you really are.

"I was pointing out your own post illustrating how retarded you are for me." Awesome English there bro.

Seriously, every thread I've read that you've entered continues to prove how low you are on the genetic chain. I guess that's what happens when you keep it all in the family. Gtfo.

Keelu, we've butted heads in the past, but you are 100% right here. I've been trying to say it for the entirety of this thread and people just respond with nonsense. People would abuse the hell out of this. This change shouldn't and won't happen, so please stop trying to make excuses for this idea. There are too many cons that effect everyone.

"OH, BUT THE HAVES ARE JUST TRYING TO KEEP THE HAVE NOTS DOWN!" Pft.


Btw, it's amazing a moderator hasn't purged this thread. It's full of posts that are nothing but personal attacks masquerading as responses.

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Originally Posted by Keelu

The point isn't farming lights, which is negligible. What you're missing is farming the cruor chain, which is less than negligible. Farm cruor to max and spam. Go to bed. Get back online. Continue farming. At some point they do need to do exactly what you mentioned, and reenter. Light farming isn't the issue. It takes time to refarm lights and build your chain. It's not entirely the only reason, but it's something I would do without the hassle. Saying, "go farm 20000 minutes is easy," but actually getting to that point and then being alive is less easy. It would have an effect on the economy. It would not be quite as drastic at first or maybe even not at all. The point is that ANY effect is unacceptable. Leaving to get the blinkering done is a moot point. That's included no matter what. Change blinkers to any other easier to obtain cruor item, it only changes the conversion rate while saving lots of time. Regardless of how you might minimize the effect by obvious requirements to cash the cruor in, the ability to troll cruor in this manner with no effort would have quite an overall effect. 18 character at 600 cruor/kill overnighting for days. Then take one of them back and forth blinkering this cruor. Yeah that's not different than now. Not at all.

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I don't mean to be rude, but do you have any real understanding of how the RMT are manipulating blinkers? They don't build cruor chains, they sell FC spots and focus on EXP to attract customers who buy into the party, and probably reach 100-150 cruor per kill max. Even using your example and under the current system, let's say they farm lights, they get their 18 characters up to 600 cruor/kill, they farm as long as they want to, and then they buy/sell chocobo blinkers. Think about it for a sec... if you took away the time limit, how would they be effected in that process? They wouldn't have to farm lights... which probably takes them 30 minutes or less. It's not going to effect the economy in the slightest if they don't have to spend that 30 minutes out of a 10 or 20 hour party farming lights. Many of these cleaves are infinite, with mules shouting for members in jeuno as the party lasts hours or even days. The time restriction does absolutely nothing to limit them. I mean... if you don't get it, you don't get it. That's fine and I can accept that. I've always hated RMT as much as the next person. But please don't use it as a crutch for a shitty argument.

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Originally Posted by Tagus

I don't mean to be rude, but do you have any real understanding of how the RMT are manipulating blinkers? They don't build cruor chains, they sell FC spots and focus on EXP to attract customers who buy into the party, and probably reach 100-150 cruor per kill max. Even using your example and under the current system, let's say they farm lights, they get their 18 characters up to 600 cruor/kill, they farm as long as they want to, and then they buy/sell chocobo blinkers. Think about it for a sec... if you took away the time limit, how would they be effected in that process? They wouldn't have to farm lights... which probably takes them 30 minutes or less. It's not going to effect the economy in the slightest if they don't have to spend that 30 minutes out of a 10 or 20 hour party farming lights. Many of these cleaves are infinite, with mules shouting for members in jeuno as the party lasts hours or even days. The time restriction does absolutely nothing to limit them. I mean... if you don't get it, you don't get it. That's fine and I can accept that. I've always hated RMT as much as the next person. But please don't use it as a crutch for a shitty argument.

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Most of the time, they don't even do any of that. They find people that are gullable enough and just flat out take their money and provide no exp/cruor/merit service. Almost every time I've logged on, I see a shout or yell about someone who got jipped from the notorious RMT names.

Even then, if RMT was anywhere near the problem people make them out to be all that would have to be done is lower or eliminate the gil vendor price of cruor bought items. Problem solved in reference to abyssea.

But wait Tagus, that would pose a problem for all the people advocating against removing or increasing time in abyssea areas. We can't be having that now, can we?

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Originally Posted by Carala

Most of the time, they don't even do any of that. They find people that are gullable enough and just flat out take their money and provide no exp/cruor/merit service. Almost every time I've logged on, I see a shout or yell about someone who got jipped from the notorious RMT names.

Even then, if were anywhere near the problem people make them out to be all that would have to be done is lower or eliminate the price of cruor bought items. Problem solved.

But wait Tagus, that would pose a problem for all the people advocating against removing or increasing time in abyssea areas. We can't be having that now, can we?

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Haha... I don't even think those guys are RMT.... just random people taking advantage of others. RMT at least understand that if you screw over your customer base and start scaring people away from joining your parties, your profits will suffer! But seriously... this argument is amazing.

OMG abyssea... if it didn't have a time restriction the RMT would be unstoppable and the economy would colllapse!!!

Really? Because an organized, money-motivated group of RMT isn't capable of farming f'ing lights? Because they would rather run a team of mules back and forth NPC'ing trash than bring a widowmaker WAR and a phalanx RDM out to abyssea on several servers at a time, and make 100k/hr multiplied by 16 people per server? God, I don't even want to figure the math on that one but here we go...

100k/hr X 16 people = 1.6 million gil/ hour total

1.6 million gil/hour X $14/mil = what... 21 bucks an hour per party, per server?

Fucking hell, I barely make that individually, and those bastards make it playing a video game, while living in a 3rd world country.

You're completely right.

An observation: out of the MMO's I've played, somehow it's always been snobby self-absorbed tools & ihavevirtuallyalmostalldayeverydaytoplay FFXI kiddies / unemployed losers who ever have a problem with RMT's or ever default to them beng the sole problem for a shitty player driven economy.

Your average game player, at least everyone who doesn't seem to play this game and others like it as a job, typically in my experience could care less what people do with ingame currency.

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Originally Posted by Carala

You're completely right.

An observation: out of the MMO's I've played, somehow it's always been snobby self-absorbed tools & ihavevirtuallyalmostalldayeverydaytoplay FFXI kiddies / unemployed losers who ever have a problem with RMT's or ever default to them beng the sole problem for a shitty player driven economy.

Your average game player, at least everyone who doesn't seem to play this game and others like it as a job, typically in my experience could care less what people do with ingame currency.

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I don't even know if it's an issue of liking, disliking, or caring about RMT... it's more an issue of understanding how they function within the game, how SE limits them, how they circumvent those limits, and the difference between things that would effect them and things that would not.

So to recap:

1. The time limit does not stop people from exploiting abyssea for cruor / gil by cleaving etc.
2. The time limit does not stop people from Monopolizing Notorious Monsters by botting (does anyone really do this?).
3. The time limit does not stop large groups from Monopolizing timed NMs and ??? NMs while simultaneously farming Cruor and / or KI from gold chests.

As far as I can tell, the time limit is an inconvenience to people who do abyssea casually / infrequently... and absolutely no problem for people who spam abyssea for purposes of exploiting it.

Sure, it does not prevent people from doing it, but it does help bottleneck the nonstop abuse that would occur otherwise. Stop defending this suggestion. You can pretend you're right all you want to, but it only helps your +1 circle jerk. It will not get this suggestion implemented.

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Originally Posted by Sfchakan

Sure, it does not prevent people from doing it, but it does help bottleneck the nonstop abuse that would occur otherwise. Stop defending this suggestion. You can pretend you're right all you want to, but it only helps your +1 circle jerk. It will not get this suggestion implemented.

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Nonstop abuse besides the things listed above that are already happening nonstop?

What makes you think they won't do this? They do this stuff all the time. They add a new system / zone / whatever, and make it artificially hard with timers etc. because they know that hardcore big LSs are going to spam the crap out of it. Then when all the die hard players have moved on to the next cool thing, they decrease the difficulty so that casual players can breeze through it with the same degree of ease that the die hard players did. All this abuse your talking about amounts to nothing. What happens if it takes a week less to build an empyrian weapon? or if Joe gilbuyer farms his own cruor instead of buying gil from the RMT that are already there 24/7? Does tanaka kill a kitten? Does the world end?

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Originally Posted by Keelu

There is a reason that you cannot remove the time limit. It's not about being annoying. It's about RMT.

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The entire argument is flawed. First of all, they would already do that (just as easily), if it was profitable. But blinkers aren't the best way to make gil for them. They'd have to pay for 18 accounts to get anywhere near that number. Right now they only have to pay for 2 accounts to do FC parties all day. And several of them would have to be active, killing different mobs all the time and keeping the party alive, they couldn't just multibox them. One of them would also have to waste cruor on opening chests. And sustaining 100k/hr is also not easily, especially when chains are so easy to fuck up and if just one other party decides to show up and cleave their mobs, they're fucked.

Secondly, flooding the market with gil goes completely against their own interest. If the value of gil decreases, less people will buy their "product", because they get less for their money and they'd have to make even more to compensate for it. They would break their own business. Their best bet is to get the money that's currently in circulation, so again FC is their business of choice.

And finally, as was said before, you can do it now just as easily. The time restriction does not help one bit. You don't have to come back in after you sleep (which wouldn't matter for them anyway, they'd just change shifts, it would only gimp normal players in that regard), because the time you get in 3h alone would be enough to sleep through an entire night without losing your status (I know, because you've done it several times without even trying).

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Originally Posted by Keelu

SE has a glitch for that and you'll randomly lose status after a certain period of time. There's a reason. GIL.

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You believe that a glitch is in place for a purpose? Also, that glitch happens so rarely, it's negligible. I only know about it from reading on these forums, and I've been in Abyssea for days on end before. There's no reason for this glitch, definitely not a useless one as that.

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Originally Posted by Keelu

The point isn't farming lights, which is negligible. What you're missing is farming the cruor chain, which is less than negligible.

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No, it's exactly that, negligible. Getting the cruor chain to max takes 30min, 1h if they suck as much as many RMT do. So that takes 1h out of the 15~16 you mentioned, so it would reduce their gain from 84M to 79M. So you're saying 84M is ok, but 79M isn't? And that's assuming that in that one hour they get no cruor at all, which is also wrong. And assuming they don't do this for 24h/day, which is also wrong. And assuming they don't have to do this even without the limit as well, which is also wrong. Even if there was no time limit at all, they'd have to reenter to sell the cruor to a NPC at some point. The time limit plays absolutely no factor in any of these calculations.

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Originally Posted by Keelu

Yeah that's not different than now. Not at all.

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Couldn't have said it better myself.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

So to recap:

1. The time limit does not stop people from exploiting abyssea for cruor / gil by cleaving etc.
2. The time limit does not stop people from Monopolizing Notorious Monsters by botting (does anyone really do this?).
3. The time limit does not stop large groups from Monopolizing timed NMs and ??? NMs while simultaneously farming Cruor and / or KI from gold chests.

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As I said before, the actual only argument people have against it is "too easy!" which is only valid if you consider it hard now. Everything else is just noise. None of their "arguments" about exploiting anything holds water. There don't need to be any bottlenecks because Abyssea is old. Most people have what they want. And God forbid those darned new players can suddenly camp Berstuk with ease.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tagus

I don't mean to be rude, but do you have any real understanding of how the RMT are manipulating blinkers? They don't build cruor chains, they sell FC spots and focus on EXP to attract customers who buy into the party, and probably reach 100-150 cruor per kill max. Even using your example and under the current system, let's say they farm lights, they get their 18 characters up to 600 cruor/kill, they farm as long as they want to, and then they buy/sell chocobo blinkers. Think about it for a sec... if you took away the time limit, how would they be effected in that process? They wouldn't have to farm lights... which probably takes them 30 minutes or less. It's not going to effect the economy in the slightest if they don't have to spend that 30 minutes out of a 10 or 20 hour party farming lights. Many of these cleaves are infinite, with mules shouting for members in jeuno as the party lasts hours or even days. The time restriction does absolutely nothing to limit them. I mean... if you don't get it, you don't get it. That's fine and I can accept that. I've always hated RMT as much as the next person. But please don't use it as a crutch for a shitty argument.

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azure cruors coffers say "Hi!" so they would still cap azure.

their is no reason to let time limit, but since it's fucking easy to get TE there isn't any reason to remove it either.
Deal with it and let dev works on bigger issues!

I don't find abyssea hard, and am working on finishing my 9th and 10th emps currently. However, I would enjoy it a lot more if when I had 15-20 minutes to play I could go claim X nm then go back to whatever I have to do in my life. I work full time, go to school full time, and have obligations to my family that basically never let me sit at my computer for more than an hour straight. Burning stones isn't an issue, however, I would be more likely to gold box farm than congest NMs if I were able to sit in a corner while unable to play. To the guy who mentioned that people would just build amber, you are still limited by how many KI you can hold. A soloist is going to spend a lot of time getting the wrong KI, but also probably isn't going to be cleaving either. There is no one saying that the content is too hard, and to say removing the restriction would make it easier doesn't serve to eliminate the main point of this argument.

The time limit currently doesn't serve the function of limiting time in abyssea for a majority of the playerbase. The players effected by the time limit are severely hindered while most people would notice no difference with or without the time limit. Choco blinkers is a poor argument for having a time limit, the amount of gil added this way would basically stay the same as now if this were even how RMT made their bread and butter. It isn't, and the way they do make their money isn't effected by time limits.

I do agree it would help to remove some congestion in abyssea if cruor/gil ratio was lowered but I don't know a good way to solve this because people would just move on to selling VW cells anyways.

Let's be honest, anyone who would really be helped a lot by the removal of a time limit probably isn't the type to be knocking emps out by the day. I bypass this limitation by having multiple characters so I don't need to spend any of my extremely limited time shouting for members for anything I want, fortunately I am lucky enough to be in that situation. I don't, however, think that everyone should have to pay for multiple characters to bypass a limitation that essentially doesn't serve any real function at this point. I had a lot more time to play in the past where I could join an exp party and get 10ish hours then go to town farming but that just isn't life anymore and I assume there are others in the same boat.

Plus, if RMT are making this game too hard then maybe you should take your own advice and suck less.

you do realize this is not meant to be a solo game.....just saying. that's really all this would do, is make it easier for the soloer. This <shouldn't> be an issue for people who do these kinds of things with friends, or even PUG for that matter, so long as they are organized.